Women expecting other women to be in charge of all holidays/logistics/family dynamics

[Anonymous]

This drives me crazy and I refuse to participate. My husband is terrible at making plans, so we never see his brother’s family. This upsets my MIL and she keeps telling me to call them. My DH would never call my family to arrange a visit. MIL told me that my SIL “gets her joy” from being a social director, as if that means I should feel the same.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

And let me be clear: you're smug and misogynist. Take it elsewhere. Putting other women down under the guise of honesty is utter garbage.

Do better.

You first.

DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My MIL only includes the women on emails and texts about travel plans, holidays, etc. I said something in passing about it to my husband about how it’s a symptom of the patriarchy and we got in a huge fight that lasted days. I actually don’t even try to fix it anymore and just do EVERYTHING but apparently can’t call a spade a spade. Apparently that was very insulting to him and all of his male relatives.

Time to “lose” the emails. Oops!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This drives me crazy and I refuse to participate. My husband is terrible at making plans, so we never see his brother’s family. This upsets my MIL and she keeps telling me to call them. My DH would never call my family to arrange a visit. MIL told me that my SIL “gets her joy” from being a social director, as if that means I should feel the same.

“Acting as an unpaid secretary doesn’t ‘give me joy.’ If you want your son to call you or his sister to make plans, you’ll have to take that up with him. I won’t entertain further discussion on this matter.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guarantee all the women here, once divorced (despite their charming personalities), will complain that their future romantic prospects don't pick up the check on first dates.

"I know it's a little old-fashioned, but I still prefer when the guy pays!"

Modern feminism: reject patriarchal standards when they don't benefit you, and embrace them when they do.

Shrug. Why not try a me-first attitude? It’s worked for men since the dawn of time. I’ll let you suck on that one for a while.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did none of these older women have jobs? I was born in 1986 and NONE of the women in my family had jobs but I thought we were an anomaly. How exhausting to be trying to work and also be expected to coordinate a gourmet meal (and there better not be any subpar stuffing.)

OP here. I was born in 1979 and plenty of my mom’s peers had jobs, including my mom, but it’s like they still have this ingrained homemaking servitude chip embedded in them. My dad does no holiday prep or planning, no meal prep or planning, doesn’t even buy cards and gifts for his own sister. I can recall holidays where my brother was allowed to stay at the table while my sister and I were expected to clear the table. I don’t get it, I really don’t.

As a homemaker, I truly resent your word choice of “servitude”. It’s exactly this attitude that is the problem. You think making a home for your family, making traditions, being the anchor of your family and a partner to your husband is servitude. Shame on you. I am no more a servant in my family than you are in yours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Indeed! I love my SILs and realized reading this that I use the excuse of reaching out to them about logistics because I want to chatter about other stuff and catch up, but will consciously make it a point to reach out to them to catch up only, and ask my brothers about logistics etc.

That is awesome. I’m sure they will appreciate that. I would love it if my ILs reached out to me for something other than (what boils down to) emotional labor: gift ideas, what size are the kids, what dates can we come visit (plan our visit), can you bring pecan pie and roasted vegetables and wine…

Literally the only thing they ever contact me about that isn’t family dynamics/emotional labor is a “Happy Birthday” text, which is a nice thing to do. But I would love it if my SIL showed any interest in me as a person.

“Emotional labor”. So that’s what we are calling family relationships these days? How miserable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Indeed! I love my SILs and realized reading this that I use the excuse of reaching out to them about logistics because I want to chatter about other stuff and catch up, but will consciously make it a point to reach out to them to catch up only, and ask my brothers about logistics etc.

That is awesome. I’m sure they will appreciate that. I would love it if my ILs reached out to me for something other than (what boils down to) emotional labor: gift ideas, what size are the kids, what dates can we come visit (plan our visit), can you bring pecan pie and roasted vegetables and wine…

Literally the only thing they ever contact me about that isn’t family dynamics/emotional labor is a “Happy Birthday” text, which is a nice thing to do. But I would love it if my SIL showed any interest in me as a person.

“Emotional labor”. So that’s what we are calling family relationships these days? How miserable.

Your reading comprehension is terrible. Try again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Indeed! I love my SILs and realized reading this that I use the excuse of reaching out to them about logistics because I want to chatter about other stuff and catch up, but will consciously make it a point to reach out to them to catch up only, and ask my brothers about logistics etc.

That is awesome. I’m sure they will appreciate that. I would love it if my ILs reached out to me for something other than (what boils down to) emotional labor: gift ideas, what size are the kids, what dates can we come visit (plan our visit), can you bring pecan pie and roasted vegetables and wine…

Literally the only thing they ever contact me about that isn’t family dynamics/emotional labor is a “Happy Birthday” text, which is a nice thing to do. But I would love it if my SIL showed any interest in me as a person.

“Emotional labor”. So that’s what we are calling family relationships these days? How miserable.

Your reading comprehension is terrible. Try again.

I read perfectly right. You feminists don’t like to be called out for your emotional coldness and unavailablity. Since when is knowing your child”s sizes of gift ideas emotional labor? When your a feminist trying to be a mother apparently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Indeed! I love my SILs and realized reading this that I use the excuse of reaching out to them about logistics because I want to chatter about other stuff and catch up, but will consciously make it a point to reach out to them to catch up only, and ask my brothers about logistics etc.

That is awesome. I’m sure they will appreciate that. I would love it if my ILs reached out to me for something other than (what boils down to) emotional labor: gift ideas, what size are the kids, what dates can we come visit (plan our visit), can you bring pecan pie and roasted vegetables and wine…

Literally the only thing they ever contact me about that isn’t family dynamics/emotional labor is a “Happy Birthday” text, which is a nice thing to do. But I would love it if my SIL showed any interest in me as a person.

“Emotional labor”. So that’s what we are calling family relationships these days? How miserable.

Your reading comprehension is terrible. Try again.

I read perfectly right. You feminists don’t like to be called out for your emotional coldness and unavailablity. Since when is knowing your child”s sizes of gift ideas emotional labor? When your a feminist trying to be a mother apparently.

My H does not come up with gift ideas for my family or know the sizes of my siblings’ kids. Why am I expected to do so for his family?

I agree that relationships are important, but I refuse to be the one doing all the work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did none of these older women have jobs? I was born in 1986 and NONE of the women in my family had jobs but I thought we were an anomaly. How exhausting to be trying to work and also be expected to coordinate a gourmet meal (and there better not be any subpar stuffing.)

OP here. I was born in 1979 and plenty of my mom’s peers had jobs, including my mom, but it’s like they still have this ingrained homemaking servitude chip embedded in them. My dad does no holiday prep or planning, no meal prep or planning, doesn’t even buy cards and gifts for his own sister. I can recall holidays where my brother was allowed to stay at the table while my sister and I were expected to clear the table. I don’t get it, I really don’t.

As a homemaker, I truly resent your word choice of “servitude”. It’s exactly this attitude that is the problem. You think making a home for your family, making traditions, being the anchor of your family and a partner to your husband is servitude. Shame on you. I am no more a servant in my family than you are in yours.

I think it's more offensive that women are socialized and expected to do all the ir most the work that goes into making a holiday special (planning, prepping, shopping, cooking and cleaning) and men are socialized to to sit on the couch. My mom was a homemaker for most of my childhood and my dad was a surgeon. He loves cooking and his is a fantastic baker. He always was responsible for washing the dishes and helping clean up after dinner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did none of these older women have jobs? I was born in 1986 and NONE of the women in my family had jobs but I thought we were an anomaly. How exhausting to be trying to work and also be expected to coordinate a gourmet meal (and there better not be any subpar stuffing.)

OP here. I was born in 1979 and plenty of my mom’s peers had jobs, including my mom, but it’s like they still have this ingrained homemaking servitude chip embedded in them. My dad does no holiday prep or planning, no meal prep or planning, doesn’t even buy cards and gifts for his own sister. I can recall holidays where my brother was allowed to stay at the table while my sister and I were expected to clear the table. I don’t get it, I really don’t.

As a homemaker, I truly resent your word choice of “servitude”. It’s exactly this attitude that is the problem. You think making a home for your family, making traditions, being the anchor of your family and a partner to your husband is servitude. Shame on you. I am no more a servant in my family than you are in yours.

I think it's more offensive that women are socialized and expected to do all the ir most the work that goes into making a holiday special (planning, prepping, shopping, cooking and cleaning) and men are socialized to to sit on the couch. My mom was a homemaker for most of my childhood and my dad was a surgeon. He loves cooking and his is a fantastic baker. He always was responsible for washing the dishes and helping clean up after dinner.

+1. Promoting “Homemaking” is asking all your children to help clear the table. Promoting “Servitude” is asking only your daughter to help while your son sits with the menfolk. See the difference?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Indeed! I love my SILs and realized reading this that I use the excuse of reaching out to them about logistics because I want to chatter about other stuff and catch up, but will consciously make it a point to reach out to them to catch up only, and ask my brothers about logistics etc.

That is awesome. I’m sure they will appreciate that. I would love it if my ILs reached out to me for something other than (what boils down to) emotional labor: gift ideas, what size are the kids, what dates can we come visit (plan our visit), can you bring pecan pie and roasted vegetables and wine…

Literally the only thing they ever contact me about that isn’t family dynamics/emotional labor is a “Happy Birthday” text, which is a nice thing to do. But I would love it if my SIL showed any interest in me as a person.

“Emotional labor”. So that’s what we are calling family relationships these days? How miserable.

Your reading comprehension is terrible. Try again.

I read perfectly right. You feminists don’t like to be called out for your emotional coldness and unavailablity. Since when is knowing your child”s sizes of gift ideas emotional labor? When your a feminist trying to be a mother apparently.

I am “emotionally warm” to my husband’s family every time I see them by asking them how they are and about their interests, showing them empathy when they are sad and celebrating with them when they are happy, playing with the kids, etc. I am not “emotionally cold” just because I don’t remind DH that his sister’s birthday is coming up. He and his sister don’t send each other cards or birthday gifts; they call each other. Why would I “override” however my husband chooses to interact with his family? He has their phone numbers and knows important dates. My role is not to decide that he needs to send flowers or whatever; if they choose not to exchange holiday gifts among the adults, who am I to decide they should?

Any parent who doesn’t know their child’s current size of shoes or clothing is pretty clueless. And if they don’t simply walk to the bedroom to glance at the tags to check when asked, they’re pretty lazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The call is coming from inside the house! Stop the madness. WHY are women doing this to other women?

My family is visiting my parents this week. My aunt stopped by and spent the entire time yapping about her daughter-in-law, and “why she hasn’t firmed up Thanksgiving plans yet” and “isn’t texting me back about food plans.” I asked her point blank she wasn’t picking up the phone and calling her son. And she honestly seemed baffled and was like, “How would he know what time dinner is, or what food I should bring? He has a job, he’s working.” I said you know Dana has a full-time job, too, right? She’s busy, too. And my aunt just scoffed and said it was her responsibility.

Like, what is going on that it is 2022 and women still expect that other women will do everything related to holiday dynamics, meals, gifts, family relationships, etc. Why do you not expect your husbands, sons, brothers, etc., to be active and full participants?

Thank you, OP! I am wondering the same thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This nonsense occasionally comes up in my family. My mother asked me what gift I was buying for my MIL’s birthday. I said “nothing” and she should ask my DH because she is his mother. My mother knows very well that I work longer hours and a more demanding job than my DH, yet still expects me to handle all the emotional and physical labor for the family. She is still baffled that my DH is an equal partner and at times the primary parent. Agree with PPs, we need to fight back and drop the rope, otherwise nothing will ever change and our daughters will have the same expectations.

love this!