Ramifications from Religious roots of abortion

[Anonymous]

Op here. I don’t even know why I posted this here. I’m trying to hold a rational conversation on irrational beliefs. I’m talking to people indoctrinated since birth and who’s brain synapses have memories etched, since they were young children most probably, to believe as truth the mystical teachings of the church. I knew the answer the whole time. No matter what, you’ll double down on your beliefs in the face of new evidence. No matter how many women have to carry non-viable kids to term, and potentially suffer catastrophic healthy consequences, that’s okay with you because nothing will contradict your immutable beliefs. The only light on the horizon is that so many people are leaving the church and like Greek mythology, over time your system will be washed away and viewed through academic study only and not as something that has any influence on shaping policy or any influence at all.

Young people don’t go to church. Why would they? It’s absurd. This entire conversation is absurd. You quoting a passage from the Bible to me is absurd if it’s meant to explain anything. It’s absurd because it’s illogical. The fact that the Bible has any impact on what is a health decision is absurd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, please stop talking about my spiritual growth. As I said earlier, it’s extremely condescending.

lol PP!!! the whole point of these Catholic dudes is to condescend about what they know to be right and universally ethical for everyone. They live for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Try again, in English this time.

It was buried in the OP’s post but here is the question:

“How, as someone very religious, that’s who I am sort of seeking input from, how do you square the rise in stories like this with your religion if it tells you abortion is never allowed?”

I am not very religious but I was raised by an extremely doctrinaire Catholic.

The answer is: orthodox Catholics see fertility as a sort of religious sacrament and ritual. the Catholic doctrines on birth control and abortion are based on a notion of life as holy and the moment of conception as a way to see God. This carries over to the entire pregnancy. Conception, pregnancy and birth are worshipped in the story of Mary and the nativity. Fertility is a way to *see God manifest is humans* which is why more effective methods of birth control that use devices and medications are forbidden but the rythym method is OK because it physically “leaves room for God” because the sperm and egg are where they are supposed to be. NONE of this has anything to do with the actual woman or the actual fetus. It’s a religious rite.

This is a good explanation.. but to add history.

In the early Roman Catholic church, abortion was permitted up until ensoulment for male fetuses in the first 40 days of pregnancy and for female fetuses in the first 80-90 days. Not until 1588 did Pope Sixtus V declare all abortion murder. But he also allowed Bishops to give dispensation (permission) for abortions rather freely.

In 1591 the new Pope Gregory XIV Reversed the decision declaring abortion a sin if it took place after ensoulment, which he determined took place 166 days.

Pope Pius IX reversed the decision yet again in 1869 and made abortion after conception a sin.

To put things in perspective Sixtus V was not infallible and he believed adulatory should be punishable with the death penalty. Obviously the men of the church did not give him support on that so it never became Catholic law”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am Catholic. None of these cases are based on What Jesus taught. Abortion was widely recommended by priests and catholic doctors during the potato famine in Ireland because kids weee starving to death and abortion was the right thing to do.

The rules around religion and birth control are made up by men who run the church, it’s not based in Jesus’ teachings.

The alt-right Catholics have been bamboozled, lied to, brain washed. This brain washing began centuries ago but our current situation started in the Ronald Regan era, it’s very well documented. Regan made abortion legal in California but when he ran for office a strategist explain if he ran on religious rights they could win. SO they picked prayer and abortion and the brain washing began.

I feel a little sorry for the Catholics being duped, my mom being one of them. She believes Democrats want abortions up to 6 weeks after a baby is born. You can even find video of Luz Cheney saying Democrats kill babies after they are born… and people believe it, it’s sad and pathetic.

Sounds like you are being duped by remaining part of the largest proudly anti-choice organization in the world. Your catechism states without a doubt that any and all abortion is a mortal sin. You can do all sorts of mental gymnastics to convince yourself otherwise but you yourself said you are member. Many of us would see you as sad and pathetic.

You don’t seem deeply educated in the history of Catholicism. It’s not a cult, you can question the insane changes the men of the church make especially when it’s not rooted in Jesus’s teachings,

I’m sorry you think Catholicism is a cult.

Please explain to me how one can question what the Vatican says.

Look up infallibility… the Pope is only infallible when he ex cathedra aka “speaks from the chair”, which he rarely does. Vatican 2 isn’t even infallible.

The Pope is one source of information… God who should speak to you through your soul or the Holy Spirit is your only real guide. Men are sinners, they are not perfect and power is a dangerous aphrodisiac. Don’t let them have power over you.

Sit quietly with your soul (not your ego) what does it say … follow that

If Vatican 2 isn’t infallible, then does that mean that if my soul tells me that the Jews killed Jesus, then it’s ok if that’s what I believe?

Has your soul told you that it was it your ego? Or was it your brain?

what if my soul tells me that women should be able to control their own bodies?

Did your soul tell you that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am Catholic. None of these cases are based on What Jesus taught. Abortion was widely recommended by priests and catholic doctors during the potato famine in Ireland because kids weee starving to death and abortion was the right thing to do.

The rules around religion and birth control are made up by men who run the church, it’s not based in Jesus’ teachings.

The alt-right Catholics have been bamboozled, lied to, brain washed. This brain washing began centuries ago but our current situation started in the Ronald Regan era, it’s very well documented. Regan made abortion legal in California but when he ran for office a strategist explain if he ran on religious rights they could win. SO they picked prayer and abortion and the brain washing began.

I feel a little sorry for the Catholics being duped, my mom being one of them. She believes Democrats want abortions up to 6 weeks after a baby is born. You can even find video of Luz Cheney saying Democrats kill babies after they are born… and people believe it, it’s sad and pathetic.

Sounds like you are being duped by remaining part of the largest proudly anti-choice organization in the world. Your catechism states without a doubt that any and all abortion is a mortal sin. You can do all sorts of mental gymnastics to convince yourself otherwise but you yourself said you are member. Many of us would see you as sad and pathetic.

You don’t seem deeply educated in the history of Catholicism. It’s not a cult, you can question the insane changes the men of the church make especially when it’s not rooted in Jesus’s teachings,

I’m sorry you think Catholicism is a cult.

Please explain to me how one can question what the Vatican says.

Look up infallibility… the Pope is only infallible when he ex cathedra aka “speaks from the chair”, which he rarely does. Vatican 2 isn’t even infallible.

The Pope is one source of information… God who should speak to you through your soul or the Holy Spirit is your only real guide. Men are sinners, they are not perfect and power is a dangerous aphrodisiac. Don’t let them have power over you.

Sit quietly with your soul (not your ego) what does it say … follow that

If Vatican 2 isn’t infallible, then does that mean that if my soul tells me that the Jews killed Jesus, then it’s ok if that’s what I believe?

Has your soul told you that it was it your ego? Or was it your brain?

what if my soul tells me that women should be able to control their own bodies?

Did your soul tell you that?

In fact, yes. At the core of my being, I feel the truth that women controlling fertility is necessary for the well-being of women and children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am Catholic. None of these cases are based on What Jesus taught. Abortion was widely recommended by priests and catholic doctors during the potato famine in Ireland because kids weee starving to death and abortion was the right thing to do.

The rules around religion and birth control are made up by men who run the church, it’s not based in Jesus’ teachings.

The alt-right Catholics have been bamboozled, lied to, brain washed. This brain washing began centuries ago but our current situation started in the Ronald Regan era, it’s very well documented. Regan made abortion legal in California but when he ran for office a strategist explain if he ran on religious rights they could win. SO they picked prayer and abortion and the brain washing began.

I feel a little sorry for the Catholics being duped, my mom being one of them. She believes Democrats want abortions up to 6 weeks after a baby is born. You can even find video of Luz Cheney saying Democrats kill babies after they are born… and people believe it, it’s sad and pathetic.

Sounds like you are being duped by remaining part of the largest proudly anti-choice organization in the world. Your catechism states without a doubt that any and all abortion is a mortal sin. You can do all sorts of mental gymnastics to convince yourself otherwise but you yourself said you are member. Many of us would see you as sad and pathetic.

You don’t seem deeply educated in the history of Catholicism. It’s not a cult, you can question the insane changes the men of the church make especially when it’s not rooted in Jesus’s teachings,

I’m sorry you think Catholicism is a cult.

Please explain to me how one can question what the Vatican says.

Look up infallibility… the Pope is only infallible when he ex cathedra aka “speaks from the chair”, which he rarely does. Vatican 2 isn’t even infallible.

The Pope is one source of information… God who should speak to you through your soul or the Holy Spirit is your only real guide. Men are sinners, they are not perfect and power is a dangerous aphrodisiac. Don’t let them have power over you.

Sit quietly with your soul (not your ego) what does it say … follow that

If Vatican 2 isn’t infallible, then does that mean that if my soul tells me that the Jews killed Jesus, then it’s ok if that’s what I believe?

Has your soul told you that it was it your ego? Or was it your brain?

what if my soul tells me that women should be able to control their own bodies?

Did your soul tell you that?

In fact, yes. At the core of my being, I feel the truth that women controlling fertility is necessary for the well-being of women and children.

Same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am Catholic. None of these cases are based on What Jesus taught. Abortion was widely recommended by priests and catholic doctors during the potato famine in Ireland because kids weee starving to death and abortion was the right thing to do.

The rules around religion and birth control are made up by men who run the church, it’s not based in Jesus’ teachings.

The alt-right Catholics have been bamboozled, lied to, brain washed. This brain washing began centuries ago but our current situation started in the Ronald Regan era, it’s very well documented. Regan made abortion legal in California but when he ran for office a strategist explain if he ran on religious rights they could win. SO they picked prayer and abortion and the brain washing began.

I feel a little sorry for the Catholics being duped, my mom being one of them. She believes Democrats want abortions up to 6 weeks after a baby is born. You can even find video of Luz Cheney saying Democrats kill babies after they are born… and people believe it, it’s sad and pathetic.

Sounds like you are being duped by remaining part of the largest proudly anti-choice organization in the world. Your catechism states without a doubt that any and all abortion is a mortal sin. You can do all sorts of mental gymnastics to convince yourself otherwise but you yourself said you are member. Many of us would see you as sad and pathetic.

You don’t seem deeply educated in the history of Catholicism. It’s not a cult, you can question the insane changes the men of the church make especially when it’s not rooted in Jesus’s teachings,

I’m sorry you think Catholicism is a cult.

Please explain to me how one can question what the Vatican says.

Look up infallibility… the Pope is only infallible when he ex cathedra aka “speaks from the chair”, which he rarely does. Vatican 2 isn’t even infallible.

The Pope is one source of information… God who should speak to you through your soul or the Holy Spirit is your only real guide. Men are sinners, they are not perfect and power is a dangerous aphrodisiac. Don’t let them have power over you.

Sit quietly with your soul (not your ego) what does it say … follow that

If Vatican 2 isn’t infallible, then does that mean that if my soul tells me that the Jews killed Jesus, then it’s ok if that’s what I believe?

Has your soul told you that it was it your ego? Or was it your brain?

what if my soul tells me that women should be able to control their own bodies?

Did your soul tell you that?

In fact, yes. At the core of my being, I feel the truth that women controlling fertility is necessary for the well-being of women and children.

Same.

A little nuanced but I believe that it is my spiritual duty to avail to women the ability to control their own fertility and if we have not give every woman the tools and resources to do so we have failed to do gods work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am Catholic. None of these cases are based on What Jesus taught. Abortion was widely recommended by priests and catholic doctors during the potato famine in Ireland because kids weee starving to death and abortion was the right thing to do.

The rules around religion and birth control are made up by men who run the church, it’s not based in Jesus’ teachings.

The alt-right Catholics have been bamboozled, lied to, brain washed. This brain washing began centuries ago but our current situation started in the Ronald Regan era, it’s very well documented. Regan made abortion legal in California but when he ran for office a strategist explain if he ran on religious rights they could win. SO they picked prayer and abortion and the brain washing began.

I feel a little sorry for the Catholics being duped, my mom being one of them. She believes Democrats want abortions up to 6 weeks after a baby is born. You can even find video of Luz Cheney saying Democrats kill babies after they are born… and people believe it, it’s sad and pathetic.

Sounds like you are being duped by remaining part of the largest proudly anti-choice organization in the world. Your catechism states without a doubt that any and all abortion is a mortal sin. You can do all sorts of mental gymnastics to convince yourself otherwise but you yourself said you are member. Many of us would see you as sad and pathetic.

You don’t seem deeply educated in the history of Catholicism. It’s not a cult, you can question the insane changes the men of the church make especially when it’s not rooted in Jesus’s teachings,

I’m sorry you think Catholicism is a cult.

Please explain to me how one can question what the Vatican says.

Look up infallibility… the Pope is only infallible when he ex cathedra aka “speaks from the chair”, which he rarely does. Vatican 2 isn’t even infallible.

The Pope is one source of information… God who should speak to you through your soul or the Holy Spirit is your only real guide. Men are sinners, they are not perfect and power is a dangerous aphrodisiac. Don’t let them have power over you.

Sit quietly with your soul (not your ego) what does it say … follow that

If Vatican 2 isn’t infallible, then does that mean that if my soul tells me that the Jews killed Jesus, then it’s ok if that’s what I believe?

Has your soul told you that it was it your ego? Or was it your brain?

what if my soul tells me that women should be able to control their own bodies?

Did your soul tell you that?

In fact, yes. At the core of my being, I feel the truth that women controlling fertility is necessary for the well-being of women and children.

Same.

A little nuanced but I believe that it is my spiritual duty to avail to women the ability to control their own fertility and if we have not give every woman the tools and resources to do so we have failed to do gods work.

Yes. And our duty is to do everything we can to help parents thrive, so they can help their kids thrive. This includes supporting parents/women in the decision about when (and with whom) they are best able to have children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am Catholic. None of these cases are based on What Jesus taught. Abortion was widely recommended by priests and catholic doctors during the potato famine in Ireland because kids weee starving to death and abortion was the right thing to do.

The rules around religion and birth control are made up by men who run the church, it’s not based in Jesus’ teachings.

The alt-right Catholics have been bamboozled, lied to, brain washed. This brain washing began centuries ago but our current situation started in the Ronald Regan era, it’s very well documented. Regan made abortion legal in California but when he ran for office a strategist explain if he ran on religious rights they could win. SO they picked prayer and abortion and the brain washing began.

I feel a little sorry for the Catholics being duped, my mom being one of them. She believes Democrats want abortions up to 6 weeks after a baby is born. You can even find video of Luz Cheney saying Democrats kill babies after they are born… and people believe it, it’s sad and pathetic.

Sounds like you are being duped by remaining part of the largest proudly anti-choice organization in the world. Your catechism states without a doubt that any and all abortion is a mortal sin. You can do all sorts of mental gymnastics to convince yourself otherwise but you yourself said you are member. Many of us would see you as sad and pathetic.

You don’t seem deeply educated in the history of Catholicism. It’s not a cult, you can question the insane changes the men of the church make especially when it’s not rooted in Jesus’s teachings,

I’m sorry you think Catholicism is a cult.

Please explain to me how one can question what the Vatican says.

Look up infallibility… the Pope is only infallible when he ex cathedra aka “speaks from the chair”, which he rarely does. Vatican 2 isn’t even infallible.

The Pope is one source of information… God who should speak to you through your soul or the Holy Spirit is your only real guide. Men are sinners, they are not perfect and power is a dangerous aphrodisiac. Don’t let them have power over you.

Sit quietly with your soul (not your ego) what does it say … follow that

If Vatican 2 isn’t infallible, then does that mean that if my soul tells me that the Jews killed Jesus, then it’s ok if that’s what I believe?

Has your soul told you that it was it your ego? Or was it your brain?

what if my soul tells me that women should be able to control their own bodies?

Did your soul tell you that?

In fact, yes. At the core of my being, I feel the truth that women controlling fertility is necessary for the well-being of women and children.

You mean, controlling their own fertility?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am Catholic. None of these cases are based on What Jesus taught. Abortion was widely recommended by priests and catholic doctors during the potato famine in Ireland because kids weee starving to death and abortion was the right thing to do.

The rules around religion and birth control are made up by men who run the church, it’s not based in Jesus’ teachings.

The alt-right Catholics have been bamboozled, lied to, brain washed. This brain washing began centuries ago but our current situation started in the Ronald Regan era, it’s very well documented. Regan made abortion legal in California but when he ran for office a strategist explain if he ran on religious rights they could win. SO they picked prayer and abortion and the brain washing began.

I feel a little sorry for the Catholics being duped, my mom being one of them. She believes Democrats want abortions up to 6 weeks after a baby is born. You can even find video of Luz Cheney saying Democrats kill babies after they are born… and people believe it, it’s sad and pathetic.

Sounds like you are being duped by remaining part of the largest proudly anti-choice organization in the world. Your catechism states without a doubt that any and all abortion is a mortal sin. You can do all sorts of mental gymnastics to convince yourself otherwise but you yourself said you are member. Many of us would see you as sad and pathetic.

You don’t seem deeply educated in the history of Catholicism. It’s not a cult, you can question the insane changes the men of the church make especially when it’s not rooted in Jesus’s teachings,

I’m sorry you think Catholicism is a cult.

Please explain to me how one can question what the Vatican says.

Look up infallibility… the Pope is only infallible when he ex cathedra aka “speaks from the chair”, which he rarely does. Vatican 2 isn’t even infallible.

The Pope is one source of information… God who should speak to you through your soul or the Holy Spirit is your only real guide. Men are sinners, they are not perfect and power is a dangerous aphrodisiac. Don’t let them have power over you.

Sit quietly with your soul (not your ego) what does it say … follow that

If Vatican 2 isn’t infallible, then does that mean that if my soul tells me that the Jews killed Jesus, then it’s ok if that’s what I believe?

Has your soul told you that it was it your ego? Or was it your brain?

what if my soul tells me that women should be able to control their own bodies?

Did your soul tell you that?

In fact, yes. At the core of my being, I feel the truth that women controlling fertility is necessary for the well-being of women and children.

You mean, controlling their own fertility?

lol yes, although I think just having women control fertility instead of celibate men would be a start!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am Catholic. None of these cases are based on What Jesus taught. Abortion was widely recommended by priests and catholic doctors during the potato famine in Ireland because kids weee starving to death and abortion was the right thing to do.

The rules around religion and birth control are made up by men who run the church, it’s not based in Jesus’ teachings.

The alt-right Catholics have been bamboozled, lied to, brain washed. This brain washing began centuries ago but our current situation started in the Ronald Regan era, it’s very well documented. Regan made abortion legal in California but when he ran for office a strategist explain if he ran on religious rights they could win. SO they picked prayer and abortion and the brain washing began.

I feel a little sorry for the Catholics being duped, my mom being one of them. She believes Democrats want abortions up to 6 weeks after a baby is born. You can even find video of Luz Cheney saying Democrats kill babies after they are born… and people believe it, it’s sad and pathetic.

Sounds like you are being duped by remaining part of the largest proudly anti-choice organization in the world. Your catechism states without a doubt that any and all abortion is a mortal sin. You can do all sorts of mental gymnastics to convince yourself otherwise but you yourself said you are member. Many of us would see you as sad and pathetic.

You don’t seem deeply educated in the history of Catholicism. It’s not a cult, you can question the insane changes the men of the church make especially when it’s not rooted in Jesus’s teachings,

I’m sorry you think Catholicism is a cult.

Please explain to me how one can question what the Vatican says.

Look up infallibility… the Pope is only infallible when he ex cathedra aka “speaks from the chair”, which he rarely does. Vatican 2 isn’t even infallible.

The Pope is one source of information… God who should speak to you through your soul or the Holy Spirit is your only real guide. Men are sinners, they are not perfect and power is a dangerous aphrodisiac. Don’t let them have power over you.

Sit quietly with your soul (not your ego) what does it say … follow that

If Vatican 2 isn’t infallible, then does that mean that if my soul tells me that the Jews killed Jesus, then it’s ok if that’s what I believe?

Has your soul told you that it was it your ego? Or was it your brain?

what if my soul tells me that women should be able to control their own bodies?

Did your soul tell you that?

In fact, yes. At the core of my being, I feel the truth that women controlling fertility is necessary for the well-being of women and children.

Same.

A little nuanced but I believe that it is my spiritual duty to avail to women the ability to control their own fertility and if we have not give every woman the tools and resources to do so we have failed to do gods work.

Yes. And our duty is to do everything we can to help parents thrive, so they can help their kids thrive. This includes supporting parents/women in the decision about when (and with whom) they are best able to have children.

In addition, I think we have failed every woman (and man) who is forced to have a still born (aka late term abortion) because the fetus did not develop normally. I also wonder why the religions right does not care about miscarriages, aren't those dead babies too? I can't believe that we allow so many women who would love to have a baby suffer miscarriages and stillborn births. Why don't they pledge tons of $ toward research to stop those "deaths".

Also, I think it's insane that we have not developed a better way to prevent unwanted pregnancies. Current contraceptives are not working.

I believe that all these failures are against my religious beliefs and until we serve our community better we are not serving god.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. I don’t even know why I posted this here. I’m trying to hold a rational conversation on irrational beliefs. I’m talking to people indoctrinated since birth and who’s brain synapses have memories etched, since they were young children most probably, to believe as truth the mystical teachings of the church. I knew the answer the whole time. No matter what, you’ll double down on your beliefs in the face of new evidence. No matter how many women have to carry non-viable kids to term, and potentially suffer catastrophic healthy consequences, that’s okay with you because nothing will contradict your immutable beliefs. The only light on the horizon is that so many people are leaving the church and like Greek mythology, over time your system will be washed away and viewed through academic study only and not as something that has any influence on shaping policy or any influence at all.

Young people don’t go to church. Why would they? It’s absurd. This entire conversation is absurd. You quoting a passage from the Bible to me is absurd if it’s meant to explain anything. It’s absurd because it’s illogical. The fact that the Bible has any impact on what is a health decision is absurd.

OP, you can’t reason a person out of a position he did not reason himself into in the first place. Faith is the opposite of reason. Forced birthers see the bodies and are convinced it’s because God’s will for them to suffer because they sinned (and they would never be so cursed because they do x, y, and z, or if they are it’s not punishment but just God’s test for them).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. I don’t even know why I posted this here. I’m trying to hold a rational conversation on irrational beliefs. I’m talking to people indoctrinated since birth and who’s brain synapses have memories etched, since they were young children most probably, to believe as truth the mystical teachings of the church. I knew the answer the whole time. No matter what, you’ll double down on your beliefs in the face of new evidence. No matter how many women have to carry non-viable kids to term, and potentially suffer catastrophic healthy consequences, that’s okay with you because nothing will contradict your immutable beliefs. The only light on the horizon is that so many people are leaving the church and like Greek mythology, over time your system will be washed away and viewed through academic study only and not as something that has any influence on shaping policy or any influence at all.

Young people don’t go to church. Why would they? It’s absurd. This entire conversation is absurd. You quoting a passage from the Bible to me is absurd if it’s meant to explain anything. It’s absurd because it’s illogical. The fact that the Bible has any impact on what is a health decision is absurd.

OP, you can’t reason a person out of a position he did not reason himself into in the first place. Faith is the opposite of reason. Forced birthers see the bodies and are convinced it’s because God’s will for them to suffer because they sinned (and they would never be so cursed because they do x, y, and z, or if they are it’s not punishment but just God’s test for them).

Yes, punishing women is a twisted religious objective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it's in the Bible that abortion is legal up to "quickening" -- when you can feel the baby move. Pretty sure.

No. In the Bible abortion is permitted ant time before birth. In this respect the Bible is too liberal for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. I don’t even know why I posted this here. I’m trying to hold a rational conversation on irrational beliefs. I’m talking to people indoctrinated since birth and who’s brain synapses have memories etched, since they were young children most probably, to believe as truth the mystical teachings of the church. I knew the answer the whole time. No matter what, you’ll double down on your beliefs in the face of new evidence. No matter how many women have to carry non-viable kids to term, and potentially suffer catastrophic healthy consequences, that’s okay with you because nothing will contradict your immutable beliefs. The only light on the horizon is that so many people are leaving the church and like Greek mythology, over time your system will be washed away and viewed through academic study only and not as something that has any influence on shaping policy or any influence at all.

Young people don’t go to church. Why would they? It’s absurd. This entire conversation is absurd. You quoting a passage from the Bible to me is absurd if it’s meant to explain anything. It’s absurd because it’s illogical. The fact that the Bible has any impact on what is a health decision is absurd.

OP, you can’t reason a person out of a position he did not reason himself into in the first place. Faith is the opposite of reason. Forced birthers see the bodies and are convinced it’s because God’s will for them to suffer because they sinned (and they would never be so cursed because they do x, y, and z, or if they are it’s not punishment but just God’s test for them).

While I’m “pro choice” (I think both the terms “pro choice” and “pro life” are stupid), I think this description is overly anti Christian. “Pro life” Christians don’t oppose abortion because they want to punish women. They oppose abortion because they believe that life begins at conception. At least that’s what they think they believe. Of course their are problems with this. One is their (for the most part) lack of concern with babies after birth and secondly, the proposition that human life begins at conception contradicts the Bible (when read in the original Hebrew).
Yes, punishing women is a twisted religious objective.