S/O Can we talk about how bad Lin-Manuel Miranda's music is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t understand why he added Lin to his name. His music is fine. I can’t get Bruno out of my head.

He didn’t add it, it’s his given name. I was just reading his Wikipedia page and holy cow, I had no idea how many awards and honors this man has won, not only for his theatre productions but also for his acting!

His acting is entirely unremarkable. Nearly everyone else in his shows is a better actor than he is.

I agree with this. Saying his music is "bad" is just nonsense though

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t understand why he added Lin to his name. His music is fine. I can’t get Bruno out of my head.

He didn’t add it, it’s his given name. I was just reading his Wikipedia page and holy cow, I had no idea how many awards and honors this man has won, not only for his theatre productions but also for his acting!

His acting is entirely unremarkable. Nearly everyone else in his shows is a better actor than he is.

I agree with this. Saying his music is "bad" is just nonsense though

I also agree he is a mediocre actor

- loves Moana, Encanto and Hamilton

[Anonymous]

If not really liking Hamilton is “being a fascist” then “Credere, obbedire, combattere!” and glory to the Fatherland!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I totally get the adulation for the guy - he's obviously a brilliant creative mind. But I really dislike the songs he writes - there is no real melody, or rhythm - it's just the same free-flowing sing/speaking with his rapping thrown in. They are all the same! The movie about the singing kickachoo monkey thing, Encanto (which my kids have on repeat on Spotify). Even Moana only had one or two good songs - the rest were...the same types of songs that I can't get into. Is this only me?

It’s a form of rap and beats.
But at least Disney puts real singers in it and some melody.

[Anonymous]

He also heavily coached Amanda Gorman on her poetry, speaking delivery, and rhythm. Including the one she performed at the Biden inauguration ceremony.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, thank you for writing this and taking the heat! I have felt this way for a long time but this is not an opinion you're allowed to have in polite society right now. I'm not sure why.

It's strange because I like all kinds of things that other people don't like -- super niche, nerdy science fiction; poetry; opera; modern dance; detailed British nature paintings. Like just random art that speaks very specifically to my aesthetic and topical interests. I have zero problems when people say they don't like these things. I don't expect them to.

I think that's the difference. A lot of people who love LMM get mad if you say it's not their thing because their is an expectation that everyone will like it. That's a weird expectation. Even the more popular stuff I like (Lizzo, Game of Thrones, Amy Winehouse, Louise Penny novels), I know people who don't like them. And it's fine! They like other things.

LMM's talk-singing thing, and specifically the way a lot of his songs are designed to feel like you are being buried in words and feelings, is not my thing. I believe it has to do with aesthetic, I really appreciate more sparse musical aesthetics, I like feeling carried by music not hit by it. Which yes, means I'm heavily invested in melody and beat, whereas LMM is more focused on the lyrics themselves, musical punctuation, and a kind of excess. That's fine. Not my thing.

It's not a personal insult to YOU if I don't like the thing you like. Liking things is subjective, by definition.

Good point. Half the English population cannot process quickly spoken language so the cleverness and meaning of the rapped lyrics, which are ALWAYS storytelling with LMM, are lost. Or require a look up later or a 2nd viewing, etc.

Is that a good thing? Is that “depth” if many people need multiple exposures to get it? My work addict spouse on the spectrum didn’t understand or appreciate Hamilton at all. But he’ll toe the line and say it was fantastic because that’s what the reviews said. That’s too bad, he may have learned some history and Miranda’s/author’s take on some historic figures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hamilton is the sort of musical that Rent was. Pure heaven for the NPR Set because it was so "vital" and "urgent" and "timely". Taken right from the front pages of the Times! But objectively, when viewed from afar, the music was largely pedestrian and mediocre. I mean, just listen to some Sondheim and compare them. It's almost embarrassing.

Have never liked Sondheim's music. Sorry. Maybe a few tunes, but mostly not. Not my cup of tea. And I'm a huge fan of musicals.

That's the way taste works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone posted in an old Hamilton thread that his bars and cadence sound like 2 Skinnee J’s (for you East Coasters of a certain age) and I totally agree.

Love 2 Skinnee Js, love LMM, and totally get the connection.

Do not love falling into the category of "East Coasters of a certain age."

Ong, very true.

He lifted 2 Skinnee J for the basic foundation of most of his beats and raps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Succession said it best:

Tom: “Oh, don’t worry Greg. This is a nice, safe space where you don’t have to pretend to like ‘Hamilton.'”
Greg: “…I like ‘Hamilton.'”
Tom: “Sure you do. We all do.”

My DH and I fell OUT at this line. I don't normally identify with the characters on Succession but that was a real point of recognition.

I like Hamilton, too. We all do.

It's fine to not like Hamilton, but the reason none of the people at the far-right meeting of greedy super-capitalists and fascists like it is bc they are far-right super-capitalists and fascists. Greg actually likes Hamilton bc he is not that (I think Tom actually does too and is just trying to fit in, but anyway). The joke is not that normal ppl pretend to like Hamilton, it's that normal people like it and racist right-wingers pretend to when they are around normals.

Do historians like it or only left wing activist historians?

[Anonymous]

His dad’s political connections have really tokenized all of his work, I think. He’s definitely talented. I feel sad watching him hustle for the Dems in every single thing he does. Would be neat if his work could just be his.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, thank you for writing this and taking the heat! I have felt this way for a long time but this is not an opinion you're allowed to have in polite society right now. I'm not sure why.

It's strange because I like all kinds of things that other people don't like -- super niche, nerdy science fiction; poetry; opera; modern dance; detailed British nature paintings. Like just random art that speaks very specifically to my aesthetic and topical interests. I have zero problems when people say they don't like these things. I don't expect them to.

I think that's the difference. A lot of people who love LMM get mad if you say it's not their thing because their is an expectation that everyone will like it. That's a weird expectation. Even the more popular stuff I like (Lizzo, Game of Thrones, Amy Winehouse, Louise Penny novels), I know people who don't like them. And it's fine! They like other things.

LMM's talk-singing thing, and specifically the way a lot of his songs are designed to feel like you are being buried in words and feelings, is not my thing. I believe it has to do with aesthetic, I really appreciate more sparse musical aesthetics, I like feeling carried by music not hit by it. Which yes, means I'm heavily invested in melody and beat, whereas LMM is more focused on the lyrics themselves, musical punctuation, and a kind of excess. That's fine. Not my thing.

It's not a personal insult to YOU if I don't like the thing you like. Liking things is subjective, by definition.

Good point. Half the English population cannot process quickly spoken language so the cleverness and meaning of the rapped lyrics, which are ALWAYS storytelling with LMM, are lost. Or require a look up later or a 2nd viewing, etc.

Is that a good thing? Is that “depth” if many people need multiple exposures to get it? My work addict spouse on the spectrum didn’t understand or appreciate Hamilton at all. But he’ll toe the line and say it was fantastic because that’s what the reviews said. That’s too bad, he may have learned some history and Miranda’s/author’s take on some historic figures.

1776 was the superior musical about the nation's founding. The history is better, it's funnier, and it confronts the slavery issue head-on, rather than using actors of color to obfuscate the founders' sins.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No rhythm? How do you define rhythm?

This is why I think OP is narcissistic, its like objectively silly to say he has no rhythms or melodies. We Don't Talk About Bruno, love it or hate it, is an INCREDIBLY complex song rhymically and melodically, from a technical musical standpoint. Like it, don't like it, whatever, that's personal. But that song takes like 5 distinct narrative verses and then layers them for a united harmonious crescendo (and that is like, not a metaphorical crescendo to be dramatic but what crescendo actually means when you are composing a song).

Interesting take.I think you’re right, We don’t talk about Bruno is brilliant from a technical point of view - multiple voices entering and exiting, layering etc....crescendoing.... but it doesn’t move me emotionally at all. Not the way Joni Mitchell’s Both sides now or River, or even Frozen’s Let it go.
It’s the same with rap - it’s cool but I don’t feel anything.

So I hear you OP! I also didn’t love Hamilton. Saw it once and that was enough. But I have seen Wicked 5 times now in London, NYC, Toronto. And I would see it again.

It’s a type of cannon with rounds in the same key.
Also an example of information overload. No child get even 25% of the info and facts and background told in that fastly spoken song.

Anyhow, Luisa’s song is THE best. Any eldest child, first Gen immigrant or Doing It All Mother can relate, big time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, thank you for writing this and taking the heat! I have felt this way for a long time but this is not an opinion you're allowed to have in polite society right now. I'm not sure why.

It's strange because I like all kinds of things that other people don't like -- super niche, nerdy science fiction; poetry; opera; modern dance; detailed British nature paintings. Like just random art that speaks very specifically to my aesthetic and topical interests. I have zero problems when people say they don't like these things. I don't expect them to.

I think that's the difference. A lot of people who love LMM get mad if you say it's not their thing because their is an expectation that everyone will like it. That's a weird expectation. Even the more popular stuff I like (Lizzo, Game of Thrones, Amy Winehouse, Louise Penny novels), I know people who don't like them. And it's fine! They like other things.

LMM's talk-singing thing, and specifically the way a lot of his songs are designed to feel like you are being buried in words and feelings, is not my thing. I believe it has to do with aesthetic, I really appreciate more sparse musical aesthetics, I like feeling carried by music not hit by it. Which yes, means I'm heavily invested in melody and beat, whereas LMM is more focused on the lyrics themselves, musical punctuation, and a kind of excess. That's fine. Not my thing.

It's not a personal insult to YOU if I don't like the thing you like. Liking things is subjective, by definition.

Good point. Half the English population cannot process quickly spoken language so the cleverness and meaning of the rapped lyrics, which are ALWAYS storytelling with LMM, are lost. Or require a look up later or a 2nd viewing, etc.

Is that a good thing? Is that “depth” if many people need multiple exposures to get it? My work addict spouse on the spectrum didn’t understand or appreciate Hamilton at all. But he’ll toe the line and say it was fantastic because that’s what the reviews said. That’s too bad, he may have learned some history and Miranda’s/author’s take on some historic figures.

1776 was the superior musical about the nation's founding. The history is better, it's funnier, and it confronts the slavery issue head-on, rather than using actors of color to obfuscate the founders' sins.

oh okay there can only be one good musical about the founding fathers. thanks, musical police, for letting us know

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yup. Thought I was the only one. I love some songs and Hamilton as a whole but also recognize basically everything is the same thing. Hated In the Heights. Liked Encanto, but it was very obviously his music and parts sounded exactly like Hamilton. I also dislike his voice and thought it was ridiculous he kept himself cast as Hamilton for so long when his singing voice is just awful.

Agree, all points on point. Very similar songs in Hamilton and Heights. Rapping in rhyme instead of acting or singing in a range to an syncopated melody.

He’s easily identifiable in his rapping cameos. Doesn’t bother me, they are small roles usually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, thank you for writing this and taking the heat! I have felt this way for a long time but this is not an opinion you're allowed to have in polite society right now. I'm not sure why.

It's strange because I like all kinds of things that other people don't like -- super niche, nerdy science fiction; poetry; opera; modern dance; detailed British nature paintings. Like just random art that speaks very specifically to my aesthetic and topical interests. I have zero problems when people say they don't like these things. I don't expect them to.

I think that's the difference. A lot of people who love LMM get mad if you say it's not their thing because their is an expectation that everyone will like it. That's a weird expectation. Even the more popular stuff I like (Lizzo, Game of Thrones, Amy Winehouse, Louise Penny novels), I know people who don't like them. And it's fine! They like other things.

LMM's talk-singing thing, and specifically the way a lot of his songs are designed to feel like you are being buried in words and feelings, is not my thing. I believe it has to do with aesthetic, I really appreciate more sparse musical aesthetics, I like feeling carried by music not hit by it. Which yes, means I'm heavily invested in melody and beat, whereas LMM is more focused on the lyrics themselves, musical punctuation, and a kind of excess. That's fine. Not my thing.

It's not a personal insult to YOU if I don't like the thing you like. Liking things is subjective, by definition.

Good point. Half the English population cannot process quickly spoken language so the cleverness and meaning of the rapped lyrics, which are ALWAYS storytelling with LMM, are lost. Or require a look up later or a 2nd viewing, etc.

Is that a good thing? Is that “depth” if many people need multiple exposures to get it? My work addict spouse on the spectrum didn’t understand or appreciate Hamilton at all. But he’ll toe the line and say it was fantastic because that’s what the reviews said. That’s too bad, he may have learned some history and Miranda’s/author’s take on some historic figures.

1776 was the superior musical about the nation's founding. The history is better, it's funnier, and it confronts the slavery issue head-on, rather than using actors of color to obfuscate the founders' sins.

oh okay there can only be one good musical about the founding fathers. thanks, musical police, for letting us know

PP - I didn't say Hamilton was bad. I just think 1776 was better, and its strongest points happen to be Hamilton's weakest.
Hamilton was fine. It becomes better when you realize that Burr is the hero.