S/O Can we talk about how bad Lin-Manuel Miranda's music is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh man, I had forgotten about how completely deranged this thread was.

But relatedly, my daughter has been obsessed with Moana the last few months and I vacillate between appreciating LMM and hating him with the heat of 1000 suns because on the on hand, Shiny is really funny and fun, and on the other hand if I hear “I am Moana!!” one more time I will actually die.

You're Welcome!

The Moana soundtrack - music and lyrics - is 100% genius. You may not personally enjoy it but it’s brilliant.

It is a great soundtrack. But as someone who has very mixed feelings about LMM, I would note that Miranda didn't create that soundtrack on his own. At all. He worked with Mark Mancina, who is a master composer, and a Tokelauan songwriter named Opetaia Foa'i, who also performs on the soundtrack and whose music heavily influenced the tone and feel of the entire soundtrack.

The score was composed by Mancina and all the songs that are heavily influenced and woven-in with the score are almost certainly Mancina-heavy, even where Miranda and Foa'i wrote or co-wrote lyrics. "We Know the Way" was the first song written for the movie and was primarily written by Foa'i with contributions from Miranda (I think Foa'i may have started working on this song before Miranda was even involved with the film, I am not sure). Foa'i obviously wrote all the lyrics not in English, and collaborated with Miranda on most of the most powerful songs on the soundtrack.

Miranda wrote, on his own, the songs anyone could guess he wrote. Obviously "You're Welcome" and "Shiny", both written in LMM's very recognizable style, especially "You're Welcome." He also wrote "I am Moana" and "How Far I'll Go" though both of these lean heavily on elements of Mancina's score and have a little less of that LMM imprint.

Also notable, "Shiny" was written explicitly for Jemaine Clement and is heavily based on a David Bowie tribute he did with Flight of the Conchords. LMM obviously wrote the song and you can tell, but the degree to which Clement's delivery and style is intrinsic to the song itself (as well as heavy Bowie influences) is a huge part of what elevates the song for me. I consider "Shiny" much more successful than "You're Welcome", as a piece of musical theater, and I think it's the collaborative elements that make this true. I have heard the soundtrack to Moana approximately 8 million times, so I feel I have some authority here.

No question LMM is talented but the criticism of him is also valid. He has some personal tics and habits that he often leans too heavily on in his writing, and the results are often catchy but trite (and sometimes incredibly annoying) music. I think his young celebrity has sometimes allowed him more leeway to create on his own, to his own detriment, because he is an artist who benefits enormously from collaboration with other artists. His strike of genius with Hamilton was, itself, a form of collaboration, taking his strengths as a writer and marrying them to someone else's work in order to create something fresh and interesting. But when left entirely to his own devices, I think his output can be very pedestrian, as much of his work for Disney outside Moana has shown (have you seen/heard Vivo? It is actively quite bad). I often think the way his star rose so rapidly with Hamilton has been to the detriment of his artistic development.

It's pretty rare to find smart and thoughtful people like this in the entertainment forum I must say

[Anonymous]

Better than yours.

[Anonymous]

I agree! He’s not terrible, but the music or most of it just doesn’t come off as very pleasant. Also, it feels like filler for Disney run time. I like some songs, but I don’t like most of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh man, I had forgotten about how completely deranged this thread was.

But relatedly, my daughter has been obsessed with Moana the last few months and I vacillate between appreciating LMM and hating him with the heat of 1000 suns because on the on hand, Shiny is really funny and fun, and on the other hand if I hear “I am Moana!!” one more time I will actually die.

You're Welcome!

The Moana soundtrack - music and lyrics - is 100% genius. You may not personally enjoy it but it’s brilliant.

It is a great soundtrack. But as someone who has very mixed feelings about LMM, I would note that Miranda didn't create that soundtrack on his own. At all. He worked with Mark Mancina, who is a master composer, and a Tokelauan songwriter named Opetaia Foa'i, who also performs on the soundtrack and whose music heavily influenced the tone and feel of the entire soundtrack.

The score was composed by Mancina and all the songs that are heavily influenced and woven-in with the score are almost certainly Mancina-heavy, even where Miranda and Foa'i wrote or co-wrote lyrics. "We Know the Way" was the first song written for the movie and was primarily written by Foa'i with contributions from Miranda (I think Foa'i may have started working on this song before Miranda was even involved with the film, I am not sure). Foa'i obviously wrote all the lyrics not in English, and collaborated with Miranda on most of the most powerful songs on the soundtrack.

Miranda wrote, on his own, the songs anyone could guess he wrote. Obviously "You're Welcome" and "Shiny", both written in LMM's very recognizable style, especially "You're Welcome." He also wrote "I am Moana" and "How Far I'll Go" though both of these lean heavily on elements of Mancina's score and have a little less of that LMM imprint.

Also notable, "Shiny" was written explicitly for Jemaine Clement and is heavily based on a David Bowie tribute he did with Flight of the Conchords. LMM obviously wrote the song and you can tell, but the degree to which Clement's delivery and style is intrinsic to the song itself (as well as heavy Bowie influences) is a huge part of what elevates the song for me. I consider "Shiny" much more successful than "You're Welcome", as a piece of musical theater, and I think it's the collaborative elements that make this true. I have heard the soundtrack to Moana approximately 8 million times, so I feel I have some authority here.

No question LMM is talented but the criticism of him is also valid. He has some personal tics and habits that he often leans too heavily on in his writing, and the results are often catchy but trite (and sometimes incredibly annoying) music. I think his young celebrity has sometimes allowed him more leeway to create on his own, to his own detriment, because he is an artist who benefits enormously from collaboration with other artists. His strike of genius with Hamilton was, itself, a form of collaboration, taking his strengths as a writer and marrying them to someone else's work in order to create something fresh and interesting. But when left entirely to his own devices, I think his output can be very pedestrian, as much of his work for Disney outside Moana has shown (have you seen/heard Vivo? It is actively quite bad). I often think the way his star rose so rapidly with Hamilton has been to the detriment of his artistic development.

This person should be a critic. Very thoughtful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh man, I had forgotten about how completely deranged this thread was.

But relatedly, my daughter has been obsessed with Moana the last few months and I vacillate between appreciating LMM and hating him with the heat of 1000 suns because on the on hand, Shiny is really funny and fun, and on the other hand if I hear “I am Moana!!” one more time I will actually die.

You're Welcome!

The Moana soundtrack - music and lyrics - is 100% genius. You may not personally enjoy it but it’s brilliant.

It is a great soundtrack. But as someone who has very mixed feelings about LMM, I would note that Miranda didn't create that soundtrack on his own. At all. He worked with Mark Mancina, who is a master composer, and a Tokelauan songwriter named Opetaia Foa'i, who also performs on the soundtrack and whose music heavily influenced the tone and feel of the entire soundtrack.

The score was composed by Mancina and all the songs that are heavily influenced and woven-in with the score are almost certainly Mancina-heavy, even where Miranda and Foa'i wrote or co-wrote lyrics. "We Know the Way" was the first song written for the movie and was primarily written by Foa'i with contributions from Miranda (I think Foa'i may have started working on this song before Miranda was even involved with the film, I am not sure). Foa'i obviously wrote all the lyrics not in English, and collaborated with Miranda on most of the most powerful songs on the soundtrack.

Miranda wrote, on his own, the songs anyone could guess he wrote. Obviously "You're Welcome" and "Shiny", both written in LMM's very recognizable style, especially "You're Welcome." He also wrote "I am Moana" and "How Far I'll Go" though both of these lean heavily on elements of Mancina's score and have a little less of that LMM imprint.

Also notable, "Shiny" was written explicitly for Jemaine Clement and is heavily based on a David Bowie tribute he did with Flight of the Conchords. LMM obviously wrote the song and you can tell, but the degree to which Clement's delivery and style is intrinsic to the song itself (as well as heavy Bowie influences) is a huge part of what elevates the song for me. I consider "Shiny" much more successful than "You're Welcome", as a piece of musical theater, and I think it's the collaborative elements that make this true. I have heard the soundtrack to Moana approximately 8 million times, so I feel I have some authority here.

No question LMM is talented but the criticism of him is also valid. He has some personal tics and habits that he often leans too heavily on in his writing, and the results are often catchy but trite (and sometimes incredibly annoying) music. I think his young celebrity has sometimes allowed him more leeway to create on his own, to his own detriment, because he is an artist who benefits enormously from collaboration with other artists. His strike of genius with Hamilton was, itself, a form of collaboration, taking his strengths as a writer and marrying them to someone else's work in order to create something fresh and interesting. But when left entirely to his own devices, I think his output can be very pedestrian, as much of his work for Disney outside Moana has shown (have you seen/heard Vivo? It is actively quite bad). I often think the way his star rose so rapidly with Hamilton has been to the detriment of his artistic development.

This person should be a critic. Very thoughtful.

It’s a good time to return to this analysis, as I think his absence is strongly felt in the Moana 2 soundtrack. The rest of the personnel went largely unchanged, but there was something missing in the music.