I’m confused! Trans swimmers Lia Thomas and Iszac Henig went head-to-head in the pool

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s get this out of the way : No transphobic comments so this thread doesn’t get shut down.

Now, I don’t have an issue with trans-athletes competing on their new gendered team as long as the appropriate changes have been made relative to the sports requirements. That said, I don’t understand why there is a trans man is competing on the Yale’s female swim team. How does that make any sense, this person should WANT to be on the male swim team. Doesn’t this make it an open/mixed team.

Here is the article : https://www.outsports.com/trans/2022/1/9/22874147/lia-thomas-iszac-henig-penn-swimming-transgender-athlete-yale-ncaa-ivy

The headline: Thomas showed slower times in her two wins, as Yale transgender swimmer Iszac Henig showed speed, beating Thomas head-to-head.

Henig was apparently with the team before becoming a trans man. He specifically did not do his hormone treatments so as not to be ineligible to compete this last time with his teammates.

Okay, that’s nice and all but I’m sure it causes him great gender dysphasia to stay. I’m sure he doesn’t feel comfortable. Why didn’t he switch teams

I’m sure you’ll be sad to learn that it’s not up to you to dictate what choices other people make regarding their own gender expression.

There are rules, and he followed them. Good for him.

NP you sound ridiculous. Good for him competing on a women’s team.

What I’m trying to say is my understanding is that being misgendered and having to see the incorrect anatomy is very hard for trans ppl. This person had already removed their breasts. I don’t understand why he stayed on the woman’s team if it causes him such distress. Like, I support your transition but he should move to the men’s team. Otherwise, it’s open/mixec team.

You do know that not all people in a group are the same, right? Apparently, it did not cause him great distress, perhaps because he intentionally and knowingly chose to delay hormone treatments in order to remain on the team for the last season. You seem awfully "sure" about how a total stranger feels; perhaps you should instead assume that he considered the emotional effect of delaying those treatments and decided it was worth it.

And the reality is on the merits, he wouldn’t make the men’s team! From what I’ve read, he stated that he didn’t want to miss out on his last year of collegiate swim with his teammates. He put aside his discomfort with competing while wearing a women’s swimsuit because the other option was not competing at all. Lia Thomas didn’t have to deal with that because there is no way a biological man good enough to compete on a collegiate men’s swim team would be unable to make the women’s team even after transitioning.

Amateur sports. So what? Train harder and beat out the other women on the team. I really do not see the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s get this out of the way : No transphobic comments so this thread doesn’t get shut down.

Now, I don’t have an issue with trans-athletes competing on their new gendered team as long as the appropriate changes have been made relative to the sports requirements. That said, I don’t understand why there is a trans man is competing on the Yale’s female swim team. How does that make any sense, this person should WANT to be on the male swim team. Doesn’t this make it an open/mixed team.

Here is the article : https://www.outsports.com/trans/2022/1/9/22874147/lia-thomas-iszac-henig-penn-swimming-transgender-athlete-yale-ncaa-ivy

The headline: Thomas showed slower times in her two wins, as Yale transgender swimmer Iszac Henig showed speed, beating Thomas head-to-head.

Henig was apparently with the team before becoming a trans man. He specifically did not do his hormone treatments so as not to be ineligible to compete this last time with his teammates.

Okay, that’s nice and all but I’m sure it causes him great gender dysphasia to stay. I’m sure he doesn’t feel comfortable. Why didn’t he switch teams

I’m sure you’ll be sad to learn that it’s not up to you to dictate what choices other people make regarding their own gender expression.

There are rules, and he followed them. Good for him.

NP you sound ridiculous. Good for him competing on a women’s team.

What I’m trying to say is my understanding is that being misgendered and having to see the incorrect anatomy is very hard for trans ppl. This person had already removed their breasts. I don’t understand why he stayed on the woman’s team if it causes him such distress. Like, I support your transition but he should move to the men’s team. Otherwise, it’s open/mixec team.

You do know that not all people in a group are the same, right? Apparently, it did not cause him great distress, perhaps because he intentionally and knowingly chose to delay hormone treatments in order to remain on the team for the last season. You seem awfully "sure" about how a total stranger feels; perhaps you should instead assume that he considered the emotional effect of delaying those treatments and decided it was worth it.

And the reality is on the merits, he wouldn’t make the men’s team! From what I’ve read, he stated that he didn’t want to miss out on his last year of collegiate swim with his teammates. He put aside his discomfort with competing while wearing a women’s swimsuit because the other option was not competing at all. Lia Thomas didn’t have to deal with that because there is no way a biological man good enough to compete on a collegiate men’s swim team would be unable to make the women’s team even after transitioning.

Amateur sports. So what? Train harder and beat out the other women on the team. I really do not see the problem.

A person with a male body is breaking records in women’s sports. If you don’t see how this is unfair to the women in the competition, I don’t know what to tell you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s get this out of the way : No transphobic comments so this thread doesn’t get shut down.

Now, I don’t have an issue with trans-athletes competing on their new gendered team as long as the appropriate changes have been made relative to the sports requirements. That said, I don’t understand why there is a trans man is competing on the Yale’s female swim team. How does that make any sense, this person should WANT to be on the male swim team. Doesn’t this make it an open/mixed team.

Here is the article : https://www.outsports.com/trans/2022/1/9/22874147/lia-thomas-iszac-henig-penn-swimming-transgender-athlete-yale-ncaa-ivy

The headline: Thomas showed slower times in her two wins, as Yale transgender swimmer Iszac Henig showed speed, beating Thomas head-to-head.

Henig was apparently with the team before becoming a trans man. He specifically did not do his hormone treatments so as not to be ineligible to compete this last time with his teammates.

Okay, that’s nice and all but I’m sure it causes him great gender dysphasia to stay. I’m sure he doesn’t feel comfortable. Why didn’t he switch teams

I’m sure you’ll be sad to learn that it’s not up to you to dictate what choices other people make regarding their own gender expression.

There are rules, and he followed them. Good for him.

NP you sound ridiculous. Good for him competing on a women’s team.

What I’m trying to say is my understanding is that being misgendered and having to see the incorrect anatomy is very hard for trans ppl. This person had already removed their breasts. I don’t understand why he stayed on the woman’s team if it causes him such distress. Like, I support your transition but he should move to the men’s team. Otherwise, it’s open/mixec team.

You do know that not all people in a group are the same, right? Apparently, it did not cause him great distress, perhaps because he intentionally and knowingly chose to delay hormone treatments in order to remain on the team for the last season. You seem awfully "sure" about how a total stranger feels; perhaps you should instead assume that he considered the emotional effect of delaying those treatments and decided it was worth it.

So transwomen are women, and transmen are women. At least as far as athletic competition goes. Got it.

Op here! This is what I am trying to understand, but pp put it better. I am okay with trans ppl competing in sports and want to be inclusive, but this scenario is actually going against the grain of what I understood trans people to be advocating for. Therefore, I am trying to understand the logical reasoning behind this. If a trans man is OK in female settings then why isn’t that the same for trans woman in men settings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s get this out of the way : No transphobic comments so this thread doesn’t get shut down.

Now, I don’t have an issue with trans-athletes competing on their new gendered team as long as the appropriate changes have been made relative to the sports requirements. That said, I don’t understand why there is a trans man is competing on the Yale’s female swim team. How does that make any sense, this person should WANT to be on the male swim team. Doesn’t this make it an open/mixed team.

Here is the article : https://www.outsports.com/trans/2022/1/9/22874147/lia-thomas-iszac-henig-penn-swimming-transgender-athlete-yale-ncaa-ivy

The headline: Thomas showed slower times in her two wins, as Yale transgender swimmer Iszac Henig showed speed, beating Thomas head-to-head.

Henig was apparently with the team before becoming a trans man. He specifically did not do his hormone treatments so as not to be ineligible to compete this last time with his teammates.

Okay, that’s nice and all but I’m sure it causes him great gender dysphasia to stay. I’m sure he doesn’t feel comfortable. Why didn’t he switch teams

I’m sure you’ll be sad to learn that it’s not up to you to dictate what choices other people make regarding their own gender expression.

There are rules, and he followed them. Good for him.

NP you sound ridiculous. Good for him competing on a women’s team.

What I’m trying to say is my understanding is that being misgendered and having to see the incorrect anatomy is very hard for trans ppl. This person had already removed their breasts. I don’t understand why he stayed on the woman’s team if it causes him such distress. Like, I support your transition but he should move to the men’s team. Otherwise, it’s open/mixec team.

You do know that not all people in a group are the same, right? Apparently, it did not cause him great distress, perhaps because he intentionally and knowingly chose to delay hormone treatments in order to remain on the team for the last season. You seem awfully "sure" about how a total stranger feels; perhaps you should instead assume that he considered the emotional effect of delaying those treatments and decided it was worth it.

And the reality is on the merits, he wouldn’t make the men’s team! From what I’ve read, he stated that he didn’t want to miss out on his last year of collegiate swim with his teammates. He put aside his discomfort with competing while wearing a women’s swimsuit because the other option was not competing at all. Lia Thomas didn’t have to deal with that because there is no way a biological man good enough to compete on a collegiate men’s swim team would be unable to make the women’s team even after transitioning.

Amateur sports. So what? Train harder and beat out the other women on the team. I really do not see the problem.

A person with a male body is breaking records in women’s sports. If you don’t see how this is unfair to the women in the competition, I don’t know what to tell you.

+1. With this logic what exactly was the point of Title IX?

[Anonymous]

I'm not trying to be insensitive but I am a female athlete.
I think Lia Thomas should have to do what Iszac Henig is doing - if you want to keep doing the sport - stay in the male / female division as you were.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Amateur sports. So what? Train harder and beat out the other women on the team. I really do not see the problem.

A person with a male body is breaking records in women’s sports. If you don’t see how this is unfair to the women in the competition, I don’t know what to tell you.

+1. With this logic what exactly was the point of Title IX?

Among other things, to make sure men weren't dominating women's sports. And if you are including trans women as men to make that point, let us know when they start dominating a sport. Because one trans woman in an uncompetitive league (sorry Ivies) breaking a record or two ain't it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - only 1 trans athlete in all college sports and that 1 swims for a non-cut Ivy League team swim team.

Embarrassing. Stupid. Ridiculous. Sick. Hard to describe how utterly pathetic that anti-trans post is.

And yet that one swimmer broke records and beat out the next swimmer by nearly forty seconds in one race. Why should women be okay with this? Why is the burden on women to step aside and let this happen? Why doesn’t the person transitioning step aside and leave women’s competition to the women?

Because that’s what women have always had to do for biological men. It’s simple.

I'm a PP upthread and this sums up my feelings well. Women are being told to sit down and shut up, because the old rules no longer apply for biological males who transition. Wouldn't be fair for them to have to give up on a sport they care about, so let's change the rules and include them. But for a biological woman - no rules are changed to allow for inclusion on the men's team, so he needs to keep suiting up with the ladies if he wants to stay in the sport.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - only 1 trans athlete in all college sports and that 1 swims for a non-cut Ivy League team swim team.

Embarrassing. Stupid. Ridiculous. Sick. Hard to describe how utterly pathetic that anti-trans post is.

And yet that one swimmer broke records and beat out the next swimmer by nearly forty seconds in one race. Why should women be okay with this? Why is the burden on women to step aside and let this happen? Why doesn’t the person transitioning step aside and leave women’s competition to the women?

Because that’s what women have always had to do for biological men. It’s simple.

I'm a PP upthread and this sums up my feelings well. Women are being told to sit down and shut up, because the old rules no longer apply for biological males who transition. Wouldn't be fair for them to have to give up on a sport they care about, so let's change the rules and include them. But for a biological woman - no rules are changed to allow for inclusion on the men's team, so he needs to keep suiting up with the ladies if he wants to stay in the sport.

’

This is interesting. Why is it it’s always woman’s issues that are forced to change?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One. All the moaning and complaining about 1 trans athlete who swims in a bad league. One. You should ashamed.

How many is too many? 5 per team? 5 per conference? You can’ keep saying it’s just a few if you aren’t going to ensure that’s always the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Amateur sports. So what? Train harder and beat out the other women on the team. I really do not see the problem.

A person with a male body is breaking records in women’s sports. If you don’t see how this is unfair to the women in the competition, I don’t know what to tell you.

+1. With this logic what exactly was the point of Title IX?

Among other things, to make sure men weren't dominating women's sports. And if you are including trans women as men to make that point, let us know when they start dominating a sport. Because one trans woman in an uncompetitive league (sorry Ivies) breaking a record or two ain't it.

The records Lia Thomas is breaking aren’t just lowly Ivy League records, she’s challenging records held by female Olympians. You are either trolling or being deliberately obtuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Amateur sports. So what? Train harder and beat out the other women on the team. I really do not see the problem.

A person with a male body is breaking records in women’s sports. If you don’t see how this is unfair to the women in the competition, I don’t know what to tell you.

+1. With this logic what exactly was the point of Title IX?

Among other things, to make sure men weren't dominating women's sports. And if you are including trans women as men to make that point, let us know when they start dominating a sport. Because one trans woman in an uncompetitive league (sorry Ivies) breaking a record or two ain't it.

The records Lia Thomas is breaking aren’t just lowly Ivy League records, she’s challenging records held by female Olympians. You are either trolling or being deliberately obtuse.

Thomas isn’t close to any ncaa record. Your ridiculous and anti-lgbt. Nice combination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Amateur sports. So what? Train harder and beat out the other women on the team. I really do not see the problem.

A person with a male body is breaking records in women’s sports. If you don’t see how this is unfair to the women in the competition, I don’t know what to tell you.

+1. With this logic what exactly was the point of Title IX?

Among other things, to make sure men weren't dominating women's sports. And if you are including trans women as men to make that point, let us know when they start dominating a sport. Because one trans woman in an uncompetitive league (sorry Ivies) breaking a record or two ain't it.

The records Lia Thomas is breaking aren’t just lowly Ivy League records, she’s challenging records held by female Olympians. You are either trolling or being deliberately obtuse.

Thomas isn’t close to any ncaa record. Your ridiculous and anti-lgbt. Nice combination.

Definitely a troll. Well known and trailblazing members of the LGBT community (Martina Navratilova for one) share the perspective that Lia shouldn’t be competing against biological women. This is not an anti-LGBT issue.

[Anonymous]

Is that poster correct? Is it only one? I read the article that was attached to an earlier post and that says one. If that is correct and there are not a couple thousand taking over with women’s sports then I agree with that poster. Either post the list of a few hundred trans athletes taking over women’s college sports or shut up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is that poster correct? Is it only one? I read the article that was attached to an earlier post and that says one. If that is correct and there are not a couple thousand taking over with women’s sports then I agree with that poster. Either post the list of a few hundred trans athletes taking over women’s college sports or shut up.

Is that the standard now? Something is only wrong if there’s a lot of it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is that poster correct? Is it only one? I read the article that was attached to an earlier post and that says one. If that is correct and there are not a couple thousand taking over with women’s sports then I agree with that poster. Either post the list of a few hundred trans athletes taking over women’s college sports or shut up.

Is that the standard now? Something is only wrong if there’s a lot of it?

And once again, how many is too many? One per team is allowed but 3 isn’t? What do you propose?