I’m confused! Trans swimmers Lia Thomas and Iszac Henig went head-to-head in the pool

[Anonymous]

Let’s get this out of the way : No transphobic comments so this thread doesn’t get shut down.

Now, I don’t have an issue with trans-athletes competing on their new gendered team as long as the appropriate changes have been made relative to the sports requirements. That said, I don’t understand why there is a trans man is competing on the Yale’s female swim team. How does that make any sense, this person should WANT to be on the male swim team. Doesn’t this make it an open/mixed team.

Here is the article : https://www.outsports.com/trans/2022/1/9/22874147/lia-thomas-iszac-henig-penn-swimming-transgender-athlete-yale-ncaa-ivy

The headline: Thomas showed slower times in her two wins, as Yale transgender swimmer Iszac Henig showed speed, beating Thomas head-to-head.

[Anonymous]

Pretty simple explanation. Social agenda + Ivy League + media>people who care about NCAA swimming results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let’s get this out of the way : No transphobic comments so this thread doesn’t get shut down.

Now, I don’t have an issue with trans-athletes competing on their new gendered team as long as the appropriate changes have been made relative to the sports requirements. That said, I don’t understand why there is a trans man is competing on the Yale’s female swim team. How does that make any sense, this person should WANT to be on the male swim team. Doesn’t this make it an open/mixed team.

Here is the article : https://www.outsports.com/trans/2022/1/9/22874147/lia-thomas-iszac-henig-penn-swimming-transgender-athlete-yale-ncaa-ivy

The headline: Thomas showed slower times in her two wins, as Yale transgender swimmer Iszac Henig showed speed, beating Thomas head-to-head.

Henig was apparently with the team before becoming a trans man. He specifically did not do his hormone treatments so as not to be ineligible to compete this last time with his teammates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s get this out of the way : No transphobic comments so this thread doesn’t get shut down.

Now, I don’t have an issue with trans-athletes competing on their new gendered team as long as the appropriate changes have been made relative to the sports requirements. That said, I don’t understand why there is a trans man is competing on the Yale’s female swim team. How does that make any sense, this person should WANT to be on the male swim team. Doesn’t this make it an open/mixed team.

Here is the article : https://www.outsports.com/trans/2022/1/9/22874147/lia-thomas-iszac-henig-penn-swimming-transgender-athlete-yale-ncaa-ivy

The headline: Thomas showed slower times in her two wins, as Yale transgender swimmer Iszac Henig showed speed, beating Thomas head-to-head.

Henig was apparently with the team before becoming a trans man. He specifically did not do his hormone treatments so as not to be ineligible to compete this last time with his teammates.

Okay, that’s nice and all but I’m sure it causes him great gender dysphasia to stay. I’m sure he doesn’t feel comfortable. Why didn’t he switch teams

[Anonymous]

I find this really interesting as Henig’s body is essentially that of a female with their breasts removed, and swam faster than Thomas whose body is essentially male with a year of hormone suppression therapy. The actual times are in line with fast women’s times — not very impressive for Thomas whose recent fast times clearly reflected the physical advantages of having gone through puberty as a male. Maybe Thomas sort of loafed her races because of all the backlash, who knows. It also makes me think about how much breasts might really get in the way of fast swimming. I was a female swimmer and saw a lot of girls who dominated at ages 8-12 plateau and slow down once they hit puberty and developed curves. Those of us who didn’t develop curves (myself included, which I lamented at the time) tended to stay on an upward trajectory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s get this out of the way : No transphobic comments so this thread doesn’t get shut down.

Now, I don’t have an issue with trans-athletes competing on their new gendered team as long as the appropriate changes have been made relative to the sports requirements. That said, I don’t understand why there is a trans man is competing on the Yale’s female swim team. How does that make any sense, this person should WANT to be on the male swim team. Doesn’t this make it an open/mixed team.

Here is the article : https://www.outsports.com/trans/2022/1/9/22874147/lia-thomas-iszac-henig-penn-swimming-transgender-athlete-yale-ncaa-ivy

The headline: Thomas showed slower times in her two wins, as Yale transgender swimmer Iszac Henig showed speed, beating Thomas head-to-head.

Henig was apparently with the team before becoming a trans man. He specifically did not do his hormone treatments so as not to be ineligible to compete this last time with his teammates.

Okay, that’s nice and all but I’m sure it causes him great gender dysphasia to stay. I’m sure he doesn’t feel comfortable. Why didn’t he switch teams

I’m sure you’ll be sad to learn that it’s not up to you to dictate what choices other people make regarding their own gender expression.

There are rules, and he followed them. Good for him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s get this out of the way : No transphobic comments so this thread doesn’t get shut down.

Now, I don’t have an issue with trans-athletes competing on their new gendered team as long as the appropriate changes have been made relative to the sports requirements. That said, I don’t understand why there is a trans man is competing on the Yale’s female swim team. How does that make any sense, this person should WANT to be on the male swim team. Doesn’t this make it an open/mixed team.

Here is the article : https://www.outsports.com/trans/2022/1/9/22874147/lia-thomas-iszac-henig-penn-swimming-transgender-athlete-yale-ncaa-ivy

The headline: Thomas showed slower times in her two wins, as Yale transgender swimmer Iszac Henig showed speed, beating Thomas head-to-head.

Henig was apparently with the team before becoming a trans man. He specifically did not do his hormone treatments so as not to be ineligible to compete this last time with his teammates.

Okay, that’s nice and all but I’m sure it causes him great gender dysphasia to stay. I’m sure he doesn’t feel comfortable. Why didn’t he switch teams

I’m sure you’ll be sad to learn that it’s not up to you to dictate what choices other people make regarding their own gender expression.

There are rules, and he followed them. Good for him.

NP you sound ridiculous. Good for him competing on a women’s team.

[Anonymous]

The news media likes to sensationalize stories like the trans-man competing on womens teams so I'm sure it wouldn't be sensationalized as much and we wouldn't hear about it, but are there any cases of a trans-man competing on men's teams? A trans-women deciding to forego hormones so she can remain and compete on a men's team?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s get this out of the way : No transphobic comments so this thread doesn’t get shut down.

Now, I don’t have an issue with trans-athletes competing on their new gendered team as long as the appropriate changes have been made relative to the sports requirements. That said, I don’t understand why there is a trans man is competing on the Yale’s female swim team. How does that make any sense, this person should WANT to be on the male swim team. Doesn’t this make it an open/mixed team.

Here is the article : https://www.outsports.com/trans/2022/1/9/22874147/lia-thomas-iszac-henig-penn-swimming-transgender-athlete-yale-ncaa-ivy

The headline: Thomas showed slower times in her two wins, as Yale transgender swimmer Iszac Henig showed speed, beating Thomas head-to-head.

Henig was apparently with the team before becoming a trans man. He specifically did not do his hormone treatments so as not to be ineligible to compete this last time with his teammates.

Okay, that’s nice and all but I’m sure it causes him great gender dysphasia to stay. I’m sure he doesn’t feel comfortable. Why didn’t he switch teams

It’s the team he’s been with since freshman year, he doesn’t take hormones and hasn’t had a sex change operation…if he’s okay wearing the women’s swimsuit one last time before hanging it up, what’s it to you. He has no unfair advantage over his teammates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find this really interesting as Henig’s body is essentially that of a female with their breasts removed, and swam faster than Thomas whose body is essentially male with a year of hormone suppression therapy. The actual times are in line with fast women’s times — not very impressive for Thomas whose recent fast times clearly reflected the physical advantages of having gone through puberty as a male. Maybe Thomas sort of loafed her races because of all the backlash, who knows. It also makes me think about how much breasts might really get in the way of fast swimming. I was a female swimmer and saw a lot of girls who dominated at ages 8-12 plateau and slow down once they hit puberty and developed curves. Those of us who didn’t develop curves (myself included, which I lamented at the time) tended to stay on an upward trajectory.

Children with precocious puberty may grow quickly at first and be tall, compared with their peers. But, because their bones mature more quickly than normal, they often stop growing earlier than usual. This can cause them to be shorter than average as adults.

Although swimmers with a wide variety of body types have found success in the sport, most at the international level tend to look similar, sporting tall and muscular bodies – typically with long torsos, long arms and short legs. This begs the question: If you could hypothetically build the perfect swimmer’s body in a lab, what would it look like?

Although it is not possible to create one body that is perfect for all events, as there are so many different distances and strokes, research has shown that there are certain physical characteristics which are conducive to creating the best swimmers.

Height
One of the most obvious physical factors that give swimmers a distinct advantage in the pool is height. This can clearly be seen in many of the elite international male swimmers. Nathan Adrian stands at 6 feet 6 inches tall (1.98m), and Kliment Kolesnikov and Michael Andrew both stand at 6 foot 5 inches tall (1.96m).
https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/what-makes-the-perfect-swimmers-body/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find this really interesting as Henig’s body is essentially that of a female with their breasts removed, and swam faster than Thomas whose body is essentially male with a year of hormone suppression therapy. The actual times are in line with fast women’s times — not very impressive for Thomas whose recent fast times clearly reflected the physical advantages of having gone through puberty as a male. Maybe Thomas sort of loafed her races because of all the backlash, who knows. It also makes me think about how much breasts might really get in the way of fast swimming. I was a female swimmer and saw a lot of girls who dominated at ages 8-12 plateau and slow down once they hit puberty and developed curves. Those of us who didn’t develop curves (myself included, which I lamented at the time) tended to stay on an upward trajectory.

This would not surprise me in the least.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s get this out of the way : No transphobic comments so this thread doesn’t get shut down.

Now, I don’t have an issue with trans-athletes competing on their new gendered team as long as the appropriate changes have been made relative to the sports requirements. That said, I don’t understand why there is a trans man is competing on the Yale’s female swim team. How does that make any sense, this person should WANT to be on the male swim team. Doesn’t this make it an open/mixed team.

Here is the article : https://www.outsports.com/trans/2022/1/9/22874147/lia-thomas-iszac-henig-penn-swimming-transgender-athlete-yale-ncaa-ivy

The headline: Thomas showed slower times in her two wins, as Yale transgender swimmer Iszac Henig showed speed, beating Thomas head-to-head.

Henig was apparently with the team before becoming a trans man. He specifically did not do his hormone treatments so as not to be ineligible to compete this last time with his teammates.

Okay, that’s nice and all but I’m sure it causes him great gender dysphasia to stay. I’m sure he doesn’t feel comfortable. Why didn’t he switch teams

I’m sure you’ll be sad to learn that it’s not up to you to dictate what choices other people make regarding their own gender expression.

There are rules, and he followed them. Good for him.

NP you sound ridiculous. Good for him competing on a women’s team.

What I’m trying to say is my understanding is that being misgendered and having to see the incorrect anatomy is very hard for trans ppl. This person had already removed their breasts. I don’t understand why he stayed on the woman’s team if it causes him such distress. Like, I support your transition but he should move to the men’s team. Otherwise, it’s open/mixec team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find this really interesting as Henig’s body is essentially that of a female with their breasts removed, and swam faster than Thomas whose body is essentially male with a year of hormone suppression therapy. The actual times are in line with fast women’s times — not very impressive for Thomas whose recent fast times clearly reflected the physical advantages of having gone through puberty as a male. Maybe Thomas sort of loafed her races because of all the backlash, who knows. It also makes me think about how much breasts might really get in the way of fast swimming. I was a female swimmer and saw a lot of girls who dominated at ages 8-12 plateau and slow down once they hit puberty and developed curves. Those of us who didn’t develop curves (myself included, which I lamented at the time) tended to stay on an upward trajectory.

This would not surprise me in the least.

I can’t imagine any athlete would do that, but why do you think so?

[Anonymous]

The thing that bothers me about this issue is that by allowing trans women athletes who went through male puberty to compete against women, we are adopting a form of affirmative action for trans female athletes (but not trans male). That might be justified, but no one’s talking about why that is or is not the case. I am very bothered by the fact that this affirmative action is taken at the sole cost to other female athletes who we decided needed their athletic opportunities protected, which is why we passed Title IX. As evidenced by this race, no men (cis or trans) sacrifice anything to support trans rights here, they face less competition for opportunities to compete, scholarships etc. (yes I know that’s not an issue in the Ivy League but will be elsewhere). There is less completion in the menevents.

[Anonymous]

Enough.

Out Magazine did the research. In the 10 years since the NCAA adopted its latest set of rules regarding trans athlete participation there have been a grand total of 27 trans athletes, MtF and FtM, who have participated in a and college sport. That’s NCAA, NAIA, and Junior college. So - far more than 1,000,000 college athletes over that same 10 year period. And, so far, the only trans athlete to win any championship- either individually or as a team - is CeCe Telfer who ran a 57.53 400m hurdles in 2019. That time would not have put her in the D1 finals for that event.