I’m confused! Trans swimmers Lia Thomas and Iszac Henig went head-to-head in the pool

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So - only 1 trans athlete in all college sports and that 1 swims for a non-cut Ivy League team swim team.

Embarrassing. Stupid. Ridiculous. Sick. Hard to describe how utterly pathetic that anti-trans post is.

And yet that one swimmer broke records and beat out the next swimmer by nearly forty seconds in one race. Why should women be okay with this? Why is the burden on women to step aside and let this happen? Why doesn’t the person transitioning step aside and leave women’s competition to the women?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So - only 1 trans athlete in all college sports and that 1 swims for a non-cut Ivy League team swim team.

Embarrassing. Stupid. Ridiculous. Sick. Hard to describe how utterly pathetic that anti-trans post is.

1 Ivy League swimmer who is outperforming all previous female Ivy League swimmers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - only 1 trans athlete in all college sports and that 1 swims for a non-cut Ivy League team swim team.

Embarrassing. Stupid. Ridiculous. Sick. Hard to describe how utterly pathetic that anti-trans post is.

1 Ivy League swimmer who is outperforming all previous female Ivy League swimmers

1 Ivy League swimmer who is challenging records set by Olympic gold medalists Missy Franklin and Katie Ledecky. FFS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - only 1 trans athlete in all college sports and that 1 swims for a non-cut Ivy League team swim team.

Embarrassing. Stupid. Ridiculous. Sick. Hard to describe how utterly pathetic that anti-trans post is.

And yet that one swimmer broke records and beat out the next swimmer by nearly forty seconds in one race. Why should women be okay with this? Why is the burden on women to step aside and let this happen? Why doesn’t the person transitioning step aside and leave women’s competition to the women?

Because that’s what women have always had to do for biological men. It’s simple.

[Anonymous]

If we believe that there should be gendered sports, then it has to be based on the biology behind it. We can’t complain about the old East German women’s teams or complain about doping and then be okay with someone who got the advantages of going through puberty as a male. That’s the nature of the advantage. Now, it’s totally cool to,call the athlete by their preferred names and pronouns, let them dress however they like. But you can’t be against all forms of artificially altered hormonal profiles in all cases except one. Athletic competition is about physical prowess, not how you feel inside. Either that, or just have a single competition for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Enough.

Out Magazine did the research. In the 10 years since the NCAA adopted its latest set of rules regarding trans athlete participation there have been a grand total of 27 trans athletes, MtF and FtM, who have participated in a and college sport. That’s NCAA, NAIA, and Junior college. So - far more than 1,000,000 college athletes over that same 10 year period. And, so far, the only trans athlete to win any championship- either individually or as a team - is CeCe Telfer who ran a 57.53 400m hurdles in 2019. That time would not have put her in the D1 finals for that event.

So?
You don't think the number of trans athletes will increase in the next couple of years?
I do. Considerably.
At the expense of biological women.

And your proof?

Wait a year. You'll see.

So - no proof at all. Considered there are not 40 MtF or FtM trans athletes participating in high school today - out of about 6,000,000 high school athletes unless you have some proof - take your anti -trans, and anti-lgbt rhetoric elsewhere.

PP—Your logic is lacking. You can’t predict the future of this topic based on what you see now. The high school numbers don’t matter when someone doesn’t become trans until college. Your post makes no sense.

Take your anti-woman thinking elsewhere.

Your last anti-trans thread got nuked also. Go away.

I didn’t start a thread and I’m not anti-trans. Let’s create whole trans teams. I’m all for that. Why are you against that?

There aren’t any. 27 MtF and FtM trans athletes participating in college sports in 10 years. Ohhh. Scary. Whatever shall we do?

Sarcasm: The easy out.

Sarcasm: How to say something while saying nothing.

I will help you out if you are struggling to understand the sarcasm.. It would be impossible to have a separate league for trans individuals since there are very very few teams athletes.

Then perhaps the trans athletes could simply pursue their sport recreationally and leave women’s competitions alone. If there’s so few of them, what’s the big deal with that?

Or wait until after college to fully transition if they want to compete just like the trans Man did in this case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Enough.

Out Magazine did the research. In the 10 years since the NCAA adopted its latest set of rules regarding trans athlete participation there have been a grand total of 27 trans athletes, MtF and FtM, who have participated in a and college sport. That’s NCAA, NAIA, and Junior college. So - far more than 1,000,000 college athletes over that same 10 year period. And, so far, the only trans athlete to win any championship- either individually or as a team - is CeCe Telfer who ran a 57.53 400m hurdles in 2019. That time would not have put her in the D1 finals for that event.

So?
You don't think the number of trans athletes will increase in the next couple of years?
I do. Considerably.
At the expense of biological women.

And your proof?

Wait a year. You'll see.

So - no proof at all. Considered there are not 40 MtF or FtM trans athletes participating in high school today - out of about 6,000,000 high school athletes unless you have some proof - take your anti -trans, and anti-lgbt rhetoric elsewhere.

PP—Your logic is lacking. You can’t predict the future of this topic based on what you see now. The high school numbers don’t matter when someone doesn’t become trans until college. Your post makes no sense.

Take your anti-woman thinking elsewhere.

Your last anti-trans thread got nuked also. Go away.

I didn’t start a thread and I’m not anti-trans. Let’s create whole trans teams. I’m all for that. Why are you against that?

There aren’t any. 27 MtF and FtM trans athletes participating in college sports in 10 years. Ohhh. Scary. Whatever shall we do?

Sarcasm: The easy out.

Sarcasm: How to say something while saying nothing.

I will help you out if you are struggling to understand the sarcasm.. It would be impossible to have a separate league for trans individuals since there are very very few teams athletes.

Then perhaps the trans athletes could simply pursue their sport recreationally and leave women’s competitions alone. If there’s so few of them, what’s the big deal with that?

Or wait until after college to fully transition if they want to compete just like the trans Man did in this case.

Let’s be real here, the trans man delayed transition because as a biological woman he would not be able to make the men’s squad because his times wouldn’t be fast enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - only 1 trans athlete in all college sports and that 1 swims for a non-cut Ivy League team swim team.

Embarrassing. Stupid. Ridiculous. Sick. Hard to describe how utterly pathetic that anti-trans post is.

And yet that one swimmer broke records and beat out the next swimmer by nearly forty seconds in one race. Why should women be okay with this? Why is the burden on women to step aside and let this happen? Why doesn’t the person transitioning step aside and leave women’s competition to the women?

Because that’s what women have always had to do for biological men. It’s simple.

sounds like you think it is a good idea. Not simple. Sexist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s get this out of the way : No transphobic comments so this thread doesn’t get shut down.

Now, I don’t have an issue with trans-athletes competing on their new gendered team as long as the appropriate changes have been made relative to the sports requirements. That said, I don’t understand why there is a trans man is competing on the Yale’s female swim team. How does that make any sense, this person should WANT to be on the male swim team. Doesn’t this make it an open/mixed team.

Here is the article : https://www.outsports.com/trans/2022/1/9/22874147/lia-thomas-iszac-henig-penn-swimming-transgender-athlete-yale-ncaa-ivy

The headline: Thomas showed slower times in her two wins, as Yale transgender swimmer Iszac Henig showed speed, beating Thomas head-to-head.

Henig was apparently with the team before becoming a trans man. He specifically did not do his hormone treatments so as not to be ineligible to compete this last time with his teammates.

Okay, that’s nice and all but I’m sure it causes him great gender dysphasia to stay. I’m sure he doesn’t feel comfortable. Why didn’t he switch teams

I’m sure you’ll be sad to learn that it’s not up to you to dictate what choices other people make regarding their own gender expression.

There are rules, and he followed them. Good for him.

NP you sound ridiculous. Good for him competing on a women’s team.

What I’m trying to say is my understanding is that being misgendered and having to see the incorrect anatomy is very hard for trans ppl. This person had already removed their breasts. I don’t understand why he stayed on the woman’s team if it causes him such distress. Like, I support your transition but he should move to the men’s team. Otherwise, it’s open/mixec team.

You do know that not all people in a group are the same, right? Apparently, it did not cause him great distress, perhaps because he intentionally and knowingly chose to delay hormone treatments in order to remain on the team for the last season. You seem awfully "sure" about how a total stranger feels; perhaps you should instead assume that he considered the emotional effect of delaying those treatments and decided it was worth it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - only 1 trans athlete in all college sports and that 1 swims for a non-cut Ivy League team swim team.

Embarrassing. Stupid. Ridiculous. Sick. Hard to describe how utterly pathetic that anti-trans post is.

And yet that one swimmer broke records and beat out the next swimmer by nearly forty seconds in one race. Why should women be okay with this? Why is the burden on women to step aside and let this happen? Why doesn’t the person transitioning step aside and leave women’s competition to the women?

Because that’s what women have always had to do for biological men. It’s simple.

sounds like you think it is a good idea. Not simple. Sexist

You obviously misunderstood PP’s point. You’re on the same side.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s get this out of the way : No transphobic comments so this thread doesn’t get shut down.

Now, I don’t have an issue with trans-athletes competing on their new gendered team as long as the appropriate changes have been made relative to the sports requirements. That said, I don’t understand why there is a trans man is competing on the Yale’s female swim team. How does that make any sense, this person should WANT to be on the male swim team. Doesn’t this make it an open/mixed team.

Here is the article : https://www.outsports.com/trans/2022/1/9/22874147/lia-thomas-iszac-henig-penn-swimming-transgender-athlete-yale-ncaa-ivy

The headline: Thomas showed slower times in her two wins, as Yale transgender swimmer Iszac Henig showed speed, beating Thomas head-to-head.

Henig was apparently with the team before becoming a trans man. He specifically did not do his hormone treatments so as not to be ineligible to compete this last time with his teammates.

Okay, that’s nice and all but I’m sure it causes him great gender dysphasia to stay. I’m sure he doesn’t feel comfortable. Why didn’t he switch teams

I’m sure you’ll be sad to learn that it’s not up to you to dictate what choices other people make regarding their own gender expression.

There are rules, and he followed them. Good for him.

NP you sound ridiculous. Good for him competing on a women’s team.

What I’m trying to say is my understanding is that being misgendered and having to see the incorrect anatomy is very hard for trans ppl. This person had already removed their breasts. I don’t understand why he stayed on the woman’s team if it causes him such distress. Like, I support your transition but he should move to the men’s team. Otherwise, it’s open/mixec team.

You do know that not all people in a group are the same, right? Apparently, it did not cause him great distress, perhaps because he intentionally and knowingly chose to delay hormone treatments in order to remain on the team for the last season. You seem awfully "sure" about how a total stranger feels; perhaps you should instead assume that he considered the emotional effect of delaying those treatments and decided it was worth it.

So transwomen are women, and transmen are women. At least as far as athletic competition goes. Got it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The question I asked was: Is there only one trans athlete currently playing or competing or whatever in all NCAA Division 1 sports right now? The article posted earlier named 7 total in 10 years, and that included the one for Penn and the one who was born a girl and has not physically transitioned to a male.

Is that it? And if it is - what the hell are you talking about?

So are you ok with limiting trans women participation to current levels? If not what percentage of womens sports do you think should be allowed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Enough.

Out Magazine did the research. In the 10 years since the NCAA adopted its latest set of rules regarding trans athlete participation there have been a grand total of 27 trans athletes, MtF and FtM, who have participated in a and college sport. That’s NCAA, NAIA, and Junior college. So - far more than 1,000,000 college athletes over that same 10 year period. And, so far, the only trans athlete to win any championship- either individually or as a team - is CeCe Telfer who ran a 57.53 400m hurdles in 2019. That time would not have put her in the D1 finals for that event.

So?
You don't think the number of trans athletes will increase in the next couple of years?
I do. Considerably.
At the expense of biological women.

And your proof?

Wait a year. You'll see.

So - no proof at all. Considered there are not 40 MtF or FtM trans athletes participating in high school today - out of about 6,000,000 high school athletes unless you have some proof - take your anti -trans, and anti-lgbt rhetoric elsewhere.

PP—Your logic is lacking. You can’t predict the future of this topic based on what you see now. The high school numbers don’t matter when someone doesn’t become trans until college. Your post makes no sense.

Take your anti-woman thinking elsewhere.

Your last anti-trans thread got nuked also. Go away.

I didn’t start a thread and I’m not anti-trans. Let’s create whole trans teams. I’m all for that. Why are you against that?

There aren’t any. 27 MtF and FtM trans athletes participating in college sports in 10 years. Ohhh. Scary. Whatever shall we do?

Sarcasm: The easy out.

Sarcasm: How to say something while saying nothing.

I will help you out if you are struggling to understand the sarcasm.. It would be impossible to have a separate league for trans individuals since there are very very few teams athletes.

Then perhaps the trans athletes could simply pursue their sport recreationally and leave women’s competitions alone. If there’s so few of them, what’s the big deal with that?

Or wait until after college to fully transition if they want to compete just like the trans Man did in this case.

Let’s be real here, the trans man delayed transition because as a biological woman he would not be able to make the men’s squad because his times wouldn’t be fast enough.

Right so if trans women were not allowed to compete against cis women, trans women could make the same choice. And aim asking if it just is 8 ppl, why is that unreasonable?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s get this out of the way : No transphobic comments so this thread doesn’t get shut down.

Now, I don’t have an issue with trans-athletes competing on their new gendered team as long as the appropriate changes have been made relative to the sports requirements. That said, I don’t understand why there is a trans man is competing on the Yale’s female swim team. How does that make any sense, this person should WANT to be on the male swim team. Doesn’t this make it an open/mixed team.

Here is the article : https://www.outsports.com/trans/2022/1/9/22874147/lia-thomas-iszac-henig-penn-swimming-transgender-athlete-yale-ncaa-ivy

The headline: Thomas showed slower times in her two wins, as Yale transgender swimmer Iszac Henig showed speed, beating Thomas head-to-head.

Henig was apparently with the team before becoming a trans man. He specifically did not do his hormone treatments so as not to be ineligible to compete this last time with his teammates.

Okay, that’s nice and all but I’m sure it causes him great gender dysphasia to stay. I’m sure he doesn’t feel comfortable. Why didn’t he switch teams

I’m sure you’ll be sad to learn that it’s not up to you to dictate what choices other people make regarding their own gender expression.

There are rules, and he followed them. Good for him.

NP you sound ridiculous. Good for him competing on a women’s team.

What I’m trying to say is my understanding is that being misgendered and having to see the incorrect anatomy is very hard for trans ppl. This person had already removed their breasts. I don’t understand why he stayed on the woman’s team if it causes him such distress. Like, I support your transition but he should move to the men’s team. Otherwise, it’s open/mixec team.

You do know that not all people in a group are the same, right? Apparently, it did not cause him great distress, perhaps because he intentionally and knowingly chose to delay hormone treatments in order to remain on the team for the last season. You seem awfully "sure" about how a total stranger feels; perhaps you should instead assume that he considered the emotional effect of delaying those treatments and decided it was worth it.

And the reality is on the merits, he wouldn’t make the men’s team! From what I’ve read, he stated that he didn’t want to miss out on his last year of collegiate swim with his teammates. He put aside his discomfort with competing while wearing a women’s swimsuit because the other option was not competing at all. Lia Thomas didn’t have to deal with that because there is no way a biological man good enough to compete on a collegiate men’s swim team would be unable to make the women’s team even after transitioning.

[Anonymous]

One. All the moaning and complaining about 1 trans athlete who swims in a bad league. One. You should ashamed.