New TJ Lawsuit Filed 3/10/21 by Pacific Legal Foundation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
This post displays very clearly why the old admissions process needed to be replaced.

This post displays very clearly that you have no interest in honest discourse and will toss out one sentence non-sequiturs rather than address any opposing points.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This post displays very clearly why the old admissions process needed to be replaced.

This post displays very clearly that you have no interest in honest discourse and will toss out one sentence non-sequiturs rather than address any opposing points.

Again with the ad hominem attacks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am also curious why the PP thinks new admissions locate the kids with aptitude. No aptitude test, no teacher recs, and consideration of hardship factors that have no bearing on STEM aptitude.

Because the old system favored students who were prepped up the wazooo, whereas the new one just looks at ability.

I'd guess if I had a crystal ball that the new system will open the floodgates to white students who in prior system never would've gotten in. Not due to lack of financial resources to test prep either. Time will tell when we see who attends in future years. .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Unforutnately, these are not analogous situations even by a long shot. The difference is some kids can afford to prep their way into TJ while other cannot. This is why you have certain MS sending the lions share of students. There are plenty of smart kids everywhere. This is also public school which should benefit everyone not just wealthy elite.

What fraction of kids currently accepted to TJ do you think got in due to prepping and not due to merit? It looks like a good chunk of those Curie kids are from Loudoun and thus were never competing for Fairfax slots to TJ, and many of those kids probably elected to go to one of the Loudoun magnets.

Longfellow, Carson, and Rocky Run aren't sending so many kids because everyone is a wealthy elite who prepped for the TJ test. Many people who prioritize education specifically chose those pyramids just for the schools, even if they had to sacrifice other things to be able to afford it. Longfellow typically has amazing scores on AMC 10. There truly are a lot of very smart kids there.

None of the new plan boosters seem willing to answer the very simple question I've posted numerous times in this thread. In the new system, exactly how will they find the smart kids at every school who would benefit from TJ? By my understanding, they have GPA and an essay to use. Many middle schools have 50+ kids per grade with perfect 4.0s, and this will only get worse because teachers won't want to deal with the fallout of giving someone an A- or B+ and "ruining the kid's TJ chances." It sounds like kids in Geometry or Algebra II won't get any advantage in selection over kids in Algebra I. Many kids with 4.0s are bright, but nothing that special. With the bar so low and information so sparse, how will the selection committee have any idea which kids to pick?

This post displays very clearly why the old admissions process needed to be replaced.

You are going to have to elaborate on that thought. Finding a group of brilliant, hard-working children focused on STEM and ready for a rigorous advanced academic program was something the old process did with very good results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This post displays very clearly why the old admissions process needed to be replaced.

This post displays very clearly that you have no interest in honest discourse and will toss out one sentence non-sequiturs rather than address any opposing points.

Again with the ad hominem attacks.

Please look up the definition of "ad hominem." You need to have an argument that is not being addressed and replaced with a personal attack. PP was pointing out that you are failing to provide your argument so he can address it. So please, provide your argument and rationale for you position.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This post displays very clearly why the old admissions process needed to be replaced.

This post displays very clearly that you have no interest in honest discourse and will toss out one sentence non-sequiturs rather than address any opposing points.

Again with the ad hominem attacks.

Please look up the definition of "ad hominem." You need to have an argument that is not being addressed and replaced with a personal attack. PP was pointing out that you are failing to provide your argument so he can address it. So please, provide your argument and rationale for you position.

Agree with the PP, these attacks are a distraction from their point which was on the mark. The old process only served a few wealthy families which is not how public monies should be used.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Agree with the PP, these attacks are a distraction from their point which was on the mark. The old process only served a few wealthy families which is not how public monies should be used.

Where is your evidence that most of the kids getting into TJ in previous years were otherwise undeserving kids of wealthy families? I doubt TJ would have the stats and major accomplishments that it does if most of the kids weren't also well deserving of admissions.

I liked the old system because it detected the very top 100-ish kids who absolutely belong at TJ. I dislike the new system because there is no mechanism for detecting those top 100 kids. All kids ranging from somewhat above average to super geniuses will look the same in the new application process. A hybrid approach would be great, where some amount of testing, teacher recommendations, etc could be used to find the top 100 kids, and then the rest of the spots are allocated in whatever way to each middle school. I just want to make sure those very top kids get in.

[Anonymous]

The best way to eventually move beyond race is to focus, for the foreseeable future, on vigorous affirmative action programs that give underrepresented groups of color access to institutions that confer elite status and opportunities. No more resource hoarding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The best way to eventually move beyond race is to focus, for the foreseeable future, on vigorous affirmative action programs that give underrepresented groups of color access to institutions that confer elite status and opportunities. No more resource hoarding.

You are not moving beyond race - you are doing the opposite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The best way to eventually move beyond race is to focus, for the foreseeable future, on vigorous affirmative action programs that give underrepresented groups of color access to institutions that confer elite status and opportunities. No more resource hoarding.

The best way to stop discriminating on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.

[Anonymous]

This country and society are rooted in racism, so to fix the problems we now have, we can’t be race neutral or race blind. I think a lot of the people who have problems with the admissions changes don’t even really understand the history of systemic racism in the US. You can’t treat an entire group of humans as less than for centuries and then say “oh, the system is fair.” No, it’s not fair. Literally nothing in this country is fair for Black people who have to overcome far more obstacles than others. They are not starting from the same starting line; it’s as if everyone else has a head start in a race. And it doesn’t matter if you don’t consider yourself to be affluent; if you are not Black, you will not face the same obstacles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Agree with the PP, these attacks are a distraction from their point which was on the mark. The old process only served a few wealthy families which is not how public monies should be used.

Where is your evidence that most of the kids getting into TJ in previous years were otherwise undeserving kids of wealthy families? I doubt TJ would have the stats and major accomplishments that it does if most of the kids weren't also well deserving of admissions.

I liked the old system because it detected the very top 100-ish kids who absolutely belong at TJ. I dislike the new system because there is no mechanism for detecting those top 100 kids. All kids ranging from somewhat above average to super geniuses will look the same in the new application process. A hybrid approach would be great, where some amount of testing, teacher recommendations, etc could be used to find the top 100 kids, and then the rest of the spots are allocated in whatever way to each middle school. I just want to make sure those very top kids get in.

Teacher recs aren't consistent or reliable. I'm all for testing as long as each MS gets a number if seats based on it's population to help minimize the impact of prep and give a fair chance to everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Agree with the PP, these attacks are a distraction from their point which was on the mark. The old process only served a few wealthy families which is not how public monies should be used.

Where is your evidence that most of the kids getting into TJ in previous years were otherwise undeserving kids of wealthy families? I doubt TJ would have the stats and major accomplishments that it does if most of the kids weren't also well deserving of admissions.

I liked the old system because it detected the very top 100-ish kids who absolutely belong at TJ. I dislike the new system because there is no mechanism for detecting those top 100 kids. All kids ranging from somewhat above average to super geniuses will look the same in the new application process. A hybrid approach would be great, where some amount of testing, teacher recommendations, etc could be used to find the top 100 kids, and then the rest of the spots are allocated in whatever way to each middle school. I just want to make sure those very top kids get in.

Teacher recs aren't consistent or reliable. I'm all for testing as long as each MS gets a number if seats based on it's population to help minimize the impact of prep and give a fair chance to everyone.

Translated - As long as you guarantee my self-serving outcome, I don’t care for the process. How low can you go? You should just remove this equity veneer and come clean on what this is all about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This country and society are rooted in racism, so to fix the problems we now have, we can’t be race neutral or race blind. I think a lot of the people who have problems with the admissions changes don’t even really understand the history of systemic racism in the US. You can’t treat an entire group of humans as less than for centuries and then say “oh, the system is fair.” No, it’s not fair. Literally nothing in this country is fair for Black people who have to overcome far more obstacles than others. They are not starting from the same starting line; it’s as if everyone else has a head start in a race. And it doesn’t matter if you don’t consider yourself to be affluent; if you are not Black, you will not face the same obstacles.

Hispanics and Asians have faced similar obstacles and struggles and many times their struggles and suffering are not amplified like the obstacles of blacks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Agree with the PP, these attacks are a distraction from their point which was on the mark. The old process only served a few wealthy families which is not how public monies should be used.

Where is your evidence that most of the kids getting into TJ in previous years were otherwise undeserving kids of wealthy families? I doubt TJ would have the stats and major accomplishments that it does if most of the kids weren't also well deserving of admissions.

I liked the old system because it detected the very top 100-ish kids who absolutely belong at TJ. I dislike the new system because there is no mechanism for detecting those top 100 kids. All kids ranging from somewhat above average to super geniuses will look the same in the new application process. A hybrid approach would be great, where some amount of testing, teacher recommendations, etc could be used to find the top 100 kids, and then the rest of the spots are allocated in whatever way to each middle school. I just want to make sure those very top kids get in.

Teacher recs aren't consistent or reliable. I'm all for testing as long as each MS gets a number if seats based on it's population to help minimize the impact of prep and give a fair chance to everyone.

Translated - As long as you guarantee my self-serving outcome, I don’t care for the process. How low can you go? You should just remove this equity veneer and come clean on what this is all about.

Completely agree people defending the old system don't really care about fairness are only interested in a self-serving outcome namely a system that is easily gamed by prep classes.