New TJ Lawsuit Filed 3/10/21 by Pacific Legal Foundation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We all know this isn't about who studies more. There were people actually cheating on the TJ exams and I wouldn't be surprised if there is widespread cheating in certain communities to get a leg up. There is nothing good about the way the old system worked. The new system sucks to too but at least it gives a more even playing field.

Those Asian kids can’t possibly succeed unless they are cheating, right? This is the exact type of casual racism that the FCPS School Board engages in and the federal court needs to tackle head-on.

There is actual evidence of widespread cheating...

There was one tutoring center that was had TJ questions from years past because FCPS recycles the questions. Because if this an entire group of students from one race get demonized as cheaters?

Yeah okay racist. All White people are gun toting insurgents and all Black people are serial looters too.

And since gaming the test is the problem, the obvious solution would be creating better, less game-able tests. Not scraping the whole thing all together. That’s just lazy.

Plenty of educators said they would be happy to work with FCPS to make better tests. But FCPS said, shhhh, that doesn’t win us political favors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Pacific Legal Foundation filed a lawsuit against Brabrand and the School Board today in federal district court on behalf of a primarily Asian advocacy group alleging the changes to the TJ admissions process were racially motivated and violate the Equal Protection Clause.

https://pacificlegal.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Coalition-for-TJ-v.-Fairfax-County-School-Board.pdf

This one will require more resources to defend than the one filed in local court. Why is Brabrand subjecting FCPS to such litigation risk over and over again? He got hired saying "the main thing was the main thing." People naively thought he meant academics; instead, it's turned out to be "equity" initiatives that invite judicial challenges.

This, like the other lawsuits, is going absolutely nowhere. The families of the eighth graders are not going to get their injunctive relief - it was already denied in another case - and once the die is cast in the admissions process and students are admitted, they will almost certainly remove their names from the lawsuit. (By the way, several of the litigants are almost certain to gain admission.)

FCPS is many things, but one thing they're not is willing to put themselves at risk of litigation. The entire reason this process took so long was because Brabrand was ironing out any possibility of legal challenge. By far the most effective department in FCPS is Legal, and it has to be because of nonsense like this.

I'd like to ask this question: Why is admission to TJ so important to these communities?

Education was seen as a way to escape extreme poverty? In imperial china anyone who passed a series of exams could join the civil service and gain wealth and power for a period of 2000 years. It was the first and longest lasting meritocracy. These people were known as scholars.

I'm not familiar enough with indian History to answer your question.

In both communities STEM is viewed as a more respectful occupation than in other cultures. For example you will find that many government officials in east asia have a stem background rather than a law background. Also in both societies they have a national examination system, and as such you have to test in to certain schools. Test scores are everything rather than the "balanced" student US universities and high school look for.

At least in east asia this testing system exists for public high schools as well. Everyone wants to be in the best high school so they are better prepared for entry to the best college.

Tests are not necessarily the best way to show “merit.” Tests are limited in how much they can reveal about a person, they only give information about one day in a person's life, and they are easily gamed.

It is worthwhile to utilize an admissions process that is based on more factors and on a variety of information that develops a fuller picture of the candidate, rather than one that assigns a high value to a test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Pacific Legal Foundation filed a lawsuit against Brabrand and the School Board today in federal district court on behalf of a primarily Asian advocacy group alleging the changes to the TJ admissions process were racially motivated and violate the Equal Protection Clause.

https://pacificlegal.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Coalition-for-TJ-v.-Fairfax-County-School-Board.pdf

This one will require more resources to defend than the one filed in local court. Why is Brabrand subjecting FCPS to such litigation risk over and over again? He got hired saying "the main thing was the main thing." People naively thought he meant academics; instead, it's turned out to be "equity" initiatives that invite judicial challenges.

This, like the other lawsuits, is going absolutely nowhere. The families of the eighth graders are not going to get their injunctive relief - it was already denied in another case - and once the die is cast in the admissions process and students are admitted, they will almost certainly remove their names from the lawsuit. (By the way, several of the litigants are almost certain to gain admission.)

FCPS is many things, but one thing they're not is willing to put themselves at risk of litigation. The entire reason this process took so long was because Brabrand was ironing out any possibility of legal challenge. By far the most effective department in FCPS is Legal, and it has to be because of nonsense like this.

I'd like to ask this question: Why is admission to TJ so important to these communities?

Education was seen as a way to escape extreme poverty? In imperial china anyone who passed a series of exams could join the civil service and gain wealth and power for a period of 2000 years. It was the first and longest lasting meritocracy. These people were known as scholars.

I'm not familiar enough with indian History to answer your question.

In both communities STEM is viewed as a more respectful occupation than in other cultures. For example you will find that many government officials in east asia have a stem background rather than a law background. Also in both societies they have a national examination system, and as such you have to test in to certain schools. Test scores are everything rather than the "balanced" student US universities and high school look for.

At least in east asia this testing system exists for public high schools as well. Everyone wants to be in the best high school so they are better prepared for entry to the best college.

Tests are not necessarily the best way to show “merit.” Tests are limited in how much they can reveal about a person, they only give information about one day in a person's life, and they are easily gamed.

It is worthwhile to utilize an admissions process that is based on more factors and on a variety of information that develops a fuller picture of the candidate, rather than one that assigns a high value to a test.

You know very well “‘more factors” just means soft race-based quotas to exclude Asian kids. The “fuller picture” is a joke as the goal is to admit other students based primarily on their race rather than their academic achievement and potential. Shame on FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/03/10/thomas-jefferson-high-school-students-parents-are-fighting-changes-admissions-standards-heres-why/

+1 thank you for sharing!

[Anonymous]

They should have kept the teacher recommendations if they really cared about a fuller picture of the students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Pacific Legal Foundation filed a lawsuit against Brabrand and the School Board today in federal district court on behalf of a primarily Asian advocacy group alleging the changes to the TJ admissions process were racially motivated and violate the Equal Protection Clause.

https://pacificlegal.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Coalition-for-TJ-v.-Fairfax-County-School-Board.pdf

This one will require more resources to defend than the one filed in local court. Why is Brabrand subjecting FCPS to such litigation risk over and over again? He got hired saying "the main thing was the main thing." People naively thought he meant academics; instead, it's turned out to be "equity" initiatives that invite judicial challenges.

This, like the other lawsuits, is going absolutely nowhere. The families of the eighth graders are not going to get their injunctive relief - it was already denied in another case - and once the die is cast in the admissions process and students are admitted, they will almost certainly remove their names from the lawsuit. (By the way, several of the litigants are almost certain to gain admission.)

FCPS is many things, but one thing they're not is willing to put themselves at risk of litigation. The entire reason this process took so long was because Brabrand was ironing out any possibility of legal challenge. By far the most effective department in FCPS is Legal, and it has to be because of nonsense like this.

I'd like to ask this question: Why is admission to TJ so important to these communities?

Education was seen as a way to escape extreme poverty? In imperial china anyone who passed a series of exams could join the civil service and gain wealth and power for a period of 2000 years. It was the first and longest lasting meritocracy. These people were known as scholars.

I'm not familiar enough with indian History to answer your question.

In both communities STEM is viewed as a more respectful occupation than in other cultures. For example you will find that many government officials in east asia have a stem background rather than a law background. Also in both societies they have a national examination system, and as such you have to test in to certain schools. Test scores are everything rather than the "balanced" student US universities and high school look for.

At least in east asia this testing system exists for public high schools as well. Everyone wants to be in the best high school so they are better prepared for entry to the best college.

Tests are not necessarily the best way to show “merit.” Tests are limited in how much they can reveal about a person, they only give information about one day in a person's life, and they are easily gamed.

It is worthwhile to utilize an admissions process that is based on more factors and on a variety of information that develops a fuller picture of the candidate, rather than one that assigns a high value to a test.

True, but FCPS took the most revealing of those other factors away, the teacher recs and course rigor. They replaced it with a nebulous portrait of a graduate test, which just screams subjectivity and discrimination. Also, when you're dealing with a small group of people, I agree that standardized tests aren't necessarily the best way to determine merit, but once you get to the point of thousands of people that need to be assessed, a more individualized assessment becomes impractical. Practicality and limited time and resources will dictate making preliminary cuts based on simple quantifiable factors in order to get it down to a manageable review size. Now, gpa is the only way to do this, yet that varies so widely based on teacher, school and course rigor. Those with lower gpa's will never have a shot, regardless of their intellect or potential.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Pacific Legal Foundation filed a lawsuit against Brabrand and the School Board today in federal district court on behalf of a primarily Asian advocacy group alleging the changes to the TJ admissions process were racially motivated and violate the Equal Protection Clause.

https://pacificlegal.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Coalition-for-TJ-v.-Fairfax-County-School-Board.pdf

This one will require more resources to defend than the one filed in local court. Why is Brabrand subjecting FCPS to such litigation risk over and over again? He got hired saying "the main thing was the main thing." People naively thought he meant academics; instead, it's turned out to be "equity" initiatives that invite judicial challenges.

This, like the other lawsuits, is going absolutely nowhere. The families of the eighth graders are not going to get their injunctive relief - it was already denied in another case - and once the die is cast in the admissions process and students are admitted, they will almost certainly remove their names from the lawsuit. (By the way, several of the litigants are almost certain to gain admission.)

FCPS is many things, but one thing they're not is willing to put themselves at risk of litigation. The entire reason this process took so long was because Brabrand was ironing out any possibility of legal challenge. By far the most effective department in FCPS is Legal, and it has to be because of nonsense like this.

I'd like to ask this question: Why is admission to TJ so important to these communities?

Education was seen as a way to escape extreme poverty? In imperial china anyone who passed a series of exams could join the civil service and gain wealth and power for a period of 2000 years. It was the first and longest lasting meritocracy. These people were known as scholars.

I'm not familiar enough with indian History to answer your question.

In both communities STEM is viewed as a more respectful occupation than in other cultures. For example you will find that many government officials in east asia have a stem background rather than a law background. Also in both societies they have a national examination system, and as such you have to test in to certain schools. Test scores are everything rather than the "balanced" student US universities and high school look for.

At least in east asia this testing system exists for public high schools as well. Everyone wants to be in the best high school so they are better prepared for entry to the best college.

Tests are not necessarily the best way to show “merit.” Tests are limited in how much they can reveal about a person, they only give information about one day in a person's life, and they are easily gamed.

It is worthwhile to utilize an admissions process that is based on more factors and on a variety of information that develops a fuller picture of the candidate, rather than one that assigns a high value to a test.

True, but FCPS took the most revealing of those other factors away, the teacher recs and course rigor. They replaced it with a nebulous portrait of a graduate test, which just screams subjectivity and discrimination. Also, when you're dealing with a small group of people, I agree that standardized tests aren't necessarily the best way to determine merit, but once you get to the point of thousands of people that need to be assessed, a more individualized assessment becomes impractical. Practicality and limited time and resources will dictate making preliminary cuts based on simple quantifiable factors in order to get it down to a manageable review size. Now, gpa is the only way to do this, yet that varies so widely based on teacher, school and course rigor. Those with lower gpa's will never have a shot, regardless of their intellect or potential.

You make a good point. It would be almost impossible to holistically review 5000+ applications in a meaningful and objective way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We all know this isn't about who studies more. There were people actually cheating on the TJ exams and I wouldn't be surprised if there is widespread cheating in certain communities to get a leg up. There is nothing good about the way the old system worked. The new system sucks too but at least it gives a more even playing field.

28% of the class of 2024 came from one single prep company. 133 kids. That same company only had 50 kids admitted a year before.

It will be interesting to see what, if any, impact the list of prepped students has on college admissions. The first and last names of the kids prepped in 2022, 2023 and 2024 are out there and it will likely be shared with college admissions officers. There was a case last year or the year before where a student saw another student has his direct competition for college admissions. The targeted student was tricked into saying a racist term on camera and the other student shares the video with top college admissions.

[Anonymous]

The school is already over represented by Asians so good luck with that.

[Anonymous]

Just close the school. It's nothing but a lightning rod for controversy and there is no way to satisfy either side. The people against reform, rightly, claim that the there kids earned a spot. The pro reform side claim, again rightly, that disadvantaged kids are never given the chance to earn a spot because they don't have access to the outside activities that make for a good application and prepare them for the exam

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We all know this isn't about who studies more. There were people actually cheating on the TJ exams and I wouldn't be surprised if there is widespread cheating in certain communities to get a leg up. There is nothing good about the way the old system worked. The new system sucks too but at least it gives a more even playing field.

28% of the class of 2024 came from one single prep company. 133 kids. That same company only had 50 kids admitted a year before.

It will be interesting to see what, if any, impact the list of prepped students has on college admissions. The first and last names of the kids prepped in 2022, 2023 and 2024 are out there and it will likely be shared with college admissions officers. There was a case last year or the year before where a student saw another student has his direct competition for college admissions. The targeted student was tricked into saying a racist term on camera and the other student shares the video with top college admissions.

Other TJ students have already discussed their plans to use these lists against the Curie students, which tells you something about the deep toxicity of the TJ environment. It's not likely, however, to have any sort of impact at all in the college admissions process.

Curie didn't really do anything illegal here, as disgusting and shameful as it was. They shouldn't have any legal liability. But they absolutely did have a major impact on testing being removed as a component of the TJ admissions process, and as a consequence will likely be the single biggest influence in the upcoming decline in the Indian American TJ population over the next 5-10 years.

The lawsuit against FCPS still isn't going anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We all know this isn't about who studies more. There were people actually cheating on the TJ exams and I wouldn't be surprised if there is widespread cheating in certain communities to get a leg up. There is nothing good about the way the old system worked. The new system sucks too but at least it gives a more even playing field.

28% of the class of 2024 came from one single prep company. 133 kids. That same company only had 50 kids admitted a year before.

It will be interesting to see what, if any, impact the list of prepped students has on college admissions. The first and last names of the kids prepped in 2022, 2023 and 2024 are out there and it will likely be shared with college admissions officers. There was a case last year or the year before where a student saw another student has his direct competition for college admissions. The targeted student was tricked into saying a racist term on camera and the other student shares the video with top college admissions.

Other TJ students have already discussed their plans to use these lists against the Curie students, which tells you something about the deep toxicity of the TJ environment. It's not likely, however, to have any sort of impact at all in the college admissions process.

Curie didn't really do anything illegal here, as disgusting and shameful as it was. They shouldn't have any legal liability. But they absolutely did have a major impact on testing being removed as a component of the TJ admissions process, and as a consequence will likely be the single biggest influence in the upcoming decline in the Indian American TJ population over the next 5-10 years.

The lawsuit against FCPS still isn't going anywhere.

hopefully the county uses the lawsuit as an opportunity to depose the students and curie staff. Tough spot for the students, lie under oath and risk the penalties or tell the truth and get expelled

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We all know this isn't about who studies more. There were people actually cheating on the TJ exams and I wouldn't be surprised if there is widespread cheating in certain communities to get a leg up. There is nothing good about the way the old system worked. The new system sucks too but at least it gives a more even playing field.

28% of the class of 2024 came from one single prep company. 133 kids. That same company only had 50 kids admitted a year before.

It will be interesting to see what, if any, impact the list of prepped students has on college admissions. The first and last names of the kids prepped in 2022, 2023 and 2024 are out there and it will likely be shared with college admissions officers. There was a case last year or the year before where a student saw another student has his direct competition for college admissions. The targeted student was tricked into saying a racist term on camera and the other student shares the video with top college admissions.

Other TJ students have already discussed their plans to use these lists against the Curie students, which tells you something about the deep toxicity of the TJ environment. It's not likely, however, to have any sort of impact at all in the college admissions process.

Curie didn't really do anything illegal here, as disgusting and shameful as it was. They shouldn't have any legal liability. But they absolutely did have a major impact on testing being removed as a component of the TJ admissions process, and as a consequence will likely be the single biggest influence in the upcoming decline in the Indian American TJ population over the next 5-10 years.

The lawsuit against FCPS still isn't going anywhere.

hopefully the county uses the lawsuit as an opportunity to depose the students and curie staff. Tough spot for the students, lie under oath and risk the penalties or tell the truth and get expelled

I mean, TJ students don't get expelled for cheating repeatedly while they're actually in the school. There's no way they'd get expelled for this. Might face some repercussions from the company that produces the Quant-Q, since that's supposed to be a secure exam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Pacific Legal Foundation filed a lawsuit against Brabrand and the School Board today in federal district court on behalf of a primarily Asian advocacy group alleging the changes to the TJ admissions process were racially motivated and violate the Equal Protection Clause.

https://pacificlegal.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Coalition-for-TJ-v.-Fairfax-County-School-Board.pdf

This one will require more resources to defend than the one filed in local court. Why is Brabrand subjecting FCPS to such litigation risk over and over again? He got hired saying "the main thing was the main thing." People naively thought he meant academics; instead, it's turned out to be "equity" initiatives that invite judicial challenges.

This, like the other lawsuits, is going absolutely nowhere. The families of the eighth graders are not going to get their injunctive relief - it was already denied in another case - and once the die is cast in the admissions process and students are admitted, they will almost certainly remove their names from the lawsuit. (By the way, several of the litigants are almost certain to gain admission.)

FCPS is many things, but one thing they're not is willing to put themselves at risk of litigation. The entire reason this process took so long was because Brabrand was ironing out any possibility of legal challenge. By far the most effective department in FCPS is Legal, and it has to be because of nonsense like this.

I'd like to ask this question: Why is admission to TJ so important to these communities?

Education was seen as a way to escape extreme poverty? In imperial china anyone who passed a series of exams could join the civil service and gain wealth and power for a period of 2000 years. It was the first and longest lasting meritocracy. These people were known as scholars.

I'm not familiar enough with indian History to answer your question.

In both communities STEM is viewed as a more respectful occupation than in other cultures. For example you will find that many government officials in east asia have a stem background rather than a law background. Also in both societies they have a national examination system, and as such you have to test in to certain schools. Test scores are everything rather than the "balanced" student US universities and high school look for.

At least in east asia this testing system exists for public high schools as well. Everyone wants to be in the best high school so they are better prepared for entry to the best college.

Tests are not necessarily the best way to show “merit.” Tests are limited in how much they can reveal about a person, they only give information about one day in a person's life, and they are easily gamed.

It is worthwhile to utilize an admissions process that is based on more factors and on a variety of information that develops a fuller picture of the candidate, rather than one that assigns a high value to a test.

True, but FCPS took the most revealing of those other factors away, the teacher recs and course rigor. They replaced it with a nebulous portrait of a graduate test, which just screams subjectivity and discrimination. Also, when you're dealing with a small group of people, I agree that standardized tests aren't necessarily the best way to determine merit, but once you get to the point of thousands of people that need to be assessed, a more individualized assessment becomes impractical. Practicality and limited time and resources will dictate making preliminary cuts based on simple quantifiable factors in order to get it down to a manageable review size. Now, gpa is the only way to do this, yet that varies so widely based on teacher, school and course rigor. Those with lower gpa's will never have a shot, regardless of their intellect or potential.

You make a good point. It would be almost impossible to holistically review 5000+ applications in a meaningful and objective way.

Is this sarcasm? Many colleges holistically review more than 5000 applications every year. When that’s your job, that’s what you do.