How to make a kid feel better about the college options they have

[Anonymous]

I’m 50. I still remember pretty clearly the sting of getting that skinny envelope from my dream school in 1989. I ended up at a perfectly fine school that when I first went there felt like a bit of a consolation prize. And it first I didn’t like it very much. But a remarkable thing happened as I grew from being a still somewhat immature teenager to a young adult who understood How education works and I came to really value my time at the college I went to. My parents couldn’t do this for me I had to do it myself. And your daughter does sound immature still. That’s not an insult, that’s the reality of being 18. I have an 18-year-old daughter to, they can be dramatic, the whole “I did all that work for nothing” is something so many of them would say at this age. But a few years down the road she’s guaranteed to see things differently or at least you have learned something about herself in this whole process. So just give her the space to learn it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a big three, a couple decades ago. I kind of understand what you mean about working so hard. I got up at 6:30 in the morning and frequently did not go to bed until 1 o’clock at night. I worked all the time. I did sports, orchestra, drama, choir. I did community service. I got good grades. I want up going to a top 15 small liberal arts college, but not Amherst or Yale etc. Ultimately the sleep deprivation and constant stress did not seem worth it. I could’ve just focused on my grades and done one or two extracurriculars I actually enjoyed and gone to a school that was almost as good as the one I went to. I got waitlisted at three Ivies but did not get off the waitlist. My take away was to not do very many extracurriculars in college.

OP here: I have read through all the posts (and my own, which are mangled by my poor late-night grammar), but I think this one really encapsulates how she feels, for better or for worse. If she had known that she was going to wind-up at a school of this level, she feels she would have weighted her priorities differently and enjoyed life a bit more. As it stands, she's put everything into schoolwork and extracurrculars, and hasn't exactly reaped the benefits of this hard work. For what it's worth, I'd be perfectly happy for her to go to William and Mary, especially compared to these SLACs I don't know much about. Also, her counselor did class these schools as safeties for her stats, and it seems this was accurate in regard to her results at these schools.

But if she had done less than she might not have gotten in to William and Mary. Also, her classmates will have similar credentials to her. I don’t mean to be unkind but you really should have been preparing her for the lottery aspect (apart even from the unusual year) all along.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a big three, a couple decades ago. I kind of understand what you mean about working so hard. I got up at 6:30 in the morning and frequently did not go to bed until 1 o’clock at night. I worked all the time. I did sports, orchestra, drama, choir. I did community service. I got good grades. I want up going to a top 15 small liberal arts college, but not Amherst or Yale etc. Ultimately the sleep deprivation and constant stress did not seem worth it. I could’ve just focused on my grades and done one or two extracurriculars I actually enjoyed and gone to a school that was almost as good as the one I went to. I got waitlisted at three Ivies but did not get off the waitlist. My take away was to not do very many extracurriculars in college.

OP here: I have read through all the posts (and my own, which are mangled by my poor late-night grammar), but I think this one really encapsulates how she feels, for better or for worse. If she had known that she was going to wind-up at a school of this level, she feels she would have weighted her priorities differently and enjoyed life a bit more. As it stands, she's put everything into schoolwork and extracurrculars, and hasn't exactly reaped the benefits of this hard work. For what it's worth, I'd be perfectly happy for her to go to William and Mary, especially compared to these SLACs I don't know much about. Also, her counselor did class these schools as safeties for her stats, and it seems this was accurate in regard to her results at these schools.

It's too bad your daughter is unhappy, OP. For what it is worth, way back when I applied to three Ivies, Tufts, Wesleyan, Trinity, and some safeties. I was rejected at the Ivies and got in everywhere else and was DEVASTATED. Angry, sad, yada yada yada. I went to Tufts and had a great time all around. It took me about a week in college to get over my feelings of less-than. She'll join her new tribe and all will be well.

That said...we've got to stop doing this to our kids. They should work hard at their studies in high school, but also do the things that bring them joy. The top schools are a lottery - a lottery that only the tippy-top students get to enter. But still a lottery. So by all means work hard and shoot for the moon, enter the lottery and keep your fingers crossed. But parents should prepare their kids for the random nature of this, and the likelihood that they'll be going to their match or safety schools, and that those are GREAT options. So choose them carefully, and spend most of your emotional energy dreaming about those schools, not the crap shoot ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a big three, a couple decades ago. I kind of understand what you mean about working so hard. I got up at 6:30 in the morning and frequently did not go to bed until 1 o’clock at night. I worked all the time. I did sports, orchestra, drama, choir. I did community service. I got good grades. I want up going to a top 15 small liberal arts college, but not Amherst or Yale etc. Ultimately the sleep deprivation and constant stress did not seem worth it. I could’ve just focused on my grades and done one or two extracurriculars I actually enjoyed and gone to a school that was almost as good as the one I went to. I got waitlisted at three Ivies but did not get off the waitlist. My take away was to not do very many extracurriculars in college.

OP here: I have read through all the posts (and my own, which are mangled by my poor late-night grammar), but I think this one really encapsulates how she feels, for better or for worse. If she had known that she was going to wind-up at a school of this level, she feels she would have weighted her priorities differently and enjoyed life a bit more. As it stands, she's put everything into schoolwork and extracurrculars, and hasn't exactly reaped the benefits of this hard work. For what it's worth, I'd be perfectly happy for her to go to William and Mary, especially compared to these SLACs I don't know much about. Also, her counselor did class these schools as safeties for her stats, and it seems this was accurate in regard to her results at these schools.

Jesus Christ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m pretty patient with teen nonsense but in this case I would (as kindly as possible) tell her to get over herself.

+1
I second that! (mom of three teenagers)

+2 Mom of 4 teenagers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a big three, a couple decades ago. I kind of understand what you mean about working so hard. I got up at 6:30 in the morning and frequently did not go to bed until 1 o’clock at night. I worked all the time. I did sports, orchestra, drama, choir. I did community service. I got good grades. I want up going to a top 15 small liberal arts college, but not Amherst or Yale etc. Ultimately the sleep deprivation and constant stress did not seem worth it. I could’ve just focused on my grades and done one or two extracurriculars I actually enjoyed and gone to a school that was almost as good as the one I went to. I got waitlisted at three Ivies but did not get off the waitlist. My take away was to not do very many extracurriculars in college.

OP here: I have read through all the posts (and my own, which are mangled by my poor late-night grammar), but I think this one really encapsulates how she feels, for better or for worse. If she had known that she was going to wind-up at a school of this level, she feels she would have weighted her priorities differently and enjoyed life a bit more. As it stands, she's put everything into schoolwork and extracurrculars, and hasn't exactly reaped the benefits of this hard work. For what it's worth, I'd be perfectly happy for her to go to William and Mary, especially compared to these SLACs I don't know much about. Also, her counselor did class these schools as safeties for her stats, and it seems this was accurate in regard to her results at these schools.

Jesus Christ.

+100 OP it's becoming increasingly obvious that the problem is you. Your DC is mirroring your attitude, which is atrocious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a big three, a couple decades ago. I kind of understand what you mean about working so hard. I got up at 6:30 in the morning and frequently did not go to bed until 1 o’clock at night. I worked all the time. I did sports, orchestra, drama, choir. I did community service. I got good grades. I want up going to a top 15 small liberal arts college, but not Amherst or Yale etc. Ultimately the sleep deprivation and constant stress did not seem worth it. I could’ve just focused on my grades and done one or two extracurriculars I actually enjoyed and gone to a school that was almost as good as the one I went to. I got waitlisted at three Ivies but did not get off the waitlist. My take away was to not do very many extracurriculars in college.

OP here: I have read through all the posts (and my own, which are mangled by my poor late-night grammar), but I think this one really encapsulates how she feels, for better or for worse. If she had known that she was going to wind-up at a school of this level, she feels she would have weighted her priorities differently and enjoyed life a bit more. As it stands, she's put everything into schoolwork and extracurrculars, and hasn't exactly reaped the benefits of this hard work. For what it's worth, I'd be perfectly happy for her to go to William and Mary, especially compared to these SLACs I don't know much about. Also, her counselor did class these schools as safeties for her stats, and it seems this was accurate in regard to her results at these schools.

Jesus Christ.

Any sympathy I had for the OP went away with the second post, it is obvious they don't get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't make anyone, especially a teenager, feel something different from what they are actually feeling. Objectively as an adult these are fine choices with lots to offer and she has different parts of the country to pick from. I'm genuinely sorry she feels these schools are not for her. Maybe a visit will help if that's possible.

No, but as parents, you can guide them and set the tone for their thinking, which leads to their feelings, which in this case is big disappointment.

OP, I think this is a lesson that we as parents with kids who are underclassmen at Big 3/5 schools need to absorb. There is a lot of rah rah in the parenting in these schools. We are encouraged to believe from day one that our kids are somehow exceptional, first because they were admitted to these schools in the first place, and then because when they get there, they appear to excel. They start to grow in independence and accomplishment in ECs/ sports and we think that is so fabulous. We cheer them on, of course, and are so proud of them.

Their classmates set a high bar with expectations on which colleges are acceptable. The schools do nothing to tamp this down, even knowing that top schools are a long shot for most kids - but neither do we as parents, because of course we're thrilled to hear that our little one is being encouraged to apply to these top level reach schools. It all starts to feed on itself and other perfectly great schools become merely "targets" or "safety." We push them to "work so hard" and reward them for doing so.

I can see how this is a recipe for a predictably bad ending for many, when they get their first major lesson in the Real World: Other people (in this case, an admissions team) don't see you the way that you see yourself.

Good luck to your DD. I hope you help her turn around her thinking quickly. Believe me, I'm taking note of your experience.

Very thoughtful post, PP, and I like the idea that OP and her daughter’s situation might inspire someone else to try to help their kid have a broader world view and a healthier perspective on college admissions. It’s difficult to counter the influence of peers though, especially peers in a wealthy private school in a status conscious area like ours.

[Anonymous]

This is a rough point in the admission season. Let her mourn. I would try not to talk about the decisions yet to come. If the subject of college is going to be discussed, I'd be comparing the current excellent options, which would be her preference, looking at admitted student groups, housing options, etc.

Keep in mind (perhaps without discussing with her) that experts predict extensive waitlist use this year, so while it's hard to judge from where you sit now, a waitlist acceptance is possible, especially if you are full pay.

As has been explained above, the "safeties" she's fortunate to be accepted to were actually targets due to low acceptance rates. Move them to the target category.

You are not the only one to notice that this is a crazy year for college admission - it has been in the press, see e.g. Melissa Korn at WSJ - and there will be many a college counselor with unfortunate egg on their faces for inaccurate predictions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m pretty patient with teen nonsense but in this case I would (as kindly as possible) tell her to get over herself.

+1
I second that! (mom of three teenagers)

+2 Mom of 4 teenagers

+3 —mom of 5 teenagers. (Just kidding, but agree with the sentiment and love the phrase “teen nonsense”.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let her mope and just say she'll end up at the school she's meant to be. Her hard work in high school isn't for nothing. She can put the skills and traits she built up to use in high school at a place that is happy to have her and has all the resources she needs to succeed.

OP here: I've told her this- her response is that she hates this determinist attitude since she's worked too hard to throw her hands up and trust in fate.

I would tell her she doesn’t deserve anything in this life. Lots of people work very hard and are underpaid, work under horrible conditions, and are fired in a discriminatory manner. Good, hardworking people get shut out of universities, networks, promotions, etc. But they toil away.

She should have only applied to colleges that she was happy to attend. If she couldn’t find one that was a “safety,” that’s on her. It sounds harsh, but there’s no time like the present to learn this. There are happy, satisfied students at every single college in America. Will she be one of them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m 50. I still remember pretty clearly the sting of getting that skinny envelope from my dream school in 1989. I ended up at a perfectly fine school that when I first went there felt like a bit of a consolation prize. And it first I didn’t like it very much. But a remarkable thing happened as I grew from being a still somewhat immature teenager to a young adult who understood How education works and I came to really value my time at the college I went to. My parents couldn’t do this for me I had to do it myself. And your daughter does sound immature still. That’s not an insult, that’s the reality of being 18. I have an 18-year-old daughter to, they can be dramatic, the whole “I did all that work for nothing” is something so many of them would say at this age. But a few years down the road she’s guaranteed to see things differently or at least you have learned something about herself in this whole process. So just give her the space to learn it.

This. On virtually every DCUM thread. What the kids don’t realize is that the work they’ve done has shaped them into people likely to be very evolved and successful, and that’s the real reward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a rough point in the admission season. Let her mourn. I would try not to talk about the decisions yet to come. If the subject of college is going to be discussed, I'd be comparing the current excellent options, which would be her preference, looking at admitted student groups, housing options, etc.

Keep in mind (perhaps without discussing with her) that experts predict extensive waitlist use this year, so while it's hard to judge from where you sit now, a waitlist acceptance is possible, especially if you are full pay.

As has been explained above, the "safeties" she's fortunate to be accepted to were actually targets due to low acceptance rates. Move them to the target category.

You are not the only one to notice that this is a crazy year for college admission - it has been in the press, see e.g. Melissa Korn at WSJ - and there will be many a college counselor with unfortunate egg on their faces for inaccurate predictions.

This! Best piece of advice I ever picked up on DCUM was, when figuring out safeties vs. matches for my kid, if the acceptance rate is 30 percent or less, it’s not a safety. Even if your kid’s stats are over the 75th percentile for test scores and above the average GPA. Consider it a strong match, but not a safety.

Grinnell’s acceptance rate is 23 percent, Skidmore’s is 30. Even though W&M is in the upper 30s, everyone knows it’s harder for girls to get accepted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a rough point in the admission season. Let her mourn. I would try not to talk about the decisions yet to come. If the subject of college is going to be discussed, I'd be comparing the current excellent options, which would be her preference, looking at admitted student groups, housing options, etc.

Keep in mind (perhaps without discussing with her) that experts predict extensive waitlist use this year, so while it's hard to judge from where you sit now, a waitlist acceptance is possible, especially if you are full pay.

As has been explained above, the "safeties" she's fortunate to be accepted to were actually targets due to low acceptance rates. Move them to the target category.

You are not the only one to notice that this is a crazy year for college admission - it has been in the press, see e.g. Melissa Korn at WSJ - and there will be many a college counselor with unfortunate egg on their faces for inaccurate predictions.

This! Best piece of advice I ever picked up on DCUM was, when figuring out safeties vs. matches for my kid, if the acceptance rate is 30 percent or less, it’s not a safety. Even if your kid’s stats are over the 75th percentile for test scores and above the average GPA. Consider it a strong match, but not a safety.

Grinnell’s acceptance rate is 23 percent, Skidmore’s is 30. Even though W&M is in the upper 30s, everyone knows it’s harder for girls to get accepted.

And she was admitted as a Monroe Scholar which is top 10% of all applicants, hardly something to be disappointed with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a big three, a couple decades ago. I kind of understand what you mean about working so hard. I got up at 6:30 in the morning and frequently did not go to bed until 1 o’clock at night. I worked all the time. I did sports, orchestra, drama, choir. I did community service. I got good grades. I want up going to a top 15 small liberal arts college, but not Amherst or Yale etc. Ultimately the sleep deprivation and constant stress did not seem worth it. I could’ve just focused on my grades and done one or two extracurriculars I actually enjoyed and gone to a school that was almost as good as the one I went to. I got waitlisted at three Ivies but did not get off the waitlist. My take away was to not do very many extracurriculars in college.

OP here: I have read through all the posts (and my own, which are mangled by my poor late-night grammar), but I think this one really encapsulates how she feels, for better or for worse. If she had known that she was going to wind-up at a school of this level, she feels she would have weighted her priorities differently and enjoyed life a bit more. As it stands, she's put everything into schoolwork and extracurrculars, and hasn't exactly reaped the benefits of this hard work. For what it's worth, I'd be perfectly happy for her to go to William and Mary, especially compared to these SLACs I don't know much about. Also, her counselor did class these schools as safeties for her stats, and it seems this was accurate in regard to her results at these schools.

OP, in what regard do you believe that she has not "reaped the benefits of this hard work"?

What in your view *are* the benefits of the hard work?

FWIW, had she "enjoyed life a bit more" and not worked as hard, and earned lower grades, she may well not have had W&M or Grinnell as options.