No CogAT testing in FCPS AAP Screening this year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It always amazes me how some parents think it is the end all be all. Having had one in AAP and one not, it really is not all that you would think it was cracked up to be. I think 5 th grade was the biggest difference(some more in depth projects). Everything else was not that different. Except for math. And then in MS(at least at Longfellow) Math is the only difference. My kids were on the same team and, except for math, had the exact same assignments and projects. for Language Arts, SS and science. A few papers were due a few days ahead in AAP but that was it. Maybe because all classes at that school are honors anyways….

It makes a huge difference for those of us in schools with high ESOL and FARMS populations where your example is not the case, but you would not understand that.

Oh no. Your kids will have to go to school with brown kids for one more year.

What’s your base school? Serious question.

Better question: why do you think you and your kids are better than the families at your base school to the extent you rely on AAP as an escape ?

PP here. I don't. Two of my kids are at the base school (upper ES). There's no LLIV, a weak Level III program, and no differentiation in math until 5th grade. We supplement at home and it's been fine. However, if you are at a base school with robust Level III programs, a lot of differentiation, and 20% of the class is not at least one grade level behind, you are not really in a position to question why some families prefer AAP.

So again, what is your base school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It always amazes me how some parents think it is the end all be all. Having had one in AAP and one not, it really is not all that you would think it was cracked up to be. I think 5 th grade was the biggest difference(some more in depth projects). Everything else was not that different. Except for math. And then in MS(at least at Longfellow) Math is the only difference. My kids were on the same team and, except for math, had the exact same assignments and projects. for Language Arts, SS and science. A few papers were due a few days ahead in AAP but that was it. Maybe because all classes at that school are honors anyways….

It makes a huge difference for those of us in schools with high ESOL and FARMS populations where your example is not the case, but you would not understand that.

Oh no. Your kids will have to go to school with brown kids for one more year.

What’s your base school? Serious question.

Better question: why do you think you and your kids are better than the families at your base school to the extent you rely on AAP as an escape ?

It is fair for parents to be worried that their kid is not being challenged when a Teacher is focused on bringing other kids up to grade level. That does not mean that the kids below grade level are not smart or capable but that they probably have not had the same opportunities that kids with better off parents have or kids whose parents are native English speakers.

Parents want the best education they can get for their kids. In schools were there is a higher percentage of kids below grade level, it is harder for kids who are above grade level to get an education that challenges them. In FCPS, parents of the at grade level or above grade level that means AAP where the course material is aimed to above grade level kids. I have known people who have moved after Kindergarten at a FARMs school because it was clear that their child was not going to get much attention since the child was above grade level or on grade level.

Property is expensive in this area so there are a good number of middle class families that are buying houses where the in boundary school is Title 1. It is not surprising to me that those parents are looking for alternatives, whether that is language immersion, magnet schools, or AAP.

NP. Pretty much this. AAP is our only hope any an appropriate education for our kid. Unfortunately it’s become a target and there are a lot of misunderstandings and ill-will about it within the school administration. If it slides downhill much faster we are moving somewhere cheaper so that we can afford to all of the extra supplementation and time we have to spend on educating our kid (see the thread about spelling for an example). That’s fine, if that’s what the county wants. Tired of the the free riding-off of educated middle class parents that just wanted a decent public education for their kids and made sacrifices to get it.

PP Poster who posted the "It is fair post."

AAP is being targeted because it is too easy to "buy" your way in and is biased towards families who have the money, time, and education to provide enrichment opportunities to kids. Whether it is families sending kids to test centers to practice for the NNAT and CogAT, or families that can send their kids to tutoring centers like Kumon, or families that have the money and access to robotics/chess/coding club type things, AAP is biased towards those families.

The program needs to be adjusted so that it can identify all the kids who would benefit from a faster class pace, that includes the kids who don't score well on the NNAT or CogAT because they are from families were there have been fewer opportunities for at home enrichment or paid enrichment. The use of parent referrals, appeals, and WISC scores highly benefits the Middle to Upper Middle Class families.

Every school should have a full time AART. Every school should have weekly Level III pullouts. Every school should have advanced math that starts in third. Every school should have a local level IV option that serves the top 10% of the kids at that school. The disparity across the county is alarming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It always amazes me how some parents think it is the end all be all. Having had one in AAP and one not, it really is not all that you would think it was cracked up to be. I think 5 th grade was the biggest difference(some more in depth projects). Everything else was not that different. Except for math. And then in MS(at least at Longfellow) Math is the only difference. My kids were on the same team and, except for math, had the exact same assignments and projects. for Language Arts, SS and science. A few papers were due a few days ahead in AAP but that was it. Maybe because all classes at that school are honors anyways….

It makes a huge difference for those of us in schools with high ESOL and FARMS populations where your example is not the case, but you would not understand that.

Oh no. Your kids will have to go to school with brown kids for one more year.

What’s your base school? Serious question.

Better question: why do you think you and your kids are better than the families at your base school to the extent you rely on AAP as an escape ?

It is fair for parents to be worried that their kid is not being challenged when a Teacher is focused on bringing other kids up to grade level. That does not mean that the kids below grade level are not smart or capable but that they probably have not had the same opportunities that kids with better off parents have or kids whose parents are native English speakers.

Parents want the best education they can get for their kids. In schools were there is a higher percentage of kids below grade level, it is harder for kids who are above grade level to get an education that challenges them. In FCPS, parents of the at grade level or above grade level that means AAP where the course material is aimed to above grade level kids. I have known people who have moved after Kindergarten at a FARMs school because it was clear that their child was not going to get much attention since the child was above grade level or on grade level.

Property is expensive in this area so there are a good number of middle class families that are buying houses where the in boundary school is Title 1. It is not surprising to me that those parents are looking for alternatives, whether that is language immersion, magnet schools, or AAP.

NP. Pretty much this. AAP is our only hope any an appropriate education for our kid. Unfortunately it’s become a target and there are a lot of misunderstandings and ill-will about it within the school administration. If it slides downhill much faster we are moving somewhere cheaper so that we can afford to all of the extra supplementation and time we have to spend on educating our kid (see the thread about spelling for an example). That’s fine, if that’s what the county wants. Tired of the the free riding-off of educated middle class parents that just wanted a decent public education for their kids and made sacrifices to get it.

PP Poster who posted the "It is fair post."

AAP is being targeted because it is too easy to "buy" your way in and is biased towards families who have the money, time, and education to provide enrichment opportunities to kids. Whether it is families sending kids to test centers to practice for the NNAT and CogAT, or families that can send their kids to tutoring centers like Kumon, or families that have the money and access to robotics/chess/coding club type things, AAP is biased towards those families.

The program needs to be adjusted so that it can identify all the kids who would benefit from a faster class pace, that includes the kids who don't score well on the NNAT or CogAT because they are from families were there have been fewer opportunities for at home enrichment or paid enrichment. The use of parent referrals, appeals, and WISC scores highly benefits the Middle to Upper Middle Class families.

Every school should have a full time AART. Every school should have weekly Level III pullouts. Every school should have advanced math that starts in third. Every school should have a local level IV option that serves the top 10% of the kids at that school. The disparity across the county is alarming.

I don’t agree about local resources being the solution at all. Not unless we completely redraw our boundaries and every elementary school is roughly balanced the same way. Centers are very important for bringing kids from different neighborhoods together. I hate the push away from them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It always amazes me how some parents think it is the end all be all. Having had one in AAP and one not, it really is not all that you would think it was cracked up to be. I think 5 th grade was the biggest difference(some more in depth projects). Everything else was not that different. Except for math. And then in MS(at least at Longfellow) Math is the only difference. My kids were on the same team and, except for math, had the exact same assignments and projects. for Language Arts, SS and science. A few papers were due a few days ahead in AAP but that was it. Maybe because all classes at that school are honors anyways….

It makes a huge difference for those of us in schools with high ESOL and FARMS populations where your example is not the case, but you would not understand that.

Oh no. Your kids will have to go to school with brown kids for one more year.

What’s your base school? Serious question.

Better question: why do you think you and your kids are better than the families at your base school to the extent you rely on AAP as an escape ?

PP here. I don't. Two of my kids are at the base school (upper ES). There's no LLIV, a weak Level III program, and no differentiation in math until 5th grade. We supplement at home and it's been fine. However, if you are at a base school with robust Level III programs, a lot of differentiation, and 20% of the class is not at least one grade level behind, you are not really in a position to question why some families prefer AAP.

So again, what is your base school?

I believe the original poster for this "it always amazes me" already stated in this thread that the school was Timberlane and had kid at center and not at center. But I'm not sure who you are asking to "name your school" as there are 5 different postings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So we now have to go to GMU? How ridiculous. My daughter won’t be in the pool with her crummy NNAT score. But I bet she would do well on the CogAT. This is completely unfair.

My DS's NNAT is also low. Will they weigh other data points more strongly such as iready? I wonder how this will work.

We already have a WISC scheduled this fall as part of an evaluation, which we could use. But that's not true for most families.

This will be a good year for them to make the switch to AAP admissions being based on equity instead of achievement.

With no tests except for the unstable nnat, fcpc can just place on teacher recommendation and equity formulas.

Ahahaha equity, a word that means trash

Says a white person who is mad equity means that they might have to share some of the pie

I don't know if you've noticed this, but the most significantly over-represented demographic in AAP isn't white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AAP in FCPS is dead.

Elections have consequences. This is what electing only Ds gets you.

Thank god, AAP is stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It always amazes me how some parents think it is the end all be all. Having had one in AAP and one not, it really is not all that you would think it was cracked up to be. I think 5 th grade was the biggest difference(some more in depth projects). Everything else was not that different. Except for math. And then in MS(at least at Longfellow) Math is the only difference. My kids were on the same team and, except for math, had the exact same assignments and projects. for Language Arts, SS and science. A few papers were due a few days ahead in AAP but that was it. Maybe because all classes at that school are honors anyways….

It makes a huge difference for those of us in schools with high ESOL and FARMS populations where your example is not the case, but you would not understand that.

Oh no. Your kids will have to go to school with brown kids for one more year.

You're quoting me and my kid IS a brown kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So we now have to go to GMU? How ridiculous. My daughter won’t be in the pool with her crummy NNAT score. But I bet she would do well on the CogAT. This is completely unfair.

My DS's NNAT is also low. Will they weigh other data points more strongly such as iready? I wonder how this will work.

We already have a WISC scheduled this fall as part of an evaluation, which we could use. But that's not true for most families.

The equity report showed that NNAT was almost irrelevant, and GBRS was over 4 times as important as CogAT scores for selection. This year, the key will be having your child fully participate in the DL and go above and beyond with the DL homework.

So an imperfect teacher’s subjective impression of the child is 4(!!) times as important as an objective test developed after much research?
Riiight, because there is never any discrepancies among teachers in how generously they grade or evaluate and the teacher is perfectly objective evaluating the kids in their class.
Of course UMC kids have the testing advantage over the poor kids who might have potential for AAP but don't get the same support from parents. But how many parents are supplementing a 7 year old with tutoring or similar to get into AAP? We are not taking TJ admissions. Most kids don't get all that tutoring extra for AAP. Excluding the genius types or the very slim minority, most kids who are in pool already will show signs of being smart, academic, advanced for their grade, what not. You need test scores to be able to better distinguish among that similar crowd. I would even support creating a generous sized quotas to put in equity kids based on family income, but for goodness sake don't put such an unreasonable weight on the GRBS. So foolish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So we now have to go to GMU? How ridiculous. My daughter won’t be in the pool with her crummy NNAT score. But I bet she would do well on the CogAT. This is completely unfair.

My DS's NNAT is also low. Will they weigh other data points more strongly such as iready? I wonder how this will work.

We already have a WISC scheduled this fall as part of an evaluation, which we could use. But that's not true for most families.

The equity report showed that NNAT was almost irrelevant, and GBRS was over 4 times as important as CogAT scores for selection. This year, the key will be having your child fully participate in the DL and go above and beyond with the DL homework.

So an imperfect teacher’s subjective impression of the child is 4(!!) times as important as an objective test developed after much research?
Riiight, because there is never any discrepancies among teachers in how generously they grade or evaluate and the teacher is perfectly objective evaluating the kids in their class.
Of course UMC kids have the testing advantage over the poor kids who might have potential for AAP but don't get the same support from parents. But how many parents are supplementing a 7 year old with tutoring or similar to get into AAP? We are not taking TJ admissions. Most kids don't get all that tutoring extra for AAP. Excluding the genius types or the very slim minority, most kids who are in pool already will show signs of being smart, academic, advanced for their grade, what not. You need test scores to be able to better distinguish among that similar crowd. I would even support creating a generous sized quotas to put in equity kids based on family income, but for goodness sake don't put such an unreasonable weight on the GRBS. So foolish.

Honestly there is no tutoring to be done prior to Level IV unless your child is a complete idiot. The math and school work they do is SO rudimentary, like "you have five apples, three get taken away," or "here's a clock, what time is it?" Tutoring at that age is nothing but a sham cash grab by "education companies." There is basically no way to tutor a child into a great IQ score. It's a time constrained test with abstract problems (talking about NNAT here) that are slightly different on every test. Sure you can teach a kid that the triangle rotates left by 1/2 turn in each picture, but then s/he gets the actual NNAT and the triangle is now a square with dots moving around inside of it. People simply to won't to accept the fact that these tests are a measure of cognitive ability that can't be trained. The "waaaaaah tutoring" cryers just have kids that aren't every smart.

[Anonymous]

The Curie school has five branches and offers NNAT and CogAT Prep that run $850-$950 dollars. They also run tutoring for K-6 Math and Science. They wouldn't run these classes if they were not profitable. And they are but one tutoring center. There is no way of knowing how many people are sending kids to these types of centers but there are more than enough options out there that make me think it is a decent percentage of the population. Grocery stores have NNAT and CogAT prep books for sale, I have seen them at multiple H Mart and Lotte locations.

So yes, there is a good amount of prepping. This is not exactly hidden.

It is theorized that it is one of the reasons that the test scores have become less important in the process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So we now have to go to GMU? How ridiculous. My daughter won’t be in the pool with her crummy NNAT score. But I bet she would do well on the CogAT. This is completely unfair.

My DS's NNAT is also low. Will they weigh other data points more strongly such as iready? I wonder how this will work.

We already have a WISC scheduled this fall as part of an evaluation, which we could use. But that's not true for most families.

The equity report showed that NNAT was almost irrelevant, and GBRS was over 4 times as important as CogAT scores for selection. This year, the key will be having your child fully participate in the DL and go above and beyond with the DL homework.

So an imperfect teacher’s subjective impression of the child is 4(!!) times as important as an objective test developed after much research?
Riiight, because there is never any discrepancies among teachers in how generously they grade or evaluate and the teacher is perfectly objective evaluating the kids in their class.
Of course UMC kids have the testing advantage over the poor kids who might have potential for AAP but don't get the same support from parents. But how many parents are supplementing a 7 year old with tutoring or similar to get into AAP? We are not taking TJ admissions. Most kids don't get all that tutoring extra for AAP. Excluding the genius types or the very slim minority, most kids who are in pool already will show signs of being smart, academic, advanced for their grade, what not. You need test scores to be able to better distinguish among that similar crowd. I would even support creating a generous sized quotas to put in equity kids based on family income, but for goodness sake don't put such an unreasonable weight on the GRBS. So foolish.

Honestly there is no tutoring to be done prior to Level IV unless your child is a complete idiot. The math and school work they do is SO rudimentary, like "you have five apples, three get taken away," or "here's a clock, what time is it?" Tutoring at that age is nothing but a sham cash grab by "education companies." There is basically no way to tutor a child into a great IQ score. It's a time constrained test with abstract problems (talking about NNAT here) that are slightly different on every test. Sure you can teach a kid that the triangle rotates left by 1/2 turn in each picture, but then s/he gets the actual NNAT and the triangle is now a square with dots moving around inside of it. People simply to won't to accept the fact that these tests are a measure of cognitive ability that can't be trained. The "waaaaaah tutoring" cryers just have kids that aren't every smart.

LOL My kid was accepted into AAP with no tutoring or test prep. We do a fair amount of supplementing at home (logic puzzles, strategic games, STEM extracurriculars) and I am aware that helped our child. I am more amazed that parents are willing to send their kids for tutoring in Kindergarten. But that is me. Different strokes for different folks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Curie school has five branches and offers NNAT and CogAT Prep that run $850-$950 dollars. They also run tutoring for K-6 Math and Science. They wouldn't run these classes if they were not profitable. And they are but one tutoring center. There is no way of knowing how many people are sending kids to these types of centers but there are more than enough options out there that make me think it is a decent percentage of the population. Grocery stores have NNAT and CogAT prep books for sale, I have seen them at multiple H Mart and Lotte locations.

So yes, there is a good amount of prepping. This is not exactly hidden.

It is theorized that it is one of the reasons that the test scores have become less important in the process.

Profitable does not equal effective

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Curie school has five branches and offers NNAT and CogAT Prep that run $850-$950 dollars. They also run tutoring for K-6 Math and Science. They wouldn't run these classes if they were not profitable. And they are but one tutoring center. There is no way of knowing how many people are sending kids to these types of centers but there are more than enough options out there that make me think it is a decent percentage of the population. Grocery stores have NNAT and CogAT prep books for sale, I have seen them at multiple H Mart and Lotte locations.

So yes, there is a good amount of prepping. This is not exactly hidden.

It is theorized that it is one of the reasons that the test scores have become less important in the process.

Profitable does not equal effective

Effective enough that parents are willing to spend the money. If there were not enough kids being accepted into AAP or TJ, parents would stop using these centers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Curie school has five branches and offers NNAT and CogAT Prep that run $850-$950 dollars. They also run tutoring for K-6 Math and Science. They wouldn't run these classes if they were not profitable. And they are but one tutoring center. There is no way of knowing how many people are sending kids to these types of centers but there are more than enough options out there that make me think it is a decent percentage of the population. Grocery stores have NNAT and CogAT prep books for sale, I have seen them at multiple H Mart and Lotte locations.

So yes, there is a good amount of prepping. This is not exactly hidden.

It is theorized that it is one of the reasons that the test scores have become less important in the process.

Profitable does not equal effective

Effective enough that parents are willing to spend the money. If there were not enough kids being accepted into AAP or TJ, parents would stop using these centers.

No they wouldn't. You realize that research shows all that baby einstein crap and educational toys do nothing to improve the intelligence of toddlers and young children and yet parents spend tons of money on those toys too, right? Did you also realize that numerous research studies have been unable to show a positive effect of top quality preschools for more than a year or two after attendance (in other words, if your kid goes to a cadillac preschool, any minor positive effects have worn off by 1-2 years later)? I know this because I spent years doing marketing for an early childhood education company. So please don't confuse parents spending money on things with the idea that these things have a benefit. People are incredibly bad at discerning cause and effect and disentangling it from the passage of time, especially when there sample size consists of their one or two children in its entirety.

[Anonymous]

Seems like the CogAT is still on in Arlington.