SAHMs of children entering school age

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree the juggle is tough once schools starts but ONLY if you have an inflexible job.

Pre COVID I WFH at least 2x and often 3 days a week which was helpful. They are in school/commuting on the bus or whatever for like 36 hours so that is when I'd get most of my work done. They did aftercare 2x a week which they liked - stayed at school and the after care program had clubs, activities etc.

I'd usually be able to come home by 5 or so on days I did go in. But yes, flex is key. The one silver lining of COVID is I'll likely never go into an office again, or at least not for years. My company was already WFH friendly and now they are totally rethinking space. So, I'd encourage SAHMs who want to look to look - you'll probably be in a very WFH friendly job.

Second this. I've never been SAHM but I'm in the office just once a week and I have lots of help (nanny, then reliable babysitter, weekly cleaning service, lawn service etc.) My job is strictly 40 hours, very well paid, and low stress. It's very manageable. My H does most of the sports stuff with the kids, unless they're overlapping.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as we can afford it, I’m never going back.

It’s just easy. Yes, it’s afforded DH many more work opportunities and advancements, and more money. I’m OK with that. You have to be OK with that. I had a dream job I worked my ass off achieving, and some days I miss it, but never more than I love the this lifestyle.

Echoing others, logistically it just makes sense. We don’t ever worry about anything like sick days or snow days, summer vacations or... remote learning. Also, yes, you’ll be so surprised how the time gets away from you. Suddenly it’s 3:30 and you have to leave to get the kids from school in 15 minutes. I definitely keep busy and I’m never bored, but I also enjoy my own company. Introvert here!

Ugh, women like this are setting society back by decades.

No, women like this are not setting society back. Women should get the choice. I grew up in a family where my parents were really pissed when I quit. My mom was retired but hated being a mom and wouldn't help with child care (after saying she would) and my child care feel through right before I went back to work and she wouldn't help for a few weeks so I could go back. She resented me and still does for not going back but because I was home it allowed my husband to take better jobs every few years and work his way up. I could handle all the things at home and help his family when his mom needed help and us not worry. Women should have the choice if they can financially afford it. My mom hated being a mom and doing the day to day caretaking. I love it and see how it benefits my kids and husband but more importantly me. I was miserable working. I can easily keep myself busy and am far busier now than working as my focus is different. I want to raise my kids and not be raised by nannies and day care like I was.

The problem with your entire diatribe is that you confine this to women. All you talk about is you and your mom. What about your dad? What about your DH. Ask yourself why men are not asked to consider what’s best for their children when they make choices about their careers?

Sounds like you have issues wIth your mom specific to you and not to an argument about women’s advancement.

And how many men are miserable working? Quite a few I’d guess. Why do they have automatically have keep slogging?

I was just about to say the same thing! WOMEN should have the choice to quit? NOPE. EVERYONE should have the choice to quit. It's so disturbing that you women who write stuff like this don't realize how awful it is. You're teaching men that their jobs are more important, which in turn makes those men, who run companies, treat women as if they don't matter as much. I have no chip on my shoulder - I've never felt held back/undervalued/underpaid at work, I've been able to be home when I wanted to be, and I have an incredibly supportive husband, but it's just so sad to read things like this in 2020.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as we can afford it, I’m never going back.

It’s just easy. Yes, it’s afforded DH many more work opportunities and advancements, and more money. I’m OK with that. You have to be OK with that. I had a dream job I worked my ass off achieving, and some days I miss it, but never more than I love the this lifestyle.

Echoing others, logistically it just makes sense. We don’t ever worry about anything like sick days or snow days, summer vacations or... remote learning. Also, yes, you’ll be so surprised how the time gets away from you. Suddenly it’s 3:30 and you have to leave to get the kids from school in 15 minutes. I definitely keep busy and I’m never bored, but I also enjoy my own company. Introvert here!

Ugh, women like this are setting society back by decades.

How so? If anything, I should be helping you. I’m not taking that promotion you’re seeking. How am I holding you back? How am I holding any woman back? Explain this to me, please, how MY not working is holding YOU back from a better, more high-paying, more satisfying job. I’m waiting.

You are so obtuse it's shocking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as we can afford it, I’m never going back.

It’s just easy. Yes, it’s afforded DH many more work opportunities and advancements, and more money. I’m OK with that. You have to be OK with that. I had a dream job I worked my ass off achieving, and some days I miss it, but never more than I love the this lifestyle.

Echoing others, logistically it just makes sense. We don’t ever worry about anything like sick days or snow days, summer vacations or... remote learning. Also, yes, you’ll be so surprised how the time gets away from you. Suddenly it’s 3:30 and you have to leave to get the kids from school in 15 minutes. I definitely keep busy and I’m never bored, but I also enjoy my own company. Introvert here!

Ugh, women like this are setting society back by decades.

No, women like this are not setting society back. Women should get the choice. I grew up in a family where my parents were really pissed when I quit. My mom was retired but hated being a mom and wouldn't help with child care (after saying she would) and my child care feel through right before I went back to work and she wouldn't help for a few weeks so I could go back. She resented me and still does for not going back but because I was home it allowed my husband to take better jobs every few years and work his way up. I could handle all the things at home and help his family when his mom needed help and us not worry. Women should have the choice if they can financially afford it. My mom hated being a mom and doing the day to day caretaking. I love it and see how it benefits my kids and husband but more importantly me. I was miserable working. I can easily keep myself busy and am far busier now than working as my focus is different. I want to raise my kids and not be raised by nannies and day care like I was.

The problem with your entire diatribe is that you confine this to women. All you talk about is you and your mom. What about your dad? What about your DH. Ask yourself why men are not asked to consider what’s best for their children when they make choices about their careers?

Sounds like you have issues wIth your mom specific to you and not to an argument about women’s advancement.

And how many men are miserable working? Quite a few I’d guess. Why do they have automatically have keep slogging?

Both of my parents were the same way and both selfish but my Dad more than my Mom. My husband would love to stop working but he has higher income earning potential. My husband has always made us the priority. If I had wanted to work and we needed him to stay home, he would have gladly done it and is very good at it. My husband does a lot and I have no complaints. If your husband doesn't support you, then you have a spouse issue, not a societal issue just like I had a parent issue. Women's advancement as well as Man's should be about many factors and choices.

Nothing wrong with my spouse. These are societal issues.

Can we both agree that “society” has a lot of issues and isn’t necessarily that great?
I don’t see the point of spending my life trying to conform with society in general. It makes more sense to me to do what is right for my friends and family and people I meet than it is to fully conform and embrace the values of a society that I think we can all agree has issues.

Sigh. So you're saying that it's best for you to pay attention only to the decisions that affect you and your immediate family and friends? Do you not appreciate how myopic and troubling this position is? Do you really not see it? Since you say society isn't great you've decided that, rather than trying to do something about that, you'd rather just stick your head in the sand and do what's best for you. That is the heart and soul of the problem our country has right now, and it goes beyond women. It's such a disappointment that people like you are happy to just make sure the life they lead is happy and ignore everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was working when my kids were in daycare... came home when they were all in school. I found the demands of having school-age kids (homework, school closures, activities) to be more demanding and less out-source-able than the demands of having younger kids.

Serious question from someone with younger kids...how does that work. Once they are at school 6-7 hours a day, how is that busier. Isn't all that stuff concentrated into after school (late afternoon, evening, weekends)? I was looking forward to having more energy, not less.

She’s making it up. It’s way easier once they go to school and you have so much more free time. Some women need to justify themselves not working...

This is PP above. I’m not making it up. I was working a demanding job (50 hours a week when my eldest was in 2nd grade and it all fell apart. She started getting stress stomach aches at school, I was being called daily by the nurse’s office. If I put her in aftercare, the homework wasn’t get done and we’d be up until 9 getting it all done plus school projects every weekend. Even with a helpful husband it was madness. We realized we either needed a nanny who was a decent teacher or a parent at home (at least half time). I ended up resigning and took a very part-time job.

Yep,same here, I posted my story above. Pp is not interested in facts or experiences, and just has a chip on their shoulder.

If you can afford individual high quality care and to outsource a hell of a lot, it is easier to work. If you can't outsource a lot and you have to do group care then my advice is to be sure they go to a no-homework school and limit their evening activities. You can't pick your kid but you can make these choices and they will help.

Exactly. In our case, my intuition was that my eldest needed *me* involved, and that even the highest quality care wasn't going to work. There are times when a kid seriously just needs their parent. Maybe my kids are just high maintenance, but there it is. I do agree that working is easier if you can find the right care/school situation.

So why wasn't your husband there for your kid? Why didn't he step back at his job so you could both continue to work and both be there for your kid? I think it's important for my kids to get BOTH their parents, which is my husband and I both get them ready for school, take them to or pick them up from school, do after school activities with them, cook for them, play with them, put them to bed, etc. There is nothing I do that he doesn't, and vice versa (except I have a better singing voice so I'm usually in charge of lullabies). Open your eyes, stop being the parent who has to do everything, and start making society allow BOTH parents to be there for their kids. Instead, what you're doing is folding, which allows your husband's employer to ask more of him and leave behind any person (male or female) who can't keep up. It's a terrible situation we are in and you are making it worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as we can afford it, I’m never going back.

It’s just easy. Yes, it’s afforded DH many more work opportunities and advancements, and more money. I’m OK with that. You have to be OK with that. I had a dream job I worked my ass off achieving, and some days I miss it, but never more than I love the this lifestyle.

Echoing others, logistically it just makes sense. We don’t ever worry about anything like sick days or snow days, summer vacations or... remote learning. Also, yes, you’ll be so surprised how the time gets away from you. Suddenly it’s 3:30 and you have to leave to get the kids from school in 15 minutes. I definitely keep busy and I’m never bored, but I also enjoy my own company. Introvert here!

Ugh, women like this are setting society back by decades.

No, women like this are not setting society back. Women should get the choice. I grew up in a family where my parents were really pissed when I quit. My mom was retired but hated being a mom and wouldn't help with child care (after saying she would) and my child care feel through right before I went back to work and she wouldn't help for a few weeks so I could go back. She resented me and still does for not going back but because I was home it allowed my husband to take better jobs every few years and work his way up. I could handle all the things at home and help his family when his mom needed help and us not worry. Women should have the choice if they can financially afford it. My mom hated being a mom and doing the day to day caretaking. I love it and see how it benefits my kids and husband but more importantly me. I was miserable working. I can easily keep myself busy and am far busier now than working as my focus is different. I want to raise my kids and not be raised by nannies and day care like I was.

The problem with your entire diatribe is that you confine this to women. All you talk about is you and your mom. What about your dad? What about your DH. Ask yourself why men are not asked to consider what’s best for their children when they make choices about their careers?

Sounds like you have issues wIth your mom specific to you and not to an argument about women’s advancement.

And how many men are miserable working? Quite a few I’d guess. Why do they have automatically have keep slogging?

Both of my parents were the same way and both selfish but my Dad more than my Mom. My husband would love to stop working but he has higher income earning potential. My husband has always made us the priority. If I had wanted to work and we needed him to stay home, he would have gladly done it and is very good at it. My husband does a lot and I have no complaints. If your husband doesn't support you, then you have a spouse issue, not a societal issue just like I had a parent issue. Women's advancement as well as Man's should be about many factors and choices.

Nothing wrong with my spouse. These are societal issues.

Can we both agree that “society” has a lot of issues and isn’t necessarily that great?
I don’t see the point of spending my life trying to conform with society in general. It makes more sense to me to do what is right for my friends and family and people I meet than it is to fully conform and embrace the values of a society that I think we can all agree has issues.

If your husband cannot be an equal partner and help with your kids, something is very wrong with your husband. If you both cannot make it work, something is wrong with both of you. I don't worry at all if something happens to me as my husband can handle it all.

This is ridiculous. My husband can’t help with childcare at all during the week. He is gone by 6am and comes home by 10pm. We have been happily married a long time and this arrangement suits us just fine. He makes excellent money, we have great health benefits/pension, and he absolutely loves his job. He handles the bills, I handle the kids and house. I have a degree but never found any job I like as much as hanging out with my kids. I’m an introvert who likes to cook, clean, do yard work, and do maintenance around the house. Instead of making blanket statements about all partnerships, we should focus on supporting the decisions of all types of parents, those who choose to stay at home and those who choose to work. It’s not a one size fits all situation.

Your poor children. They have a weekend dad, at best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as we can afford it, I’m never going back.

It’s just easy. Yes, it’s afforded DH many more work opportunities and advancements, and more money. I’m OK with that. You have to be OK with that. I had a dream job I worked my ass off achieving, and some days I miss it, but never more than I love the this lifestyle.

Echoing others, logistically it just makes sense. We don’t ever worry about anything like sick days or snow days, summer vacations or... remote learning. Also, yes, you’ll be so surprised how the time gets away from you. Suddenly it’s 3:30 and you have to leave to get the kids from school in 15 minutes. I definitely keep busy and I’m never bored, but I also enjoy my own company. Introvert here!

Ugh, women like this are setting society back by decades.

How so? If anything, I should be helping you. I’m not taking that promotion you’re seeking. How am I holding you back? How am I holding any woman back? Explain this to me, please, how MY not working is holding YOU back from a better, more high-paying, more satisfying job. I’m waiting.

Actually by you not working you are freeing up that position for someone else so you are helping them with less competition.

Wrong. By not working and allowing her DH to be a workaholic, she is perpetuating the idea that one needs to be a workaholic with a SAHW to climb up the ladder. Completely antithetical to the family-friendly workplaces society should be striving for.

My husband isn't a workaholic at all and has a very flexible work schedule. We had lunch dates pre-covid and he regularly adjusted his schedule to attend school events during the day and drove activities most nights.

You can’t have it both ways. Didn’t you write that you quitting and taking on the household/childcare work afforded your husband career advancement opportunities? Which means that he is perpetuating the idea in his workplace that movers-and-shakers need to have SAHWs. The junior folks will observe. I know I personally find it heartening that the people up my chain of command, up to the head of the division, all have working spouses. It makes them more reasonable because they “get it” since there’s no housewife at home taking care of everything and they actually have responsibilities at home.

I quit as my child care fell through and we couldn't afford a nanny. I stayed out because my child had SN and later on I had to take care of my MIL. He had higher earning potential than I did and over the years has replaced my salary. I could never do that in the field I was in. It was 100% my choice. My husband offered it to me but I kept refusing as my parents would be furious, which they were and it ended our relationship (which I knew and was fine with). My husband does a lot. My husband would have had the same career opportunities either way but with his current job he might not have been able to travel the few weeks a year but he's always been able to turn them down or cancel if there was an issue (he canceled one when I got sick and one when his mom was at the end of life and he spent the entire two weeks working from her nursing home room to be there to care for her). Life is about choices. Nothing wrong with working or staying home and you do what's best for you and your family. Stop blaming men. You married a horrible spouse but many of us didn't. If I wanted a career, my husband would have gladly stayed home and been very good at it.

You sound really defensive. And it’s odd that quitting would cause your parents to disown you. Methinks there’s more to the story.

Also, a husband is not a “horrible spouse” just because his wife works, FYI.

They didn't disown me but it caused a huge rift. I wish they would have. There were other issues that had nothing to do with me but they were very clear they expected me to work. I don't know why as they've never helped with anything. A good husband gives his wife the choice to work. A good husband helps with the house and kids and things are equal.

Wow, did I just wake up in 1950? Listen to yourself? A good husband lets his wife decide if she wants to work? Do you even hear how backwards you are?!?!?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as we can afford it, I’m never going back.

It’s just easy. Yes, it’s afforded DH many more work opportunities and advancements, and more money. I’m OK with that. You have to be OK with that. I had a dream job I worked my ass off achieving, and some days I miss it, but never more than I love the this lifestyle.

Echoing others, logistically it just makes sense. We don’t ever worry about anything like sick days or snow days, summer vacations or... remote learning. Also, yes, you’ll be so surprised how the time gets away from you. Suddenly it’s 3:30 and you have to leave to get the kids from school in 15 minutes. I definitely keep busy and I’m never bored, but I also enjoy my own company. Introvert here!

Ugh, women like this are setting society back by decades.

No, women like this are not setting society back. Women should get the choice. I grew up in a family where my parents were really pissed when I quit. My mom was retired but hated being a mom and wouldn't help with child care (after saying she would) and my child care feel through right before I went back to work and she wouldn't help for a few weeks so I could go back. She resented me and still does for not going back but because I was home it allowed my husband to take better jobs every few years and work his way up. I could handle all the things at home and help his family when his mom needed help and us not worry. Women should have the choice if they can financially afford it. My mom hated being a mom and doing the day to day caretaking. I love it and see how it benefits my kids and husband but more importantly me. I was miserable working. I can easily keep myself busy and am far busier now than working as my focus is different. I want to raise my kids and not be raised by nannies and day care like I was.

The problem with your entire diatribe is that you confine this to women. All you talk about is you and your mom. What about your dad? What about your DH. Ask yourself why men are not asked to consider what’s best for their children when they make choices about their careers?

Sounds like you have issues wIth your mom specific to you and not to an argument about women’s advancement.

And how many men are miserable working? Quite a few I’d guess. Why do they have automatically have keep slogging?

Both of my parents were the same way and both selfish but my Dad more than my Mom. My husband would love to stop working but he has higher income earning potential. My husband has always made us the priority. If I had wanted to work and we needed him to stay home, he would have gladly done it and is very good at it. My husband does a lot and I have no complaints. If your husband doesn't support you, then you have a spouse issue, not a societal issue just like I had a parent issue. Women's advancement as well as Man's should be about many factors and choices.

Nothing wrong with my spouse. These are societal issues.

Can we both agree that “society” has a lot of issues and isn’t necessarily that great?
I don’t see the point of spending my life trying to conform with society in general. It makes more sense to me to do what is right for my friends and family and people I meet than it is to fully conform and embrace the values of a society that I think we can all agree has issues.

If your husband cannot be an equal partner and help with your kids, something is very wrong with your husband. If you both cannot make it work, something is wrong with both of you. I don't worry at all if something happens to me as my husband can handle it all.

This is ridiculous. My husband can’t help with childcare at all during the week. He is gone by 6am and comes home by 10pm. We have been happily married a long time and this arrangement suits us just fine. He makes excellent money, we have great health benefits/pension, and he absolutely loves his job. He handles the bills, I handle the kids and house. I have a degree but never found any job I like as much as hanging out with my kids. I’m an introvert who likes to cook, clean, do yard work, and do maintenance around the house. Instead of making blanket statements about all partnerships, we should focus on supporting the decisions of all types of parents, those who choose to stay at home and those who choose to work. It’s not a one size fits all situation.

He can help, he chooses not to. Something is wrong if your spouse is gone that long every day all day. You care more about money than family.

Sounds like you need therapy PP, it’s not healthy to care so much about the lives of others. Please get some support, for your sake and the sake of your friends and family.

Sounds like you need family counseling. It's not healthy to spend so little time with your children. Please get some help, for your sake and the sake of your children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was working when my kids were in daycare... came home when they were all in school. I found the demands of having school-age kids (homework, school closures, activities) to be more demanding and less out-source-able than the demands of having younger kids.

Serious question from someone with younger kids...how does that work. Once they are at school 6-7 hours a day, how is that busier. Isn't all that stuff concentrated into after school (late afternoon, evening, weekends)? I was looking forward to having more energy, not less.

She’s making it up. It’s way easier once they go to school and you have so much more free time. Some women need to justify themselves not working...

This is PP above. I’m not making it up. I was working a demanding job (50 hours a week when my eldest was in 2nd grade and it all fell apart. She started getting stress stomach aches at school, I was being called daily by the nurse’s office. If I put her in aftercare, the homework wasn’t get done and we’d be up until 9 getting it all done plus school projects every weekend. Even with a helpful husband it was madness. We realized we either needed a nanny who was a decent teacher or a parent at home (at least half time). I ended up resigning and took a very part-time job.

Yep,same here, I posted my story above. Pp is not interested in facts or experiences, and just has a chip on their shoulder.

If you can afford individual high quality care and to outsource a hell of a lot, it is easier to work. If you can't outsource a lot and you have to do group care then my advice is to be sure they go to a no-homework school and limit their evening activities. You can't pick your kid but you can make these choices and they will help.

Exactly. In our case, my intuition was that my eldest needed *me* involved, and that even the highest quality care wasn't going to work. There are times when a kid seriously just needs their parent. Maybe my kids are just high maintenance, but there it is. I do agree that working is easier if you can find the right care/school situation.

So why wasn't your husband there for your kid? Why didn't he step back at his job so you could both continue to work and both be there for your kid? I think it's important for my kids to get BOTH their parents, which is my husband and I both get them ready for school, take them to or pick them up from school, do after school activities with them, cook for them, play with them, put them to bed, etc. There is nothing I do that he doesn't, and vice versa (except I have a better singing voice so I'm usually in charge of lullabies). Open your eyes, stop being the parent who has to do everything, and start making society allow BOTH parents to be there for their kids. Instead, what you're doing is folding, which allows your husband's employer to ask more of him and leave behind any person (male or female) who can't keep up. It's a terrible situation we are in and you are making it worse.

I'm the 08:02 PP and sadly, not all men want to be involved in the nitty gritty of parenting and would rather have a SAHM who handles that, plus the housework. I have SAHMs in the neighborhood who have to take out the trash and cut the grass every single time. The Hs refuse to lift a finger. Also, read here how many dads refuse to watch or put their children in unsafe situations just to force the moms to deal with the kids all the time. What other option do they have? Get a divorce and let the toddler wonder around and stick stuff in the power outlet while dad takes a 20-minute poop break? It's not like these men would step up to the plate when the moms start working. This is not a do-over situation. That's why so many women wait until the kids are out of the house to get a divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as we can afford it, I’m never going back.

It’s just easy. Yes, it’s afforded DH many more work opportunities and advancements, and more money. I’m OK with that. You have to be OK with that. I had a dream job I worked my ass off achieving, and some days I miss it, but never more than I love the this lifestyle.

Echoing others, logistically it just makes sense. We don’t ever worry about anything like sick days or snow days, summer vacations or... remote learning. Also, yes, you’ll be so surprised how the time gets away from you. Suddenly it’s 3:30 and you have to leave to get the kids from school in 15 minutes. I definitely keep busy and I’m never bored, but I also enjoy my own company. Introvert here!

Ugh, women like this are setting society back by decades.

No, women like this are not setting society back. Women should get the choice. I grew up in a family where my parents were really pissed when I quit. My mom was retired but hated being a mom and wouldn't help with child care (after saying she would) and my child care feel through right before I went back to work and she wouldn't help for a few weeks so I could go back. She resented me and still does for not going back but because I was home it allowed my husband to take better jobs every few years and work his way up. I could handle all the things at home and help his family when his mom needed help and us not worry. Women should have the choice if they can financially afford it. My mom hated being a mom and doing the day to day caretaking. I love it and see how it benefits my kids and husband but more importantly me. I was miserable working. I can easily keep myself busy and am far busier now than working as my focus is different. I want to raise my kids and not be raised by nannies and day care like I was.

The problem with your entire diatribe is that you confine this to women. All you talk about is you and your mom. What about your dad? What about your DH. Ask yourself why men are not asked to consider what’s best for their children when they make choices about their careers?

Sounds like you have issues wIth your mom specific to you and not to an argument about women’s advancement.

And how many men are miserable working? Quite a few I’d guess. Why do they have automatically have keep slogging?

Both of my parents were the same way and both selfish but my Dad more than my Mom. My husband would love to stop working but he has higher income earning potential. My husband has always made us the priority. If I had wanted to work and we needed him to stay home, he would have gladly done it and is very good at it. My husband does a lot and I have no complaints. If your husband doesn't support you, then you have a spouse issue, not a societal issue just like I had a parent issue. Women's advancement as well as Man's should be about many factors and choices.

Nothing wrong with my spouse. These are societal issues.

Can we both agree that “society” has a lot of issues and isn’t necessarily that great?
I don’t see the point of spending my life trying to conform with society in general. It makes more sense to me to do what is right for my friends and family and people I meet than it is to fully conform and embrace the values of a society that I think we can all agree has issues.

Sigh. So you're saying that it's best for you to pay attention only to the decisions that affect you and your immediate family and friends? Do you not appreciate how myopic and troubling this position is? Do you really not see it? Since you say society isn't great you've decided that, rather than trying to do something about that, you'd rather just stick your head in the sand and do what's best for you. That is the heart and soul of the problem our country has right now, and it goes beyond women. It's such a disappointment that people like you are happy to just make sure the life they lead is happy and ignore everyone else.

I guess that we will have to agree to disagree. I cant pretend to know the hearts and souls of 300 million people. And I really don’t see how myopic and troubling it is.
Since I have decided that society is not great, I don’t have to look to what other people are doing to guide my decisions. It isn’t about making myself happy, but about doing what’s actual right for my family, friends, neighbors, and community. I don’t think I can fix society, but I don’t have to buy into it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was working when my kids were in daycare... came home when they were all in school. I found the demands of having school-age kids (homework, school closures, activities) to be more demanding and less out-source-able than the demands of having younger kids.

Serious question from someone with younger kids...how does that work. Once they are at school 6-7 hours a day, how is that busier. Isn't all that stuff concentrated into after school (late afternoon, evening, weekends)? I was looking forward to having more energy, not less.

She’s making it up. It’s way easier once they go to school and you have so much more free time. Some women need to justify themselves not working...

This is PP above. I’m not making it up. I was working a demanding job (50 hours a week when my eldest was in 2nd grade and it all fell apart. She started getting stress stomach aches at school, I was being called daily by the nurse’s office. If I put her in aftercare, the homework wasn’t get done and we’d be up until 9 getting it all done plus school projects every weekend. Even with a helpful husband it was madness. We realized we either needed a nanny who was a decent teacher or a parent at home (at least half time). I ended up resigning and took a very part-time job.

Yep,same here, I posted my story above. Pp is not interested in facts or experiences, and just has a chip on their shoulder.

If you can afford individual high quality care and to outsource a hell of a lot, it is easier to work. If you can't outsource a lot and you have to do group care then my advice is to be sure they go to a no-homework school and limit their evening activities. You can't pick your kid but you can make these choices and they will help.

Exactly. In our case, my intuition was that my eldest needed *me* involved, and that even the highest quality care wasn't going to work. There are times when a kid seriously just needs their parent. Maybe my kids are just high maintenance, but there it is. I do agree that working is easier if you can find the right care/school situation.

So why wasn't your husband there for your kid? Why didn't he step back at his job so you could both continue to work and both be there for your kid? I think it's important for my kids to get BOTH their parents, which is my husband and I both get them ready for school, take them to or pick them up from school, do after school activities with them, cook for them, play with them, put them to bed, etc. There is nothing I do that he doesn't, and vice versa (except I have a better singing voice so I'm usually in charge of lullabies). Open your eyes, stop being the parent who has to do everything, and start making society allow BOTH parents to be there for their kids. Instead, what you're doing is folding, which allows your husband's employer to ask more of him and leave behind any person (male or female) who can't keep up. It's a terrible situation we are in and you are making it worse.

I'm the 08:02 PP and sadly, not all men want to be involved in the nitty gritty of parenting and would rather have a SAHM who handles that, plus the housework. I have SAHMs in the neighborhood who have to take out the trash and cut the grass every single time. The Hs refuse to lift a finger. Also, read here how many dads refuse to watch or put their children in unsafe situations just to force the moms to deal with the kids all the time. What other option do they have? Get a divorce and let the toddler wonder around and stick stuff in the power outlet while dad takes a 20-minute poop break? It's not like these men would step up to the plate when the moms start working. This is not a do-over situation. That's why so many women wait until the kids are out of the house to get a divorce.

How do you fix that? By raising your sons to NOT think like that. Raise your sons to fight for their wives' right to work for the same pay and fight for their own flexible workplace. Stop perpetuating the helpless husband scenario. I didn't grow up like that and my friends aren't like that and it's so disappointing to learn that there are still so many people who live in this dynamic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as we can afford it, I’m never going back.

It’s just easy. Yes, it’s afforded DH many more work opportunities and advancements, and more money. I’m OK with that. You have to be OK with that. I had a dream job I worked my ass off achieving, and some days I miss it, but never more than I love the this lifestyle.

Echoing others, logistically it just makes sense. We don’t ever worry about anything like sick days or snow days, summer vacations or... remote learning. Also, yes, you’ll be so surprised how the time gets away from you. Suddenly it’s 3:30 and you have to leave to get the kids from school in 15 minutes. I definitely keep busy and I’m never bored, but I also enjoy my own company. Introvert here!

Ugh, women like this are setting society back by decades.

No, women like this are not setting society back. Women should get the choice. I grew up in a family where my parents were really pissed when I quit. My mom was retired but hated being a mom and wouldn't help with child care (after saying she would) and my child care feel through right before I went back to work and she wouldn't help for a few weeks so I could go back. She resented me and still does for not going back but because I was home it allowed my husband to take better jobs every few years and work his way up. I could handle all the things at home and help his family when his mom needed help and us not worry. Women should have the choice if they can financially afford it. My mom hated being a mom and doing the day to day caretaking. I love it and see how it benefits my kids and husband but more importantly me. I was miserable working. I can easily keep myself busy and am far busier now than working as my focus is different. I want to raise my kids and not be raised by nannies and day care like I was.

The problem with your entire diatribe is that you confine this to women. All you talk about is you and your mom. What about your dad? What about your DH. Ask yourself why men are not asked to consider what’s best for their children when they make choices about their careers?

Sounds like you have issues wIth your mom specific to you and not to an argument about women’s advancement.

And how many men are miserable working? Quite a few I’d guess. Why do they have automatically have keep slogging?

Both of my parents were the same way and both selfish but my Dad more than my Mom. My husband would love to stop working but he has higher income earning potential. My husband has always made us the priority. If I had wanted to work and we needed him to stay home, he would have gladly done it and is very good at it. My husband does a lot and I have no complaints. If your husband doesn't support you, then you have a spouse issue, not a societal issue just like I had a parent issue. Women's advancement as well as Man's should be about many factors and choices.

Nothing wrong with my spouse. These are societal issues.

Can we both agree that “society” has a lot of issues and isn’t necessarily that great?
I don’t see the point of spending my life trying to conform with society in general. It makes more sense to me to do what is right for my friends and family and people I meet than it is to fully conform and embrace the values of a society that I think we can all agree has issues.

Sigh. So you're saying that it's best for you to pay attention only to the decisions that affect you and your immediate family and friends? Do you not appreciate how myopic and troubling this position is? Do you really not see it? Since you say society isn't great you've decided that, rather than trying to do something about that, you'd rather just stick your head in the sand and do what's best for you. That is the heart and soul of the problem our country has right now, and it goes beyond women. It's such a disappointment that people like you are happy to just make sure the life they lead is happy and ignore everyone else.

I guess that we will have to agree to disagree. I cant pretend to know the hearts and souls of 300 million people. And I really don’t see how myopic and troubling it is.
Since I have decided that society is not great, I don’t have to look to what other people are doing to guide my decisions. It isn’t about making myself happy, but about doing what’s actual right for my family, friends, neighbors, and community. I don’t think I can fix society, but I don’t have to buy into it.

Cool, cool. Be sure to let people facing sexism, racism, homophobia, xenophobia, and a whole host of other societal problems that you just couldn't be bothered to care about their plight. I just can't agree to disagree with that kind of selfish thinking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as we can afford it, I’m never going back.

It’s just easy. Yes, it’s afforded DH many more work opportunities and advancements, and more money. I’m OK with that. You have to be OK with that. I had a dream job I worked my ass off achieving, and some days I miss it, but never more than I love the this lifestyle.

Echoing others, logistically it just makes sense. We don’t ever worry about anything like sick days or snow days, summer vacations or... remote learning. Also, yes, you’ll be so surprised how the time gets away from you. Suddenly it’s 3:30 and you have to leave to get the kids from school in 15 minutes. I definitely keep busy and I’m never bored, but I also enjoy my own company. Introvert here!

Ugh, women like this are setting society back by decades.

No, women like this are not setting society back. Women should get the choice. I grew up in a family where my parents were really pissed when I quit. My mom was retired but hated being a mom and wouldn't help with child care (after saying she would) and my child care feel through right before I went back to work and she wouldn't help for a few weeks so I could go back. She resented me and still does for not going back but because I was home it allowed my husband to take better jobs every few years and work his way up. I could handle all the things at home and help his family when his mom needed help and us not worry. Women should have the choice if they can financially afford it. My mom hated being a mom and doing the day to day caretaking. I love it and see how it benefits my kids and husband but more importantly me. I was miserable working. I can easily keep myself busy and am far busier now than working as my focus is different. I want to raise my kids and not be raised by nannies and day care like I was.

The problem with your entire diatribe is that you confine this to women. All you talk about is you and your mom. What about your dad? What about your DH. Ask yourself why men are not asked to consider what’s best for their children when they make choices about their careers?

Sounds like you have issues wIth your mom specific to you and not to an argument about women’s advancement.

And how many men are miserable working? Quite a few I’d guess. Why do they have automatically have keep slogging?

Both of my parents were the same way and both selfish but my Dad more than my Mom. My husband would love to stop working but he has higher income earning potential. My husband has always made us the priority. If I had wanted to work and we needed him to stay home, he would have gladly done it and is very good at it. My husband does a lot and I have no complaints. If your husband doesn't support you, then you have a spouse issue, not a societal issue just like I had a parent issue. Women's advancement as well as Man's should be about many factors and choices.

Nothing wrong with my spouse. These are societal issues.

Can we both agree that “society” has a lot of issues and isn’t necessarily that great?
I don’t see the point of spending my life trying to conform with society in general. It makes more sense to me to do what is right for my friends and family and people I meet than it is to fully conform and embrace the values of a society that I think we can all agree has issues.

Sigh. So you're saying that it's best for you to pay attention only to the decisions that affect you and your immediate family and friends? Do you not appreciate how myopic and troubling this position is? Do you really not see it? Since you say society isn't great you've decided that, rather than trying to do something about that, you'd rather just stick your head in the sand and do what's best for you. That is the heart and soul of the problem our country has right now, and it goes beyond women. It's such a disappointment that people like you are happy to just make sure the life they lead is happy and ignore everyone else.

I guess that we will have to agree to disagree. I cant pretend to know the hearts and souls of 300 million people. And I really don’t see how myopic and troubling it is.
Since I have decided that society is not great, I don’t have to look to what other people are doing to guide my decisions. It isn’t about making myself happy, but about doing what’s actual right for my family, friends, neighbors, and community. I don’t think I can fix society, but I don’t have to buy into it.

Cool, cool. Be sure to let people facing sexism, racism, homophobia, xenophobia, and a whole host of other societal problems that you just couldn't be bothered to care about their plight. I just can't agree to disagree with that kind of selfish thinking.

What’s myopic is taking your own personal experience and extrapolating that to everyone, regardless of their own lives and experiences.
Real people don’t fit into boxes, and they are more than the categories you want to place them in. Why are you more worried about imagined groups of people facing racism, than the real people you meet and encounter day to day and the problems they are facing? You are like the priest running past the homeless man on his way to give a sermon. Granted. Giving the sermon is easier.
You don’t really know how millions of people should lead their day to day lives, what “all women” should do, or how to end xenophobia. That’s ludicrous. All you can do is figure out what you believe is right and live it day to day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was working when my kids were in daycare... came home when they were all in school. I found the demands of having school-age kids (homework, school closures, activities) to be more demanding and less out-source-able than the demands of having younger kids.

Serious question from someone with younger kids...how does that work. Once they are at school 6-7 hours a day, how is that busier. Isn't all that stuff concentrated into after school (late afternoon, evening, weekends)? I was looking forward to having more energy, not less.

She’s making it up. It’s way easier once they go to school and you have so much more free time. Some women need to justify themselves not working...

This is PP above. I’m not making it up. I was working a demanding job (50 hours a week when my eldest was in 2nd grade and it all fell apart. She started getting stress stomach aches at school, I was being called daily by the nurse’s office. If I put her in aftercare, the homework wasn’t get done and we’d be up until 9 getting it all done plus school projects every weekend. Even with a helpful husband it was madness. We realized we either needed a nanny who was a decent teacher or a parent at home (at least half time). I ended up resigning and took a very part-time job.

Yep,same here, I posted my story above. Pp is not interested in facts or experiences, and just has a chip on their shoulder.

If you can afford individual high quality care and to outsource a hell of a lot, it is easier to work. If you can't outsource a lot and you have to do group care then my advice is to be sure they go to a no-homework school and limit their evening activities. You can't pick your kid but you can make these choices and they will help.

Exactly. In our case, my intuition was that my eldest needed *me* involved, and that even the highest quality care wasn't going to work. There are times when a kid seriously just needs their parent. Maybe my kids are just high maintenance, but there it is. I do agree that working is easier if you can find the right care/school situation.

So why wasn't your husband there for your kid? Why didn't he step back at his job so you could both continue to work and both be there for your kid? I think it's important for my kids to get BOTH their parents, which is my husband and I both get them ready for school, take them to or pick them up from school, do after school activities with them, cook for them, play with them, put them to bed, etc. There is nothing I do that he doesn't, and vice versa (except I have a better singing voice so I'm usually in charge of lullabies). Open your eyes, stop being the parent who has to do everything, and start making society allow BOTH parents to be there for their kids. Instead, what you're doing is folding, which allows your husband's employer to ask more of him and leave behind any person (male or female) who can't keep up. It's a terrible situation we are in and you are making it worse.

I'm the 08:02 PP and sadly, not all men want to be involved in the nitty gritty of parenting and would rather have a SAHM who handles that, plus the housework. I have SAHMs in the neighborhood who have to take out the trash and cut the grass every single time. The Hs refuse to lift a finger. Also, read here how many dads refuse to watch or put their children in unsafe situations just to force the moms to deal with the kids all the time. What other option do they have? Get a divorce and let the toddler wonder around and stick stuff in the power outlet while dad takes a 20-minute poop break? It's not like these men would step up to the plate when the moms start working. This is not a do-over situation. That's why so many women wait until the kids are out of the house to get a divorce.

How do you fix that? By raising your sons to NOT think like that. Raise your sons to fight for their wives' right to work for the same pay and fight for their own flexible workplace. Stop perpetuating the helpless husband scenario. I didn't grow up like that and my friends aren't like that and it's so disappointing to learn that there are still so many people who live in this dynamic.

You would be surprised. We're relatively young and my H grew up with a SAHM and he was helpless when we got married. Fortunately, he snapped out of it quickly because I was not planning to clean up toilets after spending a lot of time and $ for grad school. My mom is a PhD and worked, and my brother is a very involved father and main cook in the family, while also making $$$$. What's so sad about my ILs situation is that my FIL left my MIL for a very accomplished mistress and now he brags about her Ivy degrees and big job, while my MIL was forced to go back to work after decades of being SAHM because the alimony dried up.

What we truly need is the unicorn that I have - flexible, family-friendly jobs that are well-paid and don't force women to drop off from the job market. Also quality, affordable child care. I'm European and my SIL had a 2 year paid maternity leave. She has two months paid sick leave each year and flexibility to leave for school events. My nephew's preschool was subsided and affordable and had a full time nurse and cook on campus; the cook would feed the kids only whole foods, nothing canned or boxed. The children were sleeping in real beds, not on the floor. His elementary school has a full time pediatrician and 10 kids in each class. The irony is that they are not paying more taxes that my family is paying, as % of income and the EU productivity is higher than ours.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/10/is-europe-outperforming-the-us/

https://time.com/4621185/worker-productivity-countries/

https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/kids-of-working-moms-grow-into-happy-adults

https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/kids-benefit-from-having-a-working-mom

https://www.elitedaily.com/news/world/harvard-study-children-working-mothers-success/1099591

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as we can afford it, I’m never going back.

It’s just easy. Yes, it’s afforded DH many more work opportunities and advancements, and more money. I’m OK with that. You have to be OK with that. I had a dream job I worked my ass off achieving, and some days I miss it, but never more than I love the this lifestyle.

Echoing others, logistically it just makes sense. We don’t ever worry about anything like sick days or snow days, summer vacations or... remote learning. Also, yes, you’ll be so surprised how the time gets away from you. Suddenly it’s 3:30 and you have to leave to get the kids from school in 15 minutes. I definitely keep busy and I’m never bored, but I also enjoy my own company. Introvert here!

Ugh, women like this are setting society back by decades.

No, women like this are not setting society back. Women should get the choice. I grew up in a family where my parents were really pissed when I quit. My mom was retired but hated being a mom and wouldn't help with child care (after saying she would) and my child care feel through right before I went back to work and she wouldn't help for a few weeks so I could go back. She resented me and still does for not going back but because I was home it allowed my husband to take better jobs every few years and work his way up. I could handle all the things at home and help his family when his mom needed help and us not worry. Women should have the choice if they can financially afford it. My mom hated being a mom and doing the day to day caretaking. I love it and see how it benefits my kids and husband but more importantly me. I was miserable working. I can easily keep myself busy and am far busier now than working as my focus is different. I want to raise my kids and not be raised by nannies and day care like I was.

The problem with your entire diatribe is that you confine this to women. All you talk about is you and your mom. What about your dad? What about your DH. Ask yourself why men are not asked to consider what’s best for their children when they make choices about their careers?

Sounds like you have issues wIth your mom specific to you and not to an argument about women’s advancement.

And how many men are miserable working? Quite a few I’d guess. Why do they have automatically have keep slogging?

Both of my parents were the same way and both selfish but my Dad more than my Mom. My husband would love to stop working but he has higher income earning potential. My husband has always made us the priority. If I had wanted to work and we needed him to stay home, he would have gladly done it and is very good at it. My husband does a lot and I have no complaints. If your husband doesn't support you, then you have a spouse issue, not a societal issue just like I had a parent issue. Women's advancement as well as Man's should be about many factors and choices.

Nothing wrong with my spouse. These are societal issues.

Can we both agree that “society” has a lot of issues and isn’t necessarily that great?
I don’t see the point of spending my life trying to conform with society in general. It makes more sense to me to do what is right for my friends and family and people I meet than it is to fully conform and embrace the values of a society that I think we can all agree has issues.

If your husband cannot be an equal partner and help with your kids, something is very wrong with your husband. If you both cannot make it work, something is wrong with both of you. I don't worry at all if something happens to me as my husband can handle it all.

This is ridiculous. My husband can’t help with childcare at all during the week. He is gone by 6am and comes home by 10pm. We have been happily married a long time and this arrangement suits us just fine. He makes excellent money, we have great health benefits/pension, and he absolutely loves his job. He handles the bills, I handle the kids and house. I have a degree but never found any job I like as much as hanging out with my kids. I’m an introvert who likes to cook, clean, do yard work, and do maintenance around the house. Instead of making blanket statements about all partnerships, we should focus on supporting the decisions of all types of parents, those who choose to stay at home and those who choose to work. It’s not a one size fits all situation.

Your poor children. They have a weekend dad, at best.

Some dads (or moms) have to work a lot. That is just how it is. They are good parents for providing well. Kids need love and stability. They don't need two parents in the kitchen making them lunch, two parents giving them a bath, etc. This can be done by one parent, especially if the outside work and income providing is done by one parent. I have a life just like PP. My DH doesn't do any child care. That doesn't make he isn't involved though- he has been teaching our 4th and 5th grader geometry, coloring and labeling plant cells with them, and talking through the Declaration of Independence with them. He also plays a mean game of cherry bomb on the playground.