SAHMs of children entering school age

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:This year younger kid was supposed to be my return to the workforce. Younger kid is starting k. I’m not even bothering to look right now.


Same. I was a teacher and transferred my certificate to my new state. Was excited to look for a job. Then COVID hit....DH is high risk so even though some are retiring we’re not going to risk it. Plus my kindergartener will need full time assistance with virtual never mind the second grader.

Fingers crossed for next school year.
Anonymous
We have found ourselves in the SAHM with school aged kids and a working DH in large part because the labor market is also not very accommodating of fathers who want to step back. DH tried for years to step out of a high paying but stressful finance job but employers did not want to hire him for jobs that would require a large pay cut and a lesser job title even though that is what he wanted. He finally quit out of frustration but now we are both consultants and don't have employer provided health insurance which is not a risk most families want to take.
Anonymous
I'm a SAHM of school aged kids. Last year was my first year with all the kids in school full time.

This is more of a confession (which I would NEVER say to anyone irl) it but the pandemic came around at the perfect time for me. Having the kids gone all day was nice for like 3 months because I was able to use that time to get some house projects done. But after that I started getting lonely and depressed with nothing much to do besides work out.

I'm not sad that they're not going back to school full time this year, let's just say that. I wouldn't be sad if this extends into the 2021/22 school year either.

My problem is that I don't have to work for the money so I have no desire to start at square 1 at some job requiring me to do all the grunt work. I don't have any "passions" for career either. I don't know what the eff I'm going to do when this pandemic is over.
Anonymous
I would have gone back to work as this year my youngest went into kindergarten, but: covid. I can’t see her sitting at a computer several hours a day without serious social and or mental damage at this age.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I left my FT, WOH job after DC was born. I actually went back for a while after maternity leave, but our nanny share fell apart, we couldn't find a daycare that was close to our house or either of our jobs, and my job had been a nightmare since I'd returned (I was pumping milk in a supply closet, my boss was flipping out if I asked to work a slightly adjusted schedule so I could be home in time to relieve the nanny, etc.). So it wasn't exactly my choice to SAH but everything got much, much easier when I did.

Now DC is starting school soon (well, whenever school is in-person again), and I am already lining up work. I've learned from my last job and will only take a job that allows me flexibility. I started a part time, freelance, WFH position earlier this year to test the waters. It's been great, and I've already started talking about stepping up my hours when DC is in school. My goal is to work about 25-30 hours a week, giving me some extra time during the week to be with DC and to also just have some time to myself. Plus, my income will help us afford activities and summer camp for DC, which is good for DC and also good for me because again, more time.

I loved SAH with DC, even though it wasn't planned. I would never get that time back and while I very much respect all WOH parents, I'm personally glad I didn't spend those years in a job I didn't like very much while DC was in a childcare situation that also wasn't great. But wow do I look forward to having more independence and alone time, and to making more money and spending more time talking to adults about what DC calls "grown up things." I miss grown up things.


My exact same situation. Need to start off with that flexible job and build your way up. My 8th & 10th graders are fairly self-regulating and did really well on SHSATs. It is doubtful they could have tested into the specialized NYC high schools if I outsourced the parenting.
If I did work, I'd probably be paying for private school tuition because they wouldn't have been able to test into the NYC G&T programs. And my job doesn't pay enough for 2 private school tuitions.


I took the specialized exam years ago and graduated from Bronx Science. The whole point of the exam was to identify talented and gifted students, not to study for the exam. I came from a low income immigrant family, the majority of my classmates and friends at Stuyvesant and Tech came from similar backgrounds. None of us studied for that exam, we certainly couldn’t afford extra tutors and none of our parents were around to school us. If your kids truly belonged in the specialized schools, they wouldn’t have needed your help to get there.


Years ago is the most important part of your post. Things have changed dramatically. Your experiences were yours then but they are out of date now. Same with SATs. I didn't even prepare for the SATs, and none of my friends did either. We were all honors students. We all did well and got in to our choice colleges and honors programs within those colleges. I am not sure I would even get accepted today with that score. Times have dramatically changed. Also your comment that if they belonged there, they wouldn't have needed her help is just rude and out of touch. You don't have to be rude, especially when your information is so out of date.

FYI IQ tests are the only tests that you don't prepare for these days. That is it.
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:As long as we can afford it, I’m never going back.

It’s just easy. Yes, it’s afforded DH many more work opportunities and advancements, and more money. I’m OK with that. You have to be OK with that. I had a dream job I worked my ass off achieving, and some days I miss it, but never more than I love the this lifestyle.

Echoing others, logistically it just makes sense. We don’t ever worry about anything like sick days or snow days, summer vacations or... remote learning. Also, yes, you’ll be so surprised how the time gets away from you. Suddenly it’s 3:30 and you have to leave to get the kids from school in 15 minutes. I definitely keep busy and I’m never bored, but I also enjoy my own company. Introvert here!


Ugh, women like this are setting society back by decades.


No, women like this are not setting society back. Women should get the choice. I grew up in a family where my parents were really pissed when I quit. My mom was retired but hated being a mom and wouldn't help with child care (after saying she would) and my child care feel through right before I went back to work and she wouldn't help for a few weeks so I could go back. She resented me and still does for not going back but because I was home it allowed my husband to take better jobs every few years and work his way up. I could handle all the things at home and help his family when his mom needed help and us not worry. Women should have the choice if they can financially afford it. My mom hated being a mom and doing the day to day caretaking. I love it and see how it benefits my kids and husband but more importantly me. I was miserable working. I can easily keep myself busy and am far busier now than working as my focus is different. I want to raise my kids and not be raised by nannies and day care like I was.


The problem with your entire diatribe is that you confine this to women. All you talk about is you and your mom. What about your dad? What about your DH. Ask yourself why men are not asked to consider what’s best for their children when they make choices about their careers?

Sounds like you have issues wIth your mom specific to you and not to an argument about women’s advancement.

And how many men are miserable working? Quite a few I’d guess. Why do they have automatically have keep slogging?


Both of my parents were the same way and both selfish but my Dad more than my Mom. My husband would love to stop working but he has higher income earning potential. My husband has always made us the priority. If I had wanted to work and we needed him to stay home, he would have gladly done it and is very good at it. My husband does a lot and I have no complaints. If your husband doesn't support you, then you have a spouse issue, not a societal issue just like I had a parent issue. Women's advancement as well as Man's should be about many factors and choices.


Nothing wrong with my spouse. These are societal issues.



Can we both agree that “society” has a lot of issues and isn’t necessarily that great?
I don’t see the point of spending my life trying to conform with society in general. It makes more sense to me to do what is right for my friends and family and people I meet than it is to fully conform and embrace the values of a society that I think we can all agree has issues.


Sigh. So you're saying that it's best for you to pay attention only to the decisions that affect you and your immediate family and friends? Do you not appreciate how myopic and troubling this position is? Do you really not see it? Since you say society isn't great you've decided that, rather than trying to do something about that, you'd rather just stick your head in the sand and do what's best for you. That is the heart and soul of the problem our country has right now, and it goes beyond women. It's such a disappointment that people like you are happy to just make sure the life they lead is happy and ignore everyone else.


I guess that we will have to agree to disagree. I cant pretend to know the hearts and souls of 300 million people. And I really don’t see how myopic and troubling it is.
Since I have decided that society is not great, I don’t have to look to what other people are doing to guide my decisions. It isn’t about making myself happy, but about doing what’s actual right for my family, friends, neighbors, and community. I don’t think I can fix society, but I don’t have to buy into it.


Cool, cool. Be sure to let people facing sexism, racism, homophobia, xenophobia, and a whole host of other societal problems that you just couldn't be bothered to care about their plight. I just can't agree to disagree with that kind of selfish thinking.


What’s myopic is taking your own personal experience and extrapolating that to everyone, regardless of their own lives and experiences.
Real people don’t fit into boxes, and they are more than the categories you want to place them in. Why are you more worried about imagined groups of people facing racism, than the real people you meet and encounter day to day and the problems they are facing? You are like the priest running past the homeless man on his way to give a sermon. Granted. Giving the sermon is easier.
You don’t really know how millions of people should lead their day to day lives, what “all women” should do, or how to end xenophobia. That’s ludicrous. All you can do is figure out what you believe is right and live it day to day.


What are you babbling on about? You're the one who said you couldn't look past the end of your own nose...
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I'm a SAHM of school aged kids. Last year was my first year with all the kids in school full time.

This is more of a confession (which I would NEVER say to anyone irl) it but the pandemic came around at the perfect time for me. Having the kids gone all day was nice for like 3 months because I was able to use that time to get some house projects done. But after that I started getting lonely and depressed with nothing much to do besides work out.

I'm not sad that they're not going back to school full time this year, let's just say that. I wouldn't be sad if this extends into the 2021/22 school year either.

My problem is that I don't have to work for the money so I have no desire to start at square 1 at some job requiring me to do all the grunt work. I don't have any "passions" for career either. I don't know what the eff I'm going to do when this pandemic is over.


Helps to find a crew of likeminded other SAHMs to hang out with. Female companionship is key!

Volunteering is also an option. I started working at a children's hospital (pre covid) which was intellectually and emotionally enriching, but gave me much needed flexibility in scheduling unlike a formal job.
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:As long as we can afford it, I’m never going back.

It’s just easy. Yes, it’s afforded DH many more work opportunities and advancements, and more money. I’m OK with that. You have to be OK with that. I had a dream job I worked my ass off achieving, and some days I miss it, but never more than I love the this lifestyle.

Echoing others, logistically it just makes sense. We don’t ever worry about anything like sick days or snow days, summer vacations or... remote learning. Also, yes, you’ll be so surprised how the time gets away from you. Suddenly it’s 3:30 and you have to leave to get the kids from school in 15 minutes. I definitely keep busy and I’m never bored, but I also enjoy my own company. Introvert here!


Ugh, women like this are setting society back by decades.


No, women like this are not setting society back. Women should get the choice. I grew up in a family where my parents were really pissed when I quit. My mom was retired but hated being a mom and wouldn't help with child care (after saying she would) and my child care feel through right before I went back to work and she wouldn't help for a few weeks so I could go back. She resented me and still does for not going back but because I was home it allowed my husband to take better jobs every few years and work his way up. I could handle all the things at home and help his family when his mom needed help and us not worry. Women should have the choice if they can financially afford it. My mom hated being a mom and doing the day to day caretaking. I love it and see how it benefits my kids and husband but more importantly me. I was miserable working. I can easily keep myself busy and am far busier now than working as my focus is different. I want to raise my kids and not be raised by nannies and day care like I was.


The problem with your entire diatribe is that you confine this to women. All you talk about is you and your mom. What about your dad? What about your DH. Ask yourself why men are not asked to consider what’s best for their children when they make choices about their careers?

Sounds like you have issues wIth your mom specific to you and not to an argument about women’s advancement.

And how many men are miserable working? Quite a few I’d guess. Why do they have automatically have keep slogging?


Both of my parents were the same way and both selfish but my Dad more than my Mom. My husband would love to stop working but he has higher income earning potential. My husband has always made us the priority. If I had wanted to work and we needed him to stay home, he would have gladly done it and is very good at it. My husband does a lot and I have no complaints. If your husband doesn't support you, then you have a spouse issue, not a societal issue just like I had a parent issue. Women's advancement as well as Man's should be about many factors and choices.


Nothing wrong with my spouse. These are societal issues.



Can we both agree that “society” has a lot of issues and isn’t necessarily that great?
I don’t see the point of spending my life trying to conform with society in general. It makes more sense to me to do what is right for my friends and family and people I meet than it is to fully conform and embrace the values of a society that I think we can all agree has issues.


Sigh. So you're saying that it's best for you to pay attention only to the decisions that affect you and your immediate family and friends? Do you not appreciate how myopic and troubling this position is? Do you really not see it? Since you say society isn't great you've decided that, rather than trying to do something about that, you'd rather just stick your head in the sand and do what's best for you. That is the heart and soul of the problem our country has right now, and it goes beyond women. It's such a disappointment that people like you are happy to just make sure the life they lead is happy and ignore everyone else.


I guess that we will have to agree to disagree. I cant pretend to know the hearts and souls of 300 million people. And I really don’t see how myopic and troubling it is.
Since I have decided that society is not great, I don’t have to look to what other people are doing to guide my decisions. It isn’t about making myself happy, but about doing what’s actual right for my family, friends, neighbors, and community. I don’t think I can fix society, but I don’t have to buy into it.


Cool, cool. Be sure to let people facing sexism, racism, homophobia, xenophobia, and a whole host of other societal problems that you just couldn't be bothered to care about their plight. I just can't agree to disagree with that kind of selfish thinking.


What’s myopic is taking your own personal experience and extrapolating that to everyone, regardless of their own lives and experiences.
Real people don’t fit into boxes, and they are more than the categories you want to place them in. Why are you more worried about imagined groups of people facing racism, than the real people you meet and encounter day to day and the problems they are facing? You are like the priest running past the homeless man on his way to give a sermon. Granted. Giving the sermon is easier.
You don’t really know how millions of people should lead their day to day lives, what “all women” should do, or how to end xenophobia. That’s ludicrous. All you can do is figure out what you believe is right and live it day to day.


What are you babbling on about? You're the one who said you couldn't look past the end of your own nose...


You think every woman should work, right? Because that’s what is pushing us forward towards some kind of ideal with more equality or more flexible jobs? That the societal pressure women feel to work is good. But here is the thing... society isn’t that great, it’s far from ideal, and there is no reason to have to follow societal norms and pressures. It only makes sense to do the right thing as you see it for the real people and problems in your real life. That doesn’t mean ignoring sexism, it means making it personal. Stop making it so abstract.

You don’t know what the right, moral, and valuable thing is for a room of 50 women, let alone 50,000 or 50 million. You can’t say that all SAHMs are good, bad, right, or wrong. You have no idea.


Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:As long as we can afford it, I’m never going back.

It’s just easy. Yes, it’s afforded DH many more work opportunities and advancements, and more money. I’m OK with that. You have to be OK with that. I had a dream job I worked my ass off achieving, and some days I miss it, but never more than I love the this lifestyle.

Echoing others, logistically it just makes sense. We don’t ever worry about anything like sick days or snow days, summer vacations or... remote learning. Also, yes, you’ll be so surprised how the time gets away from you. Suddenly it’s 3:30 and you have to leave to get the kids from school in 15 minutes. I definitely keep busy and I’m never bored, but I also enjoy my own company. Introvert here!


Ugh, women like this are setting society back by decades.


No, women like this are not setting society back. Women should get the choice. I grew up in a family where my parents were really pissed when I quit. My mom was retired but hated being a mom and wouldn't help with child care (after saying she would) and my child care feel through right before I went back to work and she wouldn't help for a few weeks so I could go back. She resented me and still does for not going back but because I was home it allowed my husband to take better jobs every few years and work his way up. I could handle all the things at home and help his family when his mom needed help and us not worry. Women should have the choice if they can financially afford it. My mom hated being a mom and doing the day to day caretaking. I love it and see how it benefits my kids and husband but more importantly me. I was miserable working. I can easily keep myself busy and am far busier now than working as my focus is different. I want to raise my kids and not be raised by nannies and day care like I was.


The problem with your entire diatribe is that you confine this to women. All you talk about is you and your mom. What about your dad? What about your DH. Ask yourself why men are not asked to consider what’s best for their children when they make choices about their careers?

Sounds like you have issues wIth your mom specific to you and not to an argument about women’s advancement.

And how many men are miserable working? Quite a few I’d guess. Why do they have automatically have keep slogging?


Both of my parents were the same way and both selfish but my Dad more than my Mom. My husband would love to stop working but he has higher income earning potential. My husband has always made us the priority. If I had wanted to work and we needed him to stay home, he would have gladly done it and is very good at it. My husband does a lot and I have no complaints. If your husband doesn't support you, then you have a spouse issue, not a societal issue just like I had a parent issue. Women's advancement as well as Man's should be about many factors and choices.


Nothing wrong with my spouse. These are societal issues.



Can we both agree that “society” has a lot of issues and isn’t necessarily that great?
I don’t see the point of spending my life trying to conform with society in general. It makes more sense to me to do what is right for my friends and family and people I meet than it is to fully conform and embrace the values of a society that I think we can all agree has issues.


Sigh. So you're saying that it's best for you to pay attention only to the decisions that affect you and your immediate family and friends? Do you not appreciate how myopic and troubling this position is? Do you really not see it? Since you say society isn't great you've decided that, rather than trying to do something about that, you'd rather just stick your head in the sand and do what's best for you. That is the heart and soul of the problem our country has right now, and it goes beyond women. It's such a disappointment that people like you are happy to just make sure the life they lead is happy and ignore everyone else.


I guess that we will have to agree to disagree. I cant pretend to know the hearts and souls of 300 million people. And I really don’t see how myopic and troubling it is.
Since I have decided that society is not great, I don’t have to look to what other people are doing to guide my decisions. It isn’t about making myself happy, but about doing what’s actual right for my family, friends, neighbors, and community. I don’t think I can fix society, but I don’t have to buy into it.


Cool, cool. Be sure to let people facing sexism, racism, homophobia, xenophobia, and a whole host of other societal problems that you just couldn't be bothered to care about their plight. I just can't agree to disagree with that kind of selfish thinking.


What’s myopic is taking your own personal experience and extrapolating that to everyone, regardless of their own lives and experiences.
Real people don’t fit into boxes, and they are more than the categories you want to place them in. Why are you more worried about imagined groups of people facing racism, than the real people you meet and encounter day to day and the problems they are facing? You are like the priest running past the homeless man on his way to give a sermon. Granted. Giving the sermon is easier.
You don’t really know how millions of people should lead their day to day lives, what “all women” should do, or how to end xenophobia. That’s ludicrous. All you can do is figure out what you believe is right and live it day to day.


What are you babbling on about? You're the one who said you couldn't look past the end of your own nose...


You think every woman should work, right? Because that’s what is pushing us forward towards some kind of ideal with more equality or more flexible jobs? That the societal pressure women feel to work is good. But here is the thing... society isn’t that great, it’s far from ideal, and there is no reason to have to follow societal norms and pressures. It only makes sense to do the right thing as you see it for the real people and problems in your real life. That doesn’t mean ignoring sexism, it means making it personal. Stop making it so abstract.

You don’t know what the right, moral, and valuable thing is for a room of 50 women, let alone 50,000 or 50 million. You can’t say that all SAHMs are good, bad, right, or wrong. You have no idea.




NP. I don’t think every woman should work, but I hate the dynamic of SAHM who takes care of everything so that their DH can do nothing but work. Several friends had to work under bosses like these who required useless FT and discouraged flexibility (because they never needed it themselves) and it was hellish. Definitely causes inequality in the workplace.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
NP. I don’t think every woman should work, but I hate the dynamic of SAHM who takes care of everything so that their DH can do nothing but work. Several friends had to work under bosses like these who required useless FT and discouraged flexibility (because they never needed it themselves) and it was hellish. Definitely causes inequality in the workplace.



How interesting that the really bad bosses aren't held responsible for their bad management skills, but instead other women who are not even working are to blame for their bad behavior.

Women who never even met these asshole bosses are to blame for their shit.

Until we start holding bad bosses responsible for their own actions, NOTHING WILL CHANGE.

Poor victimized male bosses who can't even be held responsible for their decisions... Let's go right back to Eve and the apple, shall we? Poor victimized men.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I do not plan on going back to work. DH supports this. We'd rather scale back on lifestyle than me return to work because my job was time-intensive and didn't pay enough to warrant the stress it caused.


+1 this is us too.


+2 Were you both teachers, too?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
NP. I don’t think every woman should work, but I hate the dynamic of SAHM who takes care of everything so that their DH can do nothing but work. Several friends had to work under bosses like these who required useless FT and discouraged flexibility (because they never needed it themselves) and it was hellish. Definitely causes inequality in the workplace.



How interesting that the really bad bosses aren't held responsible for their bad management skills, but instead other women who are not even working are to blame for their bad behavior.


Women who never even met these asshole bosses are to blame for their shit.

Until we start holding bad bosses responsible for their own actions, NOTHING WILL CHANGE.

Poor victimized male bosses who can't even be held responsible for their decisions... Let's go right back to Eve and the apple, shall we? Poor victimized men.


Exactly. It's not the boss...it's his wife. Sure!
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:As long as we can afford it, I’m never going back.

It’s just easy. Yes, it’s afforded DH many more work opportunities and advancements, and more money. I’m OK with that. You have to be OK with that. I had a dream job I worked my ass off achieving, and some days I miss it, but never more than I love the this lifestyle.

Echoing others, logistically it just makes sense. We don’t ever worry about anything like sick days or snow days, summer vacations or... remote learning. Also, yes, you’ll be so surprised how the time gets away from you. Suddenly it’s 3:30 and you have to leave to get the kids from school in 15 minutes. I definitely keep busy and I’m never bored, but I also enjoy my own company. Introvert here!


Ugh, women like this are setting society back by decades.


No, women like this are not setting society back. Women should get the choice. I grew up in a family where my parents were really pissed when I quit. My mom was retired but hated being a mom and wouldn't help with child care (after saying she would) and my child care feel through right before I went back to work and she wouldn't help for a few weeks so I could go back. She resented me and still does for not going back but because I was home it allowed my husband to take better jobs every few years and work his way up. I could handle all the things at home and help his family when his mom needed help and us not worry. Women should have the choice if they can financially afford it. My mom hated being a mom and doing the day to day caretaking. I love it and see how it benefits my kids and husband but more importantly me. I was miserable working. I can easily keep myself busy and am far busier now than working as my focus is different. I want to raise my kids and not be raised by nannies and day care like I was.


The problem with your entire diatribe is that you confine this to women. All you talk about is you and your mom. What about your dad? What about your DH. Ask yourself why men are not asked to consider what’s best for their children when they make choices about their careers?

Sounds like you have issues wIth your mom specific to you and not to an argument about women’s advancement.

And how many men are miserable working? Quite a few I’d guess. Why do they have automatically have keep slogging?


Both of my parents were the same way and both selfish but my Dad more than my Mom. My husband would love to stop working but he has higher income earning potential. My husband has always made us the priority. If I had wanted to work and we needed him to stay home, he would have gladly done it and is very good at it. My husband does a lot and I have no complaints. If your husband doesn't support you, then you have a spouse issue, not a societal issue just like I had a parent issue. Women's advancement as well as Man's should be about many factors and choices.


Nothing wrong with my spouse. These are societal issues.



Can we both agree that “society” has a lot of issues and isn’t necessarily that great?
I don’t see the point of spending my life trying to conform with society in general. It makes more sense to me to do what is right for my friends and family and people I meet than it is to fully conform and embrace the values of a society that I think we can all agree has issues.


Sigh. So you're saying that it's best for you to pay attention only to the decisions that affect you and your immediate family and friends? Do you not appreciate how myopic and troubling this position is? Do you really not see it? Since you say society isn't great you've decided that, rather than trying to do something about that, you'd rather just stick your head in the sand and do what's best for you. That is the heart and soul of the problem our country has right now, and it goes beyond women. It's such a disappointment that people like you are happy to just make sure the life they lead is happy and ignore everyone else.


I guess that we will have to agree to disagree. I cant pretend to know the hearts and souls of 300 million people. And I really don’t see how myopic and troubling it is.
Since I have decided that society is not great, I don’t have to look to what other people are doing to guide my decisions. It isn’t about making myself happy, but about doing what’s actual right for my family, friends, neighbors, and community. I don’t think I can fix society, but I don’t have to buy into it.


Cool, cool. Be sure to let people facing sexism, racism, homophobia, xenophobia, and a whole host of other societal problems that you just couldn't be bothered to care about their plight. I just can't agree to disagree with that kind of selfish thinking.


What’s myopic is taking your own personal experience and extrapolating that to everyone, regardless of their own lives and experiences.
Real people don’t fit into boxes, and they are more than the categories you want to place them in. Why are you more worried about imagined groups of people facing racism, than the real people you meet and encounter day to day and the problems they are facing? You are like the priest running past the homeless man on his way to give a sermon. Granted. Giving the sermon is easier.
You don’t really know how millions of people should lead their day to day lives, what “all women” should do, or how to end xenophobia. That’s ludicrous. All you can do is figure out what you believe is right and live it day to day.


What are you babbling on about? You're the one who said you couldn't look past the end of your own nose...


You think every woman should work, right? Because that’s what is pushing us forward towards some kind of ideal with more equality or more flexible jobs? That the societal pressure women feel to work is good. But here is the thing... society isn’t that great, it’s far from ideal, and there is no reason to have to follow societal norms and pressures. It only makes sense to do the right thing as you see it for the real people and problems in your real life. That doesn’t mean ignoring sexism, it means making it personal. Stop making it so abstract.

You don’t know what the right, moral, and valuable thing is for a room of 50 women, let alone 50,000 or 50 million. You can’t say that all SAHMs are good, bad, right, or wrong. You have no idea.




I'm the PP to whom you are responding and no, I don't think every woman should work. What I do think should happen is that both men and women need to fight for more equality in the work place. I had a male boss at a Big4 firm who thought that he was a great dad because he was able to say goodnight to his kids before they went to bed at night. Literally did not see his children in the morning because he left before they woke up and only saw them once they were in bed at the end of the day, every day, but he patted himself on the back for being a super-involved dad. After he was an ass when I had a child-related issue when my husband had just had surgery and was still in the hospital and needed to come into work three hours late, I went to the managing partner and explained that his expectations of ALL parents, not just moms, was unrealistic. I got a raise, a promotion, and the ability to work from home whenever I wanted. I still had the same billable hour requirements, so it's not like my work load changed, but the conditions under which I had to work sure did. Men who don't ask for flexibility that allows them to be present parents, and women who don't fight harder to force employers to be more forgiving are doing nothing but reaffirming the toxic culture that still exists in many places. So my issue is with people, men and women, who don't try harder to make their workplace a better situation for all parents. You want to just bury your head in the sand and say, well, I'd rather just stay at home and let my husband work and who cares about everyone else. I think, personally, that that's a disgusting selfish view of the world. So I never said that all SAHMs are anything. You're the one who has no idea beyond the own four walls of your house, but it's really rich that you want to lecture me on not knowing what's right for everyone when all I said was that everyone should be able to make the choice that works best for them when you are failing to ignore that some women want to choose to work but can't.
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Anonymous wrote:As long as we can afford it, I’m never going back.

It’s just easy. Yes, it’s afforded DH many more work opportunities and advancements, and more money. I’m OK with that. You have to be OK with that. I had a dream job I worked my ass off achieving, and some days I miss it, but never more than I love the this lifestyle.

Echoing others, logistically it just makes sense. We don’t ever worry about anything like sick days or snow days, summer vacations or... remote learning. Also, yes, you’ll be so surprised how the time gets away from you. Suddenly it’s 3:30 and you have to leave to get the kids from school in 15 minutes. I definitely keep busy and I’m never bored, but I also enjoy my own company. Introvert here!


Ugh, women like this are setting society back by decades.


No, women like this are not setting society back. Women should get the choice. I grew up in a family where my parents were really pissed when I quit. My mom was retired but hated being a mom and wouldn't help with child care (after saying she would) and my child care feel through right before I went back to work and she wouldn't help for a few weeks so I could go back. She resented me and still does for not going back but because I was home it allowed my husband to take better jobs every few years and work his way up. I could handle all the things at home and help his family when his mom needed help and us not worry. Women should have the choice if they can financially afford it. My mom hated being a mom and doing the day to day caretaking. I love it and see how it benefits my kids and husband but more importantly me. I was miserable working. I can easily keep myself busy and am far busier now than working as my focus is different. I want to raise my kids and not be raised by nannies and day care like I was.


The problem with your entire diatribe is that you confine this to women. All you talk about is you and your mom. What about your dad? What about your DH. Ask yourself why men are not asked to consider what’s best for their children when they make choices about their careers?

Sounds like you have issues wIth your mom specific to you and not to an argument about women’s advancement.

And how many men are miserable working? Quite a few I’d guess. Why do they have automatically have keep slogging?


Both of my parents were the same way and both selfish but my Dad more than my Mom. My husband would love to stop working but he has higher income earning potential. My husband has always made us the priority. If I had wanted to work and we needed him to stay home, he would have gladly done it and is very good at it. My husband does a lot and I have no complaints. If your husband doesn't support you, then you have a spouse issue, not a societal issue just like I had a parent issue. Women's advancement as well as Man's should be about many factors and choices.


Nothing wrong with my spouse. These are societal issues.



Can we both agree that “society” has a lot of issues and isn’t necessarily that great?
I don’t see the point of spending my life trying to conform with society in general. It makes more sense to me to do what is right for my friends and family and people I meet than it is to fully conform and embrace the values of a society that I think we can all agree has issues.


Sigh. So you're saying that it's best for you to pay attention only to the decisions that affect you and your immediate family and friends? Do you not appreciate how myopic and troubling this position is? Do you really not see it? Since you say society isn't great you've decided that, rather than trying to do something about that, you'd rather just stick your head in the sand and do what's best for you. That is the heart and soul of the problem our country has right now, and it goes beyond women. It's such a disappointment that people like you are happy to just make sure the life they lead is happy and ignore everyone else.


I guess that we will have to agree to disagree. I cant pretend to know the hearts and souls of 300 million people. And I really don’t see how myopic and troubling it is.
Since I have decided that society is not great, I don’t have to look to what other people are doing to guide my decisions. It isn’t about making myself happy, but about doing what’s actual right for my family, friends, neighbors, and community. I don’t think I can fix society, but I don’t have to buy into it.


Cool, cool. Be sure to let people facing sexism, racism, homophobia, xenophobia, and a whole host of other societal problems that you just couldn't be bothered to care about their plight. I just can't agree to disagree with that kind of selfish thinking.


What’s myopic is taking your own personal experience and extrapolating that to everyone, regardless of their own lives and experiences.
Real people don’t fit into boxes, and they are more than the categories you want to place them in. Why are you more worried about imagined groups of people facing racism, than the real people you meet and encounter day to day and the problems they are facing? You are like the priest running past the homeless man on his way to give a sermon. Granted. Giving the sermon is easier.
You don’t really know how millions of people should lead their day to day lives, what “all women” should do, or how to end xenophobia. That’s ludicrous. All you can do is figure out what you believe is right and live it day to day.


What are you babbling on about? You're the one who said you couldn't look past the end of your own nose...


You think every woman should work, right? Because that’s what is pushing us forward towards some kind of ideal with more equality or more flexible jobs? That the societal pressure women feel to work is good. But here is the thing... society isn’t that great, it’s far from ideal, and there is no reason to have to follow societal norms and pressures. It only makes sense to do the right thing as you see it for the real people and problems in your real life. That doesn’t mean ignoring sexism, it means making it personal. Stop making it so abstract.

You don’t know what the right, moral, and valuable thing is for a room of 50 women, let alone 50,000 or 50 million. You can’t say that all SAHMs are good, bad, right, or wrong. You have no idea.




I'm the PP to whom you are responding and no, I don't think every woman should work. What I do think should happen is that both men and women need to fight for more equality in the work place. I had a male boss at a Big4 firm who thought that he was a great dad because he was able to say goodnight to his kids before they went to bed at night. Literally did not see his children in the morning because he left before they woke up and only saw them once they were in bed at the end of the day, every day, but he patted himself on the back for being a super-involved dad. After he was an ass when I had a child-related issue when my husband had just had surgery and was still in the hospital and needed to come into work three hours late, I went to the managing partner and explained that his expectations of ALL parents, not just moms, was unrealistic. I got a raise, a promotion, and the ability to work from home whenever I wanted. I still had the same billable hour requirements, so it's not like my work load changed, but the conditions under which I had to work sure did. Men who don't ask for flexibility that allows them to be present parents, and women who don't fight harder to force employers to be more forgiving are doing nothing but reaffirming the toxic culture that still exists in many places. So my issue is with people, men and women, who don't try harder to make their workplace a better situation for all parents. You want to just bury your head in the sand and say, well, I'd rather just stay at home and let my husband work and who cares about everyone else. I think, personally, that that's a disgusting selfish view of the world. So I never said that all SAHMs are anything. You're the one who has no idea beyond the own four walls of your house, but it's really rich that you want to lecture me on not knowing what's right for everyone when all I said was that everyone should be able to make the choice that works best for them when you are failing to ignore that some women want to choose to work but can't.


If that was all you said no one would disagree.
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NP. I don’t think every woman should work, but I hate the dynamic of SAHM who takes care of everything so that their DH can do nothing but work. Several friends had to work under bosses like these who required useless FT and discouraged flexibility (because they never needed it themselves) and it was hellish. Definitely causes inequality in the workplace.



How interesting that the really bad bosses aren't held responsible for their bad management skills, but instead other women who are not even working are to blame for their bad behavior.


Women who never even met these asshole bosses are to blame for their shit.

Until we start holding bad bosses responsible for their own actions, NOTHING WILL CHANGE.

Poor victimized male bosses who can't even be held responsible for their decisions... Let's go right back to Eve and the apple, shall we? Poor victimized men.


Exactly. It's not the boss...it's his wife. Sure!


Yes, because the wife, by giving up and staying home, enables her DH to be an asshole. If she gave him equal responsibilities of home and kids, he would have empathy for other working parents.
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