Teachers, how do you tactfully refuse to write a recommendation letter?

[Anonymous]

Aren't you supposed to mentor these children and help them with opportunities to become adults? It's pretty laughable reading highschool teachers refusing to give letters of recommendation to their students to save their 'reputation'. I grew up poor and decided to go to grad school 3 years after undergrad. Had no idea how to get letters of recommendation but luckily I had college professors willing to write an adequate letter despite not remembering me at all (large state university). I wouldn't have gotten in without them and wonder if letters of rec are actually some sort of class based or race based gate keeping.

[Anonymous]

With limited exceptions, the UCs don’t accept LORs. Equity/resource issues both on part of busy admissions readers and the burden on public school teachers and counselors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I realize this post is addressed to teachers but parents are 👀. You should advise your kids how to go about approaching a rec and then requesting the letter. Best advice I gave mine was to email many teachers early before they're slammed at the start of the next school year. He emailed 5 in February of Junior year before winter break.

One teacher was an alumn at a university that was one of his top 3. It was an AP class and he had ~ 88 avg at the time. That teacher replied immediately with something like oh hey bro, you're gonna love it there. Yes I got you. This teacher needed quite a few polite reminders! My kid felt like it was a bother to remind him, but I told him it shows tenacity.

Since all the other LOCs were uploaded, he met with the alumn teacher in Sept and asked if he could tailor the letter specifically for that one University. He did! He was last teacher to upload letter to Naviance. DS just finished his 1st year at that University. So I guess my point is to coach your kids how to request, follow up, and show gratitude. Letters don't have to be from teachers in classes with perfect grades. They need to think about the relationship. Letters should correlate to intended majors, if possible. Students should know their teachers. Mine didn't request from teachers he felt indifference for despite good GPA in their classes. Teachers also have favorites (it's a fact). Students are competing with their peers for letters and also applying to same schools. Keep that in mind. Many colleges allow and additional letter from other authorities such as internships, community service, or employers.

I’m a teacher and I would be annoyed if a kid asked me for a recommendation in Feb for the following year. I would know immediately that the parent is behind the request. Asking in may or June is reasonable. Asking several months before the class is over is weird. Why would I commit to writing the letter before I know how the kid handles the next several months?

At our MCPS hs, kids switch teachers mid year so wouldn’t February be the best time if you’re requesting from a fall semester teacher? Not a rhetorical question- interested in feedback either way.

Also, do teachers prefer to be asked in person or by email?

Thanks!

Definitely ask in person. And even if you switch mid-year, ask in May or June. Teachers are too harried in Feb to be thinking of recommendation letters. If possible, try to pick a teacher who has taught you for the full year. I have some kids who switch out mid year and I don’t know them as well as the kids who remain with me for the full year

[Anonymous]

I asked a law school professor to write me a rec because I got the highest grade in the class. In a matter of fact way she told me that all she could really say was that I was a good test-taker. It was true and didn’t bother me one bit. I never participated in the class because it didn’t count towards the grade. I got letters from others and all was fine. I was glad she was honest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Aren't you supposed to mentor these children and help them with opportunities to become adults? It's pretty laughable reading highschool teachers refusing to give letters of recommendation to their students to save their 'reputation'. I grew up poor and decided to go to grad school 3 years after undergrad. Had no idea how to get letters of recommendation but luckily I had college professors willing to write an adequate letter despite not remembering me at all (large state university). I wouldn't have gotten in without them and wonder if letters of rec are actually some sort of class based or race based gate keeping.

What makes you think it's class-based or race-based gatekeeping? I have poor students and URM students I've given glowing recs to and rich, highly polished kids I wouldn't give a rec to if my life depended on it. It's about what they did in your classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a new HS teacher and I'll probably be getting these requests sooner or later.
How do you tactfully refuse to write a recommendation letter if you don't have anything great to say, or worse, if you have negative things to say and the student lacks enough self-awareness to realize that and asks you anyway?

I'm sorry but I cannot in good faith write a letter of recommendation for you. Repeat as necessary. If the student insists because the application says the letter must be from xxx subject, then I suggest a prior year teacher.

[Anonymous]

Write the letter regardless. Be honest about both strengths and weaknesses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren't you supposed to mentor these children and help them with opportunities to become adults? It's pretty laughable reading highschool teachers refusing to give letters of recommendation to their students to save their 'reputation'. I grew up poor and decided to go to grad school 3 years after undergrad. Had no idea how to get letters of recommendation but luckily I had college professors willing to write an adequate letter despite not remembering me at all (large state university). I wouldn't have gotten in without them and wonder if letters of rec are actually some sort of class based or race based gate keeping.

What makes you think it's class-based or race-based gatekeeping? I have poor students and URM students I've given glowing recs to and rich, highly polished kids I wouldn't give a rec to if my life depended on it. It's about what they did in your classroom.

+100

I don’t understand why DCUM parents think teachers are racist and classist. I find that UMC kids tend to be way more entitled, arrogant and disrespectful than other socioeconomic groups. I’m not spending my personal time writing letters for kids who couldn’t spend their time doing work in my class or being respectful or engaged. It’s a good life lesson and one of the few times as a teacher I can give consequences for behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a new HS teacher and I'll probably be getting these requests sooner or later.
How do you tactfully refuse to write a recommendation letter if you don't have anything great to say, or worse, if you have negative things to say and the student lacks enough self-awareness to realize that and asks you anyway?

If I can't write a good recommendation - defined as personal, 2-3 anecdotes, and targeted to the major the student wants - then I say "Sure, but I'll need you to sit down and chat with me for 15 minutes before to talk about how I can [showcase you in the best light/make you the best candidate/make sure we're on the same page about your strengths/etc."

If they do that, then I can always figure out something to write. If they're too avoidant even after I reach out to the parents, who are usually very excited that I'm taking such an interest in their kid's letter of recommendation - then I don't worry about tracking them down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren't you supposed to mentor these children and help them with opportunities to become adults? It's pretty laughable reading highschool teachers refusing to give letters of recommendation to their students to save their 'reputation'. I grew up poor and decided to go to grad school 3 years after undergrad. Had no idea how to get letters of recommendation but luckily I had college professors willing to write an adequate letter despite not remembering me at all (large state university). I wouldn't have gotten in without them and wonder if letters of rec are actually some sort of class based or race based gate keeping.

What makes you think it's class-based or race-based gatekeeping? I have poor students and URM students I've given glowing recs to and rich, highly polished kids I wouldn't give a rec to if my life depended on it. It's about what they did in your classroom.

+100

I don’t understand why DCUM parents think teachers are racist and classist. I find that UMC kids tend to be way more entitled, arrogant and disrespectful than other socioeconomic groups. I’m not spending my personal time writing letters for kids who couldn’t spend their time doing work in my class or being respectful or engaged. It’s a good life lesson and one of the few times as a teacher I can give consequences for behavior.

It’s not that teachers are racist/classist—it goes back to who knows how and what to ask if teachers when getting recommendations. If you have parents who went to college, siblings who went through the process, a family who can afford to hire a private college counselor, and you are used to asking and getting favors then you know how to work the system.

[Anonymous]

Those of you who are insisting that teachers should write letters of rec for all students who ask have no idea how long it takes to write a good letter of rec. There is no time during the workday to do this for me, and while I am happy to spend a few hours of my own time at home writing letters of rec each year for kids who deserve it, I do not have time to write one for every student who wants it, especially the ones who wait to ask until just before it needs to be submitted. If I adopted your policy of writing letters of rec for all, none of them would be careful and detailed enough to be effective.

And I agree with the PP who noted that the most entitled, arrogant kids are usually MC or UMC kids. Each year I get emails demanding that I write letters of rec for some of these kids, followed by indignant, combative emails from the parents when I refuse. You are not owed a recommendation. You do not automatically deserve a recommendation just because you are physically present in my class.

Also, parents need to stop asking me to “coach” their child (by this they mean spend hours rereading and then “editing” the child’s work, or telling the child what to change and write) application materials. I go home to my own family and life after school; I do not a robot who shuts down and waits in the classroom all night until needed again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those of you who are insisting that teachers should write letters of rec for all students who ask have no idea how long it takes to write a good letter of rec. There is no time during the workday to do this for me, and while I am happy to spend a few hours of my own time at home writing letters of rec each year for kids who deserve it, I do not have time to write one for every student who wants it, especially the ones who wait to ask until just before it needs to be submitted. If I adopted your policy of writing letters of rec for all, none of them would be careful and detailed enough to be effective.

And I agree with the PP who noted that the most entitled, arrogant kids are usually MC or UMC kids. Each year I get emails demanding that I write letters of rec for some of these kids, followed by indignant, combative emails from the parents when I refuse. You are not owed a recommendation. You do not automatically deserve a recommendation just because you are physically present in my class.

Also, parents need to stop asking me to “coach” their child (by this they mean spend hours rereading and then “editing” the child’s work, or telling the child what to change and write) application materials. I go home to my own family and life after school; I do not a robot who shuts down and waits in the classroom all night until needed again.

+100
I teach high schoolers and get asked by 50+ kids each year for a recommendation. There is simply not enough time for me to write all of them, even if I wanted to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren't you supposed to mentor these children and help them with opportunities to become adults? It's pretty laughable reading highschool teachers refusing to give letters of recommendation to their students to save their 'reputation'. I grew up poor and decided to go to grad school 3 years after undergrad. Had no idea how to get letters of recommendation but luckily I had college professors willing to write an adequate letter despite not remembering me at all (large state university). I wouldn't have gotten in without them and wonder if letters of rec are actually some sort of class based or race based gate keeping.

What makes you think it's class-based or race-based gatekeeping? I have poor students and URM students I've given glowing recs to and rich, highly polished kids I wouldn't give a rec to if my life depended on it. It's about what they did in your classroom.

+100

I don’t understand why DCUM parents think teachers are racist and classist. I find that UMC kids tend to be way more entitled, arrogant and disrespectful than other socioeconomic groups. I’m not spending my personal time writing letters for kids who couldn’t spend their time doing work in my class or being respectful or engaged. It’s a good life lesson and one of the few times as a teacher I can give consequences for behavior.

It’s not that teachers are racist/classist—it goes back to who knows how and what to ask if teachers when getting recommendations. If you have parents who went to college, siblings who went through the process, a family who can afford to hire a private college counselor, and you are used to asking and getting favors then you know how to work the system.

PP and I don’t think asking for recommendations is part of working the system. Other parts of the college application process, absolutely. But every teacher I’ve ever met who teaches juniors just tells the class how they would like to be asked. And then kids of all races, genders, SES, etc. just ask the same way. And honestly it’s UMC parents that get involved and then I say no to the kid because this is something you should take ownership over. Your mother should not ask me to write you a rec letter.

[Anonymous]

I have taught for over a decade and never had a student ask me who I really couldn’t say anything nice about. I tend to connect with my students even when they are not top academic performers so I have written my share of letters for C students. But often those students have some of the most engaging and remarkable non-academic traits and are actually very bright. The hardest to write for me are students who were really middle of the road and didn’t share much if their personality with me but even then I can think of at least one specific positive trait to emphasize. But honestly, if you have a student who does poorly in your class and also didn’t connect with their personality they are almost certainly not going to ask for a letter from you, so don’t worry about it too much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have taught for over a decade and never had a student ask me who I really couldn’t say anything nice about. I tend to connect with my students even when they are not top academic performers so I have written my share of letters for C students. But often those students have some of the most engaging and remarkable non-academic traits and are actually very bright. The hardest to write for me are students who were really middle of the road and didn’t share much if their personality with me but even then I can think of at least one specific positive trait to emphasize. But honestly, if you have a student who does poorly in your class and also didn’t connect with their personality they are almost certainly not going to ask for a letter from you, so don’t worry about it too much.

Yes, I thought teachers understood this was their role with letters of recommendation. It's very disturbing how many teachers here are trying to limit teenager access to higher education as if these kids personality and values are set in stone. I agree with the pp that LORs seem to be class or race gate keeping.