My sister is marrying a non-Jew. Help?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you attend the wedding of a Catholic coworker? If so, how is this any different?

Not OP, but that is easy. There is nothing in halacha preventing a gentile from marrying another gentile (halacha, apart from the 7 commandments given to Noah, does not apply to gentiles) She MIGHT have an issue entering a church.

As someone very wisely said: where there is lot of legalism, there is little faith.

Then you don't know many Orthodox Jews. I have found incredible amounts of passionate faith among them. Though it may be expressed in ways people raised with a Christian approach to faith (and yes, many Jews have a Christian approach to what faith is) cannot see. In fact I think Muslims "get" traditional Judaism much more (and I wish we all could explore that connection more, leaving politics aside)

Well, I am absolutely sure that G-d does not want me to express my passionate faith by thinking myself better and more worthy of others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you attend the wedding of a Catholic coworker? If so, how is this any different?

Not OP, but that is easy. There is nothing in halacha preventing a gentile from marrying another gentile (halacha, apart from the 7 commandments given to Noah, does not apply to gentiles) She MIGHT have an issue entering a church.

As someone very wisely said: where there is lot of legalism, there is little faith.

Exactly.

This is my issue with these very doctrine-heavy versions of religions. My goal in engaging with a religion is to try to figure out more about why we're all here, gain some personal peace of mind, engage more productively and compassionately with the people around me, and *maybe* gain some insight into what happens after we die.

I personally find that following a lot of rules about what to eat, how to dress, whom to marry, etc. do nothing to help me achieve those goals. Maybe it does for others, but not for me.

Orthodoxy is not particularly doctrine heavy - you can hold a fairly wide range of theological positions. Its the behavior that is strict.

Anway, you are clearly not an Orthodox (or even Conservative) Jew. Nor are you a Muslim (who also live by religious law). Why do you expect all religious people to share your approach, and to be worthy of having their views dismissed?

[Anonymous]

You know what? If my sister felt this way, I'd want her to stay far, far away from me and my family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you attend the wedding of a Catholic coworker? If so, how is this any different?

Not OP, but that is easy. There is nothing in halacha preventing a gentile from marrying another gentile (halacha, apart from the 7 commandments given to Noah, does not apply to gentiles) She MIGHT have an issue entering a church.

As someone very wisely said: where there is lot of legalism, there is little faith.

Then you don't know many Orthodox Jews. I have found incredible amounts of passionate faith among them. Though it may be expressed in ways people raised with a Christian approach to faith (and yes, many Jews have a Christian approach to what faith is) cannot see. In fact I think Muslims "get" traditional Judaism much more (and I wish we all could explore that connection more, leaving politics aside)

Well, I am absolutely sure that G-d does not want me to express my passionate faith by thinking myself better and more worthy of others.

You seem to think yourself better than the OP. Certainly many people commenting here do. Why don't you correct them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you attend the wedding of a Catholic coworker? If so, how is this any different?

Not OP, but that is easy. There is nothing in halacha preventing a gentile from marrying another gentile (halacha, apart from the 7 commandments given to Noah, does not apply to gentiles) She MIGHT have an issue entering a church.

As someone very wisely said: where there is lot of legalism, there is little faith.

Exactly.

This is my issue with these very doctrine-heavy versions of religions. My goal in engaging with a religion is to try to figure out more about why we're all here, gain some personal peace of mind, engage more productively and compassionately with the people around me, and *maybe* gain some insight into what happens after we die.

I personally find that following a lot of rules about what to eat, how to dress, whom to marry, etc. do nothing to help me achieve those goals. Maybe it does for others, but not for me.

Orthodoxy is not particularly doctrine heavy - you can hold a fairly wide range of theological positions. Its the behavior that is strict.

Anway, you are clearly not an Orthodox (or even Conservative) Jew. Nor are you a Muslim (who also live by religious law). Why do you expect all religious people to share your approach, and to be worthy of having their views dismissed?

That's probably what PP meant. There are a huge number of rules about behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You know what? If my sister felt this way, I'd want her to stay far, far away from me and my family.

Exactly. I hope that OP doesn't get invited.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you attend the wedding of a Catholic coworker? If so, how is this any different?

Not OP, but that is easy. There is nothing in halacha preventing a gentile from marrying another gentile (halacha, apart from the 7 commandments given to Noah, does not apply to gentiles) She MIGHT have an issue entering a church.

As someone very wisely said: where there is lot of legalism, there is little faith.

Then you don't know many Orthodox Jews. I have found incredible amounts of passionate faith among them. Though it may be expressed in ways people raised with a Christian approach to faith (and yes, many Jews have a Christian approach to what faith is) cannot see. In fact I think Muslims "get" traditional Judaism much more (and I wish we all could explore that connection more, leaving politics aside)

Well, I am absolutely sure that G-d does not want me to express my passionate faith by thinking myself better and more worthy of others.

You seem to think yourself better than the OP. Certainly many people commenting here do. Why don't you correct them?

I think that the majority consensus on this thread is that people are disgusted at OP's feelings and behavior towards her own sister. So, they are not feeling superior. They just cannot fathom that one could do this to her own sister.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you attend the wedding of a Catholic coworker? If so, how is this any different?

Not OP, but that is easy. There is nothing in halacha preventing a gentile from marrying another gentile (halacha, apart from the 7 commandments given to Noah, does not apply to gentiles) She MIGHT have an issue entering a church.

As someone very wisely said: where there is lot of legalism, there is little faith.

Exactly.

This is my issue with these very doctrine-heavy versions of religions. My goal in engaging with a religion is to try to figure out more about why we're all here, gain some personal peace of mind, engage more productively and compassionately with the people around me, and *maybe* gain some insight into what happens after we die.

I personally find that following a lot of rules about what to eat, how to dress, whom to marry, etc. do nothing to help me achieve those goals. Maybe it does for others, but not for me.

Orthodoxy is not particularly doctrine heavy - you can hold a fairly wide range of theological positions. Its the behavior that is strict.

Anway, you are clearly not an Orthodox (or even Conservative) Jew. Nor are you a Muslim (who also live by religious law). Why do you expect all religious people to share your approach, and to be worthy of having their views dismissed?

That's probably what PP meant. There are a huge number of rules about behavior.

So now "doctrine" means something other than doctrine?

[Anonymous]

Go to the wedding.

What does your religion teach you about maintaining family ties? Live your religion, rather than preaching and punishing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You know what? If my sister felt this way, I'd want her to stay far, far away from me and my family.

I know someone who feels like OP - and she's not even Orthodox. She refused to speak to a woman her brother was dating, who was by all means kind and accomplished, because she wasn't a Jew.

[Anonymous]

Yes you should go to the wedding!

Presumably she’ll have kids and you can play a role in their Jewish education even if they’re not raised Jewish. My mom is Jewish and my dad is Christian and I was raised UU. I married an Israeli and we are raising our 3 kids Jewish. No one in my extended family cared either way about my religion as a kid. If the Jewish side of my family shunned me / my dad I bet I would not want to associate with the religion now as an adult. Instead I’m giving you 3 more Jews (4 if you count me).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you attend the wedding of a Catholic coworker? If so, how is this any different?

Not OP, but that is easy. There is nothing in halacha preventing a gentile from marrying another gentile (halacha, apart from the 7 commandments given to Noah, does not apply to gentiles) She MIGHT have an issue entering a church.

As someone very wisely said: where there is lot of legalism, there is little faith.

Exactly.

This is my issue with these very doctrine-heavy versions of religions. My goal in engaging with a religion is to try to figure out more about why we're all here, gain some personal peace of mind, engage more productively and compassionately with the people around me, and *maybe* gain some insight into what happens after we die.

I personally find that following a lot of rules about what to eat, how to dress, whom to marry, etc. do nothing to help me achieve those goals. Maybe it does for others, but not for me.

Orthodoxy is not particularly doctrine heavy - you can hold a fairly wide range of theological positions. Its the behavior that is strict.

Anway, you are clearly not an Orthodox (or even Conservative) Jew. Nor are you a Muslim (who also live by religious law). Why do you expect all religious people to share your approach, and to be worthy of having their views dismissed?

That's probably what PP meant. There are a huge number of rules about behavior.

So now "doctrine" means something other than doctrine?

Oh come on.

Doctrine: a particular principle, position, or policy taught or advocated, as of a religion or government: Catholic doctrines; the Monroe Doctrine. something that is taught; teachings collectively: religious doctrine

That can encompass beliefs in themselves and the behaviors that emanate from those beliefs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I think that the majority consensus on this thread is that people are disgusted at OP's feelings and behavior towards her own sister. So, they are not feeling superior. They just cannot fathom that one could do this to her own sister.

I am not going to go through every comment in 6 pages, but plenty have clearly expressed their superiority to the OP ("your sister is better off avoiding you" that sort of thing) I also have difficulty with people saying "I am disgusted with you, but I do not feel superior to you" And I see little understanding of OP's feelings or behavior - because people do not understand what following halacha means to an Orthodox Jew (of course in the USA we also don't understand what following sharia means to an observant muslim, to the point that right wing politicians abuse that for votes)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you attend the wedding of a Catholic coworker? If so, how is this any different?

Not OP, but that is easy. There is nothing in halacha preventing a gentile from marrying another gentile (halacha, apart from the 7 commandments given to Noah, does not apply to gentiles) She MIGHT have an issue entering a church.

As someone very wisely said: where there is lot of legalism, there is little faith.

Exactly.

This is my issue with these very doctrine-heavy versions of religions. My goal in engaging with a religion is to try to figure out more about why we're all here, gain some personal peace of mind, engage more productively and compassionately with the people around me, and *maybe* gain some insight into what happens after we die.

I personally find that following a lot of rules about what to eat, how to dress, whom to marry, etc. do nothing to help me achieve those goals. Maybe it does for others, but not for me.

Orthodoxy is not particularly doctrine heavy - you can hold a fairly wide range of theological positions. Its the behavior that is strict.

Anway, you are clearly not an Orthodox (or even Conservative) Jew. Nor are you a Muslim (who also live by religious law). Why do you expect all religious people to share your approach, and to be worthy of having their views dismissed?

That's probably what PP meant. There are a huge number of rules about behavior.

So now "doctrine" means something other than doctrine?

Oh come on.

Doctrine: a particular principle, position, or policy taught or advocated, as of a religion or government: Catholic doctrines; the Monroe Doctrine. something that is taught; teachings collectively: religious doctrine

That can encompass beliefs in themselves and the behaviors that emanate from those beliefs.

a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a Church, political party, or other group.
"the doctrine of predestination"
synonyms: creed, credo, dogma, belief, set of beliefs, code of belief, conviction, teaching;


To the extent Orthodoxy has a credo (the 13 principles of faith) its fairly broad, and subject to interpretation and not more "doctrinaire" than other religions. It does have specific behavioral rules.

The greatest doctrinaireness I see on this thread are those condeming OP without understanding or knowledge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think that the majority consensus on this thread is that people are disgusted at OP's feelings and behavior towards her own sister. So, they are not feeling superior. They just cannot fathom that one could do this to her own sister.

I am not going to go through every comment in 6 pages, but plenty have clearly expressed their superiority to the OP ("your sister is better off avoiding you" that sort of thing) I also have difficulty with people saying "I am disgusted with you, but I do not feel superior to you" And I see little understanding of OP's feelings or behavior - because people do not understand what following halacha means to an Orthodox Jew (of course in the USA we also don't understand what following sharia means to an observant muslim, to the point that right wing politicians abuse that for votes)

Some of us understand. What we cannot understand is that ANY type of religious doctrine would make you belittle your own sister's choices. If that's the case you should question yourself as to why you agree.