we're Jewish, 7yo daughter wants advent calendar

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yikes, it wasn't my intention to touch a nerve. I didn't see anywhere in the original post for replies to only come from Jewish posters. In fact, the OP wrote "Thoughts on this, oh DCUM readers?''.

You are correct.

OP - did you really want advice from Hindus and gentile atheists on this? I mean I understand you want Christians to tell you if this is really religious or not. But if you want advice on raising a child as a Jew, I would think you would be looking for advice from, you know, Jews. But if you want advice from people who neither have experience raising a Jewish child, nor particular insight into the Christian meaning of advent, it is of course your privilege to listen to whomever you wish.

Gentile atheists, huh?

Atheist cultural Christians, if you like. IE atheists who are NOT cultural Jews,, who would at have their own Jewish perspective. Is this really that hard?

[Anonymous]

For Hanukkah my family each opens a piece of dark chocolate covered marizipan after each night's candle lighting. World Market sells a box of 8 pieces of individually wrapped marzipan treats (dark, milk, and various flavors) They are 6.99 each in store. Each family member has their own box for the holiday. You could do this for leading up to the holiday too. https://www.worldmarket.com/product/niederegger-dark-chocolate-marzipan-mini-bars.do?sortby=ourPicks&from=fn

[Anonymous]

Have a glass of kosher wine, and relax. It’s just a dumb calendar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm Jewish and I wouldn't do it, OP. It's funny because just today, my 15 year old DS told me his favorite holiday is Christmas. But, he means it in general - in the public excitement, of peppermint candy, school breaks and decorations. But as a family, we don't celebrate Christmas - we celebrate our own holidays.

I love that he loves Christmas and usually helps decorate a friends' tree. And gives Christmas gifts to those who celebrate and generally loves to buy gingerbread smelling soap or whatever.

But he is being raised Jewish, we encourage our holidays with our family and the love of our religion and it's celebrations. I think it's an opportunity to teach your kid more about being Jewish --- and not just a copy cat countdown calendar or whatever. Figure out what you want her to learn about Chanukah and start teaching.

Being raised a Christian doesn't prevent me from enjoying matzah ball soup, or loving the All of a Kind Family books, or playing the dreidel game. Chinese New Year is pretty cool too. Raising a child in your religion, shouldn't mean the exclusion of enjoying other cultural traditions.

But it's much easier to retain a strong sense of Christianity even if you sometimes enjoy matzah ball soup or play dreidel than it is to raise kids who feel comfortable being Jewish in a country where they're a tiny minority (2 percent) if they're also bringing Christian traditions into your home.

[Anonymous]

OP here. I'm really amazed at how much dialogue this has sparked. And I do appreciate everyone's thoughts, so thanks to all who weighed in!

I think the assimilation issue is maybe not so unique to Jews anymore, the way it was 100 years ago, but it's been woven into our cultural heritage in a very profound way. So for anyone who was raised in a relatively traditional Jewish family (like I was) it can feel very strange to be consciously deciding which traditions to pass on and which to phase out. For example, the faux kosher way I was raised made zero sense to me as a kid (no bacon at home! no milk with dinner! but outside the house, do whatever you want) so that one was out the second I left the natal nest. As I've gotten older the connections to my extended family have become even more important to me, which is why we celebrate holidays together, and for me this fills the space that a shul might otherwise fill (the "community" piece). But I can't see my way clear to having a Christmas tree in my house, or even an advent calendar for that matter (decision: made!).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, this joyful time of year... we're pretty lax Jews, i.e. we don't belong to a shul but we celebrate holidays with family, and I feel my daughter is learning enough about her culture to keep the meaningful traditions alive. I myself grew up in an overwhelmingly Catholic town in New England as one of three Jewish kids in our elementary school, so the DMV is obviously extremely diverse by comparison! However it is simply an unavoidable fact of American life that all things Christmas are the norm at this time of year (decorations, music, movies, sales -- basically anything that can be "themed"). And naturally my 7yo has noticed that only Christmas stuff is everywhere, not Hanukkah. And she's started pointing out how it's "not fair" for this to be the case. I've been explaining how Hanukkah isn't really on a par with Christmas in terms of the religious significance of the holiday and how the marketing aspects of the two holidays came to be (never too early to start explaining America's true religion: capitalism!) but she really loves the concept of the advent calendar and wants to get one. I know for her it's all about the little surprises behind the little doors, and as I said, we're pretty lax Jews, but I just can't wrap my head around this. It's giving me flashbacks to my own childhood when I strongly advocated for the right to decorate a Hanukkah Bush in lieu of a Christmas Tree, and it was a total nonstarter in my family (a la Tevya: TRADITION!). I don't even fully understand the concept of advent, except as a countdown to Christmas, but I know it has some religious significance and it would feel weird to have one in my house. I should probably just buy some extra gelt and keep it around for distraction anytime she mentions the advent calendar. But I know this is part of the larger lifelong conversation about religion, American secular traditions, and where lax Jews like us fit into it all, so I'm trying to handle it appropriately without invoking my Tevya genes, and without completely capitulating to the capitalist urges that make the whole thing as problematic as possible. Thoughts on this, oh DCUM readers? Happy Holidays!

I really, really, really do NOT want to judge you, but I think you just may be a TAD unrealistic? Unless you live in an overwhelmingly Jewish neighborhood (which it sounds like you do not) I don't think you can easily maintain a distinct Jewish identity, let alone the traditions, without membership in a synagogue (in theory you could in some other Jewish institution with the same level of community and commitment and regular attendance, but AFAICT no such institution exists around here).

If you want to be secular, and also guarantee the kids are unassimilated, you probably need to move to NYC, or maybe even to Israel.

100% agree. If she's not in sunday school at that age, how is she supposed to develop a knowledge of her religion and a connection to her faith. You're just assuming cause she lights a menorah she's gonna get it? If you want her to be a practicing Jew, which it seems like you do, you need to foster that.

Another Jew here who agrees. My older cousins took OP's approach with their 3 kids. Years ago, at age 11, their oldest one didn't know what Passover or Rosh Hashanah were about other than being dragged to family meals with their great-grandparents (at which they ate some food and then went off to play video games). My then-boyfriend and I were appalled. We're not super-religious but come on, the High Holidays and Passover are the bare minimum. My cousins finally got a tutor for their kids and all three boys were bar mitzvahed, but I can guarantee you -- just having been to the youngest one's bar mitzvah a few months ago -- that none of them are Jewish in any sense but their DNA. They know nothing of Judaism.

Now, hopefully you are being a bit more diligent than my dear coz, but really, kids don't learn this stuff by osmosis. Unless you grow up in a heavily Jewish area, attend Camp Ramah, or go to Hebrew school from a young age through bnai mitzvah, it's pretty unlikely they're going to develop a strong sense of Jewish identity in any religious sense. Even then it's not guaranteed. We did all this, as did my husband's family, and my SIL never goes to shul and my sister forgot Yom Kippur last year. So a lot depends on the kid, too.

As for the Advent stuff -- (a) I think it's terrible to get a Jewish child an Advent calendar -- you wouldn't get her a cross if she liked it, would you? and (b) I can see the offense on the Christian side too, because Advent really is a religious thing. If she likes the idea of counting down, then count down, but don't imbue it with some religious aspect it doesn't have for us, nor appropriate someone else's religious symbol or ritual.

Good luck. I have a 4 year old and a 1 year old and figure if not this year, then next year I'll be dealing with this stuff. But the older one will be in Hebrew school in another 2 years, at least.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I'm really amazed at how much dialogue this has sparked. And I do appreciate everyone's thoughts, so thanks to all who weighed in!

I think the assimilation issue is maybe not so unique to Jews anymore, the way it was 100 years ago, but it's been woven into our cultural heritage in a very profound way. So for anyone who was raised in a relatively traditional Jewish family (like I was) it can feel very strange to be consciously deciding which traditions to pass on and which to phase out. For example, the faux kosher way I was raised made zero sense to me as a kid (no bacon at home! no milk with dinner! but outside the house, do whatever you want) so that one was out the second I left the natal nest. As I've gotten older the connections to my extended family have become even more important to me, which is why we celebrate holidays together, and for me this fills the space that a shul might otherwise fill (the "community" piece). But I can't see my way clear to having a Christmas tree in my house, or even an advent calendar for that matter (decision: made!).

OP - while I am a Conservative/Masorti Jew, one of the things I like about Reform is its insistence on making conscious personal decisions on all questions (of course other Jews inevitably make deliberate choices too, but its not as much a question of choice as a principle)

While I may have been harsh in the above posts, I congratulate you on thinking these things through to determine how to apply your own values. I hope you have a very happy hanukkah, and I also hope you and your child can enjoy the general holiday season, on your own terms.

[Anonymous]

OP again. I'm taking a very active role in educating DD about Judaism and (to the extent I can) other religions too. She can tell you the story of Passover. She knows why we celebrate Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur. Personally I think the story of Hanukkah is a glorified street battle and I hate that it's been commercialized within an inch of its life to compete with Christmas, but whatever, she knows the oil burned for 8 days instead of 1 and that a great miracle happened there. She likes to learn about the "why" behind all holidays -- just last month she asked me why we celebrate Halloween, so I got to take a deep dive into Celtic history and how as Christianity spread to Britain the church co-opted the people's ancient traditions to turn what was an earth-based celebration of the new year into the witches and trick-or-treats we think of today. I know it's not the same as her being in Hebrew School, but it's not nothing.

[Anonymous]

Thanks, 14:33! You, too!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, this joyful time of year... we're pretty lax Jews, i.e. we don't belong to a shul but we celebrate holidays with family, and I feel my daughter is learning enough about her culture to keep the meaningful traditions alive. I myself grew up in an overwhelmingly Catholic town in New England as one of three Jewish kids in our elementary school, so the DMV is obviously extremely diverse by comparison! However it is simply an unavoidable fact of American life that all things Christmas are the norm at this time of year (decorations, music, movies, sales -- basically anything that can be "themed"). And naturally my 7yo has noticed that only Christmas stuff is everywhere, not Hanukkah. And she's started pointing out how it's "not fair" for this to be the case. I've been explaining how Hanukkah isn't really on a par with Christmas in terms of the religious significance of the holiday and how the marketing aspects of the two holidays came to be (never too early to start explaining America's true religion: capitalism!) but she really loves the concept of the advent calendar and wants to get one. I know for her it's all about the little surprises behind the little doors, and as I said, we're pretty lax Jews, but I just can't wrap my head around this. It's giving me flashbacks to my own childhood when I strongly advocated for the right to decorate a Hanukkah Bush in lieu of a Christmas Tree, and it was a total nonstarter in my family (a la Tevya: TRADITION!). I don't even fully understand the concept of advent, except as a countdown to Christmas, but I know it has some religious significance and it would feel weird to have one in my house. I should probably just buy some extra gelt and keep it around for distraction anytime she mentions the advent calendar. But I know this is part of the larger lifelong conversation about religion, American secular traditions, and where lax Jews like us fit into it all, so I'm trying to handle it appropriately without invoking my Tevya genes, and without completely capitulating to the capitalist urges that make the whole thing as problematic as possible. Thoughts on this, oh DCUM readers? Happy Holidays!

I really, really, really do NOT want to judge you, but I think you just may be a TAD unrealistic? Unless you live in an overwhelmingly Jewish neighborhood (which it sounds like you do not) I don't think you can easily maintain a distinct Jewish identity, let alone the traditions, without membership in a synagogue (in theory you could in some other Jewish institution with the same level of community and commitment and regular attendance, but AFAICT no such institution exists around here).

If you want to be secular, and also guarantee the kids are unassimilated, you probably need to move to NYC, or maybe even to Israel.

Not true. I grew up in rural middle America, a strongly identified Jew. How did we do it? My parents did not give in and allow us to assimilate. I'd suggest that if you want to remain identified Jews, you do not agree to advent calendars, do not agree to a tree, to lights, etc. It feels mean but try to focus on that you're giving her something (a strong understanding of her Jewish identity) rather than just denying her something (an advent calendar).

Additionally, I think it might be worth noting that Jews do count time: we count the Omer, which is the time between Passover and Shavuos. It might be fun to try to make an Omer calendar for her to use at that time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love all the Christians saying its cool to for OPs DD to countdown to Christmas. Wonder how many of you would be good with your children wanting to light a menorah for 8 nights...

I posted on the first page and I am totally OK with that. I think the main difference is that a lot of Jewish traditions are mentioned in our old testament whereas Christianity is obviously no part of Judaism.

I am a Christian also, active in my church, teach Sunday school, say grace before meals etc. We always light a menorah for Chanukah. My kids love it, it looks pretty on the table and I think it is important for children to learn about other cultures. They are interested so I go with it. I am proud of it! We are still Christian.
If any of my children decide later that they identify with Judaism and wish to convert that is entirely their business. I will celebrate Chanukah with them and expect they will celebrate Christmas with me.
There has to be more to faith than being allowed or not allowed to celebrate holidays. At least that’s how i see it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again. I'm taking a very active role in educating DD about Judaism and (to the extent I can) other religions too. She can tell you the story of Passover. She knows why we celebrate Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur. Personally I think the story of Hanukkah is a glorified street battle and I hate that it's been commercialized within an inch of its life to compete with Christmas, but whatever, she knows the oil burned for 8 days instead of 1 and that a great miracle happened there. She likes to learn about the "why" behind all holidays -- just last month she asked me why we celebrate Halloween, so I got to take a deep dive into Celtic history and how as Christianity spread to Britain the church co-opted the people's ancient traditions to turn what was an earth-based celebration of the new year into the witches and trick-or-treats we think of today. I know it's not the same as her being in Hebrew School, but it's not nothing.

Just so you know, there is more to Hanukkah than either the military nationalist stuff, or the commercial pseudo christmas stuff.

Hanukkah in origin was really a substitute Sukkos. The reason for the 8 days was probably (sorry, very sorry) not a miracle with oil, but because the Temple was under Seleucid control during sukkos - which is 8 days. And is celebrated with plants and stuff (the original menorot may have been plants with oil lamps - take that, christmas tree). Sukkos is when Solomon dedicated the Temple, so Hanukkah (lit "dedication") as the time of rededication is an echo of it.

Its also the only significant post biblical holiday. Which for those of us who consider being post biblical Jews important, makes it especially important.

have fun exploring.

[Anonymous]

I didn't know that, and I went to Hebrew School until 9th grade! Thanks!

[Anonymous]

http://orami.org/worship/holidays/chanukah/chanukah-as-a-second-sukkot

[Anonymous]

And an Orthodox perspective

http://www.yeshiva.co/midrash/shiur.asp?id=5449