we're Jewish, 7yo daughter wants advent calendar

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I hate to say this, but I'm a Christian and I find your attitude a little offensive. Advent calendars are not "cultural symbols." Advent is a holy time in the Christian faith, counting down the weeks until the birth of the savior. Churches celebrate each Sunday in a special way.

Sorry, but to me, this is on par with the "cultural appropriation" whining that liberals love to do.

Get over yourself; Christians didn’t invent counting down to a special event. Is “Space Oddity” Christian cultural appropriation, too?

(Jew here) Didnt christians invent the idea of having a calendar with little windows you open up as part of the countdown, though? Its not the same thing as just counting down.

Its not cultural appropriation, because the culture doing the borrowing is the weaker culture, not the dominant one. And its not like Christians can really
complain about cultural appropriation by Jews anyway, eh? But it does seem like a distinctively Christian custom with real religious content.

What do little windows have to do with Christianity? A calendar maker in Germany invented the little windows. I’m sure you’ve used something in your life invented by a Christian before. I see this as no different.

Anyway, we’re Hindu and have done Elf on the Shelf, Lego advent calendars, the tree, the stockings, etc. There is a huge American culture component to this holiday and it’s woven into the American fabric. So we enjoy this part of it.

1. I don't know exactly what a calendar with little windows has to do with Christianity, as I am not a Christian. I do know its a custom that is not used by anyone, afaict, except in connection with Advent and Christmas.
2. Using a neutral technology invented by Christians is not the same as adopting a holiday custom.
3. Since you are a Hindu, I am not sure why you are giving advice to a Jew. I don't give advice to Hindus on how to adopt to the aspects of American culture that overlap with religion. It may just be possible that our different civilizations/faiths/traditions deal with things a bit differently, eh?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Advent is a “little Lent”. It is a mournful time in which we travel in a spiritual sense with the Holy Family as they search for a place to stay. The joyful feast of Christmas does not begin until Christmas Eve or Day depending on the tradition. Advent should not be a “countdown” to Christmas, but rather a time of spiritual preparation for receiving Christ.

This may be the church perception of advent, but Christians observe it or not in different ways and if a Jewish kid wants to observe it too, in her own way why not?

Because the parents may not want her to? To the extend Judaism has survived in America, its because parents were able to say "no" when they needed to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I hate to say this, but I'm a Christian and I find your attitude a little offensive. Advent calendars are not "cultural symbols." Advent is a holy time in the Christian faith, counting down the weeks until the birth of the savior. Churches celebrate each Sunday in a special way.

Sorry, but to me, this is on par with the "cultural appropriation" whining that liberals love to do.

Get over yourself; Christians didn’t invent counting down to a special event. Is “Space Oddity” Christian cultural appropriation, too?

(Jew here) Didnt christians invent the idea of having a calendar with little windows you open up as part of the countdown, though? Its not the same thing as just counting down.

Its not cultural appropriation, because the culture doing the borrowing is the weaker culture, not the dominant one. And its not like Christians can really complain about cultural appropriation by Jews anyway, eh? But it does seem like a distinctively Christian custom with real religious content.

And this, ladies and gentkemen, confirms yet again that liberals are nothing but hypocrites.

I am not quite sure what the above sentence is in reference to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm Jewish and I wouldn't do it, OP. It's funny because just today, my 15 year old DS told me his favorite holiday is Christmas. But, he means it in general - in the public excitement, of peppermint candy, school breaks and decorations. But as a family, we don't celebrate Christmas - we celebrate our own holidays.

I love that he loves Christmas and usually helps decorate a friends' tree. And gives Christmas gifts to those who celebrate and generally loves to buy gingerbread smelling soap or whatever.

But he is being raised Jewish, we encourage our holidays with our family and the love of our religion and it's celebrations. I think it's an opportunity to teach your kid more about being Jewish --- and not just a copy cat countdown calendar or whatever. Figure out what you want her to learn about Chanukah and start teaching.

Being raised a Christian doesn't prevent me from enjoying matzah ball soup, or loving the All of a Kind Family books, or playing the dreidel game. Chinese New Year is pretty cool too. Raising a child in your religion, shouldn't mean the exclusion of enjoying other cultural traditions.

But you are not a Jew, and you are not familiar either with the particular rules within the Jewish religion about taking on customs not our own, nor about the challenges of maintaining our civilization as a small minority. Nor raising a Jewish child in this world. In fact you may not even be aware that Judaism is not just a "religion" but a civilization and culture that goes well beyond what Christians define as "religion"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We're atheists and the kids basically want a box of chocolates where they open one each day, and I say what the heck, give it to them.

After years of this, I assure you they show no particular interest in Christianity. I doubt your kid will be infected either.

They may not be interested in Christianity, but they will likely end up as more generic atheists, rather than Jewish identifying as you seem to be (if you are gentile atheists, I am also not sure why you are responding to OP)

What people don't seem to get is that this not necessarily about religious conversion - its not that doing an advent calendar will make her accept Jesus as her savior or something. Its a question of identity, and the way holiday celebrations create identity.

[Anonymous]

We are atheists and my kids were obsessed with calendars when they were little so we had an "advent calendar". I put in little candies and/or little notes with activities (go look at holiday lights, etc.). It's really just a countdown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh, this joyful time of year... we're pretty lax Jews, i.e. we don't belong to a shul but we celebrate holidays with family, and I feel my daughter is learning enough about her culture to keep the meaningful traditions alive. I myself grew up in an overwhelmingly Catholic town in New England as one of three Jewish kids in our elementary school, so the DMV is obviously extremely diverse by comparison! However it is simply an unavoidable fact of American life that all things Christmas are the norm at this time of year (decorations, music, movies, sales -- basically anything that can be "themed"). And naturally my 7yo has noticed that only Christmas stuff is everywhere, not Hanukkah. And she's started pointing out how it's "not fair" for this to be the case. I've been explaining how Hanukkah isn't really on a par with Christmas in terms of the religious significance of the holiday and how the marketing aspects of the two holidays came to be (never too early to start explaining America's true religion: capitalism!) but she really loves the concept of the advent calendar and wants to get one. I know for her it's all about the little surprises behind the little doors, and as I said, we're pretty lax Jews, but I just can't wrap my head around this. It's giving me flashbacks to my own childhood when I strongly advocated for the right to decorate a Hanukkah Bush in lieu of a Christmas Tree, and it was a total nonstarter in my family (a la Tevya: TRADITION!). I don't even fully understand the concept of advent, except as a countdown to Christmas, but I know it has some religious significance and it would feel weird to have one in my house. I should probably just buy some extra gelt and keep it around for distraction anytime she mentions the advent calendar. But I know this is part of the larger lifelong conversation about religion, American secular traditions, and where lax Jews like us fit into it all, so I'm trying to handle it appropriately without invoking my Tevya genes, and without completely capitulating to the capitalist urges that make the whole thing as problematic as possible. Thoughts on this, oh DCUM readers? Happy Holidays!

Discover the joy of the paragraph.

[Anonymous]

Love all the Christians saying its cool to for OPs DD to countdown to Christmas. Wonder how many of you would be good with your children wanting to light a menorah for 8 nights...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Love all the Christians saying its cool to for OPs DD to countdown to Christmas. Wonder how many of you would be good with your children wanting to light a menorah for 8 nights...

Or celebrate a family that allowed themselves to be martyred rather than eat pork? Or celebrate a woman who cut off the head of an enemy general?

[Anonymous]

Wow, DCUM never disappoints! This is the OP. I genuinely appreciate the dialogue here (even the snark).

For the record, I did say in my original post that I know the advent calendar has religious significance, as opposed to just being a cultural symbol. Hence my reluctance to bring it into our home, even though we're clearly secular/cultural Jews (as opposed to observant/religious Jews). I especially appreciate hearing from those who identify with the more religious aspects of the Christmas season as to why they find secular advent calendars problematic -- and I agree, they should just be called "holiday countdown calendars" and that way they would probably sell a heckuva lot more and everyone would win! Think of the marketing possibilities there... you could customize it for whatever holiday you're counting down to and sell little candies or toys separately to fit the season... but I digress.

To the PP who said I am overthinking this -- of course I am! As I do everything related to how to integrate Judaism into our family's life. We haven't enrolled DD in Sunday School because I am still not sure how much "Jewishness" I personally want to raise her with. She goes to shul with my dad 1-2 times/month, she's learning about the cycle of holidays, she identifies as Jewish in the sense that she knows we celebrate Hanukkah (not Christmas) and Passover (not Easter). The one thing I do know is that I don't want to raise her the way I was raised (traditional egalitarian conservative Jewish experience of the 1980s).

I think a chocolate a day is the way to go here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, DCUM never disappoints! This is the OP. I genuinely appreciate the dialogue here (even the snark).

For the record, I did say in my original post that I know the advent calendar has religious significance, as opposed to just being a cultural symbol. Hence my reluctance to bring it into our home, even though we're clearly secular/cultural Jews (as opposed to observant/religious Jews). I especially appreciate hearing from those who identify with the more religious aspects of the Christmas season as to why they find secular advent calendars problematic -- and I agree, they should just be called "holiday countdown calendars" and that way they would probably sell a heckuva lot more and everyone would win! Think of the marketing possibilities there... you could customize it for whatever holiday you're counting down to and sell little candies or toys separately to fit the season... but I digress.

To the PP who said I am overthinking this -- of course I am! As I do everything related to how to integrate Judaism into our family's life. We haven't enrolled DD in Sunday School because I am still not sure how much "Jewishness" I personally want to raise her with. She goes to shul with my dad 1-2 times/month, she's learning about the cycle of holidays, she identifies as Jewish in the sense that she knows we celebrate Hanukkah (not Christmas) and Passover (not Easter). The one thing I do know is that I don't want to raise her the way I was raised (traditional egalitarian conservative Jewish experience of the 1980s).

I think a chocolate a day is the way to go here.

Get the Hanukkah count down calendar! Teaches a bit about Judaism, checks off her box for advent calendar.

[Anonymous]

I was raised Christian, but am an atheist and am raising an atheist child. She wanted an advent calendar when she was little, and I got her one. Using it made me feel really wrong - advent is a religious thing. Co-opting the advent calendar to use as a countdown and ignoring the rest of advent seemed insulting to those who follow Christianity. We celebrate (cultural) Christmas, so I'm inconsistent.

We made our own countdown calendar. We do little toys or bits of candy in numbered boxes. We start our countdown on the friday after Thanksgiving, although in retrospect we should have started on Dec 1 so it would always be the same number of days.

[Anonymous]

Why can't you just say "No, that's for people who celebrate Christmas, and we don't believe in that"? Does nobody say no to their kids anymore?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why can't you just say "No, that's for people who celebrate Christmas, and we don't believe in that"? Does nobody say no to their kids anymore?

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Love all the Christians saying its cool to for OPs DD to countdown to Christmas. Wonder how many of you would be good with your children wanting to light a menorah for 8 nights...

I posted on the first page and I am totally OK with that. I think the main difference is that a lot of Jewish traditions are mentioned in our old testament whereas Christianity is obviously no part of Judaism.