we're Jewish, 7yo daughter wants advent calendar

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I hate to say this, but I'm a Christian and I find your attitude a little offensive. Advent calendars are not "cultural symbols." Advent is a holy time in the Christian faith, counting down the weeks until the birth of the savior. Churches celebrate each Sunday in a special way.

Sorry, but to me, this is on par with the "cultural appropriation" whining that liberals love to do.

Get over yourself; Christians didn’t invent counting down to a special event. Is “Space Oddity” Christian cultural appropriation, too?

(Jew here) Didnt christians invent the idea of having a calendar with little windows you open up as part of the countdown, though? Its not the same thing as just counting down.

Its not cultural appropriation, because the culture doing the borrowing is the weaker culture, not the dominant one. And its not like Christians can really
complain about cultural appropriation by Jews anyway, eh? But it does seem like a distinctively Christian custom with real religious content.

What do little windows have to do with Christianity? A calendar maker in Germany invented the little windows. I’m sure you’ve used something in your life invented by a Christian before. I see this as no different.

Anyway, we’re Hindu and have done Elf on the Shelf, Lego advent calendars, the tree, the stockings, etc. There is a huge American culture component to this holiday and it’s woven into the American fabric. So we enjoy this part of it.

THere is nothing American about the Adventkalender--it's German. You could not even buy one here outside of German specialty shops 20 yrs ago.

[Anonymous]

OP- I was like your 7 year old DD. I swear I was the only Jewish girl in my school and my parents were very laid back nonreligious Jews. I just wanted to experience what everyone else was experiencing ! My parents in a very caring way would not give in explaining that we were Jewish! I ended up marrying someone who isn’t Jewish and I now get to enjoy all the Christmas traditions with my children. However my interest about my Jewish background has grown as I have gotten older.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We're atheists and the kids basically want a box of chocolates where they open one each day, and I say what the heck, give it to them.

After years of this, I assure you they show no particular interest in Christianity. I doubt your kid will be infected either.

Affected not infected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Advent is a “little Lent”. It is a mournful time in which we travel in a spiritual sense with the Holy Family as they search for a place to stay. The joyful feast of Christmas does not begin until Christmas Eve or Day depending on the tradition. Advent should not be a “countdown” to Christmas, but rather a time of spiritual preparation for receiving Christ.

Yes, but "Advent Calendars" have nothing to do with the religious aspects of Advent. They don't even start at the start of Advent. They start on December 1st, and they are all about counting down to the 25th.

Growing up, the German advent calendars we had were sometimes religious, in that you opened the door and saw something that was related in some way to the Christmas story (e.g. a picture of a sheep) and then on Christmas Eve, you opened one with a picture of Jesus in the manger. But other years they were pictures of toys.

I would put Advent Calendars in the same category as Christmas trees, The Night Before Christmas, etc. . . definitely culturally Christian, but not a lot of religious content. As an atheist family of Christian origin, we don't think twice about doing them, but I can see why a family with distinct traditions might not want to.

I totally agree that, if you wanted to, you could do some kind of Hanukkah count down that would have the same idea, with a different end date. Or you could just tell your kid "I'm sorry, that's not something we're doing. We have our own traditions, do you want to play dreidl?" Neither is wrong.

I'll also say that while I enjoyed the Advent calendars with pictures, and my kid did too, I think that Advent calendars where you actually get stuff are a bit much. You've got a ton of presents coming. You don't need 24 more presents, even tiny ones, to get ready for the big one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I hate to say this, but I'm a Christian and I find your attitude a little offensive. Advent calendars are not "cultural symbols." Advent is a holy time in the Christian faith, counting down the weeks until the birth of the savior. Churches celebrate each Sunday in a special way.

Sorry, but to me, this is on par with the "cultural appropriation" whining that liberals love to do.

Get over yourself; Christians didn’t invent counting down to a special event. Is “Space Oddity” Christian cultural appropriation, too?

(Jew here) Didnt christians invent the idea of having a calendar with little windows you open up as part of the countdown, though? Its not the same thing as just counting down.

Its not cultural appropriation, because the culture doing the borrowing is the weaker culture, not the dominant one. And its not like Christians can really
complain about cultural appropriation by Jews anyway, eh? But it does seem like a distinctively Christian custom with real religious content.

What do little windows have to do with Christianity? A calendar maker in Germany invented the little windows. I’m sure you’ve used something in your life invented by a Christian before. I see this as no different.

Anyway, we’re Hindu and have done Elf on the Shelf, Lego advent calendars, the tree, the stockings, etc. There is a huge American culture component to this holiday and it’s woven into the American fabric. So we enjoy this part of it.

THere is nothing American about the Adventkalender--it's German. You could not even buy one here outside of German specialty shops 20 yrs ago.

Of course you could. Germans popularized Christmas trees indoors too. Doesn't mean they had the monopoly of selling them in the states.

[Anonymous]

Poster on the upper left is an advent calendar:



Advent originated with the catholic, Greek Orthodox, and Coptic churches.

Op, your kid just wants to have a chocolate a day this month. It has nothing to do with Christmas or Christianity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've seen countdown to Hanukkah calendars in several places in the last few days. One was felt with pockets for treats. Of course now i can't recall where it was (Paper Sources? Crate & Barrel?) but it wouldn't be hard to either find it or recreate it. Nothing wrong with counting down to the beginning of hannukkah with chocolate or whatever.

Advent calendars are crazy now. I just got an advent calendar from Occitane so I will be counting down with lotions and scents. There are also beer calendars and whisky calendars.

Practicing Christian here.

It always bothers me that they call those things Advent calendars...because they are not at all about Advent or even remotely Christian/religious. I wish they would call them "Holiday Countdown Calenders" or something similar.

These calenders are about the only Christmas item that I wish they would call generic "holiday". Advent is an important time of spiritual preparation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I hate to say this, but I'm a Christian and I find your attitude a little offensive. Advent calendars are not "cultural symbols." Advent is a holy time in the Christian faith, counting down the weeks until the birth of the savior. Churches celebrate each Sunday in a special way.

Sorry, but to me, this is on par with the "cultural appropriation" whining that liberals love to do.

Get over yourself; Christians didn’t invent counting down to a special event. Is “Space Oddity” Christian cultural appropriation, too?

(Jew here) Didnt christians invent the idea of having a calendar with little windows you open up as part of the countdown, though? Its not the same thing as just counting down.

Its not cultural appropriation, because the culture doing the borrowing is the weaker culture, not the dominant one. And its not like Christians can really
complain about cultural appropriation by Jews anyway, eh? But it does seem like a distinctively Christian custom with real religious content.

What do little windows have to do with Christianity? A calendar maker in Germany invented the little windows. I’m sure you’ve used something in your life invented by a Christian before. I see this as no different.

Anyway, we’re Hindu and have done Elf on the Shelf, Lego advent calendars, the tree, the stockings, etc. There is a huge American culture component to this holiday and it’s woven into the American fabric. So we enjoy this part of it.

THere is nothing American about the Adventkalender--it's German. You could not even buy one here outside of German specialty shops 20 yrs ago.

Many, many of our American traditions come from Europe. That melting pot is part of the fabric of our culture.

[Anonymous]

I'm Jewish and I wouldn't do it, OP. It's funny because just today, my 15 year old DS told me his favorite holiday is Christmas. But, he means it in general - in the public excitement, of peppermint candy, school breaks and decorations. But as a family, we don't celebrate Christmas - we celebrate our own holidays.

I love that he loves Christmas and usually helps decorate a friends' tree. And gives Christmas gifts to those who celebrate and generally loves to buy gingerbread smelling soap or whatever.

But he is being raised Jewish, we encourage our holidays with our family and the love of our religion and it's celebrations. I think it's an opportunity to teach your kid more about being Jewish --- and not just a copy cat countdown calendar or whatever. Figure out what you want her to learn about Chanukah and start teaching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I hate to say this, but I'm a Christian and I find your attitude a little offensive. Advent calendars are not "cultural symbols." Advent is a holy time in the Christian faith, counting down the weeks until the birth of the savior. Churches celebrate each Sunday in a special way.

Sorry, but to me, this is on par with the "cultural appropriation" whining that liberals love to do.

Get over yourself; Christians didn’t invent counting down to a special event. Is “Space Oddity” Christian cultural appropriation, too?

(Jew here) Didnt christians invent the idea of having a calendar with little windows you open up as part of the countdown, though? Its not the same thing as just counting down.

Its not cultural appropriation, because the culture doing the borrowing is the weaker culture, not the dominant one. And its not like Christians can really
complain about cultural appropriation by Jews anyway, eh? But it does seem like a distinctively Christian custom with real religious content.

What do little windows have to do with Christianity? A calendar maker in Germany invented the little windows. I’m sure you’ve used something in your life invented by a Christian before. I see this as no different.

Anyway, we’re Hindu and have done Elf on the Shelf, Lego advent calendars, the tree, the stockings, etc. There is a huge American culture component to this holiday and it’s woven into the American fabric. So we enjoy this part of it.

THere is nothing American about the Adventkalender--it's German. You could not even buy one here outside of German specialty shops 20 yrs ago.

I’m not sure of the origins, but we had one in my late 60s/early 79s childhood in Boston. They go back much further than 20 years in the us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t see any harm in counting down to Christmas. I agree with pp, if the child is looking to learn or experience something greater than getting candy, then do that and learn about what advent is together. If your dd is looking to get candy every morning, do a separate countdown with your own homemade calendar.

Would you feel the same way if your child wanted to do a countdown to Hanukah or Ramadan?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I hate to say this, but I'm a Christian and I find your attitude a little offensive. Advent calendars are not "cultural symbols." Advent is a holy time in the Christian faith, counting down the weeks until the birth of the savior. Churches celebrate each Sunday in a special way.

Sorry, but to me, this is on par with the "cultural appropriation" whining that liberals love to do.

Get over yourself; Christians didn’t invent counting down to a special event. Is “Space Oddity” Christian cultural appropriation, too?

(Jew here) Didnt christians invent the idea of having a calendar with little windows you open up as part of the countdown, though? Its not the same thing as just counting down.

Its not cultural appropriation, because the culture doing the borrowing is the weaker culture, not the dominant one. And its not like Christians can really
complain about cultural appropriation by Jews anyway, eh? But it does seem like a distinctively Christian custom with real religious content.

What do little windows have to do with Christianity? A calendar maker in Germany invented the little windows. I’m sure you’ve used something in your life invented by a Christian before. I see this as no different.

Anyway, we’re Hindu and have done Elf on the Shelf, Lego advent calendars, the tree, the stockings, etc. There is a huge American culture component to this holiday and it’s woven into the American fabric. So we enjoy this part of it.

THere is nothing American about the Adventkalender--it's German. You could not even buy one here outside of German specialty shops 20 yrs ago.

I’m not sure of the origins, but we had one in my late 60s/early 79s childhood in Boston. They go back much further than 20 years in the us.

We had one in our small Pennsylvania town 40 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I hate to say this, but I'm a Christian and I find your attitude a little offensive. Advent calendars are not "cultural symbols." Advent is a holy time in the Christian faith, counting down the weeks until the birth of the savior. Churches celebrate each Sunday in a special way.

Sorry, but to me, this is on par with the "cultural appropriation" whining that liberals love to do.

Get over yourself; Christians didn’t invent counting down to a special event. Is “Space Oddity” Christian cultural appropriation, too?

(Jew here) Didnt christians invent the idea of having a calendar with little windows you open up as part of the countdown, though? Its not the same thing as just counting down.

Its not cultural appropriation, because the culture doing the borrowing is the weaker culture, not the dominant one. And its not like Christians can really
complain about cultural appropriation by Jews anyway, eh? But it does seem like a distinctively Christian custom with real religious content.

What do little windows have to do with Christianity? A calendar maker in Germany invented the little windows. I’m sure you’ve used something in your life invented by a Christian before. I see this as no different.

Anyway, we’re Hindu and have done Elf on the Shelf, Lego advent calendars, the tree, the stockings, etc. There is a huge American culture component to this holiday and it’s woven into the American fabric. So we enjoy this part of it.

THere is nothing American about the Adventkalender--it's German. You could not even buy one here outside of German specialty shops 20 yrs ago.

I'm the Hindu pp, I'm 40 and had them growing up here in a mid sized town in the South. My dad also got a beautiful painted wooden one from his work way back then, so they've definitely been around longer than 20 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm Jewish and I wouldn't do it, OP. It's funny because just today, my 15 year old DS told me his favorite holiday is Christmas. But, he means it in general - in the public excitement, of peppermint candy, school breaks and decorations. But as a family, we don't celebrate Christmas - we celebrate our own holidays.

I love that he loves Christmas and usually helps decorate a friends' tree. And gives Christmas gifts to those who celebrate and generally loves to buy gingerbread smelling soap or whatever.

But he is being raised Jewish, we encourage our holidays with our family and the love of our religion and it's celebrations. I think it's an opportunity to teach your kid more about being Jewish --- and not just a copy cat countdown calendar or whatever. Figure out what you want her to learn about Chanukah and start teaching.

Being raised a Christian doesn't prevent me from enjoying matzah ball soup, or loving the All of a Kind Family books, or playing the dreidel game. Chinese New Year is pretty cool too. Raising a child in your religion, shouldn't mean the exclusion of enjoying other cultural traditions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, this joyful time of year... we're pretty lax Jews, i.e. we don't belong to a shul but we celebrate holidays with family, and I feel my daughter is learning enough about her culture to keep the meaningful traditions alive. I myself grew up in an overwhelmingly Catholic town in New England as one of three Jewish kids in our elementary school, so the DMV is obviously extremely diverse by comparison! However it is simply an unavoidable fact of American life that all things Christmas are the norm at this time of year (decorations, music, movies, sales -- basically anything that can be "themed"). And naturally my 7yo has noticed that only Christmas stuff is everywhere, not Hanukkah. And she's started pointing out how it's "not fair" for this to be the case. I've been explaining how Hanukkah isn't really on a par with Christmas in terms of the religious significance of the holiday and how the marketing aspects of the two holidays came to be (never too early to start explaining America's true religion: capitalism!) but she really loves the concept of the advent calendar and wants to get one. I know for her it's all about the little surprises behind the little doors, and as I said, we're pretty lax Jews, but I just can't wrap my head around this. It's giving me flashbacks to my own childhood when I strongly advocated for the right to decorate a Hanukkah Bush in lieu of a Christmas Tree, and it was a total nonstarter in my family (a la Tevya: TRADITION!). I don't even fully understand the concept of advent, except as a countdown to Christmas, but I know it has some religious significance and it would feel weird to have one in my house. I should probably just buy some extra gelt and keep it around for distraction anytime she mentions the advent calendar. But I know this is part of the larger lifelong conversation about religion, American secular traditions, and where lax Jews like us fit into it all, so I'm trying to handle it appropriately without invoking my Tevya genes, and without completely capitulating to the capitalist urges that make the whole thing as problematic as possible. Thoughts on this, oh DCUM readers? Happy Holidays!

I really, really, really do NOT want to judge you, but I think you just may be a TAD unrealistic? Unless you live in an overwhelmingly Jewish neighborhood (which it sounds like you do not) I don't think you can easily maintain a distinct Jewish identity, let alone the traditions, without membership in a synagogue (in theory you could in some other Jewish institution with the same level of community and commitment and regular attendance, but AFAICT no such institution exists around here).

If you want to be secular, and also guarantee the kids are unassimilated, you probably need to move to NYC, or maybe even to Israel.

100% agree. If she's not in sunday school at that age, how is she supposed to develop a knowledge of her religion and a connection to her faith. You're just assuming cause she lights a menorah she's gonna get it? If you want her to be a practicing Jew, which it seems like you do, you need to foster that.

Me, too. Lots of rationalizing in this post. You aren't providing anough of a full Jewish experience, but rather Jewish lite. That is fine, if this is where you are sprirtually, but you really aren't doing enough for her to develop a deeper commitment. Do that, and the advent calendar probably doesn't come up.

Right now, she just wants daily chocolate and has no context for why an advent calendar isn't a good idea.