we're Jewish, 7yo daughter wants advent calendar

[Anonymous]

*blond

[Anonymous]

I bet she just wants a countdown calendar with small toys, gifts, and candy as a little surprise everyday. We’re atheists but I would let my kid have one. The concept of advent is obviously Christian but the countdown to a special day or days is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, this joyful time of year... we're pretty lax Jews, i.e. we don't belong to a shul but we celebrate holidays with family, and I feel my daughter is learning enough about her culture to keep the meaningful traditions alive. I myself grew up in an overwhelmingly Catholic town in New England as one of three Jewish kids in our elementary school, so the DMV is obviously extremely diverse by comparison! However it is simply an unavoidable fact of American life that all things Christmas are the norm at this time of year (decorations, music, movies, sales -- basically anything that can be "themed"). And naturally my 7yo has noticed that only Christmas stuff is everywhere, not Hanukkah. And she's started pointing out how it's "not fair" for this to be the case. I've been explaining how Hanukkah isn't really on a par with Christmas in terms of the religious significance of the holiday and how the marketing aspects of the two holidays came to be (never too early to start explaining America's true religion: capitalism!) but she really loves the concept of the advent calendar and wants to get one. I know for her it's all about the little surprises behind the little doors, and as I said, we're pretty lax Jews, but I just can't wrap my head around this. It's giving me flashbacks to my own childhood when I strongly advocated for the right to decorate a Hanukkah Bush in lieu of a Christmas Tree, and it was a total nonstarter in my family (a la Tevya: TRADITION!). I don't even fully understand the concept of advent, except as a countdown to Christmas, but I know it has some religious significance and it would feel weird to have one in my house. I should probably just buy some extra gelt and keep it around for distraction anytime she mentions the advent calendar. But I know this is part of the larger lifelong conversation about religion, American secular traditions, and where lax Jews like us fit into it all, so I'm trying to handle it appropriately without invoking my Tevya genes, and without completely capitulating to the capitalist urges that make the whole thing as problematic as possible. Thoughts on this, oh DCUM readers? Happy Holidays!

I really, really, really do NOT want to judge you, but I think you just may be a TAD unrealistic? Unless you live in an overwhelmingly Jewish neighborhood (which it sounds like you do not) I don't think you can easily maintain a distinct Jewish identity, let alone the traditions, without membership in a synagogue (in theory you could in some other Jewish institution with the same level of community and commitment and regular attendance, but AFAICT no such institution exists around here).

If you want to be secular, and also guarantee the kids are unassimilated, you probably need to move to NYC, or maybe even to Israel.

+1 What are the traditions you want her to have? I also don't want to judge, but realistically, without joining a shul, it isn't likely your kid will learn the skills to be Jewish as opposed to just culturally Jewish. If actually doing the Jewish things beyond the Tevya-traditions isn't for you, not sure why it matters if you have an advent calendar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I hate to say this, but I'm a Christian and I find your attitude a little offensive. Advent calendars are not "cultural symbols." Advent is a holy time in the Christian faith, counting down the weeks until the birth of the savior. Churches celebrate each Sunday in a special way.

Sorry, but to me, this is on par with the "cultural appropriation" whining that liberals love to do.

LOL. Other Christian here. It's funny how people outraged by cultural appropriation whining are so quick to jump on the cultural appropriation bandwagon when it suits them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, this joyful time of year... we're pretty lax Jews, i.e. we don't belong to a shul but we celebrate holidays with family, and I feel my daughter is learning enough about her culture to keep the meaningful traditions alive. I myself grew up in an overwhelmingly Catholic town in New England as one of three Jewish kids in our elementary school, so the DMV is obviously extremely diverse by comparison! However it is simply an unavoidable fact of American life that all things Christmas are the norm at this time of year (decorations, music, movies, sales -- basically anything that can be "themed"). And naturally my 7yo has noticed that only Christmas stuff is everywhere, not Hanukkah. And she's started pointing out how it's "not fair" for this to be the case. I've been explaining how Hanukkah isn't really on a par with Christmas in terms of the religious significance of the holiday and how the marketing aspects of the two holidays came to be (never too early to start explaining America's true religion: capitalism!) but she really loves the concept of the advent calendar and wants to get one. I know for her it's all about the little surprises behind the little doors, and as I said, we're pretty lax Jews, but I just can't wrap my head around this. It's giving me flashbacks to my own childhood when I strongly advocated for the right to decorate a Hanukkah Bush in lieu of a Christmas Tree, and it was a total nonstarter in my family (a la Tevya: TRADITION!). I don't even fully understand the concept of advent, except as a countdown to Christmas, but I know it has some religious significance and it would feel weird to have one in my house. I should probably just buy some extra gelt and keep it around for distraction anytime she mentions the advent calendar. But I know this is part of the larger lifelong conversation about religion, American secular traditions, and where lax Jews like us fit into it all, so I'm trying to handle it appropriately without invoking my Tevya genes, and without completely capitulating to the capitalist urges that make the whole thing as problematic as possible. Thoughts on this, oh DCUM readers? Happy Holidays!

I really, really, really do NOT want to judge you, but I think you just may be a TAD unrealistic? Unless you live in an overwhelmingly Jewish neighborhood (which it sounds like you do not) I don't think you can easily maintain a distinct Jewish identity, let alone the traditions, without membership in a synagogue (in theory you could in some other Jewish institution with the same level of community and commitment and regular attendance, but AFAICT no such institution exists around here).

If you want to be secular, and also guarantee the kids are unassimilated, you probably need to move to NYC, or maybe even to Israel.

+1 What are the traditions you want her to have? I also don't want to judge, but realistically, without joining a shul, it isn't likely your kid will learn the skills to be Jewish as opposed to just culturally Jewish. If actually doing the Jewish things beyond the Tevya-traditions isn't for you, not sure why it matters if you have an advent calendar.

I agree. I know this is an old thread, but it's worth mentioning in case anyone is considering this as a realistic option.

If she doesn't go to shul or you teach her yourself, she isn't necessarily going to know even the most basic things like how to say the blessings over the bread and wine at Shabbat. She isn't going to know how to say the shema or Kaddish, much less how to read Torah. If she does ever want to become a practicing Jew, she'll have no idea what to do if she walks into a synagogue. No understanding of the Torah service whatsoever.

We're not very religious either, but are sending our daughter to shul starting at 5 and having her go through Bat Mitzvah, so she has a foundation of knowledge. She can decide to do nothing with it, but if she does want to practice, at least she'll have the basis for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Poster on the upper left is an advent calendar:



Advent originated with the catholic, Greek Orthodox, and Coptic churches.

Op, your kid just wants to have a chocolate a day this month. It has nothing to do with Christmas or Christianity.

+ 1
I assume OP’s kid doesn’t want to abstain from meat and dairy and spend the season of advent in prayerful reflection, like my orthodox relatives. OP’s kid just wants a calendar with cheap milk chocolates. Those commercial advent calendars are not religious and they are not how Christians traditionally observe advent.

[Anonymous]

An advent wreath - definitely religious. An advent calendar with chocolates or toys? Not so much. As a Christian, I am not offended, but I am not sure I understand the point of counting down to a holiday you don't participate in.

I would be in the camp of a countdown to Hanukkah calendar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Poster on the upper left is an advent calendar:



Advent originated with the catholic, Greek Orthodox, and Coptic churches.

Op, your kid just wants to have a chocolate a day this month. It has nothing to do with Christmas or Christianity.

+ 1
I assume OP’s kid doesn’t want to abstain from meat and dairy and spend the season of advent in prayerful reflection, like my orthodox relatives. OP’s kid just wants a calendar with cheap milk chocolates. Those commercial advent calendars are not religious and they are not how Christians traditionally observe advent.

Couldnt they just, you know, abstain from meat when they have dairy and from dairy when they have meat? #kosher #kosherstyle #twosetsofdishes #thegoyimareparvewhoknew

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I hate to say this, but I'm a Christian and I find your attitude a little offensive. Advent calendars are not "cultural symbols." Advent is a holy time in the Christian faith, counting down the weeks until the birth of the savior. Churches celebrate each Sunday in a special way.

Sorry, but to me, this is on par with the "cultural appropriation" whining that liberals love to do.

Get over yourself; Christians didn’t invent counting down to a special event. Is “Space Oddity” Christian cultural appropriation, too?

(Jew here) Didnt christians invent the idea of having a calendar with little windows you open up as part of the countdown, though? Its not the same thing as just counting down.

Its not cultural appropriation, because the culture doing the borrowing is the weaker culture, not the dominant one. And its not like Christians can really
complain about cultural appropriation by Jews anyway, eh? But it does seem like a distinctively Christian custom with real religious content.

What do little windows have to do with Christianity? A calendar maker in Germany invented the little windows. I’m sure you’ve used something in your life invented by a Christian before. I see this as no different.

Anyway, we’re Hindu and have done Elf on the Shelf, Lego advent calendars, the tree, the stockings, etc. There is a huge American culture component to this holiday and it’s woven into the American fabric. So we enjoy this part of it.

THere is nothing American about the Adventkalender--it's German. You could not even buy one here outside of German specialty shops 20 yrs ago.

20 years ago?? We had Advent calendars throughout my entire childhood. I’m over 50. Not German and no German specialty stores. For Christians, Advent calendars have been mainstream MUCH longer than 20 years

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh, this joyful time of year... we're pretty lax Jews, i.e. we don't belong to a shul but we celebrate holidays with family, and I feel my daughter is learning enough about her culture to keep the meaningful traditions alive. I myself grew up in an overwhelmingly Catholic town in New England as one of three Jewish kids in our elementary school, so the DMV is obviously extremely diverse by comparison! However it is simply an unavoidable fact of American life that all things Christmas are the norm at this time of year (decorations, music, movies, sales -- basically anything that can be "themed"). And naturally my 7yo has noticed that only Christmas stuff is everywhere, not Hanukkah. And she's started pointing out how it's "not fair" for this to be the case. I've been explaining how Hanukkah isn't really on a par with Christmas in terms of the religious significance of the holiday and how the marketing aspects of the two holidays came to be (never too early to start explaining America's true religion: capitalism!) but she really loves the concept of the advent calendar and wants to get one. I know for her it's all about the little surprises behind the little doors, and as I said, we're pretty lax Jews, but I just can't wrap my head around this. It's giving me flashbacks to my own childhood when I strongly advocated for the right to decorate a Hanukkah Bush in lieu of a Christmas Tree, and it was a total nonstarter in my family (a la Tevya: TRADITION!). I don't even fully understand the concept of advent, except as a countdown to Christmas, but I know it has some religious significance and it would feel weird to have one in my house. I should probably just buy some extra gelt and keep it around for distraction anytime she mentions the advent calendar. But I know this is part of the larger lifelong conversation about religion, American secular traditions, and where lax Jews like us fit into it all, so I'm trying to handle it appropriately without invoking my Tevya genes, and without completely capitulating to the capitalist urges that make the whole thing as problematic as possible. Thoughts on this, oh DCUM readers? Happy Holidays!

DP I'm sure you didn't mean this but, to me as a Christian it sounds insulting to hear that you are teaching your child that Christmas is mainly capitalism. As if people wouldn't celebrate the birth of Jesus without the mall. Maybe you were trying to be funny but, I just want to say that Christmas is not all about capitalism. If you were somewhere where the majority was Jewish or Muslim would say the same? Somehow I doubt it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I hate to say this, but I'm a Christian and I find your attitude a little offensive. Advent calendars are not "cultural symbols." Advent is a holy time in the Christian faith, counting down the weeks until the birth of the savior. Churches celebrate each Sunday in a special way.

Sorry, but to me, this is on par with the "cultural appropriation" whining that liberals love to do.

I’m Christian and I’m not offended by OP. There’s plenty about the Jewish faith that I don’t understand.

If I were actually looking looking for reasons to take offense, though, I’d be more offended by
- the deliberately obnoxious atheist comparing religion to an infection, and
- your gratuitous rant about liberals (check out your own glass house before throwing stones, pp).

DP think about it pp. The previous poster is correct about "cultural appropriation" and I am not a conservative. If you believe in it than you shouldn't encourage others to appropriate any religion or culture that is not your own. What's good for the goose is also good for the gander

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I hate to say this, but I'm a Christian and I find your attitude a little offensive. Advent calendars are not "cultural symbols." Advent is a holy time in the Christian faith, counting down the weeks until the birth of the savior. Churches celebrate each Sunday in a special way.

Sorry, but to me, this is on par with the "cultural appropriation" whining that liberals love to do.

Get over yourself; Christians didn’t invent counting down to a special event. Is “Space Oddity” Christian cultural appropriation, too?

(Jew here) Didnt christians invent the idea of having a calendar with little windows you open up as part of the countdown, though? Its not the same thing as just counting down.

Its not cultural appropriation, because the culture doing the borrowing is the weaker culture, not the dominant one. And its not like Christians can really complain about cultural appropriation by Jews anyway, eh? But it does seem like a distinctively Christian custom with real religious content.

I don't agree with you that it isn't cultural appropriation. To me it sounds like a way to "catch" the majority and make you feel guilty while being others being free to do what they want. Look, if you believe in cultural appropriation than you can't apply the rules differently to different people regardless of their status of majority or minority. Now if you say you don't believe in it than you also have to allow the majority to "borrow" other cultures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone remembered that Jesus wasn’t even born this time of year?!

Yes, of course we know this. It was created to take place of the pagan holidays.