we're Jewish, 7yo daughter wants advent calendar
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Anonymous
As an aside, you DO know that being egalitarian was still fairly cutting edge in the Conservative/Masorti movement in the 1980s, right? And independent egalitarian minyans were not a thing either (other than some surviving boomer chavurot). |
Anonymous
Ever read the Philip Roth short story, "The Conversion of the Jews"? American Jews have long had a hard time saying no to their children, and this has often been tied in to assimilation issues. |
Anonymous
I say no to my kid all the time. She rolls with it, even if she's disappointed. That's one of the things that makes our vacations special - I say yes to as much as I absolutely can on vacation. |
Anonymous
+ 1000 |
Anonymous
I like the holiday countdown idea, and get a chocolate a day until Hanukkah as a compromise. I would suggest too synagogue shopping and investigating religious schools. I've been SHOCKED at how much my kids have loved religious school (reform Jewish - my older child is in first grade). I think it's having a bit of history, and context and introduction to some spiritual ideas that has really expanded their minds and souls - stuff we talk about a little bit but not a whole lot. Jewishness is a medium/large part of my own identity, but as an adult I've realized more and more that Judaism can give on a framework for understanding the world - good and bad. Some people arrive there on their own, but I think organized religion can give some of us a short cut to think about moral and ethics and making the world a better place. It may be worth looking into. Happy holidays either way 
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Anonymous
Yikes, it wasn't my intention to touch a nerve. I didn't see anywhere in the original post for replies to only come from Jewish posters. In fact, the OP wrote "Thoughts on this, oh DCUM readers?''. And I shared my thoughts. This is an open forum that has people of many different faiths so if you post here, it's kind of expected and usually well received so long as we are all being polite and respectful. I wasn't telling OP what to do just sharing my thoughts as was asked in the OP. I was sharing how we incorporate the 'fun stuff' of this holiday that is both cultural and religious, into our family that also practices a minority faith in this country where the majority faith holidays dominate the day to day environment for a couple of months each year. I do understand how hard it can be to keep the traditions and beliefs of a minority faith unwavering against the Christian backdrop of this country. If my kid wants a Lego calendar with little windows or wants to eat a cookie that her friend shared with her that is shaped like a Christmas tree or wants to take a pic with Santa at the mall or wants to see the Nutcracker because she loves ballet, these aren't battles I'm going to engage in and I'd rather not turn this into a forbidden fruits situation. But that is my experience and works for us, if it doesn't work for you then just feel free to ignore my post and keep reading until you find a post that you agree with. |
Anonymous
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To Hindu poster -- don't worry about it. It seems like there are always a couple of thread nazis who go nuts when a response seems off to their sensitive ears.
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Anonymous
Ah, yes, of course, Philip Roth, the obvious spokesperson of American Jews. |
Anonymous
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I'm a Christian. I'm even a <gasp> Southern Baptist. I only learned as an adult that Advent has any religious significance and I still couldn't tell you exactly what it is.
As a kid I had three Advent Calendars. One was my mother's childhood calendar (clearly going back more than 20 years). I think it was a Christmas circus - no religious significance. I also had one that was a snowy village picture and it did have religious ties (I think the last door opened showed the Holy family). My third one was a long piece of felt with a candy cane tied with yarn for each day leading up to Christmas. The thrill in each case was to do "something special" each night. I don't even like peppermint. While the candy canes were automatically passed to my mother to enjoy, I loved untying them from the banner. I can understand why you wouldn't want a countdown to Christmas. While the advent calendar can be religious (I picked out a manger scene for my kids), in most cases it's something secular leading up to the secular part of the holiday. I think a child could get the same enjoyment from doing any sort of countdown to anything. Somebody mentioned doing a chocolate a day (sounds a lot better than candy canes). I think that would be great, but it would be even better if there were some specific action/ceremony (untying it from a string of chocolates, or opening a special chocolate box, etc), because I think it's the "event" of doing something that makes it special. |
Anonymous
You are correct. OP - did you really want advice from Hindus and gentile atheists on this? I mean I understand you want Christians to tell you if this is really religious or not. But if you want advice on raising a child as a Jew, I would think you would be looking for advice from, you know, Jews. But if you want advice from people who neither have experience raising a Jewish child, nor particular insight into the Christian meaning of advent, it is of course your privilege to listen to whomever you wish. |
Anonymous
Not a spokesman, but a really insightful observer of the social and moral conditions of American Jews at the time. I take it no one else here has read the short story then. |
Anonymous
I've read it. You're basically saying if you let your kid open a chocolate advent calendar, they will spiral into a downward fall of conversion because you didn't say no to having it in the house. I see that story more as a lesson to not stop your child from questioning and to have better answers. The rabbi and the mother tried to control the child's thoughts and squelch questions by yielding power over him. By stating some info but not explaining why or why not it was important. So of course he goes through the conflicting feelings of what is being taught to him and what the majority religion preaches to the masses. If anything, it seems like this story shows more need to not make everything regarding other traditions forbidden because they'll just continue to question the validity of the decision that you've made for them. But I can also see how you would view this as more of an opening of the floodgates that can lead to confusion and dwindling of faith. This isn't a strictly Jewish confliction, many minority religions and cultures face similar issues when grappling with assimilation into American culture. What American customs and traditions to take on, what traditional family customs and traditions to hold on to. How much, if any, of the Christmas and Easter cultural celebrations to bring into the family, how much is too much if we do say yes to some of it. How to distinguish what is cultural from what is religious. How to help our kids not lose their religious or cultural identity. My guess is this is why the OP asked the statement in a more broader sense, but maybe I'm wrong and OP will come back and tell us all to shut up if we are not Jewish. |
Anonymous
Gentile atheists, huh? 
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Anonymous
Er, no I am not saying that. I am saying that Jews have a hard time saying no to kids, and allow themselves to be manipulated by their whims. The story starts with parents unwilling to deal with questions (and in particular relying on a superficial refutation, rather then a full education of Jewish tradition and texts) But it ends with everyone doing what the kid wants. My point is, you are the parent. Decide on the values you want to pass on. Kids are generally happy to have rules (and you can insist on what to do and not do without taking away the right to question) |
Anonymous
It isn't. But the Jewish situation is different, because A. Our own core texts form the basis for Christianity, leading to a complex and conflicted relationship between Judaism and Christianity over 2000 Years (I would not advise Hindu on how to deal with adoption of say, Buddist practices) B. The very nature of Jewish tradition, which is far more hostile to overt syncretism than some other traditions are. C. Numbers. There just aren't many of us in the entire world. If there were 800 million Jews living somewhere overseas, out stance might be different. Perhaps OP has not weighed all those factors. Perhaps they have, and still want the perspectives of other minorities on this. I don't know, its up to OP to say. |