Major family upheavel over religion....don't know what to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your parents are not acting very Christian, are they? How can they get upset over this interfaith marriage if they can't abide by the basic precepts of Christianity in the first place? Really? They aren't going to meet a woman because she's Jewish? Do they snub other Jewish people, too?

They need to learn to manage their anger and their fear better. They need to focus on that unconditional love of their son that they are supposed to have.

Absolutely do not push talk of converting. There should be no compulsion in religion. That is such an intimate, personal choice.

Totally agree with this. I'm sorry that your parents are being absolutely awful. I am a Protestant and this is an embarrassment to our faith. Now I have to admit that my daughter is dating a Jewish man. She will probably marry him. She will probably convert to Judaism. I have mixed feeling about all of this but overall I am happy if she is happy. He is a good man and good to her. Their relationship is healthy. That is all that should matter. If she is comfortable giving up her religion it is really her business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What concerns me more about this whole scenario, for the couple's sake, is that they have not discussed how they will raise the children. This is a fundamental issue. Will it be "both" (I have known friends to do that, although IMO it doesn't work), one, or the other? Will the kids be baptized, bar or bat mitzvahed, go through confirmation, which?

Anyway, not your place to question. Be happy for them, be the supportive person in the family, and leave all issues related to religion to the couple.

In terms of the in-laws, I just can't grasp how people would cut off a child and irreparably damage a relationship with the future in-law child over this. OP, continue to try to be a bridge-builder but otherwise just be sympathetic to your brother.

All we know is that they won't discuss how they will raise the children with the OP's family. It sounds like not discussing it with the inlaws is a perfectly rational and understandable decision. That doesn't mean they, as a couple, haven't thought it through and have a plan that they are both comfortable with.

[Anonymous]

My father was Jewish and my mother is Protestant. I was sent to religious school at a Reform Temple even though, at that time, Reform still adhered to the weird idea that the religion of the mother determined the religion of the children, which is not how it was done in Biblical times and clearly contrary to Jewish law. The Reform movement has since changed its position on this and accepts the children as Jewish if either parent is Jewish (which is also contrary to Jewish Law). Last I read in the Conservative Movement's magazine, and this was many years ago, this was a hotly debated issue among Conservatives. I had a friend in law school who was in love with a Protestant woman. They were perfect for each other. They loved roughing it, hiking and camping out. But my friend's mother bitterly disliked her because she was Protestant. My friend reluctantly broke up with her. My friend ended marrying the sister in law of the head litigation partner at his firm, which seemed like a great idea at the time. She was Protestant but agreed to convert. She hated hiking and camping and was heavily into cosmetics and makeup, which my friend did not like. The marriage, which seemed ideal professionally since my friend wanted to be a litigator, did not work out that way and he was asked to leave the firm. They are still married. Last time I spoke with him, which was quite some time ago, he was still pining over his lost love. Don't let this happen to your brother.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here my brother is not religious but is extremely loyal to our family/parents. I know despite what he says he will have a very hard time to move forward without our parents blessing. Wrong or right that is the way it is. And they know that.

My parents are not anti Semites, they ARE very staunch int heir beliefs and admittedly very "old school", they think a Protestant shoudl marry a Protestant, etc..they are not right but that is what they think.

I, nor my brother are religious.

I decided to not do anything, just offer my support.I have learned in the last hour that the told my oldest brother she (fiance) is considering converting. I will not say a word (my husband has begged me to stay out) and let it play out. Thank you for your advice, hoping for a happy peaceful ending.

Right, "considering" it after your family has behaved horribly. OP, I think you have already hinted around too much about this to "stay out of it" now. I think you need to sit down with your brother and his fiancee, acknowledge that it is no secret that members of your family are uncomfortable with him marrying outside their faith, and tell them that you 100% support their marriage, their happiness is your only concern, and that you will support them and their children no matter what they decide in terms of religion. And also that it is your firm belief that their religious views and practices are their business.

I think remaining silent at this point is a mistake. Of course, if you don't support their marriage, then silence is your only option, but that would be kind of horrible of you, especially since you yourself are not religious.

If your parents can't come around, their loss.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What concerns me more about this whole scenario, for the couple's sake, is that they have not discussed how they will raise the children. This is a fundamental issue. Will it be "both" (I have known friends to do that, although IMO it doesn't work), one, or the other? Will the kids be baptized, bar or bat mitzvahed, go through confirmation, which?

Anyway, not your place to question. Be happy for them, be the supportive person in the family, and leave all issues related to religion to the couple.

In terms of the in-laws, I just can't grasp how people would cut off a child and irreparably damage a relationship with the future in-law child over this. OP, continue to try to be a bridge-builder but otherwise just be sympathetic to your brother.

All we know is that they won't discuss how they will raise the children with the OP's family. It sounds like not discussing it with the inlaws is a perfectly rational and understandable decision. That doesn't mean they, as a couple, haven't thought it through and have a plan that they are both comfortable with.

Yes. My guess is that they have discussed that the kids will be interfaith or Jewish but there is no way they are going to admit to that now. And why should they? Not any one else's business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your family is wrong and acting like self righteous prigs. I hope brother cuts you all off.

I agree. You absolutely don't ask someone to convert. Your parents are horrible. So much for loving your kids no matter what. They have already tarnished their relationship with her. That can't be taken back. Your brother might as well cut them off right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your family is wrong and acting like self righteous prigs. I hope brother cuts you all off.

I agree. You absolutely don't ask someone to convert. Your parents are horrible. So much for loving your kids no matter what. They have already tarnished their relationship with her. That can't be taken back. Your brother might as well cut them off right now.

I see the wisdom of this sentiment. However, I just want to say that from my experience (with a non-religious related conflict), it really did all work out in the end. I was the first in-law, and therefore , as I see it in retrospect, a threat to the status quo. I stood my ground, as did my spouse-to-be, which prepared the family for future differences perceived as threat to the system -- a system which wasn't so healthy, but which had never been challenged before.

[Anonymous]

My Jewish brother is married to a Christian woman who comes from a very religious southern family. Her father asked my brother to convert out of a place of true care and concern- they are genuinely worried about his soul going to heaven. My brother politely said that he appreciated their concern but he was not going to convert out of respect for his parents, grandparents and generations before that who died for being Jewish. My SILs parents accepted this and they are happily married.

There are a host of issues with this situation, OP. It's surprising to me that with 4 children, and 3 of them marrying Protestants, your parents would fight your brother on this. My parents were quite accepting of my SIL, I think a good deal of that has to do with the fact that their daughter (me) married a Jewish man and we have Jewish children.

Do your parents have Jewish friends? Colleagues?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm Jewish and My husband comes from a very conservative Christian family. They were so welcoming and delighted to meet me with open arms, wether I converted or not. They actually thought it was very cool that I was Jewish. This is how it should be OP- not only were you out of line to ask her to consider converting, but your family just seems awful!!

I call bullshit. Jewish families do this ALL THE TIME. Is THAT OK? Come on, this is a matter of a family wanting to protect and honor their lineage/legacy. My best friend (Jewish) says the same thing of most Jewish parents wanting that very same thing. I know many cases where Jewish parents pressure the non Jew DIL to convert (and often they do). Is that OK? This is hypocritical it isn't even funny. I get it and think there is nothing wrong with it.

You're ridiculous with posting post after post backing yourself up (your writing style gives you away). Pathetic.

And no, I've never heard of a single Jewish family who won't even MEET a girl that their son is engaged to, just because she's not Jewish.

You're delusional... but please keep posting the same thing over & over again

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm Jewish and My husband comes from a very conservative Christian family. They were so welcoming and delighted to meet me with open arms, wether I converted or not. They actually thought it was very cool that I was Jewish. This is how it should be OP- not only were you out of line to ask her to consider converting, but your family just seems awful!!

I call bullshit. Jewish families do this ALL THE TIME. Is THAT OK? Come on, this is a matter of a family wanting to protect and honor their lineage/legacy. My best friend (Jewish) says the same thing of most Jewish parents wanting that very same thing. I know many cases where Jewish parents pressure the non Jew DIL to convert (and often they do). Is that OK? This is hypocritical it isn't even funny. I get it and think there is nothing wrong with it.

+1. This is INCREDIBLY COMMON in Jewish families. My ex-boyfriend's family forced our breakup (he's Jewish, I'm not) by threatening to withhold funds that he needed for a life-threatening medical emergency. It was "we'll either help with your medical needs and you break up with her because she isn't Jewish or we cut you off, end your medical treatment, and you risk death, but you get to be with the non-Jewish girl." For his family, converting wasn't even good enough. To this day, I am still disgusted by what his family did, how they treated him, how they treated me, and and the the overall situation they put him in. Nobody should have to make that decision and no parent should put their child in that type of situation. But Jewish families quite often do threaten to cut their children off, and worse, if they marry outside the tribe. It's not okay when they do it and it certainly isn't okay right now as OP's family is doing it.

Bwahahahaha, you've gone utter cray-cray now.
Uh.. this is the real reason got were broken up with sweetie, not because you're not Jewish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm Jewish and My husband comes from a very conservative Christian family. They were so welcoming and delighted to meet me with open arms, wether I converted or not. They actually thought it was very cool that I was Jewish. This is how it should be OP- not only were you out of line to ask her to consider converting, but your family just seems awful!!

I call bullshit. Jewish families do this ALL THE TIME. Is THAT OK? Come on, this is a matter of a family wanting to protect and honor their lineage/legacy. My best friend (Jewish) says the same thing of most Jewish parents wanting that very same thing. I know many cases where Jewish parents pressure the non Jew DIL to convert (and often they do). Is that OK? This is hypocritical it isn't even funny. I get it and think there is nothing wrong with it.

+1. This is INCREDIBLY COMMON in Jewish families. My ex-boyfriend's family forced our breakup (he's Jewish, I'm not) by threatening to withhold funds that he needed for a life-threatening medical emergency. It was "we'll either help with your medical needs and you break up with her because she isn't Jewish or we cut you off, end your medical treatment, and you risk death, but you get to be with the non-Jewish girl." For his family, converting wasn't even good enough. To this day, I am still disgusted by what his family did, how they treated him, how they treated me, and and the the overall situation they put him in. Nobody should have to make that decision and no parent should put their child in that type of situation. But Jewish families quite often do threaten to cut their children off, and worse, if they marry outside the tribe. It's not okay when they do it and it certainly isn't okay right now as OP's family is doing it.

Bwahahahaha, you've gone utter cray-cray now.
Uh.. this is the real reason got were broken up with sweetie, not because you're not Jewish.

Having grown up in the NY area, I find pp's story quite believable actually. It's not the same level, but one of my good friends was forbidden from attending our prom because he wanted to take a non-Jewish girl. His parents did not strike any of us as that serious about their religous beliefs, but he was absolutely not allowed to date outside his religion, or even attend a single event with a girl who was catholic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My father was Jewish and my mother is Protestant. I was sent to religious school at a Reform Temple even though, at that time, Reform still adhered to the weird idea that the religion of the mother determined the religion of the children, which is not how it was done in Biblical times and clearly contrary to Jewish law. The Reform movement has since changed its position on this and accepts the children as Jewish if either parent is Jewish (which is also contrary to Jewish Law). Last I read in the Conservative Movement's magazine, and this was many years ago, this was a hotly debated issue among Conservatives. I had a friend in law school who was in love with a Protestant woman. They were perfect for each other. They loved roughing it, hiking and camping out. But my friend's mother bitterly disliked her because she was Protestant. My friend reluctantly broke up with her. My friend ended marrying the sister in law of the head litigation partner at his firm, which seemed like a great idea at the time. She was Protestant but agreed to convert. She hated hiking and camping and was heavily into cosmetics and makeup, which my friend did not like. The marriage, which seemed ideal professionally since my friend wanted to be a litigator, did not work out that way and he was asked to leave the firm. They are still married. Last time I spoke with him, which was quite some time ago, he was still pining over his lost love. Don't let this happen to your brother.

Conservative Jew here. We still hold to the maternal link, but are happy to convert babies without all that much effort. And we are acception of Jews by Choice in this modern time. Thus, mom or dad works out the same in the end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm Jewish and My husband comes from a very conservative Christian family. They were so welcoming and delighted to meet me with open arms, wether I converted or not. They actually thought it was very cool that I was Jewish. This is how it should be OP- not only were you out of line to ask her to consider converting, but your family just seems awful!!

I call bullshit. Jewish families do this ALL THE TIME. Is THAT OK? Come on, this is a matter of a family wanting to protect and honor their lineage/legacy. My best friend (Jewish) says the same thing of most Jewish parents wanting that very same thing. I know many cases where Jewish parents pressure the non Jew DIL to convert (and often they do). Is that OK? This is hypocritical it isn't even funny. I get it and think there is nothing wrong with it.

+1. This is INCREDIBLY COMMON in Jewish families. My ex-boyfriend's family forced our breakup (he's Jewish, I'm not) by threatening to withhold funds that he needed for a life-threatening medical emergency. It was "we'll either help with your medical needs and you break up with her because she isn't Jewish or we cut you off, end your medical treatment, and you risk death, but you get to be with the non-Jewish girl." For his family, converting wasn't even good enough. To this day, I am still disgusted by what his family did, how they treated him, how they treated me, and and the the overall situation they put him in. Nobody should have to make that decision and no parent should put their child in that type of situation. But Jewish families quite often do threaten to cut their children off, and worse, if they marry outside the tribe. It's not okay when they do it and it certainly isn't okay right now as OP's family is doing it.

Bwahahahaha, you've gone utter cray-cray now.
Uh.. this is the real reason got were broken up with sweetie, not because you're not Jewish.

Having grown up in the NY area, I find pp's story quite believable actually. It's not the same level, but one of my good friends was forbidden from attending our prom because he wanted to take a non-Jewish girl. His parents did not strike any of us as that serious about their religous beliefs, but he was absolutely not allowed to date outside his religion, or even attend a single event with a girl who was catholic.

+1. This is really not a rare occurrence among Jewish families. I'm not Jewish but have dated Jewish guys and, yeah, the in-laws were not fun.

[Anonymous]

Wow. My parents said harly a word when I married outside the faith, and his were mum when we began raising our kid in my faith.

Yes, this happens.