Nuns on a beach in France but burkinis are banned

[Anonymous]

And there are sharia courts in some european countries

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:A government that forbids you from wearing a burkini is as bad as a government that demands that you wear one.

+1 I've been saying the same thing. NO govt should tell a civilian person what to wear.

Could a "western" woman wear a bikini in Saudi Arabia? is there a double standard?

Saudi Arabia is an islamic republic and makes no claim to respect human beings, their choices or rights. France does make the claim that they respect human beings, human choice and human liberty. Saudis don't claim any respect for human liberty so its not a double standard, if you follow? If the French say- The Uk is a nominally Christian country- so it is actually ok for the government in the UK to say- hey you all- we are an Anglican country, everyone has to adhere to anglican norms. I mean if the french want to be secular in the same way that the USSR was secular- with only one state sanctioned religion (Russian Orthodoxy) and no other faith permitted, that is their choice but it should be apparent, clear and legislated, not arbitrarily enforced.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Dont think they made her strip. If she is that religous to wear a loose head to toe bathing suit she would have left instead of taking off a layer of it. As a woman i seriously dont understand how a woman could be forced to wear attire in the name of a religon that favors men. The only distinction from american male and femal abusive relationships where men tell a woman to cover herself and not dress like a slut is that it is not religous like this womans choice for wearing this suit. Christian women arent frced to wear habits to the beach because its in their religion that none other but their man should look at their hair and skin. Also id be more worried about the child sex abuse by the economic migrants at the french camps than this irrelevant story

The Amish and some other ultra conservative Christian groups in the US make their women wear those ugly dresses.

Both men and women in those religions/culture dont wear manufactured clothing like jeans but muslim men can wear jeans? Also amish women are free to leave that culture and wont get beheaded for it.

Did they spin their own cotton? No, then it's manufactured. From what I have seen, those "Christian" men seem to wear whatever they want.

Do you seriously think there are no women who have left the Muslim faith in France? You do know there are non Muslims living in the Middle East?

There are extremists in every religion. Christianity and Muslims are no different in that regard. There are Muslim women who choose to stay in their religion of their own free will, believe it or not.

Amish men wear traditional clothing and they dont buy their clothes at stores as the women make the clothes.

The non muslims in exteme muslim govts are attacked. It depends on how extreme the govt is or how by the book they are referring to the koran.

Of course they are in america and europe where our govts protect them but in extreme muslim countries hell no.

And we are talking about France and the west. In the US, we see these extreme Christian groups telling women what to wear, that they can't cut their hari, wear makeup, etc.. -- this is not just the Amish. And the women seem to go along with it.

Its free will with the christian women. If they are fresh in america or france muslims and following tradition and religion and have kids and the women opposes the man and says she wont cover up etc well they could take it to sharia courts in the coubtry they are in where the man will be favored or the man could just off and leave with the kids to their coubtry and that may be the last time the woman sees their kids.

And I'm pretty sure in France if the Muslim women wanted to leave the man she could divorce him legally in France. Again, we are talking about France, not some country in the Middle East.

Of course she could divorce him legally in france kr the US but what is to stop the man from taking his kids where his rights are favored? Happens a lot.

In the US, a parent cannot take the kid to another country without the other parent's permission. Yea, they could kidnap them. It's happened here a lot, and not just by the fathers, but mothers, too. There was a famous case a year or so back of a Brazilian woman kidnapping her son to Brazil; the American father spent years trying to get the son back, even after the mother died in Brazil. They were not Muslim.

I'm thinking it's quite similar in France.

So, again, no gov't should tell people what they should wear to the beach, of all places. Yea, many conservative countries do this. They are wrong, just like the French gov't is wrong.

With the attacks in france i do not blame them for being cautious. Someone probably alerted them and they asked the woman to either abide by the dress code or leave the beach. 90% of these people are economic migrants and free to leave. Also the french are worried that this traditional dress is a sign of extremism as more young french muslims are joining isis. It is up to the french who also banned head scarves for some time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And there are sharia courts in some european countries

And as long as their laws don't counter the European countries' laws, that's fine. It's like Christians going to their Church leaders to settle an issue.

Is there any western European country that doesn't allow a woman to divorce her husband because of sharia law?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:A government that forbids you from wearing a burkini is as bad as a government that demands that you wear one.

Given your opinion, would you mind pointing me to your post protesting the gross injustice to females in those countries where they are forced to cover up? (I mean, since you're equally upset about that...)

NP here, but I think most posters on this forum would agree that no external force (religion or state) should dictate what a woman wears. That's a given.

Sure, that would be best. However, I happen to think it's worse when the state forces all of its female citizens to cover up in an obvious symbol of their subjugation than when the state forces a few of its female citizens NOT to wear the symbol of subjugation. Call me crazy!

This. Agree one trillion percent.

Still doesn't make it right just because one is less worse than the other.

Agree. But note that multiple PPs were saying that both were equally bad. They're not equally bad.

OK, not equal, but bad enough. I have been to Nice. I wouldn't want them to tell me that I *had* to go topless on the beach. Sometimes, I see non Muslim women in US beaches covered up. There are various reasons why: modesty, sensitive to the sun, etc... So, these women won't be able to cover up when they are in France anymore? If it's just Burqas, then it's a bigoted law.

Bigoted? It's France and what's next? A request /demand for a female only beach for women? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3200795/Men-banned-Muslim-women-demand-female-beach-Morocco-strip-burkas-without-offending-Allah.html http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37082637

BBC article about violence in Corsica because a photo was taken with possible burka bather.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A government that forbids you from wearing a burkini is as bad as a government that demands that you wear one.

Given your opinion, would you mind pointing me to your post protesting the gross injustice to females in those countries where they are forced to cover up? (I mean, since you're equally upset about that...)

NP here, but I think most posters on this forum would agree that no external force (religion or state) should dictate what a woman wears. That's a given.

Sure, that would be best. However, I happen to think it's worse when the state forces all of its female citizens to cover up in an obvious symbol of their subjugation than when the state forces a few of its female citizens NOT to wear the symbol of subjugation. Call me crazy!

This. Agree one trillion percent.

Still doesn't make it right just because one is less worse than the other.

Agree. But note that multiple PPs were saying that both were equally bad. They're not equally bad.

OK, not equal, but bad enough. I have been to Nice. I wouldn't want them to tell me that I *had* to go topless on the beach. Sometimes, I see non Muslim women in US beaches covered up. There are various reasons why: modesty, sensitive to the sun, etc... So, these women won't be able to cover up when they are in France anymore? If it's just Burqas, then it's a bigoted law.

Bigoted? It's France and what's next? A request /demand for a female only beach for women? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3200795/Men-banned-Muslim-women-demand-female-beach-Morocco-strip-burkas-without-offending-Allah.html http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37082637

BBC article about violence in Corsica because a photo was taken with possible burka bather.

That's kind of a leap from a gov't telling a woman what she can't wear to a bunch of people becoming violent or telling the gov't they want their own beach. No one here is advocating the latter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ha! It's funny because my beachwear is closer to the burkini than a traditional bikini. Not because I am Muslim--I'm just a little chubby and have super pale easily burned skin. So I wear a swim skirt, a tankini top, a rash guard, a hat, and sunglasses. And I'm an atheist. Lol. I can't imagine why a very modest bathing suit would need to be banned.

I was thinking the same thing. I go down to the beach with a full brim hat, a long sleeve rash guard and some bike shorts. I last about 30 minutes. I hate sunburn.

I come from a country with an appalling rate of skin cancer, and the cancer society has spent years promoting "slip-slop-slap". Slip on a shirt, slop on some sunscreen and slap on a hat. http://www.sunsmart.com.au/tools/videos/past-tv-campaigns/slip-slop-slap-original-sunsmart-campaign.html

I was just in France - it made me cringe to see people lying on the beach going as red as lobsters, and letting their kids run around getting as red as lobsters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Clearly that law is bigoted. I'm glad we have no such laws here.

--signed a Christian

I'm not a Muslim or Christian and agree. I'm not surprised France has so much unrest. This is outrageous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And there are sharia courts in some european countries

It's probably not what you think it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's a picture of the burkini. It reminds me of swimsuits worn in America in the 1920s. I don't see the big deal.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/viral-photos-add-fuel-french-burkini-debate-115217774.html

Conservative here. WTF? Those are cute!! Who care what someone wears to swim so long as they are comfortable?!?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's a picture of the burkini. It reminds me of swimsuits worn in America in the 1920s. I don't see the big deal.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/viral-photos-add-fuel-french-burkini-debate-115217774.html

As if explosives would work after being exposed to the water, anyway. Sheesh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dont think they made her strip. If she is that religous to wear a loose head to toe bathing suit she would have left instead of taking off a layer of it. As a woman i seriously dont understand how a woman could be forced to wear attire in the name of a religon that favors men. The only distinction from american male and femal abusive relationships where men tell a woman to cover herself and not dress like a slut is that it is not religous like this womans choice for wearing this suit. Christian women arent frced to wear habits to the beach because its in their religion that none other but their man should look at their hair and skin. Also id be more worried about the child sex abuse by the economic migrants at the french camps than this irrelevant story

The Amish and some other ultra conservative Christian groups in the US make their women wear those ugly dresses.

Both men and women in those religions/culture dont wear manufactured clothing like jeans but muslim men can wear jeans? Also amish women are free to leave that culture and wont get beheaded for it.

No, Amish who leave don't get beheaded, just shunned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's a picture of the burkini. It reminds me of swimsuits worn in America in the 1920s. I don't see the big deal.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/viral-photos-add-fuel-french-burkini-debate-115217774.html

Conservative here. WTF? Those are cute!! Who care what someone wears to swim so long as they are comfortable?!?

For the french it's not how comfortable the garments are or how covered up they are. They could give a shit. THey do give a shit however because there have been a string of terrorist attacks and they believe with evidence that young french muslims are inspiring to join isis so prohibiting religious clothing is a means to either control or make them leave if they don't like it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A government that forbids you from wearing a burkini is as bad as a government that demands that you wear one.

+1 I've been saying the same thing. NO govt should tell a civilian person what to wear.

Could a "western" woman wear a bikini in Saudi Arabia? is there a double standard?

Saudi Arabia is an islamic republic and makes no claim to respect human beings, their choices or rights. France does make the claim that they respect human beings, human choice and human liberty. Saudis don't claim any respect for human liberty so its not a double standard, if you follow? If the French say- The Uk is a nominally Christian country- so it is actually ok for the government in the UK to say- hey you all- we are an Anglican country, everyone has to adhere to anglican norms. I mean if the french want to be secular in the same way that the USSR was secular- with only one state sanctioned religion (Russian Orthodoxy) and no other faith permitted, that is their choice but it should be apparent, clear and legislated, not arbitrarily enforced.

USSR had tons of Muslims and mosques.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's a picture of the burkini. It reminds me of swimsuits worn in America in the 1920s. I don't see the big deal.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/viral-photos-add-fuel-french-burkini-debate-115217774.html

Conservative here. WTF? Those are cute!! Who care what someone wears to swim so long as they are comfortable?!?

For the french it's not how comfortable the garments are or how covered up they are. They could give a shit. THey do give a shit however because there have been a string of terrorist attacks and they believe with evidence that young french muslims are inspiring to join isis so prohibiting religious clothing is a means to either control or make them leave if they don't like it.

A lot of people feel intimidated by Muslim women and it's OK.