Nuns on a beach in France but burkinis are banned

[Anonymous]

Islam does not enforce the burqa on women, it's extremist Islamist governments that do.

The suggestions given by Chapter 24, Verse 30, 31 state in the Quran are below which are the reasonings that extremists use to justify such enforcements. Nowhere is there a requirement to cover completely from head to toe, just to be modest.

It's as simple as that.

Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: And God is well acquainted with all that they do.

And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards God, that ye may attain Bliss

https://www.quora.com/Why-must-Muslim-women-cover-their-hair-while-Muslim-men-arent-required-to-do-so

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dont think they made her strip. If she is that religous to wear a loose head to toe bathing suit she would have left instead of taking off a layer of it. As a woman i seriously dont understand how a woman could be forced to wear attire in the name of a religon that favors men. The only distinction from american male and femal abusive relationships where men tell a woman to cover herself and not dress like a slut is that it is not religous like this womans choice for wearing this suit. Christian women arent frced to wear habits to the beach because its in their religion that none other but their man should look at their hair and skin. Also id be more worried about the child sex abuse by the economic migrants at the french camps than this irrelevant story

The Amish and some other ultra conservative Christian groups in the US make their women wear those ugly dresses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A government that forbids you from wearing a burkini is as bad as a government that demands that you wear one.

Given your opinion, would you mind pointing me to your post protesting the gross injustice to females in those countries where they are forced to cover up? (I mean, since you're equally upset about that...)

NP here, but I think most posters on this forum would agree that no external force (religion or state) should dictate what a woman wears. That's a given.

Sure, that would be best. However, I happen to think it's worse when the state forces all of its female citizens to cover up in an obvious symbol of their subjugation than when the state forces a few of its female citizens NOT to wear the symbol of subjugation. Call me crazy!

I am neither a Muslim, nor have ever gone to beach without a mainstream beach worthy attire. However, I happen to think it is equally bad for the state forces all of its female citizens to cover up in an obvious symbol of their subjugation or the state forces all of its female citizens to strip in the name of security. Call me crazy!

Which country is forcing all of its female citizens to strip?

It is so easy to create a "symbol of something" in your own head without understanding another culture and what their symbolism is. You do not see it this way, but I know many Muslims women who would consider being asked to take off their traditional clothing on gun point as a symbol of "stripping". Ask the Muslims.

So you're not going to answer the question?

Did you read the story and see the photos of the Nice policemen forcing a woman to remove her tunic?

If you're suggesting that France forces all of its female citizens to strip, then you would be hyperbolic and inaccurate. (That's like saying America forces all of its citizens to wear clothes in public. Regardless of what the law does or does not say, most of us are choosing not to go outside naked of our own free will.)

If you really believe in the merits of your case, you can persuade others without being purposefully misleading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dont think they made her strip. If she is that religous to wear a loose head to toe bathing suit she would have left instead of taking off a layer of it. As a woman i seriously dont understand how a woman could be forced to wear attire in the name of a religon that favors men. The only distinction from american male and femal abusive relationships where men tell a woman to cover herself and not dress like a slut is that it is not religous like this womans choice for wearing this suit. Christian women arent frced to wear habits to the beach because its in their religion that none other but their man should look at their hair and skin. Also id be more worried about the child sex abuse by the economic migrants at the french camps than this irrelevant story

The Amish and some other ultra conservative Christian groups in the US make their women wear those ugly dresses.

Both men and women in those religions/culture dont wear manufactured clothing like jeans but muslim men can wear jeans? Also amish women are free to leave that culture and wont get beheaded for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A government that forbids you from wearing a burkini is as bad as a government that demands that you wear one.

Given your opinion, would you mind pointing me to your post protesting the gross injustice to females in those countries where they are forced to cover up? (I mean, since you're equally upset about that...)

NP here, but I think most posters on this forum would agree that no external force (religion or state) should dictate what a woman wears. That's a given.

Sure, that would be best. However, I happen to think it's worse when the state forces all of its female citizens to cover up in an obvious symbol of their subjugation than when the state forces a few of its female citizens NOT to wear the symbol of subjugation. Call me crazy!

I am neither a Muslim, nor have ever gone to beach without a mainstream beach worthy attire. However, I happen to think it is equally bad for the state forces all of its female citizens to cover up in an obvious symbol of their subjugation or the state forces all of its female citizens to strip in the name of security. Call me crazy!

Which country is forcing all of its female citizens to strip?

It is so easy to create a "symbol of something" in your own head without understanding another culture and what their symbolism is. You do not see it this way, but I know many Muslims women who would consider being asked to take off their traditional clothing on gun point as a symbol of "stripping". Ask the Muslims.

So you're not going to answer the question?

Did you read the story and see the photos of the Nice policemen forcing a woman to remove her tunic?

If you're suggesting that France forces all of its female citizens to strip, then you would be hyperbolic and inaccurate. (That's like saying America forces all of its citizens to wear clothes in public. Regardless of what the law does or does not say, most of us are choosing not to go outside naked of our own free will.)

If you really believe in the merits of your case, you can persuade others without being purposefully misleading.

My mistake. I should have said France forces "some" of its female citizens to strip and not "all" of its female citizens to strip. May be in this case it would France police forced "a" female citizen to strip. Does that make the situation palatable?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dont think they made her strip. If she is that religous to wear a loose head to toe bathing suit she would have left instead of taking off a layer of it. As a woman i seriously dont understand how a woman could be forced to wear attire in the name of a religon that favors men. The only distinction from american male and femal abusive relationships where men tell a woman to cover herself and not dress like a slut is that it is not religous like this womans choice for wearing this suit. Christian women arent frced to wear habits to the beach because its in their religion that none other but their man should look at their hair and skin. Also id be more worried about the child sex abuse by the economic migrants at the french camps than this irrelevant story

The Amish and some other ultra conservative Christian groups in the US make their women wear those ugly dresses.

Both men and women in those religions/culture dont wear manufactured clothing like jeans but muslim men can wear jeans? Also amish women are free to leave that culture and wont get beheaded for it.

Did they spin their own cotton? No, then it's manufactured. From what I have seen, those "Christian" men seem to wear whatever they want.

Do you seriously think there are no women who have left the Muslim faith in France? You do know there are non Muslims living in the Middle East?

There are extremists in every religion. Christianity and Muslims are no different in that regard. There are Muslim women who choose to stay in their religion of their own free will, believe it or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A government that forbids you from wearing a burkini is as bad as a government that demands that you wear one.

+1 I've been saying the same thing. NO govt should tell a civilian person what to wear.

Except for at banks.

My sister worked as a teller in another state.

In her state, a customer cannot be in a bank with their head covered in any fashion that obscures their face.

So no hoodies, baseball caps, burkas, ski caps, halloween masks, wide brimmed church lady hats... the list goes on.

I am not sure if it just her bank's policy but she was told in training it is the law.

The purpose is to help ensure bank security and to keep faces/hair/eyes visible to the security cameras.

She said they woukd stop people at the door if they came in wearing any sort of head covering.

I am perfectly fine with dress code enforcement for specific security reasons such as this. I am also okay with the full body/face burka type dress being banned because covering your face like that is a huge security risk and is also a very sexist, abusive and dangerous practice.

Forcing Elizabeth Smart to wear a burka is one of the ways her captive kept her hidden in plain view for so long.

Nothing good comes from covering ones eyes and face from society

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dont think they made her strip. If she is that religous to wear a loose head to toe bathing suit she would have left instead of taking off a layer of it. As a woman i seriously dont understand how a woman could be forced to wear attire in the name of a religon that favors men. The only distinction from american male and femal abusive relationships where men tell a woman to cover herself and not dress like a slut is that it is not religous like this womans choice for wearing this suit. Christian women arent frced to wear habits to the beach because its in their religion that none other but their man should look at their hair and skin. Also id be more worried about the child sex abuse by the economic migrants at the french camps than this irrelevant story

The Amish and some other ultra conservative Christian groups in the US make their women wear those ugly dresses.

Both men and women in those religions/culture dont wear manufactured clothing like jeans but muslim men can wear jeans? Also amish women are free to leave that culture and wont get beheaded for it.

Did they spin their own cotton? No, then it's manufactured. From what I have seen, those "Christian" men seem to wear whatever they want.

Do you seriously think there are no women who have left the Muslim faith in France? You do know there are non Muslims living in the Middle East?

There are extremists in every religion. Christianity and Muslims are no different in that regard. There are Muslim women who choose to stay in their religion of their own free will, believe it or not.

Amish men wear traditional clothing and they dont buy their clothes at stores as the women make the clothes.

The non muslims in exteme muslim govts are attacked. It depends on how extreme the govt is or how by the book they are referring to the koran.

Of course they are in america and europe where our govts protect them but in extreme muslim countries hell no.

[Anonymous]

^the bank scenario is not really the same thing. A bank's security camera needs to see the face. Why does anyone *need* to see someone's face/hair/body uncovered at the beach? FFS, some people need to cover up more at the beach, imo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dont think they made her strip. If she is that religous to wear a loose head to toe bathing suit she would have left instead of taking off a layer of it. As a woman i seriously dont understand how a woman could be forced to wear attire in the name of a religon that favors men. The only distinction from american male and femal abusive relationships where men tell a woman to cover herself and not dress like a slut is that it is not religous like this womans choice for wearing this suit. Christian women arent frced to wear habits to the beach because its in their religion that none other but their man should look at their hair and skin. Also id be more worried about the child sex abuse by the economic migrants at the french camps than this irrelevant story

The Amish and some other ultra conservative Christian groups in the US make their women wear those ugly dresses.

Both men and women in those religions/culture dont wear manufactured clothing like jeans but muslim men can wear jeans? Also amish women are free to leave that culture and wont get beheaded for it.

Did they spin their own cotton? No, then it's manufactured. From what I have seen, those "Christian" men seem to wear whatever they want.

Do you seriously think there are no women who have left the Muslim faith in France? You do know there are non Muslims living in the Middle East?

There are extremists in every religion. Christianity and Muslims are no different in that regard. There are Muslim women who choose to stay in their religion of their own free will, believe it or not.

Amish men wear traditional clothing and they dont buy their clothes at stores as the women make the clothes.

The non muslims in exteme muslim govts are attacked. It depends on how extreme the govt is or how by the book they are referring to the koran.

Of course they are in america and europe where our govts protect them but in extreme muslim countries hell no.

And we are talking about France and the west. In the US, we see these extreme Christian groups telling women what to wear, that they can't cut their hari, wear makeup, etc.. -- this is not just the Amish. And the women seem to go along with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dont think they made her strip. If she is that religous to wear a loose head to toe bathing suit she would have left instead of taking off a layer of it. As a woman i seriously dont understand how a woman could be forced to wear attire in the name of a religon that favors men. The only distinction from american male and femal abusive relationships where men tell a woman to cover herself and not dress like a slut is that it is not religous like this womans choice for wearing this suit. Christian women arent frced to wear habits to the beach because its in their religion that none other but their man should look at their hair and skin. Also id be more worried about the child sex abuse by the economic migrants at the french camps than this irrelevant story

The Amish and some other ultra conservative Christian groups in the US make their women wear those ugly dresses.

Both men and women in those religions/culture dont wear manufactured clothing like jeans but muslim men can wear jeans? Also amish women are free to leave that culture and wont get beheaded for it.

Did they spin their own cotton? No, then it's manufactured. From what I have seen, those "Christian" men seem to wear whatever they want.

Do you seriously think there are no women who have left the Muslim faith in France? You do know there are non Muslims living in the Middle East?

There are extremists in every religion. Christianity and Muslims are no different in that regard. There are Muslim women who choose to stay in their religion of their own free will, believe it or not.

Amish men wear traditional clothing and they dont buy their clothes at stores as the women make the clothes.

The non muslims in exteme muslim govts are attacked. It depends on how extreme the govt is or how by the book they are referring to the koran.

Of course they are in america and europe where our govts protect them but in extreme muslim countries hell no.

And we are talking about France and the west. In the US, we see these extreme Christian groups telling women what to wear, that they can't cut their hari, wear makeup, etc.. -- this is not just the Amish. And the women seem to go along with it.

Its free will with the christian women. If they are fresh in america or france muslims and following tradition and religion and have kids and the women opposes the man and says she wont cover up etc well they could take it to sharia courts in the coubtry they are in where the man will be favored or the man could just off and leave with the kids to their coubtry and that may be the last time the woman sees their kids.

[Anonymous]

There's a big difference between a burkini and a burqa.

A BURQA covers everything except the eyes (and maybe hands) of a woman. Some extremist countries force women to wear it in public. Some women choose to wear it in Muslim countries because it saves them from eve-teasing in the streets (like my female cousins). Some women believe it's commanded in Islam (most Muslims disagree). I've seen African-American Muslim converts where the burqa very proudly and by their own choice.

A BURKINI is a rash guard with a hoodie. It was designed by a Muslim woman who wanted to be able to enjoy the beach and water activities while still exercising her choice to dress modestly. The burkini allows hundreds/thousands of Muslim women to experience water sports and activities that would have otherwise been a little trickier (though not impossible).

The burkini ban isn't saving women from oppression, it's preventing women who choose to dress modestly from enjoying the beach.

Women who wear a burqa would never wear a burkini. Women whose husbands or fathers force them to wear burqa, or otherwise oppress them, would never allow them to leave the house in a burkini.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dont think they made her strip. If she is that religous to wear a loose head to toe bathing suit she would have left instead of taking off a layer of it. As a woman i seriously dont understand how a woman could be forced to wear attire in the name of a religon that favors men. The only distinction from american male and femal abusive relationships where men tell a woman to cover herself and not dress like a slut is that it is not religous like this womans choice for wearing this suit. Christian women arent frced to wear habits to the beach because its in their religion that none other but their man should look at their hair and skin. Also id be more worried about the child sex abuse by the economic migrants at the french camps than this irrelevant story

The Amish and some other ultra conservative Christian groups in the US make their women wear those ugly dresses.

Both men and women in those religions/culture dont wear manufactured clothing like jeans but muslim men can wear jeans? Also amish women are free to leave that culture and wont get beheaded for it.

Did they spin their own cotton? No, then it's manufactured. From what I have seen, those "Christian" men seem to wear whatever they want.

Do you seriously think there are no women who have left the Muslim faith in France? You do know there are non Muslims living in the Middle East?

There are extremists in every religion. Christianity and Muslims are no different in that regard. There are Muslim women who choose to stay in their religion of their own free will, believe it or not.

Amish men wear traditional clothing and they dont buy their clothes at stores as the women make the clothes.

The non muslims in exteme muslim govts are attacked. It depends on how extreme the govt is or how by the book they are referring to the koran.

Of course they are in america and europe where our govts protect them but in extreme muslim countries hell no.

And we are talking about France and the west. In the US, we see these extreme Christian groups telling women what to wear, that they can't cut their hari, wear makeup, etc.. -- this is not just the Amish. And the women seem to go along with it.

Its free will with the christian women. If they are fresh in america or france muslims and following tradition and religion and have kids and the women opposes the man and says she wont cover up etc well they could take it to sharia courts in the coubtry they are in where the man will be favored or the man could just off and leave with the kids to their coubtry and that may be the last time the woman sees their kids.

And I'm pretty sure in France if the Muslim women wanted to leave the man she could divorce him legally in France. Again, we are talking about France, not some country in the Middle East.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dont think they made her strip. If she is that religous to wear a loose head to toe bathing suit she would have left instead of taking off a layer of it. As a woman i seriously dont understand how a woman could be forced to wear attire in the name of a religon that favors men. The only distinction from american male and femal abusive relationships where men tell a woman to cover herself and not dress like a slut is that it is not religous like this womans choice for wearing this suit. Christian women arent frced to wear habits to the beach because its in their religion that none other but their man should look at their hair and skin. Also id be more worried about the child sex abuse by the economic migrants at the french camps than this irrelevant story

The Amish and some other ultra conservative Christian groups in the US make their women wear those ugly dresses.

Both men and women in those religions/culture dont wear manufactured clothing like jeans but muslim men can wear jeans? Also amish women are free to leave that culture and wont get beheaded for it.

Did they spin their own cotton? No, then it's manufactured. From what I have seen, those "Christian" men seem to wear whatever they want.

Do you seriously think there are no women who have left the Muslim faith in France? You do know there are non Muslims living in the Middle East?

There are extremists in every religion. Christianity and Muslims are no different in that regard. There are Muslim women who choose to stay in their religion of their own free will, believe it or not.

Amish men wear traditional clothing and they dont buy their clothes at stores as the women make the clothes.

The non muslims in exteme muslim govts are attacked. It depends on how extreme the govt is or how by the book they are referring to the koran.

Of course they are in america and europe where our govts protect them but in extreme muslim countries hell no.

And we are talking about France and the west. In the US, we see these extreme Christian groups telling women what to wear, that they can't cut their hari, wear makeup, etc.. -- this is not just the Amish. And the women seem to go along with it.

Its free will with the christian women. If they are fresh in america or france muslims and following tradition and religion and have kids and the women opposes the man and says she wont cover up etc well they could take it to sharia courts in the coubtry they are in where the man will be favored or the man could just off and leave with the kids to their coubtry and that may be the last time the woman sees their kids.

And I'm pretty sure in France if the Muslim women wanted to leave the man she could divorce him legally in France. Again, we are talking about France, not some country in the Middle East.

Of course she could divorce him legally in france kr the US but what is to stop the man from taking his kids where his rights are favored? Happens a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dont think they made her strip. If she is that religous to wear a loose head to toe bathing suit she would have left instead of taking off a layer of it. As a woman i seriously dont understand how a woman could be forced to wear attire in the name of a religon that favors men. The only distinction from american male and femal abusive relationships where men tell a woman to cover herself and not dress like a slut is that it is not religous like this womans choice for wearing this suit. Christian women arent frced to wear habits to the beach because its in their religion that none other but their man should look at their hair and skin. Also id be more worried about the child sex abuse by the economic migrants at the french camps than this irrelevant story

The Amish and some other ultra conservative Christian groups in the US make their women wear those ugly dresses.

Both men and women in those religions/culture dont wear manufactured clothing like jeans but muslim men can wear jeans? Also amish women are free to leave that culture and wont get beheaded for it.

Did they spin their own cotton? No, then it's manufactured. From what I have seen, those "Christian" men seem to wear whatever they want.

Do you seriously think there are no women who have left the Muslim faith in France? You do know there are non Muslims living in the Middle East?

There are extremists in every religion. Christianity and Muslims are no different in that regard. There are Muslim women who choose to stay in their religion of their own free will, believe it or not.

Amish men wear traditional clothing and they dont buy their clothes at stores as the women make the clothes.

The non muslims in exteme muslim govts are attacked. It depends on how extreme the govt is or how by the book they are referring to the koran.

Of course they are in america and europe where our govts protect them but in extreme muslim countries hell no.

And we are talking about France and the west. In the US, we see these extreme Christian groups telling women what to wear, that they can't cut their hari, wear makeup, etc.. -- this is not just the Amish. And the women seem to go along with it.

Its free will with the christian women. If they are fresh in america or france muslims and following tradition and religion and have kids and the women opposes the man and says she wont cover up etc well they could take it to sharia courts in the coubtry they are in where the man will be favored or the man could just off and leave with the kids to their coubtry and that may be the last time the woman sees their kids.

And I'm pretty sure in France if the Muslim women wanted to leave the man she could divorce him legally in France. Again, we are talking about France, not some country in the Middle East.

Of course she could divorce him legally in france kr the US but what is to stop the man from taking his kids where his rights are favored? Happens a lot.

In the US, a parent cannot take the kid to another country without the other parent's permission. Yea, they could kidnap them. It's happened here a lot, and not just by the fathers, but mothers, too. There was a famous case a year or so back of a Brazilian woman kidnapping her son to Brazil; the American father spent years trying to get the son back, even after the mother died in Brazil. They were not Muslim.

I'm thinking it's quite similar in France.

So, again, no gov't should tell people what they should wear to the beach, of all places. Yea, many conservative countries do this. They are wrong, just like the French gov't is wrong.