American Muslims, why do you support same sex marriage?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:new PP here. born and raised in the Muslim family. that 42% is total BS and made up stat. do not forget for Muslim it is OK to lie to infidel. when this survey is performed most Muslims probably lied because they know how you can get into trouble for so_called discrimination if you do say you are against gays when somebody asks me that about gays I just flat out lie because technically there is no freedom in this country you cannot express your true religion belief and Quran says homosexuality is a sin and should be punished. most likely those people who made up that 42% lied just like I do. I don't care if you don't agree with me you ask a stupid question and expect that people will agree with you nope that's my honest opinion that is based on Quran.

Actually, I do believe in the 42% statistic. I am a practicing Muslim. I have Muslim friends who defend same sex marriage. I know it sounds crazy, but they do. I don't support same sex marriage though. I have had many discussions/arguments with them over this. When I pull out the Quran to show them the specific ayahs and explain the translation, they are often silent. It's just that the media and pop culture is so liberal leaning and powerful here that the public is made to feel bad about discriminating gays. Muslims should never feel guilty for following their religion, though. We don't hate gays; we just can not support gay lifestyle.

People should feel badly about discriminating against gays. Just as they should feel badly about discriminating against Muslims. We have a constitutional republic that is supposed to protect human rights for all. Not just white straight Christian men. We haven't been great at it all theses years, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. If you don't lien gay marriage, don't marry someone of your sex. But don't discriminate against those who do.

You're assuming that Islam is a religion made by people. It wasn't. Muslims believe Islamic decrees are divinely inspired. So they can't be changed simply because society wants change. The decrees are from God and if God wanted gay lifestyle to be accepted, He would have said so. Muslims don't think gays need to be punished or discriminated in secular areas of life, but they can not support marriage equality because it goes against God's laws.

Marriage in America is a legal contract. It's secular. You don't need a religious officiant to be considered legally married. And if you don't get a government issued license to marry, the government doesn't recognize your marriage. These are secular laws are are taking about when we talk about marriage equality.

At the same time, government can not restrict religious decrees. Muslims who want a religious marriage may not have one. Sure, they may have a legal marriage under US law, but they may not complain about not being able to have a religious marriage. Fair?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:American Muslim here.

I believe that the government should not be restricting any civil liberties. The government should treat everyone equally. I do not believe that another person's beliefs/religion/morals should affect my life, unless I am harming another person.

I believe God's laws are complex and nuanced, far more than we understand. I will leave God to decide who has sinned and whether/how he or she should be punished. It is not my job to do anything more than be kind and just and encourage knowledge.

I'm Christian, a pretty liberal one, and I believe exactly what you said! Kudos!

You're mixing issues here, though. American Muslims don't care if the government permits gays to have legal marriages. They just don't think gay Muslims can have religious [u]marriages. They don't think Imams can be forced to marry Muslims of the same sex. But they are fine with gays working in secular areas. They are fine with supporting the hate crime law. They don't think it's fair to deny gays other civil rights.

God's laws are nuanced, you say, but the ayah doesn't seem to be very vague on prohibiting homosexuality. Nor does the rest of the Quran address any nuances of homosexuality. It simply and outright forbids it. American Muslims are not asking for gays to be punished. However, in declaring it a sin, they're simply following the Quran. If you don't recognize that homosexuality is a sin in Islam, I have to wonder if you embrace Islam because it is extremely clear in the Quran.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:American Muslim here.

I believe that the government should not be restricting any civil liberties. The government should treat everyone equally. I do not believe that another person's beliefs/religion/morals should affect my life, unless I am harming another person.

I believe God's laws are complex and nuanced, far more than we understand. I will leave God to decide who has sinned and whether/how he or she should be punished. It is not my job to do anything more than be kind and just and encourage knowledge.

I'm Christian, a pretty liberal one, and I believe exactly what you said! Kudos!

You're mixing issues here, though. American Muslims don't care if the government permits gays to have legal marriages. They just don't think gay Muslims can have religious [u]marriages. They don't think Imams can be forced to marry Muslims of the same sex. But they are fine with gays working in secular areas. They are fine with supporting the hate crime law. They don't think it's fair to deny gays other civil rights.

God's laws are nuanced, you say, but the ayah doesn't seem to be very vague on prohibiting homosexuality. Nor does the rest of the Quran address any nuances of homosexuality. It simply and outright forbids it. American Muslims are not asking for gays to be punished. However, in declaring it a sin, they're simply following the Quran. If you don't recognize that homosexuality is a sin in Islam, I have to wonder if you embrace Islam because it is extremely clear in the Quran.

I'm the American Muslim who posted the original quoted post.

Who said I think Imams should be forced to marry gay couples? Who said I question the Quran's prohibition on homosexuality?

Are you the OP? When I posted in the thread, I thought the OP was looking to understand different people's perspective, not set up other Muslims to be attacked and their faith questioned.

There are a lot of sins described in the Quran. Homosexuality is just one of them. The Quran is filled with verses that deal with far more than self-righteously condemning each other. The Quran is focused on personal growth and struggle, finding strength to stand up for your beliefs, being open, honest, straightforward with others, being kind, welcoming, and forgiving. There are a lot of lessons I learn from the Quran. We should support each other in that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you who answered that are American Muslims, I was interested in HOW you came to support same sex marriage, not necessarily whether you do, given the clear prohibition in the Quran. If you are not a practicing Muslim, then I can understand you would come to the conclusion of supporting same sex marriage. However, if you are a practicing Muslim, how on earth do you stand in contradiction to the clear prohibition in the Quran?

I posted early in the thread.

Because the government must guarantee equal rights/opportunities to its citizens.

Yes, but the government must also guarantee the freedom of religion clause to religious institutions and organizations too. Why aren't you supporting that part too?

Who said I'm not? How does letting gay couples marry threaten religious organizations?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:American Muslim here.

I believe that the government should not be restricting any civil liberties. The government should treat everyone equally. I do not believe that another person's beliefs/religion/morals should affect my life, unless I am harming another person.

I believe God's laws are complex and nuanced, far more than we understand. I will leave God to decide who has sinned and whether/how he or she should be punished. It is not my job to do anything more than be kind and just and encourage knowledge.

I'm Christian, a pretty liberal one, and I believe exactly what you said! Kudos!

You're mixing issues here, though. American Muslims don't care if the government permits gays to have legal marriages. They just don't think gay Muslims can have religious [u]marriages. They don't think Imams can be forced to marry Muslims of the same sex. But they are fine with gays working in secular areas. They are fine with supporting the hate crime law. They don't think it's fair to deny gays other civil rights.

God's laws are nuanced, you say, but the ayah doesn't seem to be very vague on prohibiting homosexuality. Nor does the rest of the Quran address any nuances of homosexuality. It simply and outright forbids it. American Muslims are not asking for gays to be punished. However, in declaring it a sin, they're simply following the Quran. If you don't recognize that homosexuality is a sin in Islam, I have to wonder if you embrace Islam because it is extremely clear in the Quran.

I'm the American Muslim who posted the original quoted post.

Who said I think Imams should be forced to marry gay couples? Who said I question the Quran's prohibition on homosexuality?

Are you the OP? When I posted in the thread, I thought the OP was looking to understand different people's perspective, not set up other Muslims to be attacked and their faith questioned.

There are a lot of sins described in the Quran. Homosexuality is just one of them. The Quran is filled with verses that deal with far more than self-righteously condemning each other. The Quran is focused on personal growth and struggle, finding strength to stand up for your beliefs, being open, honest, straightforward with others, being kind, welcoming, and forgiving. There are a lot of lessons I learn from the Quran. We should support each other in that.

Islam isn't a buffet. Yes, some issues may not be as clearly spelled out, but homosexuality isn't one of those vague areas. If you profess to practice Islam, which you said you do, you can not support same sex marriage. Your principles as a Muslim are via the Quran, not secular law of the US. You may support US law but not those laws that defy your religious principles. Thus, if US secular law demands that men can marry men, Muslims can accept or tolerate that out of respect for ourcountry's laws, but can not support it. Are you saying that despite that you are a Muslim, you support men marrying men?

You needn't be offended. I already know the different perspective. It simply contradicts Islam is what I'm saying and trying to see if American Muslims who support men marrying men recognize that too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you who answered that are American Muslims, I was interested in HOW you came to support same sex marriage, not necessarily whether you do, given the clear prohibition in the Quran. If you are not a practicing Muslim, then I can understand you would come to the conclusion of supporting same sex marriage. However, if you are a practicing Muslim, how on earth do you stand in contradiction to the clear prohibition in the Quran?

I posted early in the thread.

Because the government must guarantee equal rights/opportunities to its citizens.

Yes, but the government must also guarantee the freedom of religion clause to religious institutions and organizations too. Why aren't you supporting that part too?

Who said I'm not? How does letting gay couples marry threaten religious organizations?

Because there are Muslim homosexuals and Muslim lesbians today who want to marry their partners and will ask imams to officiate their marriages...because of this new marriage equality law. There are Muslim homosexuals who are married to men who will seek employment in religious institutions. Whose side will you support?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:American Muslim here.

I believe that the government should not be restricting any civil liberties. The government should treat everyone equally. I do not believe that another person's beliefs/religion/morals should affect my life, unless I am harming another person.

I believe God's laws are complex and nuanced, far more than we understand. I will leave God to decide who has sinned and whether/how he or she should be punished. It is not my job to do anything more than be kind and just and encourage knowledge.

I'm Christian, a pretty liberal one, and I believe exactly what you said! Kudos!

You're mixing issues here, though. American Muslims don't care if the government permits gays to have legal marriages. They just don't think gay Muslims can have religious [u]marriages. They don't think Imams can be forced to marry Muslims of the same sex. But they are fine with gays working in secular areas. They are fine with supporting the hate crime law. They don't think it's fair to deny gays other civil rights.

God's laws are nuanced, you say, but the ayah doesn't seem to be very vague on prohibiting homosexuality. Nor does the rest of the Quran address any nuances of homosexuality. It simply and outright forbids it. American Muslims are not asking for gays to be punished. However, in declaring it a sin, they're simply following the Quran. If you don't recognize that homosexuality is a sin in Islam, I have to wonder if you embrace Islam because it is extremely clear in the Quran.

I'm the American Muslim who posted the original quoted post.

Who said I think Imams should be forced to marry gay couples? Who said I question the Quran's prohibition on homosexuality?

Are you the OP? When I posted in the thread, I thought the OP was looking to understand different people's perspective, not set up other Muslims to be attacked and their faith questioned.

There are a lot of sins described in the Quran. Homosexuality is just one of them. The Quran is filled with verses that deal with far more than self-righteously condemning each other. The Quran is focused on personal growth and struggle, finding strength to stand up for your beliefs, being open, honest, straightforward with others, being kind, welcoming, and forgiving. There are a lot of lessons I learn from the Quran. We should support each other in that.

Islam isn't a buffet. Yes, some issues may not be as clearly spelled out, but homosexuality isn't one of those vague areas. If you profess to practice Islam, which you said you do, you can not support same sex marriage. Your principles as a Muslim are via the Quran, not secular law of the US. You may support US law but not those laws that defy your religious principles. Thus, if US secular law demands that men can marry men, Muslims can accept or tolerate that out of respect for ourcountry's laws, but can not support it. Are you saying that despite that you are a Muslim, you support men marrying men?

You needn't be offended. I already know the different perspective. It simply contradicts Islam is what I'm saying and trying to see if American Muslims who support men marrying men recognize that too.

I believe the GOVERNMENT cannot restrict an individual citizen's rights. The government must treat all individual's equally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you who answered that are American Muslims, I was interested in HOW you came to support same sex marriage, not necessarily whether you do, given the clear prohibition in the Quran. If you are not a practicing Muslim, then I can understand you would come to the conclusion of supporting same sex marriage. However, if you are a practicing Muslim, how on earth do you stand in contradiction to the clear prohibition in the Quran?

I posted early in the thread.

Because the government must guarantee equal rights/opportunities to its citizens.

Yes, but the government must also guarantee the freedom of religion clause to religious institutions and organizations too. Why aren't you supporting that part too?

Who said I'm not? How does letting gay couples marry threaten religious organizations?

Because there are Muslim homosexuals and Muslim lesbians today who want to marry their partners and will ask imams to officiate their marriages...because of this new marriage equality law. There are Muslim homosexuals who are married to men who will seek employment in religious institutions. Whose side will you support?

I do not think we can force an Imam to marry homosexual couples. However, as for employment, I'm fairly certain that there are already gay men and women working at Muslim/Islamic organizations. As long as they are able to do their work, they should be afforded the opportunity.

I understand that Islam is not a buffet. Just as I wouldn't cast out someone who has lied or been a hypocrite (also pretty big sins in Islam) or had sex before marriage or had a sip of alcohol or horded money or cheated someone, I would not give up on someone who is gay. I don't deny that it's a sin in Islam. I acknowledge that all of us are sinners in some way or another, and it is not fair to condemn for one thing that is considered a sin, while being accepting of the many others. We are all capable of growing, learning, evolving, and all I can ask is that we keep trying to be better people and focus on our own personal growth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My husband is Muslim, born and raised in the middle east. He's a flaming liberal socialist, for what it's worth. But he feels that if people are gay, then God made them that way, so why should they suffer on earth?

I think you might find a divide, too, between religious marriage by an imam, vs. civil marriage by a judge.

Exactly. I am a devout Hindu. I feel that God made no mistakes in his creation. He decided to make people of different races, religion and sexuality. To discriminate against groups is to say that God made mistakes and that we know better than Him/Her/It.

That is the reason I feel that people who try and convert others do not have full faith in God's creation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:American Muslim here.

I believe that the government should not be restricting any civil liberties. The government should treat everyone equally. I do not believe that another person's beliefs/religion/morals should affect my life, unless I am harming another person.

I believe God's laws are complex and nuanced, far more than we understand. I will leave God to decide who has sinned and whether/how he or she should be punished. It is not my job to do anything more than be kind and just and encourage knowledge.

I'm Christian, a pretty liberal one, and I believe exactly what you said! Kudos!

You're mixing issues here, though. American Muslims don't care if the government permits gays to have legal marriages. They just don't think gay Muslims can have religious [u]marriages. They don't think Imams can be forced to marry Muslims of the same sex. But they are fine with gays working in secular areas. They are fine with supporting the hate crime law. They don't think it's fair to deny gays other civil rights.

God's laws are nuanced, you say, but the ayah doesn't seem to be very vague on prohibiting homosexuality. Nor does the rest of the Quran address any nuances of homosexuality. It simply and outright forbids it. American Muslims are not asking for gays to be punished. However, in declaring it a sin, they're simply following the Quran. If you don't recognize that homosexuality is a sin in Islam, I have to wonder if you embrace Islam because it is extremely clear in the Quran.

I'm the American Muslim who posted the original quoted post.

Who said I think Imams should be forced to marry gay couples? Who said I question the Quran's prohibition on homosexuality?

Are you the OP? When I posted in the thread, I thought the OP was looking to understand different people's perspective, not set up other Muslims to be attacked and their faith questioned.

There are a lot of sins described in the Quran. Homosexuality is just one of them. The Quran is filled with verses that deal with far more than self-righteously condemning each other. The Quran is focused on personal growth and struggle, finding strength to stand up for your beliefs, being open, honest, straightforward with others, being kind, welcoming, and forgiving. There are a lot of lessons I learn from the Quran. We should support each other in that.

Islam isn't a buffet. Yes, some issues may not be as clearly spelled out, but homosexuality isn't one of those vague areas. If you profess to practice Islam, which you said you do, you can not support same sex marriage. Your principles as a Muslim are via the Quran, not secular law of the US. You may support US law but not those laws that defy your religious principles. Thus, if US secular law demands that men can marry men, Muslims can accept or tolerate that out of respect for ourcountry's laws, but can not support it. Are you saying that despite that you are a Muslim, you support men marrying men?

You needn't be offended. I already know the different perspective. It simply contradicts Islam is what I'm saying and trying to see if American Muslims who support men marrying men recognize that too.

I believe the GOVERNMENT cannot restrict an individual citizen's rights. The government must treat all individual's equally.

I understand you believe that should be the case since this is a secular government. But what is your personal opinion, islamically?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you who answered that are American Muslims, I was interested in HOW you came to support same sex marriage, not necessarily whether you do, given the clear prohibition in the Quran. If you are not a practicing Muslim, then I can understand you would come to the conclusion of supporting same sex marriage. However, if you are a practicing Muslim, how on earth do you stand in contradiction to the clear prohibition in the Quran?

I posted early in the thread.

Because the government must guarantee equal rights/opportunities to its citizens.

Yes, but the government must also guarantee the freedom of religion clause to religious institutions and organizations too. Why aren't you supporting that part too?

Who said I'm not? How does letting gay couples marry threaten religious organizations?

Because there are Muslim homosexuals and Muslim lesbians today who want to marry their partners and will ask imams to officiate their marriages...because of this new marriage equality law. There are Muslim homosexuals who are married to men who will seek employment in religious institutions. Whose side will you support?

I do not think we can force an Imam to marry homosexual couples. However, as for employment, I'm fairly certain that there are already gay men and women working at Muslim/Islamic organizations. As long as they are able to do their work, they should be afforded the opportunity.

I understand that Islam is not a buffet. Just as I wouldn't cast out someone who has lied or been a hypocrite (also pretty big sins in Islam) or had sex before marriage or had a sip of alcohol or horded money or cheated someone, I would not give up on someone who is gay. I don't deny that it's a sin in Islam. I acknowledge that all of us are sinners in some way or another, and it is not fair to condemn for one thing that is considered a sin, while being accepting of the many others. We are all capable of growing, learning, evolving, and all I can ask is that we keep trying to be better people and focus on our own personal growth.

I'm not talking about whether anyone can be forced. We already know the law does not require imams to marry gays. They enjoy a religious exemption under marriage equality law. I'm asking about your personal opinion, islamically. As a follower of Islam, what does your heart tell you about whether Muslim gay men should be married?

A sip of alcohol, an act of fornication, or having some bacon does not bar a Muslim from getting married islamically. Being gay does. Moreover, the homosexual act is referred to in the Quran as an "abomination." This is a stronger word than words used to describe the sin of eating bacon or drinking alcohol. Given that God destroyed Lot's people, who were engaged in homosexuality, it lends further credence to the fact that this is no minor sin. However, American Muslims don't want gays to be discriminated in the secular workplace or to suffer violence in any way for being gay. But this is a far cry from supporting a homosexual marriage, which practicing American Muslims just can't do without being hypocritical to our own faith.

I'm not worried about anyone actually forcing imams to marry gays because I know the law protects imams from having to do that. The law also protects religious organizations from having to hire gays for any job with even a small degree of ministerial responsibilities. What I do worry about, however, is how American Muslims who say they are practicing Muslims can rationalize supporting same sex marriages when it goes directly against their holy book. And the right to stand against same sex marriage is protected by US law also. So why the need to support same sex marriage?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband is Muslim, born and raised in the middle east. He's a flaming liberal socialist, for what it's worth. But he feels that if people are gay, then God made them that way, so why should they suffer on earth?

I think you might find a divide, too, between religious marriage by an imam, vs. civil marriage by a judge.

Exactly. I am a devout Hindu. I feel that God made no mistakes in his creation. He decided to make people of different races, religion and sexuality. To discriminate against groups is to say that God made mistakes and that we know better than Him/Her/It.

That is the reason I feel that people who try and convert others do not have full faith in God's creation.

From the Islamic perspective, God made no mistakes in his creation. Mankind is the one who chooses to err. People are born with various challenges and difficulties. Some people have addictions to alcohol and they may even be genetically predisposed to alcohol. Does that mean we sanction alcoholism? No. Similarly Islam believes whether you are born with the tendency to behave one way or another, you still need to control the urge to act in any way that harms society. Homosexuality is viewed as a harm to society in Islam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:American Muslim here.

I believe that the government should not be restricting any civil liberties. The government should treat everyone equally. I do not believe that another person's beliefs/religion/morals should affect my life, unless I am harming another person.

I believe God's laws are complex and nuanced, far more than we understand. I will leave God to decide who has sinned and whether/how he or she should be punished. It is not my job to do anything more than be kind and just and encourage knowledge.

I'm Christian, a pretty liberal one, and I believe exactly what you said! Kudos!

You're mixing issues here, though. American Muslims don't care if the government permits gays to have legal marriages. They just don't think gay Muslims can have religious [u]marriages. They don't think Imams can be forced to marry Muslims of the same sex. But they are fine with gays working in secular areas. They are fine with supporting the hate crime law. They don't think it's fair to deny gays other civil rights.

God's laws are nuanced, you say, but the ayah doesn't seem to be very vague on prohibiting homosexuality. Nor does the rest of the Quran address any nuances of homosexuality. It simply and outright forbids it. American Muslims are not asking for gays to be punished. However, in declaring it a sin, they're simply following the Quran. If you don't recognize that homosexuality is a sin in Islam, I have to wonder if you embrace Islam because it is extremely clear in the Quran.

I'm the American Muslim who posted the original quoted post.

Who said I think Imams should be forced to marry gay couples? Who said I question the Quran's prohibition on homosexuality?

Are you the OP? When I posted in the thread, I thought the OP was looking to understand different people's perspective, not set up other Muslims to be attacked and their faith questioned.

There are a lot of sins described in the Quran. Homosexuality is just one of them. The Quran is filled with verses that deal with far more than self-righteously condemning each other. The Quran is focused on personal growth and struggle, finding strength to stand up for your beliefs, being open, honest, straightforward with others, being kind, welcoming, and forgiving. There are a lot of lessons I learn from the Quran. We should support each other in that.

Islam isn't a buffet. Yes, some issues may not be as clearly spelled out, but homosexuality isn't one of those vague areas. If you profess to practice Islam, which you said you do, you can not support same sex marriage. Your principles as a Muslim are via the Quran, not secular law of the US. You may support US law but not those laws that defy your religious principles. Thus, if US secular law demands that men can marry men, Muslims can accept or tolerate that out of respect for ourcountry's laws, but can not support it. Are you saying that despite that you are a Muslim, you support men marrying men?

You needn't be offended. I already know the different perspective. It simply contradicts Islam is what I'm saying and trying to see if American Muslims who support men marrying men recognize that too.

I believe the GOVERNMENT cannot restrict an individual citizen's rights. The government must treat all individual's equally.

I understand you believe that should be the case since this is a secular government. But what is your personal opinion, islamically?

I see. I didn't realize what you were asking (and I think the poll mentioned in the OP is probably not clear either, so those percentages may be misleading).

I don't think that marriage between two men or between two women is allowed Islamically. The Quran does seem pretty clear on that. But if two Muslim men or two Muslim women were married somehow, I wouldn't feel the need to stop it or change it or punish them or shun them. As I've grown older I've learned not to judge others for doing what seems "sinful" as the more I learn and study and experience, I understand the less I know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you who answered that are American Muslims, I was interested in HOW you came to support same sex marriage, not necessarily whether you do, given the clear prohibition in the Quran. If you are not a practicing Muslim, then I can understand you would come to the conclusion of supporting same sex marriage. However, if you are a practicing Muslim, how on earth do you stand in contradiction to the clear prohibition in the Quran?

I posted early in the thread.

Because the government must guarantee equal rights/opportunities to its citizens.

Yes, but the government must also guarantee the freedom of religion clause to religious institutions and organizations too. Why aren't you supporting that part too?

Who said I'm not? How does letting gay couples marry threaten religious organizations?

Because there are Muslim homosexuals and Muslim lesbians today who want to marry their partners and will ask imams to officiate their marriages...because of this new marriage equality law. There are Muslim homosexuals who are married to men who will seek employment in religious institutions. Whose side will you support?

I do not think we can force an Imam to marry homosexual couples. However, as for employment, I'm fairly certain that there are already gay men and women working at Muslim/Islamic organizations. As long as they are able to do their work, they should be afforded the opportunity.

I understand that Islam is not a buffet. Just as I wouldn't cast out someone who has lied or been a hypocrite (also pretty big sins in Islam) or had sex before marriage or had a sip of alcohol or horded money or cheated someone, I would not give up on someone who is gay. I don't deny that it's a sin in Islam. I acknowledge that all of us are sinners in some way or another, and it is not fair to condemn for one thing that is considered a sin, while being accepting of the many others. We are all capable of growing, learning, evolving, and all I can ask is that we keep trying to be better people and focus on our own personal growth.

I'm not talking about whether anyone can be forced. We already know the law does not require imams to marry gays. They enjoy a religious exemption under marriage equality law. I'm asking about your personal opinion, islamically. As a follower of Islam, what does your heart tell you about whether Muslim gay men should be married?

A sip of alcohol, an act of fornication, or having some bacon does not bar a Muslim from getting married islamically. Being gay does. Moreover, the homosexual act is referred to in the Quran as an "abomination." This is a stronger word than words used to describe the sin of eating bacon or drinking alcohol. Given that God destroyed Lot's people, who were engaged in homosexuality, it lends further credence to the fact that this is no minor sin. However, American Muslims don't want gays to be discriminated in the secular workplace or to suffer violence in any way for being gay. But this is a far cry from supporting a homosexual marriage, which practicing American Muslims just can't do without being hypocritical to our own faith.

I'm not worried about anyone actually forcing imams to marry gays because I know the law protects imams from having to do that. The law also protects religious organizations from having to hire gays for any job with even a small degree of ministerial responsibilities. What I do worry about, however, is how American Muslims who say they are practicing Muslims can rationalize supporting same sex marriages when it goes directly against their holy book. And the right to stand against same sex marriage is protected by US law also. So why the need to support same sex marriage?

I don't see it as hypocritical to support equal rights for others, even if they go against my personal beliefs/teachings, etc.


This isn't a perfect example, but here's one to better explain my meaning: I'd say that being a vegetarian is a better choice for moral, ethical, spiritual, and health reasons. But I don't believe it is wrong to eat meat, and I don't think it would be fair for others to restrict my diet because of their own beliefs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:American Muslim here.

I believe that the government should not be restricting any civil liberties. The government should treat everyone equally. I do not believe that another person's beliefs/religion/morals should affect my life, unless I am harming another person.

I believe God's laws are complex and nuanced, far more than we understand. I will leave God to decide who has sinned and whether/how he or she should be punished. It is not my job to do anything more than be kind and just and encourage knowledge.

I'm Christian, a pretty liberal one, and I believe exactly what you said! Kudos!

You're mixing issues here, though. American Muslims don't care if the government permits gays to have legal marriages. They just don't think gay Muslims can have religious [u]marriages. They don't think Imams can be forced to marry Muslims of the same sex. But they are fine with gays working in secular areas. They are fine with supporting the hate crime law. They don't think it's fair to deny gays other civil rights.

God's laws are nuanced, you say, but the ayah doesn't seem to be very vague on prohibiting homosexuality. Nor does the rest of the Quran address any nuances of homosexuality. It simply and outright forbids it. American Muslims are not asking for gays to be punished. However, in declaring it a sin, they're simply following the Quran. If you don't recognize that homosexuality is a sin in Islam, I have to wonder if you embrace Islam because it is extremely clear in the Quran.

I'm the American Muslim who posted the original quoted post.

Who said I think Imams should be forced to marry gay couples? Who said I question the Quran's prohibition on homosexuality?

Are you the OP? When I posted in the thread, I thought the OP was looking to understand different people's perspective, not set up other Muslims to be attacked and their faith questioned.

There are a lot of sins described in the Quran. Homosexuality is just one of them. The Quran is filled with verses that deal with far more than self-righteously condemning each other. The Quran is focused on personal growth and struggle, finding strength to stand up for your beliefs, being open, honest, straightforward with others, being kind, welcoming, and forgiving. There are a lot of lessons I learn from the Quran. We should support each other in that.

Islam isn't a buffet. Yes, some issues may not be as clearly spelled out, but homosexuality isn't one of those vague areas. If you profess to practice Islam, which you said you do, you can not support same sex marriage. Your principles as a Muslim are via the Quran, not secular law of the US. You may support US law but not those laws that defy your religious principles. Thus, if US secular law demands that men can marry men, Muslims can accept or tolerate that out of respect for ourcountry's laws, but can not support it. Are you saying that despite that you are a Muslim, you support men marrying men?

You needn't be offended. I already know the different perspective. It simply contradicts Islam is what I'm saying and trying to see if American Muslims who support men marrying men recognize that too.

I believe the GOVERNMENT cannot restrict an individual citizen's rights. The government must treat all individual's equally.

I understand you believe that should be the case since this is a secular government. But what is your personal opinion, islamically?

I see. I didn't realize what you were asking (and I think the poll mentioned in the OP is probably not clear either, so those percentages may be misleading).

I don't think that marriage between two men or between two women is allowed Islamically. The Quran does seem pretty clear on that. But if two Muslim men or two Muslim women were married somehow, I wouldn't feel the need to stop it or change it or punish them or shun them. As I've grown older I've learned not to judge others for doing what seems "sinful" as the more I learn and study and experience, I understand the less I know.

Nor have American Muslims made a big issue of same sex marriages or stopped it or punished gay Muslim marriages. But in their heart they feel it is quite wrong and are not apologetic for voicing Islamic principles. I think society makes American Muslims feel guilty for simply saying what they believe in theie heart. You said you do feel same sex marriages are impermissible within Islam. But what does your Muslim heart say? Do YOU feel same sex marriages are wrong?