7 yr relationship, no ring yet - am I wasting my time?

[Anonymous]

Completely disagree with 33-year-old man posting. It must be nice to have all the time in the world (almost) to have children, but that's not the reality for women.

OP, if you love this guy, you need to propose. Simple as that. Stop waiting and take matters into your own hands. If he says no, time to leave.

Speaking as a 34-year-old woman, what I have learned and what a wise older friend told me about life is that you don't wait until the "perfect time" for what you want. You might wait until it's practical or possible, but don't wait until everything is "just right." This is why so many men in LTR who get broken up with suddenly get engaged and married -- after they get dumped, they realize that waiting for the perfect time FAILED and they lost out. They don't make that mistake again.

Don't wait for the perfect moment to get married, have a baby, expand your family, buy a house. You can't get that time back. If you have the basics (financial stability, a good relationship, etc), you ARE ready. If he's not, time to move on.

(I should add, DH and I got married in our mid-20s and started having kids at 30, despite us both not feeling "perfectly ready" for either step, we were ready enough. Looking back, I am glad I followed my friend's advice and didn't drag my feet on the things that were important to me.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just ask him to marry you if you want to. Enough of this acting like some helpless waif who just has to sit around and wait. Equality doesn't stop at the door of relationships. Don't fall back on tradition and traditional gender roles just because it helps you justify your passive role in a relationship. Women can make decisions too and take an active role.

I'm as feminist as they come, but I think this is a bad idea. Men like to be the pursuers.

Since when do women care about what men like? Only when it benefits them and gets them an expensive ring and gets them off the hook for having to be the one to make the big decision to propose. Falling back on traditional gender roles when it benefits you and crusading against them when it doesn't is shallow and hypocritical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, there's nothing that's not already here that I can't agree with.

I've been with whom I consider DH For 11 years. I'm now pushing 40. I've watched the best years of my life, fertility, and youth go by. And every month I see my period come, and it aches in my womb, and on my left ring finger., there's nothing I see that will change.

Do I love him? Yes, and I can't complain because it's what I chose consciously. And now, I wish I knew sooner thAt sooner or later, it's too late to fix.

Decide what you want. And go with it. There is still lots of time. Don't think he's the only one, ever. Because regardless, he's not asking. And if you go seek someone who might.. Well.. You' still may ahead of the game. I firmly believe now that a man who is head over heels will ask, and soon, or sooner. Women who wait are chumps. Even if I am one.

In my life, I feel like I settled. But I guess he did too. I'm not good enough to marry. He's not bad enough to leave. And so we settle.

I'm so sorry for you. You should follow your own advice and cut your losses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, there's nothing that's not already here that I can't agree with.

I've been with whom I consider DH For 11 years. I'm now pushing 40. I've watched the best years of my life, fertility, and youth go by. And every month I see my period come, and it aches in my womb, and on my left ring finger., there's nothing I see that will change.

Do I love him? Yes, and I can't complain because it's what I chose consciously. And now, I wish I knew sooner thAt sooner or later, it's too late to fix.

Decide what you want. And go with it. There is still lots of time. Don't think he's the only one, ever. Because regardless, he's not asking. And if you go seek someone who might.. Well.. You' still may ahead of the game. I firmly believe now that a man who is head over heels will ask, and soon, or sooner. Women who wait are chumps. Even if I am one.

In my life, I feel like I settled. But I guess he did too. I'm not good enough to marry. He's not bad enough to leave. And so we settle.

If you want a ring on your finger someday, I hope you find a person you care about who wants to give you one. Peace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, there's nothing that's not already here that I can't agree with.

I've been with whom I consider DH For 11 years. I'm now pushing 40. I've watched the best years of my life, fertility, and youth go by. And every month I see my period come, and it aches in my womb, and on my left ring finger., there's nothing I see that will change.

Do I love him? Yes, and I can't complain because it's what I chose consciously. And now, I wish I knew sooner thAt sooner or later, it's too late to fix.

Decide what you want. And go with it. There is still lots of time. Don't think he's the only one, ever. Because regardless, he's not asking. And if you go seek someone who might.. Well.. You' still may ahead of the game. I firmly believe now that a man who is head over heels will ask, and soon, or sooner. Women who wait are chumps. Even if I am one.

In my life, I feel like I settled. But I guess he did too. I'm not good enough to marry. He's not bad enough to leave. And so we settle.

If you want a ring on your finger someday, I hope you find a person you care about who wants to give you one. Peace.

I'm not going to hijack... Just OP needs to know that waiting one more day, one more week, one more month... It ain't gonna happen, or it might happen. But she needs to get through that it's unlikely. If he was going to ask, he would have.

She needs to decide what is important to her, and come to terms with it in her own way. Some women are very happy cohabitating, and it's cool. But you need to get past the fairy tale that some day he will see the miracle of stars in your eyes, sweep you off your feet and decide you are the one forever, and slip something sparkly on your hand. It won't happen. He's decided it's forever in his own way. You don't get the fairy tale. You get dishes and scrubbing underwear. I guess you get scrubbing both ways, but one way you get the legal protection and recognition from others that you are their forever. The other way, you are the perpetual girlfriend.

Don't have children with him..and get a cohabitation agreement.

Bah, humbug.

[Anonymous]

OP I made a rule that after 2 years, men should know if they want to marry you and if they haven't proposed after year 3 they're gone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I made a rule that after 2 years, men should know if they want to marry you and if they haven't proposed after year 3 they're gone.

Brilliant. Not easy to do, but easier than investing longer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I made a rule that after 2 years, men should know if they want to marry you and if they haven't proposed after year 3 they're gone.

Because everyone is identical. What a stupid rule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I made a rule that after 2 years, men should know if they want to marry you and if they haven't proposed after year 3 they're gone.

If you are over 20 this is a great rule. Why wait around for something that may not happen?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Why is a ring that much of a difference to what you guys already have? Men and women think differently and this thread really brings this out. Women tend to take things personally when a man is madly in love with them, but puts breaks on 'legally joining assets and liabilities' (you women call it marriage but for men, we call a spade a spade). Let me explain.

I can totally relate to where your BF is coming from and going (not that I am attempting to interpret his actions or speak for him). I had something similar to yours and decided to get married after I completed my MSc, was stable in my career, and was more financially secure, so I could have some freedom just in case a baby came along early. After she gave her ultimatum (as some here are encouraging you to do) I decided to get married at the tender age of 28 yo. No fault of mine, the marriage ended soon after, and this was my high school sweet heart who I was together with for 10+ years. While there is not necessarily any parallel between the reasons for its failure and your circumstance (because I would have still been married today had she not betrayed me), you have to ACCEPT that both of you might NOT be compatible, despite the 'on the surface' reasons you gave to suggest otherwise.

The truth is men mature much later than women and the obligations and expectations of maintaining this relationship might be getting in the way of your BF pursuing his professional ambitions and coming into his own. Yes, you are at the stage where you are ready to make things official legally and settle forever, but your BF still has unresolved professional ambitions, and that is what makes you incompatible (despite the similar values, frequent sex, etc that you mention; which are just byproducts of human interaction anyway). At the core, both of you are steering down different routes. Yes he is in love and would do anything for you, but he has not come into his own person and you have to accept this, and help him to see this for himself, because he has conflicting emotions. I can also guess that privately he is stressing about all of this.

By age 30 I was divorced and have since completed a PhD and am now very much clearer what I want and what makes me happy. I remember while married there were so many expectations around having a child, buying a home, etc, which really conflicted with my inner guts. The truth is, men reach this level of maturity and stability in their mid 30s to 40s, unlike women who do in their mid 20s, not to mention the race towards childbirth and the proverbial biological clock. The fact that you guys have been together for so long as well didn't give him much room to find himself either. So my advice, if you really want to spend the rest of your life with this guy, just lay off and give him space. Call time on the relationship if you must, or reassure him that you do not want him to get married and then feel unfulfilled and then the both of you become roommates of FWBs in your young marriage. He seems to be at a very critical stage of his development and so I think you should understand and give him space to grow, WITHOUT ANY EXPECTATIONS on either side. Meaning, you both may or may not continue.

And for God's sake stop seeing it as wasting time! You have a good man it seems. The time you are spending or spent together gave you much emotional, physical/sexual, and possibly professional benefits as well. LTRs are never time wasters, they are learning curves and help us navigate different seasons in our lives. I sound like a father and I'm just 33 yo ...been through a lot and took a lot of ME time to understand life, so it follows.

All the best OP!

PP, while I appreciate your response, it's pretty presumptuous to speak for all men and women on the bolded point above. To many of us, male and female, marriage means a LOT more than "joint liabilities and assets."

Thanks for reading and commenting.

I really don't want to sound too academic and get into the history of world civilizations here but there are many different approaches to marriage in the world. There has never been one approach or definition throughout human history. Fortunately or unfortunately, we in the Western Anglo-American experience have relied on an approach which is derived from 17th and 18th Century Western European traditions (or earlier, don't quote me). Today, all it amounts to in legal terms is the joining of assets and liabilities. A marriage 'meaning a LOT more than' this, is no different than being in a serious and committed LTR, because today we don't necessarily need the law to help us remain committed to our partners. Our present approach to marriage was aimed at 'civilizing' what we now call 'common-law' unions so that two persons can have one legal personality for the purposes of property and family life. Hence women assuming the last name of the husband. (I should also add too that this is why there is the philosophical debate today about 'marriage equality' because it is viewed as unfair by some, to have the law privileging heterosexual unions while discriminating against homosexual ones).

So our approach to marriage, at the heart of it, is really a legal arrangement that evolved from centuries ago. So it is quite epistemologically safe to call a 'spade a spade'

Well, for all of your academic speak, you fail to acknowledge that for many people marriage is a religious sacrament in addition to a legal arrangement, and has been for a long time. THAT is the difference of which I speak. And it's not immaterial to those of us for whom it matters.

[Anonymous]

At 33, I decided I need to find a man to marry, not just date for the fun of it. I made a rule that no man will get more than four seasons with me without a ring. Met DH at 34, engaged at 35, married at 36, child at 37.

Don't be afraid to ask for what you want. Don't be afraid to insist on what you want.

[Anonymous]

Religious sacrament is important. So is social conformity and convention. A cohabitating couple is not viewed in the same way as a married couple.

And contrary to belief, "common law" does NOT afford you the same rights as marriage. You have access to benefits, taxation, etc., but if something happens to your partner, you do not have automatic access to property, assets, power of attorney, and the like.

If you choose to live together get a lawyer and get it spelled out if you want to be treated as a married couple. It doesn't matter "how" you live. As a partner, you can put all the payments into a home, etc. and if your partner dies, have NO right to that home if it was solely in their name. This is unlike a married couple.

There are benefits of marriage, financially, socially, legally, spiritually. Don't be fooled thinking a spade is a spade. It's not. It's like a club and a spade - similar, but different.

Oh, I'm PP who has been waiting 11 years. I know of what I speak.

[Anonymous]

The Big Bang Theory metaphor is so apt.

For posters surprised at his income, BF is a postdoc, I am guessing. Unless he figures out how to get himself together, it is a hard road forward, especially depending on his field. He doesn't sound like that's an interest.

OP you are an adult. Dump this guy and live like an adult. Find a good local guy to date that shares your *real* interests and actually has a plan for the future.

I did this, dumped a forever postdoc and 4 months later met an amazing guy, better in every way than the guy I was dating. Now have a great job, he has a great job, we are super happy, have what we want in life and are expecting #2.
Would never have happened had I stuck with the guy I fell in love with in college. Too narrow of a pool; people change.

Get what you really want in life. Move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I made a rule that after 2 years, men should know if they want to marry you and if they haven't proposed after year 3 they're gone.

I'm a dude and I think this is eminently reasonable. You know after two years whether or not someone is a long term fit or not. Let me put it this way: if you don't know the answer is yes, with a great deal of certainty, after two years, it's highly unlikely you will ever feel that certainty. It takes three months for people to reveal themselves (it's hard to keep a mask on longer than that) - after a year, you probably know them well. After a second year to make sure you think you can work together, you've got your answer. If ambiguity remains, then that means the answer is NO. Tossing in a third year as a margin for error seems plenty generous.

OP: Ordinarily my advice would be to step up and propose yourself, but after seven years, he's in stasis - doesn't want to face change (either moving forward to marriage or being alone) - and is likely to just say yes to avoid change. That's a terrible reason to marry and one sees lots of divorces that started this way: someone who really didn't want to get married but went ahead with it because they were afraid to face being alone or the pain of breaking up.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with starting a relationship being very clear that you are looking for someone to get serious with - just eliminate all the dabblers and toe-dippers up front.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Completely disagree with 33-year-old man posting. It must be nice to have all the time in the world (almost) to have children, but that's not the reality for women.

OP, if you love this guy, you need to propose. Simple as that. Stop waiting and take matters into your own hands. If he says no, time to leave.

Speaking as a 34-year-old woman, what I have learned and what a wise older friend told me about life is that you don't wait until the "perfect time" for what you want. You might wait until it's practical or possible, but don't wait until everything is "just right." This is why so many men in LTR who get broken up with suddenly get engaged and married -- after they get dumped, they realize that waiting for the perfect time FAILED and they lost out. They don't make that mistake again.

Don't wait for the perfect moment to get married, have a baby, expand your family, buy a house. You can't get that time back. If you have the basics (financial stability, a good relationship, etc), you ARE ready. If he's not, time to move on.

(I should add, DH and I got married in our mid-20s and started having kids at 30, despite us both not feeling "perfectly ready" for either step, we were ready enough. Looking back, I am glad I followed my friend's advice and didn't drag my feet on the things that were important to me.)

Funny you disagreed with the 33yo PP, but end up with the same advice....