7 yr relationship, no ring yet - am I wasting my time?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The way you describe things, it sounds like the relationship is winding down. Your interests have diverged as you've gotten older. It's nobody's fault; it just happens. I will say, though, that stalling until he has a "stable income" is the oldest line in the book. Good luck.

I agree. And a played out one in the DMV.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Why is a ring that much of a difference to what you guys already have? Men and women think differently and this thread really brings this out. Women tend to take things personally when a man is madly in love with them, but puts breaks on 'legally joining assets and liabilities' (you women call it marriage but for men, we call a spade a spade). Let me explain.

I can totally relate to where your BF is coming from and going (not that I am attempting to interpret his actions or speak for him). I had something similar to yours and decided to get married after I completed my MSc, was stable in my career, and was more financially secure, so I could have some freedom just in case a baby came along early. After she gave her ultimatum (as some here are encouraging you to do) I decided to get married at the tender age of 28 yo. No fault of mine, the marriage ended soon after, and this was my high school sweet heart who I was together with for 10+ years. While there is not necessarily any parallel between the reasons for its failure and your circumstance (because I would have still been married today had she not betrayed me), you have to ACCEPT that both of you might NOT be compatible, despite the 'on the surface' reasons you gave to suggest otherwise.

The truth is men mature much later than women and the obligations and expectations of maintaining this relationship might be getting in the way of your BF pursuing his professional ambitions and coming into his own. Yes, you are at the stage where you are ready to make things official legally and settle forever, but your BF still has unresolved professional ambitions, and that is what makes you incompatible (despite the similar values, frequent sex, etc that you mention; which are just byproducts of human interaction anyway). At the core, both of you are steering down different routes. Yes he is in love and would do anything for you, but he has not come into his own person and you have to accept this, and help him to see this for himself, because he has conflicting emotions. I can also guess that privately he is stressing about all of this.

By age 30 I was divorced and have since completed a PhD and am now very much clearer what I want and what makes me happy. I remember while married there were so many expectations around having a child, buying a home, etc, which really conflicted with my inner guts. The truth is, men reach this level of maturity and stability in their mid 30s to 40s, unlike women who do in their mid 20s, not to mention the race towards childbirth and the proverbial biological clock. The fact that you guys have been together for so long as well didn't give him much room to find himself either. So my advice, if you really want to spend the rest of your life with this guy, just lay off and give him space. Call time on the relationship if you must, or reassure him that you do not want him to get married and then feel unfulfilled and then the both of you become roommates of FWBs in your young marriage. He seems to be at a very critical stage of his development and so I think you should understand and give him space to grow, WITHOUT ANY EXPECTATIONS on either side. Meaning, you both may or may not continue.

And for God's sake stop seeing it as wasting time! You have a good man it seems. The time you are spending or spent together gave you much emotional, physical/sexual, and possibly professional benefits as well. LTRs are never time wasters, they are learning curves and help us navigate different seasons in our lives. I sound like a father and I'm just 33 yo ...been through a lot and took a lot of ME time to understand life, so it follows.

All the best OP!

PP, while I appreciate your response, it's pretty presumptuous to speak for all men and women on the bolded point above. To many of us, male and female, marriage means a LOT more than "joint liabilities and assets."

[Anonymous]

Yes you wasted your time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Why is a ring that much of a difference to what you guys already have? Men and women think differently and this thread really brings this out. Women tend to take things personally when a man is madly in love with them, but puts breaks on 'legally joining assets and liabilities' (you women call it marriage but for men, we call a spade a spade). Let me explain.

I can totally relate to where your BF is coming from and going (not that I am attempting to interpret his actions or speak for him). I had something similar to yours and decided to get married after I completed my MSc, was stable in my career, and was more financially secure, so I could have some freedom just in case a baby came along early. After she gave her ultimatum (as some here are encouraging you to do) I decided to get married at the tender age of 28 yo. No fault of mine, the marriage ended soon after, and this was my high school sweet heart who I was together with for 10+ years. While there is not necessarily any parallel between the reasons for its failure and your circumstance (because I would have still been married today had she not betrayed me), you have to ACCEPT that both of you might NOT be compatible, despite the 'on the surface' reasons you gave to suggest otherwise.

The truth is men mature much later than women and the obligations and expectations of maintaining this relationship might be getting in the way of your BF pursuing his professional ambitions and coming into his own. Yes, you are at the stage where you are ready to make things official legally and settle forever, but your BF still has unresolved professional ambitions, and that is what makes you incompatible (despite the similar values, frequent sex, etc that you mention; which are just byproducts of human interaction anyway). At the core, both of you are steering down different routes. Yes he is in love and would do anything for you, but he has not come into his own person and you have to accept this, and help him to see this for himself, because he has conflicting emotions. I can also guess that privately he is stressing about all of this.

By age 30 I was divorced and have since completed a PhD and am now very much clearer what I want and what makes me happy. I remember while married there were so many expectations around having a child, buying a home, etc, which really conflicted with my inner guts. The truth is, men reach this level of maturity and stability in their mid 30s to 40s, unlike women who do in their mid 20s, not to mention the race towards childbirth and the proverbial biological clock. The fact that you guys have been together for so long as well didn't give him much room to find himself either. So my advice, if you really want to spend the rest of your life with this guy, just lay off and give him space. Call time on the relationship if you must, or reassure him that you do not want him to get married and then feel unfulfilled and then the both of you become roommates of FWBs in your young marriage. He seems to be at a very critical stage of his development and so I think you should understand and give him space to grow, WITHOUT ANY EXPECTATIONS on either side. Meaning, you both may or may not continue.

And for God's sake stop seeing it as wasting time! You have a good man it seems. The time you are spending or spent together gave you much emotional, physical/sexual, and possibly professional benefits as well. LTRs are never time wasters, they are learning curves and help us navigate different seasons in our lives. I sound like a father and I'm just 33 yo ...been through a lot and took a lot of ME time to understand life, so it follows.

All the best OP!

PP, while I appreciate your response, it's pretty presumptuous to speak for all men and women on the bolded point above. To many of us, male and female, marriage means a LOT more than "joint liabilities and assets."

Thanks for reading and commenting.

I really don't want to sound too academic and get into the history of world civilizations here but there are many different approaches to marriage in the world. There has never been one approach or definition throughout human history. Fortunately or unfortunately, we in the Western Anglo-American experience have relied on an approach which is derived from 17th and 18th Century Western European traditions (or earlier, don't quote me). Today, all it amounts to in legal terms is the joining of assets and liabilities. A marriage 'meaning a LOT more than' this, is no different than being in a serious and committed LTR, because today we don't necessarily need the law to help us remain committed to our partners. Our present approach to marriage was aimed at 'civilizing' what we now call 'common-law' unions so that two persons can have one legal personality for the purposes of property and family life. Hence women assuming the last name of the husband. (I should also add too that this is why there is the philosophical debate today about 'marriage equality' because it is viewed as unfair by some, to have the law privileging heterosexual unions while discriminating against homosexual ones).

So our approach to marriage, at the heart of it, is really a legal arrangement that evolved from centuries ago. So it is quite epistemologically safe to call a 'spade a spade'

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Why is a ring that much of a difference to what you guys already have? Men and women think differently and this thread really brings this out. Women tend to take things personally when a man is madly in love with them, but puts breaks on 'legally joining assets and liabilities' (you women call it marriage but for men, we call a spade a spade). Let me explain.

I can totally relate to where your BF is coming from and going (not that I am attempting to interpret his actions or speak for him). I had something similar to yours and decided to get married after I completed my MSc, was stable in my career, and was more financially secure, so I could have some freedom just in case a baby came along early. After she gave her ultimatum (as some here are encouraging you to do) I decided to get married at the tender age of 28 yo. No fault of mine, the marriage ended soon after, and this was my high school sweet heart who I was together with for 10+ years. While there is not necessarily any parallel between the reasons for its failure and your circumstance (because I would have still been married today had she not betrayed me), you have to ACCEPT that both of you might NOT be compatible, despite the 'on the surface' reasons you gave to suggest otherwise.

The truth is men mature much later than women and the obligations and expectations of maintaining this relationship might be getting in the way of your BF pursuing his professional ambitions and coming into his own. Yes, you are at the stage where you are ready to make things official legally and settle forever, but your BF still has unresolved professional ambitions, and that is what makes you incompatible (despite the similar values, frequent sex, etc that you mention; which are just byproducts of human interaction anyway). At the core, both of you are steering down different routes. Yes he is in love and would do anything for you, but he has not come into his own person and you have to accept this, and help him to see this for himself, because he has conflicting emotions. I can also guess that privately he is stressing about all of this.

By age 30 I was divorced and have since completed a PhD and am now very much clearer what I want and what makes me happy. I remember while married there were so many expectations around having a child, buying a home, etc, which really conflicted with my inner guts. The truth is, men reach this level of maturity and stability in their mid 30s to 40s, unlike women who do in their mid 20s, not to mention the race towards childbirth and the proverbial biological clock. The fact that you guys have been together for so long as well didn't give him much room to find himself either. So my advice, if you really want to spend the rest of your life with this guy, just lay off and give him space. Call time on the relationship if you must, or reassure him that you do not want him to get married and then feel unfulfilled and then the both of you become roommates of FWBs in your young marriage. He seems to be at a very critical stage of his development and so I think you should understand and give him space to grow, WITHOUT ANY EXPECTATIONS on either side. Meaning, you both may or may not continue.

And for God's sake stop seeing it as wasting time! You have a good man it seems. The time you are spending or spent together gave you much emotional, physical/sexual, and possibly professional benefits as well. LTRs are never time wasters, they are learning curves and help us navigate different seasons in our lives. I sound like a father and I'm just 33 yo ...been through a lot and took a lot of ME time to understand life, so it follows.

All the best OP!

PP, while I appreciate your response, it's pretty presumptuous to speak for all men and women on the bolded point above. To many of us, male and female, marriage means a LOT more than "joint liabilities and assets."

Thanks for reading and commenting.

I really don't want to sound too academic and get into the history of world civilizations here but there are many different approaches to marriage in the world. There has never been one approach or definition throughout human history. Fortunately or unfortunately, we in the Western Anglo-American experience have relied on an approach which is derived from 17th and 18th Century Western European traditions (or earlier, don't quote me). Today, all it amounts to in legal terms is the joining of assets and liabilities. A marriage 'meaning a LOT more than' this, is no different than being in a serious and committed LTR, because today we don't necessarily need the law to help us remain committed to our partners. Our present approach to marriage was aimed at 'civilizing' what we now call 'common-law' unions so that two persons can have one legal personality for the purposes of property and family life. Hence women assuming the last name of the husband. (I should also add too that this is why there is the philosophical debate today about 'marriage equality' because it is viewed as unfair by some, to have the law privileging heterosexual unions while discriminating against homosexual ones).

So our approach to marriage, at the heart of it, is really a legal arrangement that evolved from centuries ago. So it is quite epistemologically safe to call a 'spade a spade'

I am not the PP you are responding to. I won't quibble with your definition of marriage, but I also noticed that you said "women call it marriage, but for men..." Plenty of men call it marriage, too, and feel that it is more than just a legal arrangement. Having romantic notions about marriage is not the sole provenance of women.

[Anonymous]

Why buy they cow if you can suck on the milk teets for free

[Anonymous]

Thanks everyone, this has been a difficult thread for me to read but helpful.

I have a lot of pondering to do.

[Anonymous]

I also think you should move on. Not necessarily because he doesn't want to get married yet, although that's an issue. But because it sounds like you have just an "ok" relationship, and he's just an "ok" boyfriend. I think you should find a great one instead.

[Anonymous]

OP, think about is this way:

You are ready to settle down. It sounds like he has a few years to go before he is ready. An attractive woman your age should have no problem finding a good man, who has his career going, and is ready to settle down soon.

This sounds like the classic first long term relationship, where you think you're in love and you are soulmates, etc., and it just drags on without going anywhere. You don't want this relationship to drag on until you're 30, and find that it doesn't work out. Then, you will have spent essentially your entire young adulthood with this one guy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks everyone, this has been a difficult thread for me to read but helpful.

I have a lot of pondering to do.

And with this we can now allow OP some time and space to do just that!

Not the end of the world OP, just do what you think will make you happy over the long-term.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, think about is this way:

You are ready to settle down. It sounds like he has a few years to go before he is ready. An attractive woman your age should have no problem finding a good man, who has his career going, and is ready to settle down soon.

This sounds like the classic first long term relationship, where you think you're in love and you are soulmates, etc., and it just drags on without going anywhere. You don't want this relationship to drag on until you're 30, and find that it doesn't work out. Then, you will have spent essentially your entire young adulthood with this one guy.

+1. She could easily find a date a night.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why buy they cow if you can suck on the milk teets for free

Because you and the cow (which is a disgusting metaphor) have decided to enter into a (not-quite) binding commitment in front of your friends and family, due to a variety of cultural and religious conventions?

OP, sorry you're going through this. Probably only you know if the reluctance to get engaged signifies a real problem in your relationship, or if it's not. Don't let people convince you that you are wasting your time (I loathe that phrase) just because they were unhappy about how things turned out for them.

[Anonymous]

I dated my H for 7 years. I stated my expectations, which was get married at 29 and we did.

You told us what he wants but what do YOU want? Get married in 1 yr, 3 yrs?

My brother wanted to wait until he graduated law school, he did, they got married... Dated. 9 years.

Is there a reason you think he won't really marry you after his MBA, is this a new deadline? Does he lie in general?

[Anonymous]

"Anonymous wrote:
OP, don't be the women who dates a guy for a long time, he strings her along, they break up......"++

My friend and I were talking about this recently, how many of us have been in a relationship in our 20s where we're just kinda stuck going nowhere but we stick with it and waste years of our lives.

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Why is a ring that much of a difference to what you guys already have? Men and women think differently and this thread really brings this out. Women tend to take things personally when a man is madly in love with them, but puts breaks on 'legally joining assets and liabilities' (you women call it marriage but for men, we call a spade a spade). Let me explain.

I can totally relate to where your BF is coming from and going (not that I am attempting to interpret his actions or speak for him). I had something similar to yours and decided to get married after I completed my MSc, was stable in my career, and was more financially secure, so I could have some freedom just in case a baby came along early. After she gave her ultimatum (as some here are encouraging you to do) I decided to get married at the tender age of 28 yo. No fault of mine, the marriage ended soon after, and this was my high school sweet heart who I was together with for 10+ years. While there is not necessarily any parallel between the reasons for its failure and your circumstance (because I would have still been married today had she not betrayed me), you have to ACCEPT that both of you might NOT be compatible, despite the 'on the surface' reasons you gave to suggest otherwise.

The truth is men mature much later than women and the obligations and expectations of maintaining this relationship might be getting in the way of your BF pursuing his professional ambitions and coming into his own. Yes, you are at the stage where you are ready to make things official legally and settle forever, but your BF still has unresolved professional ambitions, and that is what makes you incompatible (despite the similar values, frequent sex, etc that you mention; which are just byproducts of human interaction anyway). At the core, both of you are steering down different routes. Yes he is in love and would do anything for you, but he has not come into his own person and you have to accept this, and help him to see this for himself, because he has conflicting emotions. I can also guess that privately he is stressing about all of this.

By age 30 I was divorced and have since completed a PhD and am now very much clearer what I want and what makes me happy. I remember while married there were so many expectations around having a child, buying a home, etc, which really conflicted with my inner guts. The truth is, men reach this level of maturity and stability in their mid 30s to 40s, unlike women who do in their mid 20s, not to mention the race towards childbirth and the proverbial biological clock. The fact that you guys have been together for so long as well didn't give him much room to find himself either. So my advice, if you really want to spend the rest of your life with this guy, just lay off and give him space. Call time on the relationship if you must, or reassure him that you do not want him to get married and then feel unfulfilled and then the both of you become roommates of FWBs in your young marriage. He seems to be at a very critical stage of his development and so I think you should understand and give him space to grow, WITHOUT ANY EXPECTATIONS on either side. Meaning, you both may or may not continue.

And for God's sake stop seeing it as wasting time! You have a good man it seems. The time you are spending or spent together gave you much emotional, physical/sexual, and possibly professional benefits as well. LTRs are never time wasters, they are learning curves and help us navigate different seasons in our lives. I sound like a father and I'm just 33 yo ...been through a lot and took a lot of ME time to understand life, so it follows.

All the best OP!

Are you married now? I don't think OP wants to wait to start a family at 33. 28 is a very reasonable time to get married, you were just behind the curve. Perhaps you are just someone who won't get married of have kids? OP is not in that boat.