Second Shift - sucks for dads too

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.fastcompany.com/91496750/new-second-shift-burning-out-both-parents

We are a dual working parent household and I so wish we had understood how awful it would be.

We both work in office, commute 30-60 min each way, and work 8-9 hour days. We thought this would be a reasonable setup, with one going in a little early and the other late to handle the morning and evening kid wrangling.

But it has just drained our entire life away. There is always a mess in the house (and now the yard, yay spring), weekends are errands, 7 piles of laundry, cleaning, yardwork.

We don’t make the kind of money we can outsource, like in the article above where they order out for dinner (I think us Millennials order the most takeout of any generation?).

We have no nearby family, no extra cash, and every moment is spoken for. And of course now apparently the good schools we slaved to afford to buy zoned for don’t matter because there won’t be any jobs for our kids.

Just a PSA to GenZ…

Sorry, what's the message of the PSA?

That men have now been socialized to believe they are feminists for wanting their wife to work (and this way they don't have the pressure of being sole providers) but still feel shocked that they can't veg out after work even though they chose to have children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I see these posts, I always wonder if the OP had a SAHP or is generally unobservant. I and most of my millennial friends came from dual income families and our lives are pretty similar to what we grew up with (particularly those with transplant parents). In many ways, I have it easier than my parents: remote work exists, I have more disposable income, cities are much safer. Yeah, it’s a ton of work, but that’s not new.

My parents both worked out of necessity and I saw how much calmer and more organized the 1-income families were. That’s when I decided I wanted to SAH. My sister made the same choice.

It will be interesting to see what my daughters choose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT!!!


I thought it was fabulous and amazing to be a WOHM, and SAHMs were a waste of space!!

I thought - SAHMs provided zero value when - house was clean, laundry done, meals cooked, grocery bought, cars serviced, house organized, bills paid, drycleaning picked, social engagements met, entertaining done, kids school and ECs nailed, eldercare sorted, petcare done, yardwork sorted, haircuts scheduled, wellness checkups done, dental and eye exams done, home remodeling/improvement thoughtfully done.

Oh dear! What happened?? Why has life become so shitty???

NP. Obligatory (but true) response that I do all this and also full time in an executive role.

SAHMs don't provide zero value, rather they provide the same home value as working parents without the income.

[Anonymous]

Meals are really not that hard if you serve more courses per meal. It uses up your food, less food waste, more balanced diet, cheaper, more nurtition, more slimming.

For example DH and I ate the following today for lunch -
Chicken soup with huge chunks of chicken and veggies, multi-grain toast with almond butter, orange, salad (cucumber, tomato, mushrooms, blanched brocolli, microgreens, nuts, cranberries and seeds), side of blanched spinach with olive-oil, salt and garlic, yogurt with berries.

Still hungry? Drink kefir with spices, eat banana with peanut butter, eat a string cheese, a boiled egg, eat carrots with ranch dressing.

We basically worked with a nutritionist who believes in eating everything (even junk food), but also combine veggies, fruits, probiotics, nuts, seeds and protein with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT!!!


I thought it was fabulous and amazing to be a WOHM, and SAHMs were a waste of space!!

I thought - SAHMs provided zero value when - house was clean, laundry done, meals cooked, grocery bought, cars serviced, house organized, bills paid, drycleaning picked, social engagements met, entertaining done, kids school and ECs nailed, eldercare sorted, petcare done, yardwork sorted, haircuts scheduled, wellness checkups done, dental and eye exams done, home remodeling/improvement thoughtfully done.

Oh dear! What happened?? Why has life become so shitty???

NP. Obligatory (but true) response that I do all this and also full time in an executive role.

SAHMs don't provide zero value, rather they provide the same home value as working parents without the income.

+2 But I recognize that other people have different capabilities, executive functioning and mental health than me and I give them grace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.fastcompany.com/91496750/new-second-shift-burning-out-both-parents

We are a dual working parent household and I so wish we had understood how awful it would be.

We both work in office, commute 30-60 min each way, and work 8-9 hour days. We thought this would be a reasonable setup, with one going in a little early and the other late to handle the morning and evening kid wrangling.

But it has just drained our entire life away. There is always a mess in the house (and now the yard, yay spring), weekends are errands, 7 piles of laundry, cleaning, yardwork.

We don’t make the kind of money we can outsource, like in the article above where they order out for dinner (I think us Millennials order the most takeout of any generation?).

We have no nearby family, no extra cash, and every moment is spoken for. And of course now apparently the good schools we slaved to afford to buy zoned for don’t matter because there won’t be any jobs for our kids.

Just a PSA to GenZ…

The things that helped us during those younger children years:

Prioritizing sleep- getting enough sleep made us more efficient and less tired.
Getting an every other week cleaning lady
Doing laundry one load at a time throughout the week
Double or triple batch cooking on the weekend, we also cooked enough to bring in leftovers for lunch

Its was still a slog, but it was much more manageable when we did those things.

We cook from scratch every night. We dont eat casseroles or things that keep well for 2-3 days nor pack well for lunch. Plus my spouse and one daughter is a vegetarian which complicates meal planning.

Hilarious you think casseroles are the only thing that will “keep”.

Batch cook and use your freezer. Buy those one cup silicone freezer molds. Make a giant pot of pasta sauce and freeze in one cup blocks. Does your family eat chili? That also freezes well.

Roasted potatoes and sweet potatoes also freeze really well and can be heated up in an air fryer in 7 minutes.

Get creative with your meal planning. Make a double portion of protein Monday. Eat it with a side of roasted potatoes and some kind of vegetable. Tuesday can be rice/other grain depending on preference bowls with the same protein. Get a rice cooker. That night while you’re prepping dinner make a big pot of pasta. Wednesday will be pasta night, using your delicious frozen premade sauce.

Our time is not in making sauce — what exactly are you doing there, cooking down raw tomatoes? We mix olive oil, pureed tomatoes, fresh garlic and herbs and it’s ready in 15 minutes of simmering.

The time suck in food prep is vegetables. We roast eggplant, sautéed green beans, salads which have cut cherry tomatoes, onions, cukes, carrots. The fresh vegetables take a lot of prep, and frozen precut veggie do not cook right unless you are making a blended soup.

I do cook meat ahead of time.

Only 15 minutes of simmering?? I usually make a meat sauce, so I brown the meat and then I start with plain tomato sauce, add diced tomatoes, and other vegetables like roasted peppers, onions, a small amount of carrots, fresh herbs etc etc. I feel like a good sauce needs to simmer at least an hour.

That said 15 minutes is still 15 minutes. On the nights we eat pasta I make the noodles at some point before dinner (the night before or I've been known to do it while preparing breakfast) so all I need to do is warm up the noodles and the sauce I already froze.

Also sauteeing green beans doesn't take that long. Salads can be made easier. Why don't you make quick pickled onions? You chop them all at once and they last a few weeks in the fridge and I feel like they add a certain extra something to salads. Cherry tomatoes don't need to be cut.

Roasted vegetables can last a few days in the fridge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT!!!


I thought it was fabulous and amazing to be a WOHM, and SAHMs were a waste of space!!

I thought - SAHMs provided zero value when - house was clean, laundry done, meals cooked, grocery bought, cars serviced, house organized, bills paid, drycleaning picked, social engagements met, entertaining done, kids school and ECs nailed, eldercare sorted, petcare done, yardwork sorted, haircuts scheduled, wellness checkups done, dental and eye exams done, home remodeling/improvement thoughtfully done.

Oh dear! What happened?? Why has life become so shitty???

NP. Obligatory (but true) response that I do all this and also full time in an executive role.

SAHMs don't provide zero value, rather they provide the same home value as working parents without the income.

Who watches your children while you work? If it’s not a parent, you are outsourcing that and that is something a SAHM provides that you don’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I see these posts, I always wonder if the OP had a SAHP or is generally unobservant. I and most of my millennial friends came from dual income families and our lives are pretty similar to what we grew up with (particularly those with transplant parents). In many ways, I have it easier than my parents: remote work exists, I have more disposable income, cities are much safer. Yeah, it’s a ton of work, but that’s not new.

I definitely think this is right. Ever since our second was born, DH has been bemoaning the lack of free time and the amount of chores and childcare he now needs to do. Like… what did he expect?! He also spends at least an hour each day working out, so it’s not like he gets zero time to himself. Plus we have local family who are able to help us out with sick days, school breaks, date night babysitting, etc. All in all, I think we have it pretty good for a dual-working parent family!

However, DH grew up with a SAHM, a dad who worked a lot and did minimal housework/childcare, au pairs/nannies, and housekeepers. I think that has got to be coloring his expectations. I grew up in a family with two parents who worked outside the house, so our lifestyle - which DH maintains is SO difficult - just seems normal to me.

Sounds like your DH had a fabulous lifestyle growing up. Why wasn’t he able to fund a similar lifestyle himself once he reached adulthood? At least the nannies, housekeeper and staff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.fastcompany.com/91496750/new-second-shift-burning-out-both-parents

We are a dual working parent household and I so wish we had understood how awful it would be.

We both work in office, commute 30-60 min each way, and work 8-9 hour days. We thought this would be a reasonable setup, with one going in a little early and the other late to handle the morning and evening kid wrangling.

But it has just drained our entire life away. There is always a mess in the house (and now the yard, yay spring), weekends are errands, 7 piles of laundry, cleaning, yardwork.

We don’t make the kind of money we can outsource, like in the article above where they order out for dinner (I think us Millennials order the most takeout of any generation?).

We have no nearby family, no extra cash, and every moment is spoken for. And of course now apparently the good schools we slaved to afford to buy zoned for don’t matter because there won’t be any jobs for our kids.

Just a PSA to GenZ…

The things that helped us during those younger children years:

Prioritizing sleep- getting enough sleep made us more efficient and less tired.
Getting an every other week cleaning lady
Doing laundry one load at a time throughout the week
Double or triple batch cooking on the weekend, we also cooked enough to bring in leftovers for lunch

Its was still a slog, but it was much more manageable when we did those things.

We cook from scratch every night. We dont eat casseroles or things that keep well for 2-3 days nor pack well for lunch. Plus my spouse and one daughter is a vegetarian which complicates meal planning.

Hilarious you think casseroles are the only thing that will “keep”.

Batch cook and use your freezer. Buy those one cup silicone freezer molds. Make a giant pot of pasta sauce and freeze in one cup blocks. Does your family eat chili? That also freezes well.

Roasted potatoes and sweet potatoes also freeze really well and can be heated up in an air fryer in 7 minutes.

Get creative with your meal planning. Make a double portion of protein Monday. Eat it with a side of roasted potatoes and some kind of vegetable. Tuesday can be rice/other grain depending on preference bowls with the same protein. Get a rice cooker. That night while you’re prepping dinner make a big pot of pasta. Wednesday will be pasta night, using your delicious frozen premade sauce.

Our time is not in making sauce — what exactly are you doing there, cooking down raw tomatoes? We mix olive oil, pureed tomatoes, fresh garlic and herbs and it’s ready in 15 minutes of simmering.

The time suck in food prep is vegetables. We roast eggplant, sautéed green beans, salads which have cut cherry tomatoes, onions, cukes, carrots. The fresh vegetables take a lot of prep, and frozen precut veggie do not cook right unless you are making a blended soup.

I do cook meat ahead of time.

Only 15 minutes of simmering?? I usually make a meat sauce, so I brown the meat and then I start with plain tomato sauce, add diced tomatoes, and other vegetables like roasted peppers, onions, a small amount of carrots, fresh herbs etc etc. I feel like a good sauce needs to simmer at least an hour.

That said 15 minutes is still 15 minutes. On the nights we eat pasta I make the noodles at some point before dinner (the night before or I've been known to do it while preparing breakfast) so all I need to do is warm up the noodles and the sauce I already froze.

Also sauteeing green beans doesn't take that long. Salads can be made easier. Why don't you make quick pickled onions? You chop them all at once and they last a few weeks in the fridge and I feel like they add a certain extra something to salads. Cherry tomatoes don't need to be cut.

Roasted vegetables can last a few days in the fridge.

I can make an arrabiata sauce is 15-20 minutes with minimal ingredients.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.fastcompany.com/91496750/new-second-shift-burning-out-both-parents

We are a dual working parent household and I so wish we had understood how awful it would be.

We both work in office, commute 30-60 min each way, and work 8-9 hour days. We thought this would be a reasonable setup, with one going in a little early and the other late to handle the morning and evening kid wrangling.

But it has just drained our entire life away. There is always a mess in the house (and now the yard, yay spring), weekends are errands, 7 piles of laundry, cleaning, yardwork.

We don’t make the kind of money we can outsource, like in the article above where they order out for dinner (I think us Millennials order the most takeout of any generation?).

We have no nearby family, no extra cash, and every moment is spoken for. And of course now apparently the good schools we slaved to afford to buy zoned for don’t matter because there won’t be any jobs for our kids.

Just a PSA to GenZ…

Sorry, what's the message of the PSA?

That men have now been socialized to believe they are feminists for wanting their wife to work (and this way they don't have the pressure of being sole providers) but still feel shocked that they can't veg out after work even though they chose to have children.

Says who? Your delusional mind?

[Anonymous]

OP, if you are a man you may not be managing your household effectively. Often times, men just don't perceive the patterns and cycles of daily, weekly, monthly, etc., so they're just making it up as they go along and constantly behind. You need to pick one category, set aside quiet time to take a hard look at it and systematize it.

You need to very seriously improve your cooking efficiency, and suck it up re: eating leftovers. Get on a two-week meal plan rotation, figure out how to batch cook and freeze, whatever will make you stop spending so much time.

Same with laundry-- first of all, no white laundry allowed, nobody wears white clothes. Pick certain regular days of the week for washing. Tee up a load in the morning, start it when you arrive home, put it in the dryer after dinner. The next day, put it away. Stop folding laundry for the kids, just toss it loose in their dresser.

I think you meant "Jenga" rather than "Jumanji"-- I really feel sorry for you if it's Jumanji and that's concerning. You need to have less stuff, period. You don't need half as much as you think you do, and the kids will be better off with less toys anyway. Set aside 30 minutes each Saturday and spend it finding things to get rid of. Start with your own clothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT!!!


I thought it was fabulous and amazing to be a WOHM, and SAHMs were a waste of space!!

I thought - SAHMs provided zero value when - house was clean, laundry done, meals cooked, grocery bought, cars serviced, house organized, bills paid, drycleaning picked, social engagements met, entertaining done, kids school and ECs nailed, eldercare sorted, petcare done, yardwork sorted, haircuts scheduled, wellness checkups done, dental and eye exams done, home remodeling/improvement thoughtfully done.

Oh dear! What happened?? Why has life become so shitty???

Wow, scrapping the barrel there.

lol that one and “paying bills”. Sahm always list this as an important task and really how long does this take?

Seriously. Everything is on autopay ot easily done online. I pay bills in Ubers between work meetings. Do I get a prize 😆😆😆

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.fastcompany.com/91496750/new-second-shift-burning-out-both-parents

We are a dual working parent household and I so wish we had understood how awful it would be.

We both work in office, commute 30-60 min each way, and work 8-9 hour days. We thought this would be a reasonable setup, with one going in a little early and the other late to handle the morning and evening kid wrangling.

But it has just drained our entire life away. There is always a mess in the house (and now the yard, yay spring), weekends are errands, 7 piles of laundry, cleaning, yardwork.

We don’t make the kind of money we can outsource, like in the article above where they order out for dinner (I think us Millennials order the most takeout of any generation?).

We have no nearby family, no extra cash, and every moment is spoken for. And of course now apparently the good schools we slaved to afford to buy zoned for don’t matter because there won’t be any jobs for our kids.

Just a PSA to GenZ…

Sorry, what's the message of the PSA?

That men have now been socialized to believe they are feminists for wanting their wife to work (and this way they don't have the pressure of being sole providers) but still feel shocked that they can't veg out after work even though they chose to have children.

Says who? Your delusional mind?

They like the money. Most of the women I know out earn their husbands. The husbands aren’t making a point to signal their solidarity with whatever PP’s definition of feminism is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT!!!


I thought it was fabulous and amazing to be a WOHM, and SAHMs were a waste of space!!

I thought - SAHMs provided zero value when - house was clean, laundry done, meals cooked, grocery bought, cars serviced, house organized, bills paid, drycleaning picked, social engagements met, entertaining done, kids school and ECs nailed, eldercare sorted, petcare done, yardwork sorted, haircuts scheduled, wellness checkups done, dental and eye exams done, home remodeling/improvement thoughtfully done.

Oh dear! What happened?? Why has life become so shitty???

Wow, scrapping the barrel there.

lol that one and “paying bills”. Sahm always list this as an important task and really how long does this take?

Seriously. Everything is on autopay ot easily done online. I pay bills in Ubers between work meetings. Do I get a prize 😆😆😆

Sure, it's all easy until you have to start playing phone tag with health insurance companies and medical providers to figure out why they are billing you for stuff that should be covered. Or until your 529 provider screws up a rollover. Then it's nice to have an adult with free time during business hours....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT!!!


I thought it was fabulous and amazing to be a WOHM, and SAHMs were a waste of space!!

I thought - SAHMs provided zero value when - house was clean, laundry done, meals cooked, grocery bought, cars serviced, house organized, bills paid, drycleaning picked, social engagements met, entertaining done, kids school and ECs nailed, eldercare sorted, petcare done, yardwork sorted, haircuts scheduled, wellness checkups done, dental and eye exams done, home remodeling/improvement thoughtfully done.

Oh dear! What happened?? Why has life become so shitty???

NP. Obligatory (but true) response that I do all this and also full time in an executive role.

SAHMs don't provide zero value, rather they provide the same home value as working parents without the income.

Sure. So why are WOHMs falling apart? Be happy, proud and fulfilled. WOHMs should have less angst than SAHMs because a) they can outsource lots of stuff with their money and b) their DHs are doing their second shift too. No? Should it not all be easy-peasy?