Second Shift - sucks for dads too

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT!!!


I thought it was fabulous and amazing to be a WOHM, and SAHMs were a waste of space!!

I thought - SAHMs provided zero value when - house was clean, laundry done, meals cooked, grocery bought, cars serviced, house organized, bills paid, drycleaning picked, social engagements met, entertaining done, kids school and ECs nailed, eldercare sorted, petcare done, yardwork sorted, haircuts scheduled, wellness checkups done, dental and eye exams done, home remodeling/improvement thoughtfully done.

Oh dear! What happened?? Why has life become so shitty???

Wow, scrapping the barrel there.

lol that one and “paying bills”. Sahm always list this as an important task and really how long does this take?

Seriously. Everything is on autopay ot easily done online. I pay bills in Ubers between work meetings. Do I get a prize 😆😆😆

Your DH should be paying the bills on his "second shift". Seriously, is the WOHM flex now that they can do the SAHM job too! Well, congratulations!

I pay some of the bills. It’s not a big deal. And sorry, but having the man handle all the finances is an awful idea. I like financial independence and awareness. And I handle all the investments. But good for you, I guess, for being a financial ostrich?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.fastcompany.com/91496750/new-second-shift-burning-out-both-parents

We are a dual working parent household and I so wish we had understood how awful it would be.

We both work in office, commute 30-60 min each way, and work 8-9 hour days. We thought this would be a reasonable setup, with one going in a little early and the other late to handle the morning and evening kid wrangling.

But it has just drained our entire life away. There is always a mess in the house (and now the yard, yay spring), weekends are errands, 7 piles of laundry, cleaning, yardwork.

We don’t make the kind of money we can outsource, like in the article above where they order out for dinner (I think us Millennials order the most takeout of any generation?).

We have no nearby family, no extra cash, and every moment is spoken for. And of course now apparently the good schools we slaved to afford to buy zoned for don’t matter because there won’t be any jobs for our kids.

Just a PSA to GenZ…

Whenever parents complain about this, I always ask, what exactly did you think raising kids was going to be like?

If you grew up in the 80s/90s, this was what life was. Regular daily life was come home, cook dinner, do chores, go to bed. Weekends were more chores, being dragged by your parents to run errands, and trips to the park. A couple times a year you went to the movies, maybe once a month you'd go out for pizza.

Our parents didn't have hobbies. Hell, my parents spent weekends buying junk at flea markets and then re-selling them at our garage sales for extra cash because their salaries didn't cover everything. That was their "hobby".

Messes AND financial problems are easily solved by, get rid of all the crap in your house and quit buying more.

I also want to check their screen time. My xH spent hours a day scrolling his phone, then complained he never had time for anything he wanted to do. Well, duh. Instead of spending 45 minutes pooping, get it done in 2 minutes then go do whatever it is you actually want to do.

Oh you mean when you could live off of one parents income? I grew up in the 90s, my mom stayed home as did virtually every other kid I knew.

As I said in my response, both my parents works and had side hustles. I grew up in North Arlington, and nearly all my friends had parents who both worked. My grandparents, who also lived in North Arlington, also both worked.

Having two incomes has long been the norm in the DC area.

They probably didn’t also have to supplement your education daily because public schools actually educated. Now parents send their kids to school, then have to school at home in the afternoons

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that OP makes it sound so unfair that he has a second shift and how that is somehow under appreciated. Like he is not supposed to have a second shift but society has conspired to give him one. Meanwhile women just expect it.

This is the thing I notice about men who split parenting and housework relatively equally with their wives (who also work) - they consider it some kind of huge notable thing that they are MEN who have to balance work with family obligations. If they see a lot of men dropping off kids at daycare, they think to themselves, "wow, these men are so evolved" without thinking about the absurdity and injustice of the alternative - dumping both drop off and pickup on the wives that ALSO have jobs. It's not "evolved" that there are men at daycare drop off, it means there are two working parents and the men are more likely to do drop off so they can work later.

Agree with this. My xH was like this, despite us both working and knowing I would continue to work after kids. He massively resented the second shift and frequently complained about how he should have listened to his mother, who told him to marry a woman who would “take care of him”. Many men I know are like this, usually until they get divorced, then suddenly they try to be super dad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.fastcompany.com/91496750/new-second-shift-burning-out-both-parents

We are a dual working parent household and I so wish we had understood how awful it would be.

We both work in office, commute 30-60 min each way, and work 8-9 hour days. We thought this would be a reasonable setup, with one going in a little early and the other late to handle the morning and evening kid wrangling.

But it has just drained our entire life away. There is always a mess in the house (and now the yard, yay spring), weekends are errands, 7 piles of laundry, cleaning, yardwork.

We don’t make the kind of money we can outsource, like in the article above where they order out for dinner (I think us Millennials order the most takeout of any generation?).

We have no nearby family, no extra cash, and every moment is spoken for. And of course now apparently the good schools we slaved to afford to buy zoned for don’t matter because there won’t be any jobs for our kids.

Just a PSA to GenZ…

Whenever parents complain about this, I always ask, what exactly did you think raising kids was going to be like?

If you grew up in the 80s/90s, this was what life was. Regular daily life was come home, cook dinner, do chores, go to bed. Weekends were more chores, being dragged by your parents to run errands, and trips to the park. A couple times a year you went to the movies, maybe once a month you'd go out for pizza.

Our parents didn't have hobbies. Hell, my parents spent weekends buying junk at flea markets and then re-selling them at our garage sales for extra cash because their salaries didn't cover everything. That was their "hobby".

Messes AND financial problems are easily solved by, get rid of all the crap in your house and quit buying more.

I also want to check their screen time. My xH spent hours a day scrolling his phone, then complained he never had time for anything he wanted to do. Well, duh. Instead of spending 45 minutes pooping, get it done in 2 minutes then go do whatever it is you actually want to do.

Oh you mean when you could live off of one parents income? I grew up in the 90s, my mom stayed home as did virtually every other kid I knew.

As I said in my response, both my parents works and had side hustles. I grew up in North Arlington, and nearly all my friends had parents who both worked. My grandparents, who also lived in North Arlington, also both worked.

Having two incomes has long been the norm in the DC area.

They probably didn’t also have to supplement your education daily because public schools actually educated. Now parents send their kids to school, then have to school at home in the afternoons

You’re over-parenting. Some help with education is required, but if you’re spending so much time on it that you’re resentful like OP and your all stressed out, that’s not good for you or your kids. Kids need downtime. You’re going to give them a mental health disorder with all that pressure.

And no, I don’t buy that it’s required nowadays. There are plenty of ways to get into college without driving yourself crazy with academics. There are alternatives to college.

Seriously, 99% of the problem could be solved by cutting back on your kids’ academics and activities. Chill at home and have them help out with chores. This is what families did up until like the last 15 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would never leave the house with the dryer on.

NP. Occasionally I would let it finish its cycle if I had to leave, but I don't do it anymore since a drawstring got caught in the drum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.fastcompany.com/91496750/new-second-shift-burning-out-both-parents

We are a dual working parent household and I so wish we had understood how awful it would be.

We both work in office, commute 30-60 min each way, and work 8-9 hour days. We thought this would be a reasonable setup, with one going in a little early and the other late to handle the morning and evening kid wrangling.

But it has just drained our entire life away. There is always a mess in the house (and now the yard, yay spring), weekends are errands, 7 piles of laundry, cleaning, yardwork.

We don’t make the kind of money we can outsource, like in the article above where they order out for dinner (I think us Millennials order the most takeout of any generation?).

We have no nearby family, no extra cash, and every moment is spoken for. And of course now apparently the good schools we slaved to afford to buy zoned for don’t matter because there won’t be any jobs for our kids.

Just a PSA to GenZ…

Whenever parents complain about this, I always ask, what exactly did you think raising kids was going to be like?

If you grew up in the 80s/90s, this was what life was. Regular daily life was come home, cook dinner, do chores, go to bed. Weekends were more chores, being dragged by your parents to run errands, and trips to the park. A couple times a year you went to the movies, maybe once a month you'd go out for pizza.

Our parents didn't have hobbies. Hell, my parents spent weekends buying junk at flea markets and then re-selling them at our garage sales for extra cash because their salaries didn't cover everything. That was their "hobby".

Messes AND financial problems are easily solved by, get rid of all the crap in your house and quit buying more.

I also want to check their screen time. My xH spent hours a day scrolling his phone, then complained he never had time for anything he wanted to do. Well, duh. Instead of spending 45 minutes pooping, get it done in 2 minutes then go do whatever it is you actually want to do.

Oh you mean when you could live off of one parents income? I grew up in the 90s, my mom stayed home as did virtually every other kid I knew.

As I said in my response, both my parents works and had side hustles. I grew up in North Arlington, and nearly all my friends had parents who both worked. My grandparents, who also lived in North Arlington, also both worked.

Having two incomes has long been the norm in the DC area.

They probably didn’t also have to supplement your education daily because public schools actually educated. Now parents send their kids to school, then have to school at home in the afternoons

You’re over-parenting. Some help with education is required, but if you’re spending so much time on it that you’re resentful like OP and your all stressed out, that’s not good for you or your kids. Kids need downtime. You’re going to give them a mental health disorder with all that pressure.

And no, I don’t buy that it’s required nowadays. There are plenty of ways to get into college without driving yourself crazy with academics. There are alternatives to college.

Seriously, 99% of the problem could be solved by cutting back on your kids’ academics and activities. Chill at home and have them help out with chores. This is what families did up until like the last 15 years.

Different parenting philosophies, parents, and kids.

[Anonymous]

There are working dads with working spouses who do nothing and there are working dads with SAHM spouses who do a lot. If you have a long commute every single day and want to cook a beautiful meal each evening that’s a lot of work. It doesn’t mean it’s the wrong choice.

To the SAHM who decided to come on this thread and make it about herself, I am so embarrassed for you. I support women doing whatever they want and whatever works for their families but the level of defensiveness is so pathetic. Households choose to have two working parents for many reasons. If your set up works for you try gratitude. If your husband is happy great! If he wishes you would go back to work arguing on DCUM is not going to help you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would never leave the house with the dryer on.

NP. Occasionally I would let it finish its cycle if I had to leave, but I don't do it anymore since a drawstring got caught in the drum.

I just take away all the drawstrings from my family. Or I take a needle and thread and sew the midpoint of the drawstring to the center of the hood so it still functions but cannot be removed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT!!!


I thought it was fabulous and amazing to be a WOHM, and SAHMs were a waste of space!!

I thought - SAHMs provided zero value when - house was clean, laundry done, meals cooked, grocery bought, cars serviced, house organized, bills paid, drycleaning picked, social engagements met, entertaining done, kids school and ECs nailed, eldercare sorted, petcare done, yardwork sorted, haircuts scheduled, wellness checkups done, dental and eye exams done, home remodeling/improvement thoughtfully done.

Oh dear! What happened?? Why has life become so shitty???

Wow, scrapping the barrel there.

lol that one and “paying bills”. Sahm always list this as an important task and really how long does this take?

Seriously. Everything is on autopay ot easily done online. I pay bills in Ubers between work meetings. Do I get a prize 😆😆😆

Sure, it's all easy until you have to start playing phone tag with health insurance companies and medical providers to figure out why they are billing you for stuff that should be covered. Or until your 529 provider screws up a rollover. Then it's nice to have an adult with free time during business hours....

Again, you’re really reaching here. You chose to have a more relaxed life and stay home. Why do you feel the need for us to validate you? Just enjoy your life.

I'm the PP you're responding to and no, I did not choose to stay home! I work full time outside the home, no remote work, and I find dealing with insurance and financial mess ups to be a horrible time suck. I WISH I had an adult at home with free time to do it for me!

My point is autopay is easy when everything is going right, but that's not how our medical system works. You're lucky if you dont have to deal with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wanted a soft life long before that was a thing. My working mom did not cope with it all well (and my dad was not that helpful.)

So I married a high earner with an eye towards being a SAHM and only had 2 kids. It’s worked out rather nicely if I do say so myself.

You women that want to do it all, more power to you. I just never wanted that. Ever.

Good thing your kids don’t have special needs because there goes your soft life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT!!!


I thought it was fabulous and amazing to be a WOHM, and SAHMs were a waste of space!!

I thought - SAHMs provided zero value when - house was clean, laundry done, meals cooked, grocery bought, cars serviced, house organized, bills paid, drycleaning picked, social engagements met, entertaining done, kids school and ECs nailed, eldercare sorted, petcare done, yardwork sorted, haircuts scheduled, wellness checkups done, dental and eye exams done, home remodeling/improvement thoughtfully done.

Oh dear! What happened?? Why has life become so shitty???

Wow, scrapping the barrel there.

lol that one and “paying bills”. Sahm always list this as an important task and really how long does this take?

Seriously. Everything is on autopay ot easily done online. I pay bills in Ubers between work meetings. Do I get a prize 😆😆😆

Sure, it's all easy until you have to start playing phone tag with health insurance companies and medical providers to figure out why they are billing you for stuff that should be covered. Or until your 529 provider screws up a rollover. Then it's nice to have an adult with free time during business hours....

We have never encountered anything like this, perhaps you have bad luck with services? Are you in a southern state with worse consumer protections?

I live in Maryland. Have you never had a screwed up insurance claim, or a rejection of services that should be covered? Really? Good for you, but I promise it's not that uncommon. Especially for emergency or hospital care when different specialists and coverage networks are involved.

[Anonymous]

I just wanted to say that for everyone where both parents work away from home especially non desk jobs, I am in awe of how you guys can manage all the chores and day-to-day duties of...living. I work from home thankfully and use some of my work time just about every day to take care of....something. Paying bills, negotiating bills, run for groceries/Costco, doctors, dentists, cleaning, laundry, car maintenance/repairs, yard work, etc etc...and these are things that I did this week or last during work hours. This allows me time for after school chores like running the kids to practice, helping with meals, etc. I have no idea how people that work in construction for example get it all done. Anyway...my point is I'm in awe of those of you that get it all done and don't cheat on your 9-5.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.fastcompany.com/91496750/new-second-shift-burning-out-both-parents

We are a dual working parent household and I so wish we had understood how awful it would be.

We both work in office, commute 30-60 min each way, and work 8-9 hour days. We thought this would be a reasonable setup, with one going in a little early and the other late to handle the morning and evening kid wrangling.

But it has just drained our entire life away. There is always a mess in the house (and now the yard, yay spring), weekends are errands, 7 piles of laundry, cleaning, yardwork.

We don’t make the kind of money we can outsource, like in the article above where they order out for dinner (I think us Millennials order the most takeout of any generation?).

We have no nearby family, no extra cash, and every moment is spoken for. And of course now apparently the good schools we slaved to afford to buy zoned for don’t matter because there won’t be any jobs for our kids.

Just a PSA to GenZ…

Whenever parents complain about this, I always ask, what exactly did you think raising kids was going to be like?

If you grew up in the 80s/90s, this was what life was. Regular daily life was come home, cook dinner, do chores, go to bed. Weekends were more chores, being dragged by your parents to run errands, and trips to the park. A couple times a year you went to the movies, maybe once a month you'd go out for pizza.

Our parents didn't have hobbies. Hell, my parents spent weekends buying junk at flea markets and then re-selling them at our garage sales for extra cash because their salaries didn't cover everything. That was their "hobby".

Messes AND financial problems are easily solved by, get rid of all the crap in your house and quit buying more.

I also want to check their screen time. My xH spent hours a day scrolling his phone, then complained he never had time for anything he wanted to do. Well, duh. Instead of spending 45 minutes pooping, get it done in 2 minutes then go do whatever it is you actually want to do.

Oh you mean when you could live off of one parents income? I grew up in the 90s, my mom stayed home as did virtually every other kid I knew.

As I said in my response, both my parents works and had side hustles. I grew up in North Arlington, and nearly all my friends had parents who both worked. My grandparents, who also lived in North Arlington, also both worked.

Having two incomes has long been the norm in the DC area.

They probably didn’t also have to supplement your education daily because public schools actually educated. Now parents send their kids to school, then have to school at home in the afternoons

You’re over-parenting. Some help with education is required, but if you’re spending so much time on it that you’re resentful like OP and your all stressed out, that’s not good for you or your kids. Kids need downtime. You’re going to give them a mental health disorder with all that pressure.

And no, I don’t buy that it’s required nowadays. There are plenty of ways to get into college without driving yourself crazy with academics. There are alternatives to college.

Seriously, 99% of the problem could be solved by cutting back on your kids’ academics and activities. Chill at home and have them help out with chores. This is what families did up until like the last 15 years.

Different parenting philosophies, parents, and kids.

Of course everyone is allowed to have different parenting philosophies. But then you have to accept the trade-offs and quit complaining.

If you want to live in an expensive area and have expensive things, both parents will need to work.

If you spend all of your time on extracurriculars, then there will be less time for the things you want to do or for maintaining the house.

People like OP want to continue living the way they did before kids, with extra money and extra time, and no trade-offs. It doesn't work that way. You have to pick and choose what is important to you.

If academics are important to you, great. That means you'll have to give up other things to free up the time and money for it. If you're just going to be resentful and complain, then don't prioritize it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.fastcompany.com/91496750/new-second-shift-burning-out-both-parents

We are a dual working parent household and I so wish we had understood how awful it would be.

We both work in office, commute 30-60 min each way, and work 8-9 hour days. We thought this would be a reasonable setup, with one going in a little early and the other late to handle the morning and evening kid wrangling.

But it has just drained our entire life away. There is always a mess in the house (and now the yard, yay spring), weekends are errands, 7 piles of laundry, cleaning, yardwork.

We don’t make the kind of money we can outsource, like in the article above where they order out for dinner (I think us Millennials order the most takeout of any generation?).

We have no nearby family, no extra cash, and every moment is spoken for. And of course now apparently the good schools we slaved to afford to buy zoned for don’t matter because there won’t be any jobs for our kids.

Just a PSA to GenZ…

Whenever parents complain about this, I always ask, what exactly did you think raising kids was going to be like?

If you grew up in the 80s/90s, this was what life was. Regular daily life was come home, cook dinner, do chores, go to bed. Weekends were more chores, being dragged by your parents to run errands, and trips to the park. A couple times a year you went to the movies, maybe once a month you'd go out for pizza.

Our parents didn't have hobbies. Hell, my parents spent weekends buying junk at flea markets and then re-selling them at our garage sales for extra cash because their salaries didn't cover everything. That was their "hobby".

Messes AND financial problems are easily solved by, get rid of all the crap in your house and quit buying more.

I also want to check their screen time. My xH spent hours a day scrolling his phone, then complained he never had time for anything he wanted to do. Well, duh. Instead of spending 45 minutes pooping, get it done in 2 minutes then go do whatever it is you actually want to do.

Shout out to the Saturday garage sale life! I'm a suburban child of the 70s and that was life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.fastcompany.com/91496750/new-second-shift-burning-out-both-parents

We are a dual working parent household and I so wish we had understood how awful it would be.

We both work in office, commute 30-60 min each way, and work 8-9 hour days. We thought this would be a reasonable setup, with one going in a little early and the other late to handle the morning and evening kid wrangling.

But it has just drained our entire life away. There is always a mess in the house (and now the yard, yay spring), weekends are errands, 7 piles of laundry, cleaning, yardwork.

We don’t make the kind of money we can outsource, like in the article above where they order out for dinner (I think us Millennials order the most takeout of any generation?).

We have no nearby family, no extra cash, and every moment is spoken for. And of course now apparently the good schools we slaved to afford to buy zoned for don’t matter because there won’t be any jobs for our kids.

Just a PSA to GenZ…

Whenever parents complain about this, I always ask, what exactly did you think raising kids was going to be like?

If you grew up in the 80s/90s, this was what life was. Regular daily life was come home, cook dinner, do chores, go to bed. Weekends were more chores, being dragged by your parents to run errands, and trips to the park. A couple times a year you went to the movies, maybe once a month you'd go out for pizza.

Our parents didn't have hobbies. Hell, my parents spent weekends buying junk at flea markets and then re-selling them at our garage sales for extra cash because their salaries didn't cover everything. That was their "hobby".

Messes AND financial problems are easily solved by, get rid of all the crap in your house and quit buying more.

I also want to check their screen time. My xH spent hours a day scrolling his phone, then complained he never had time for anything he wanted to do. Well, duh. Instead of spending 45 minutes pooping, get it done in 2 minutes then go do whatever it is you actually want to do.

Oh you mean when you could live off of one parents income? I grew up in the 90s, my mom stayed home as did virtually every other kid I knew.

That is your priviliedge talking. That was YOUR life in the 90s.

Are you really so dim that you don't understand that in every generation throughout time there were families where both parents had to work, families with only one parent, afamilieis wih a disabled parent, and families far poorer than you are now who have mothers who don't work? The 90s were not some magical time where every person in the country had the lifestyle you grew up with -- even in your neighborhood and certainly not in the neighborhood across town from you.