At what point is a teen "spoiling the nest" (before college) going too far?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have a conversation with her and set some boundaries for communication and respect.

Tie her gas/fun money and expenses to her following through to commitments.

Tell her you don't want to get to a place where you cut her off at 18 and instead only invest in her kinder and more respectful siblings.

Threatening to cut a kid off to get them to do more chores is a horrible way to parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teen jobs put upper middle class children around unvetted creepers and bad influences. Some of my best girlfriends in high school were sleeping with their 20-something bosses at dead-end jobs, introduced to drugs, binge drinking, the whole nine. One nearly 30 year old creep manager of a cafe tried to propose to my friend before we left for college. We had just turned 18 that summer.

Sorry you didn't get to have any summer fun

lol. PP in fact made me fondly recall the dead end job I had my senior year, drugs, sleeping with older boss, and all! It was great, some of my best memories.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My husband is at his wit's end with her. Our daughter is being belligerent, defiant, comes and goes as she pleases, doesn't lift a finger all summer, refuses to contribute and pick up her young siblings from activities (in a car/gas/insurance we pay for), and her room is a disaster zone. So after 10 weeks of being treated like garbage by her we're supposed to smile and nod and write a $38,000 check and tell her 'have fun sweetie'?

The moment our son started "acting up", car, phone, electronics and money was gone.

He changed his attitude pretty quickly. Try it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My husband is at his wit's end with her. Our daughter is being belligerent, defiant, comes and goes as she pleases, doesn't lift a finger all summer, refuses to contribute and pick up her young siblings from activities (in a car/gas/insurance we pay for), and her room is a disaster zone. So after 10 weeks of being treated like garbage by her we're supposed to smile and nod and write a $38,000 check and tell her 'have fun sweetie'?

Why dies she have a car or a phone?
You are the problem

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have a conversation with her and set some boundaries for communication and respect.

Tie her gas/fun money and expenses to her following through to commitments.

Tell her you don't want to get to a place where you cut her off at 18 and instead only invest in her kinder and more respectful siblings.

Threatening to cut a kid off to get them to do more chores is a horrible way to parent.

Having a conversation about expectations and consequences is not “threatening.” What do you propose instead?

[Anonymous]

So you're mad she won't parent your other children because she's working hard and saving money?

Wow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are living this right now as well.
Rules we have put in place.
If she can't pick up sibling such that I need to do it, there is no using the car that day.
If clothes are not put away, we do not "give back" clean clothes that somehow found the way into the hall hamper.
We sat down and spoke about financial expectations - my DD decided not to work this summer - fine - we are not providing spending $ beyond the small allowance that she has always had. Not giving money for gifts for friends birthday gifts, starbucks habit etc.
When she decided not to get a job, I wrote on a piece of paper the agreement and she signed it. Is is taped up on the wall so we are all on the same page.

She has a job at the country club and saves every cent. She has a lot of money for her age in the bank. And she constantly picks up shifts to make more money. It's also a convenient excuse for everything. I can't do ___, gotta work. Sorry I didn't do ___, so tired from work.

If we consider punishing her, we get guilt tripped that she had good grades and has a job and we don't know how lucky we are. Other parents often tell us this. Can't win.

So she loses her job because you take her car or she buys her own. It’s very simple, you just make it hard.

You got to move out of the "punishing" mindset. Technically she's now an adult, your fiscal responsibilities to her are over and she is equally free to move out on her own and never listen or talk to you again. Everything now is on different terms than when she was a child. You've got to figure out together what her role in your household is going to be--have a discussion about that--what are you going to provide (and lay on the table all that you are providing--food, shelter, utilities, college, any services like cooking, cleaning, etc.) and what is she going to contribute. If you are relying on her to pick up her siblings, she can't pick up an extra shift at work during that time. If she does, she calls and pays for an uber for them. At the same time if her job is dependent on working certain hours, it may be unreasonable to expect her to pick them up. The point isn't to punish--the point is to get her to see she's now an adult with responsibilities and you aren't her doormat in perpetuity. Write this all down.

You aren't "lucky" that she's saving up money for herself or getting good grades--those are for herself, not you. None of this has anything to do with your love of her, your pride for her, your happiness in her successes, your concern for her well-being, your excitement for her future etc. All those can --and should--be continually expressed while still insisting on a respectful, reciprocal relationship from another adult--albeit--your newly adult child-- in your home.

This (minus the asking them to pay for an Uber for a sibling). You should sit down and talk with her. It's time to reframe your relationship. Our oldest is a rising sophomore and I teed up a similar conversation last summer by telling him that the time for his dad and I to parent him in the traditional sense was over - but by living in our home, he had responsibilties and we had expectation of him as a part of our family.

At the minimum you pick up after yourself in any common area, be a considerate and respectful housemate, and shoot us a text if you're staying out all night (DH and I would never do that to our kids or one another) but we sort of had a soft curfew last summer that we dropped once he came back for winter break.

Has it been perfect, no, but we were able to lean on that conversation as a bench mark for how "adults" behave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband is at his wit's end with her. Our daughter is being belligerent, defiant, comes and goes as she pleases, doesn't lift a finger all summer, refuses to contribute and pick up her young siblings from activities (in a car/gas/insurance we pay for), and her room is a disaster zone. So after 10 weeks of being treated like garbage by her we're supposed to smile and nod and write a $38,000 check and tell her 'have fun sweetie'?

Why dies she have a car or a phone?
You are the problem

Are you asking why she is allowed to have a life and operate as a real human being? Do you think the ideal upbringing is holding your children like prisoners?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have a conversation with her and set some boundaries for communication and respect.

Tie her gas/fun money and expenses to her following through to commitments.

Tell her you don't want to get to a place where you cut her off at 18 and instead only invest in her kinder and more respectful siblings.

Threatening to cut a kid off to get them to do more chores is a horrible way to parent.

Having a conversation about expectations and consequences is not “threatening.” What do you propose instead?

That consequences match the conduct. Threatening not to pay for college because of some minor annoyances the summer after senior year is crazy behavior. If you have parented sanely up until now, you already should have tools in your toolbox to handle this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are living this right now as well.
Rules we have put in place.
If she can't pick up sibling such that I need to do it, there is no using the car that day.
If clothes are not put away, we do not "give back" clean clothes that somehow found the way into the hall hamper.
We sat down and spoke about financial expectations - my DD decided not to work this summer - fine - we are not providing spending $ beyond the small allowance that she has always had. Not giving money for gifts for friends birthday gifts, starbucks habit etc.
When she decided not to get a job, I wrote on a piece of paper the agreement and she signed it. Is is taped up on the wall so we are all on the same page.

She has a job at the country club and saves every cent. She has a lot of money for her age in the bank. And she constantly picks up shifts to make more money. It's also a convenient excuse for everything. I can't do ___, gotta work. Sorry I didn't do ___, so tired from work.

If we consider punishing her, we get guilt tripped that she had good grades and has a job and we don't know how lucky we are. Other parents often tell us this. Can't win.

So she loses her job because you take her car or she buys her own. It’s very simple, you just make it hard.

You got to move out of the "punishing" mindset. Technically she's now an adult, your fiscal responsibilities to her are over and she is equally free to move out on her own and never listen or talk to you again. Everything now is on different terms than when she was a child. You've got to figure out together what her role in your household is going to be--have a discussion about that--what are you going to provide (and lay on the table all that you are providing--food, shelter, utilities, college, any services like cooking, cleaning, etc.) and what is she going to contribute. If you are relying on her to pick up her siblings, she can't pick up an extra shift at work during that time. If she does, she calls and pays for an uber for them. At the same time if her job is dependent on working certain hours, it may be unreasonable to expect her to pick them up. The point isn't to punish--the point is to get her to see she's now an adult with responsibilities and you aren't her doormat in perpetuity. Write this all down.

You aren't "lucky" that she's saving up money for herself or getting good grades--those are for herself, not you. None of this has anything to do with your love of her, your pride for her, your happiness in her successes, your concern for her well-being, your excitement for her future etc. All those can --and should--be continually expressed while still insisting on a respectful, reciprocal relationship from another adult--albeit--your newly adult child-- in your home.

This (minus the asking them to pay for an Uber for a sibling). You should sit down and talk with her. It's time to reframe your relationship. Our oldest is a rising sophomore and I teed up a similar conversation last summer by telling him that the time for his dad and I to parent him in the traditional sense was over - but by living in our home, he had responsibilties and we had expectation of him as a part of our family.

At the minimum you pick up after yourself in any common area, be a considerate and respectful housemate, and shoot us a text if you're staying out all night (DH and I would never do that to our kids or one another) but we sort of had a soft curfew last summer that we dropped once he came back for winter break.

Has it been perfect, no, but we were able to lean on that conversation as a bench mark for how "adults" behave.

But hadn’t you already been requiring him to be a considerate housemate? That’s what confuses me. Granted my kid is only 12, but I have a very low tolerance for behavior that disturbs the household (making a lot of noise at night, making messes, not helping with chores when asked, speaking rudely.) He’s far from perfect but my end goal is for him to understand he’s part of a household, so he takes that with him when he’s an adult.

[Anonymous]

Nothing works because they know you're full of shit. You're obviously not going to not pay for their college, they have you by the balls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nothing works because they know you're full of shit. You're obviously not going to not pay for their college, they have you by the balls.

That’s why you need to stop with the ridiculous threats and random meltdowns. It’s just like parents who cannot discipline their 4 year olds. You’re paying for college because that’s part of the modern obligation to kids, barring them failing out or something truly awful. College support is not a bargaining chip to get other things out of your kid. If you want them to follow household rules or pitch in, it’s because they are part of the household, not because you’re paying for college. So you need to come to that agreement in a different way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are living this right now as well.
Rules we have put in place.
If she can't pick up sibling such that I need to do it, there is no using the car that day.
If clothes are not put away, we do not "give back" clean clothes that somehow found the way into the hall hamper.
We sat down and spoke about financial expectations - my DD decided not to work this summer - fine - we are not providing spending $ beyond the small allowance that she has always had. Not giving money for gifts for friends birthday gifts, starbucks habit etc.
When she decided not to get a job, I wrote on a piece of paper the agreement and she signed it. Is is taped up on the wall so we are all on the same page.

She has a job at the country club and saves every cent. She has a lot of money for her age in the bank. And she constantly picks up shifts to make more money. It's also a convenient excuse for everything. I can't do ___, gotta work. Sorry I didn't do ___, so tired from work.

If we consider punishing her, we get guilt tripped that she had good grades and has a job and we don't know how lucky we are. Other parents often tell us this. Can't win.

So she loses her job because you take her car or she buys her own. It’s very simple, you just make it hard.

You got to move out of the "punishing" mindset. Technically she's now an adult, your fiscal responsibilities to her are over and she is equally free to move out on her own and never listen or talk to you again. Everything now is on different terms than when she was a child. You've got to figure out together what her role in your household is going to be--have a discussion about that--what are you going to provide (and lay on the table all that you are providing--food, shelter, utilities, college, any services like cooking, cleaning, etc.) and what is she going to contribute. If you are relying on her to pick up her siblings, she can't pick up an extra shift at work during that time. If she does, she calls and pays for an uber for them. At the same time if her job is dependent on working certain hours, it may be unreasonable to expect her to pick them up. The point isn't to punish--the point is to get her to see she's now an adult with responsibilities and you aren't her doormat in perpetuity. Write this all down.

You aren't "lucky" that she's saving up money for herself or getting good grades--those are for herself, not you. None of this has anything to do with your love of her, your pride for her, your happiness in her successes, your concern for her well-being, your excitement for her future etc. All those can --and should--be continually expressed while still insisting on a respectful, reciprocal relationship from another adult--albeit--your newly adult child-- in your home.

This (minus the asking them to pay for an Uber for a sibling). You should sit down and talk with her. It's time to reframe your relationship. Our oldest is a rising sophomore and I teed up a similar conversation last summer by telling him that the time for his dad and I to parent him in the traditional sense was over - but by living in our home, he had responsibilties and we had expectation of him as a part of our family.

At the minimum you pick up after yourself in any common area, be a considerate and respectful housemate, and shoot us a text if you're staying out all night (DH and I would never do that to our kids or one another) but we sort of had a soft curfew last summer that we dropped once he came back for winter break.

Has it been perfect, no, but we were able to lean on that conversation as a bench mark for how "adults" behave.

But hadn’t you already been requiring him to be a considerate housemate? That’s what confuses me. Granted my kid is only 12, but I have a very low tolerance for behavior that disturbs the household (making a lot of noise at night, making messes, not helping with chores when asked, speaking rudely.) He’s far from perfect but my end goal is for him to understand he’s part of a household, so he takes that with him when he’s an adult.

DP here, come back in 6 years :)
Seriously, it is a normal phase. Young adults are establishing independence and no longer want to follow childhood rules. What they don't understand is that if they are not financially independent and living on their own, they don't get to do whatever they want if it disrupts the running of the household.
And that adults living at home absolutely need to help out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are living this right now as well.
Rules we have put in place.
If she can't pick up sibling such that I need to do it, there is no using the car that day.
If clothes are not put away, we do not "give back" clean clothes that somehow found the way into the hall hamper.
We sat down and spoke about financial expectations - my DD decided not to work this summer - fine - we are not providing spending $ beyond the small allowance that she has always had. Not giving money for gifts for friends birthday gifts, starbucks habit etc.
When she decided not to get a job, I wrote on a piece of paper the agreement and she signed it. Is is taped up on the wall so we are all on the same page.

She has a job at the country club and saves every cent. She has a lot of money for her age in the bank. And she constantly picks up shifts to make more money. It's also a convenient excuse for everything. I can't do ___, gotta work. Sorry I didn't do ___, so tired from work.

If we consider punishing her, we get guilt tripped that she had good grades and has a job and we don't know how lucky we are. Other parents often tell us this. Can't win.

So she loses her job because you take her car or she buys her own. It’s very simple, you just make it hard.

You got to move out of the "punishing" mindset. Technically she's now an adult, your fiscal responsibilities to her are over and she is equally free to move out on her own and never listen or talk to you again. Everything now is on different terms than when she was a child. You've got to figure out together what her role in your household is going to be--have a discussion about that--what are you going to provide (and lay on the table all that you are providing--food, shelter, utilities, college, any services like cooking, cleaning, etc.) and what is she going to contribute. If you are relying on her to pick up her siblings, she can't pick up an extra shift at work during that time. If she does, she calls and pays for an uber for them. At the same time if her job is dependent on working certain hours, it may be unreasonable to expect her to pick them up. The point isn't to punish--the point is to get her to see she's now an adult with responsibilities and you aren't her doormat in perpetuity. Write this all down.

You aren't "lucky" that she's saving up money for herself or getting good grades--those are for herself, not you. None of this has anything to do with your love of her, your pride for her, your happiness in her successes, your concern for her well-being, your excitement for her future etc. All those can --and should--be continually expressed while still insisting on a respectful, reciprocal relationship from another adult--albeit--your newly adult child-- in your home.

This (minus the asking them to pay for an Uber for a sibling). You should sit down and talk with her. It's time to reframe your relationship. Our oldest is a rising sophomore and I teed up a similar conversation last summer by telling him that the time for his dad and I to parent him in the traditional sense was over - but by living in our home, he had responsibilties and we had expectation of him as a part of our family.

At the minimum you pick up after yourself in any common area, be a considerate and respectful housemate, and shoot us a text if you're staying out all night (DH and I would never do that to our kids or one another) but we sort of had a soft curfew last summer that we dropped once he came back for winter break.

Has it been perfect, no, but we were able to lean on that conversation as a bench mark for how "adults" behave.

But hadn’t you already been requiring him to be a considerate housemate? That’s what confuses me. Granted my kid is only 12, but I have a very low tolerance for behavior that disturbs the household (making a lot of noise at night, making messes, not helping with chores when asked, speaking rudely.) He’s far from perfect but my end goal is for him to understand he’s part of a household, so he takes that with him when he’s an adult.

DP here, come back in 6 years :)
Seriously, it is a normal phase. Young adults are establishing independence and no longer want to follow childhood rules. What they don't understand is that if they are not financially independent and living on their own, they don't get to do whatever they want if it disrupts the running of the household.
And that adults living at home absolutely need to help out.

But they need to do those things in any household, not just because they are financially dependent. That’s the point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nothing works because they know you're full of shit. You're obviously not going to not pay for their college, they have you by the balls.

Bs she can take away car privileges, phone privileges, she can be grounded. Many possible consequences. So what if that causes her to lose her job? That job is meaningless.