At what point is a teen "spoiling the nest" (before college) going too far?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An allowance? She’s 18. My kids stopped getting an allowance when they got their first jobs. Where did she work this summer? My kid works and pays for his own gas, insurance, and for all of his own fun stuff.

Why do people act like a summer job is some magic bullet which teens humble and grateful? If anything, it makes them less accountable, gives them chances to duck off, make excuses, claim to be too tired, too busy, and the money in their pocket makes them feel like they can tell you to buzz off because they have their own money now and don't need to pretend to be nice for a $50 or $100 Venmo transfer.

you sound absolutely nuts …

I grew up middle class -- everyone from the class president to total screw ups and drug addicts had summer jobs. A high school kid with summer job reveals absolutely nothing about character, maturity, or ambition.

Perhaps. But trying to keep an 18 year old from getting a job the summer before they go to college so you can control them is all kinds of weird and wrong

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An allowance? She’s 18. My kids stopped getting an allowance when they got their first jobs. Where did she work this summer? My kid works and pays for his own gas, insurance, and for all of his own fun stuff.

Why do people act like a summer job is some magic bullet which teens humble and grateful? If anything, it makes them less accountable, gives them chances to duck off, make excuses, claim to be too tired, too busy, and the money in their pocket makes them feel like they can tell you to buzz off because they have their own money now and don't need to pretend to be nice for a $50 or $100 Venmo transfer.

you sound absolutely nuts …

I grew up middle class -- everyone from the class president to total screw ups and drug addicts had summer jobs. A high school kid with summer job reveals absolutely nothing about character, maturity, or ambition.

Perhaps. But trying to keep an 18 year old from getting a job the summer before they go to college so you can control them is all kinds of weird and wrong

DP: I didn't read it as them wanting to keep them from getting a job, rather not to romanticize the effects of having a job as this sort of panacea for jerkiness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An allowance? She’s 18. My kids stopped getting an allowance when they got their first jobs. Where did she work this summer? My kid works and pays for his own gas, insurance, and for all of his own fun stuff.

Why do people act like a summer job is some magic bullet which teens humble and grateful? If anything, it makes them less accountable, gives them chances to duck off, make excuses, claim to be too tired, too busy, and the money in their pocket makes them feel like they can tell you to buzz off because they have their own money now and don't need to pretend to be nice for a $50 or $100 Venmo transfer.

you sound absolutely nuts …

I grew up middle class -- everyone from the class president to total screw ups and drug addicts had summer jobs. A high school kid with summer job reveals absolutely nothing about character, maturity, or ambition.

Perhaps. But trying to keep an 18 year old from getting a job the summer before they go to college so you can control them is all kinds of weird and wrong

DP: I didn't read it as them wanting to keep them from getting a job, rather not to romanticize the effects of having a job as this sort of panacea for jerkiness.

I don’t think anyone said that. Just, it’s a good thing developmentally and also it would be obvious kind of abuse to forbid it.

[Anonymous]

Have a conversation with her and set some boundaries for communication and respect.

Tie her gas/fun money and expenses to her following through to commitments.

Tell her you don't want to get to a place where you cut her off at 18 and instead only invest in her kinder and more respectful siblings.

[Anonymous]

She is testing you. Teens want structure and actually respect parents more who aren't absolute pushovers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are living this right now as well.
Rules we have put in place.
If she can't pick up sibling such that I need to do it, there is no using the car that day.
If clothes are not put away, we do not "give back" clean clothes that somehow found the way into the hall hamper.
We sat down and spoke about financial expectations - my DD decided not to work this summer - fine - we are not providing spending $ beyond the small allowance that she has always had. Not giving money for gifts for friends birthday gifts, starbucks habit etc.
When she decided not to get a job, I wrote on a piece of paper the agreement and she signed it. Is is taped up on the wall so we are all on the same page.

She has a job at the country club and saves every cent. She has a lot of money for her age in the bank. And she constantly picks up shifts to make more money. It's also a convenient excuse for everything. I can't do ___, gotta work. Sorry I didn't do ___, so tired from work.

If we consider punishing her, we get guilt tripped that she had good grades and has a job and we don't know how lucky we are. Other parents often tell us this. Can't win.

She kind of has a point. Your OP painted her as a lazy kid who expects to be waited on hand and foot. But she clearly has ambition and work ethic. I would try picking my battles. Ignore the messy room and let her roommate fight that battle with her if she doesn't change her habits by the fall. Stop making her pick up her siblings, especially if she's worked a double shift that day. They're your kids, not hers. Don't take it personally when she cops an attitude. Do these things and I'd bet a large sum that she lightens up as well.

And for God's sake take Life360 off her phone before she goes to college.

Being a country club lifeguard who sunbaths and socializes all day or cart girl driving around serving drinks to old rich guys for $20 tips demonstrates a high degree of ambition and work ethic?

Just wait until some old rich guy asks her to be his Sugar Baby…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Teen jobs put upper middle class children around unvetted creepers and bad influences. Some of my best girlfriends in high school were sleeping with their 20-something bosses at dead-end jobs, introduced to drugs, binge drinking, the whole nine. One nearly 30 year old creep manager of a cafe tried to propose to my friend before we left for college. We had just turned 18 that summer.

Sorry you didn't get to have any summer fun

[Anonymous]

This forum really attracts some of the absolute worst people on earth, doesn't it.

[Anonymous]

We experienced the exact same thing last summer with our DD.

Hugs.

Try to take the high road, to the extent possible. And do yoga and deep breathing. IMHO, if you push back too much, she could really rebel. It feels wrong to have to give in to entitlement though. Our family's quality of life greatly improved once our DD went off to college, because of DD's entitled attitude.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teen jobs put upper middle class children around unvetted creepers and bad influences. Some of my best girlfriends in high school were sleeping with their 20-something bosses at dead-end jobs, introduced to drugs, binge drinking, the whole nine. One nearly 30 year old creep manager of a cafe tried to propose to my friend before we left for college. We had just turned 18 that summer.

Sorry you didn't get to have any summer fun

This is a ridiculous response. I agree -and experienced- what the PP described. In the service industry, there is a LOT of sexual harassment, hooking up, drinking with colleagues. I was harassed by adult men on numerous occasions, even as a young teen.

I'm all for jobs but let's not pretend this doesn't exist. And pretend how hard it is for teens to get summer jobs (outside of lifeguarding and camps). I know lots of young people who were unable to get jobs. Mine did but quit after the inflexibility of schedule (which they said the opposite) and then had an UNPAID internship for a few weeks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We experienced the exact same thing last summer with our DD.

Hugs.

Try to take the high road, to the extent possible. And do yoga and deep breathing. IMHO, if you push back too much, she could really rebel. It feels wrong to have to give in to entitlement though. Our family's quality of life greatly improved once our DD went off to college, because of DD's entitled attitude.

It's not "push back too much" vs "give in to entitlement." It's creating reasonable boundaries that lay the foundation for a healthy relationship with your adult child. If you don't do this you're just kicking the can down the road and it can escalate in ways that aren't good for anyone and your family will come to dread (or at least have ambivalence about) all their breaks back home. I have a kid out of college now and lots of parent friends with college students--I've seen the outcomes from parents of "good kids" (e.g., got good grades, worked, didn't get into much trouble in high school, generally nice people) who sort of gave in to this shift in behavior, turned a blind eye and tiptoed around often because they too are freaked out about their kid leaving home/the change in the relationship. Some lucked out and their kid matured and became more okay, others didn't and problems escalated in college and then on breaks. But all still feel varying degrees of frustration that linger on for years that their "kid" has all the rights of an adult--but doesn't contribute to/isn't respectful/sensitive towards the household that is supporting them. This continues for the many who live at home after college for a few years and are earning full time wages. It can also create long-lasting stress on sibling relationships--or impact sibling behavior negatively too.
Have the conversation now.

My kid didn't act out that much the summer before college, but still enough where we just had a good talk or three about how our roles were changing and so we need to figure out what is reasonable to expect and allow. This laid the groundwork for a conversation to stem the issue that most parents experience during breaks where college kids come home and are so used to late hours, giving no notice where they are and then want to keep doing that in their family home where it's disruptive to their parents who then worry or have disrupted sleep and to the younger siblings who are on a different schedule/set of rules. It was easier to figure out what will work for everyone, whereas some frustrated parents who didn't deal with it earlier still felt like, "I miss them so much, they're here such a short time, I don't want them to not like being home etc" that they kick the can down the road again.

Yoga and deep breathing are fine if they set you up to have these conversations in a reasonable, respectful way--not if they just help you glaze over and not deal with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An allowance? She’s 18. My kids stopped getting an allowance when they got their first jobs. Where did she work this summer? My kid works and pays for his own gas, insurance, and for all of his own fun stuff.

Why do people act like a summer job is some magic bullet which teens humble and grateful? If anything, it makes them less accountable, gives them chances to duck off, make excuses, claim to be too tired, too busy, and the money in their pocket makes them feel like they can tell you to buzz off because they have their own money now and don't need to pretend to be nice for a $50 or $100 Venmo transfer.

you sound absolutely nuts …

I grew up middle class -- everyone from the class president to total screw ups and drug addicts had summer jobs. A high school kid with summer job reveals absolutely nothing about character, maturity, or ambition.

Perhaps. But trying to keep an 18 year old from getting a job the summer before they go to college so you can control them is all kinds of weird and wrong

DP: I didn't read it as them wanting to keep them from getting a job, rather not to romanticize the effects of having a job as this sort of panacea for jerkiness.

They literally said that if your teen has their own money you can’t control them with money.

[Anonymous]

You reap what you sow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are living this right now as well.
Rules we have put in place.
If she can't pick up sibling such that I need to do it, there is no using the car that day.
If clothes are not put away, we do not "give back" clean clothes that somehow found the way into the hall hamper.
We sat down and spoke about financial expectations - my DD decided not to work this summer - fine - we are not providing spending $ beyond the small allowance that she has always had. Not giving money for gifts for friends birthday gifts, starbucks habit etc.
When she decided not to get a job, I wrote on a piece of paper the agreement and she signed it. Is is taped up on the wall so we are all on the same page.

She has a job at the country club and saves every cent. She has a lot of money for her age in the bank. And she constantly picks up shifts to make more money. It's also a convenient excuse for everything. I can't do ___, gotta work. Sorry I didn't do ___, so tired from work.

If we consider punishing her, we get guilt tripped that she had good grades and has a job and we don't know how lucky we are. Other parents often tell us this. Can't win.

She kind of has a point. Your OP painted her as a lazy kid who expects to be waited on hand and foot. But she clearly has ambition and work ethic. I would try picking my battles. Ignore the messy room and let her roommate fight that battle with her if she doesn't change her habits by the fall. Stop making her pick up her siblings, especially if she's worked a double shift that day. They're your kids, not hers. Don't take it personally when she cops an attitude. Do these things and I'd bet a large sum that she lightens up as well.

And for God's sake take Life360 off her phone before she goes to college.

Being a country club lifeguard who sunbaths and socializes all day or cart girl driving around serving drinks to old rich guys for $20 tips demonstrates a high degree of ambition and work ethic?

Just wait until some old rich guy asks her to be his Sugar Baby…

You are aware that rich guys who want sugar babies know not to prey on UMC+ girls, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That "soiling the nest" is a known, common phenomenon doesn't mean that you don't still parent in response to it. Knowing about the phenomenon helps give you a heads up to anticipate it and do things like the PP does like make contracts, have consequences. Also knowing that a lot of teens do this may help you not take it personally. But it's a disservice to yourself, your teen and the rest of the family to put up with this kind of behavior.

This. People talk about it so you are ready to deal with not, not so you tolerate it without consequences.