Practical differences between AP and IB in FCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the PP with an IB kid at a poorly regarded school. Not only is she getting a good education, her school's demographics do, in fact, give her an advantage in college admissions, beyond IB. For example, there were significantly more graduating seniors accepted to UVA this year at her school than at higher SES schools, where the fight for just a few spots is super competitive.

I'm not saying IB is all that, or a good fit for everyone, particularly those who struggle with writing. But there are certain types of students who can benefit tremendously from the program. And the fact that IB is typically offered in lower SES schools means that those who thrive in the program have an easier route to top colleges and universities, where they arrive prepared.

The top AP schools get significantly more kids into UVA

If that is true it is once again correlation not causation.

and the kids are better prepared because they’ve spent years with a stronger peer group.

You don't know enough about the "peer groups" to say which is stronger, you're just making things up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IB is geared towards earning an “IB diploma,” whereas AP is more a la carte.

To get an IB diploma you have to take courses in different subject areas, akin to college distribution requirements. You take the AP courses that interest you.

Because of the relatively small percentage of students at IB schools in FCPS who pursue an IB diploma, they now emphasize that you can also take IB courses a la carte. That is true, but it’s not the original purpose of IB.

IB courses tend to be more writing-heavy but also to cover less material. AP courses tend to be more like introductory college “survey” courses. They cover a wider range of material, and only some AP courses are writing-intensive.

AP courses are year-long courses or in a few cases semester courses, whereas IB courses are one or in some cases two years long.

FCPS primarily installed IB courses at lower performing high schools to try to create a “school-within-a-school” environment. Most of the higher performing schools in FCPS are AP schools where most kids take multiple AP courses.

Because AP courses are a la carte and there are no distribution requirements, it is easier to take more STEM courses at AP schools.

IB courses are designed by an organization (the IBO) based in Geneva, whereas AP courses are designed by the College Board, which is based in the United States. The IBO touts turning IB students into “global citizens,” whereas the College Board primarily touts that AP courses are good college prep.

Historically, American universities were more likely to give college credits for AP courses than for IB courses, but now most schools recognize AP and IB test scores equally (or in some cases not at all).

Good summary.

IB HL courses are comparable with AP, although in science and math they are not as good and they take two years compared to one year for AP. SL are just like honors high school classes so they are inferior to AP.

If IB is not supplemented with AP the schedule will be weaker having only 3 HL in two years. It’s very common for AP students to have 6+ AP in the last two years of high school.

I find it odd when people say AP teches to the test given the insane amount of testing and assessments in the IB program. There’s less testing and more freedom for the teacher to structure the class as they see fit in AP.

Much of the IB testing was essays, so harder to teach to the test, also oral exams for languages which I don't think happens for AP.

My AP kid will end up taking multivariable and physics BC as a senior. Nothing at our local IB school is comparable- most years they can't even get together enough students to offer HL math

My kid at an IB school is taking multivariable and linear algebra next year and three HL courses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the PP with an IB kid at a poorly regarded school. Not only is she getting a good education, her school's demographics do, in fact, give her an advantage in college admissions, beyond IB. For example, there were significantly more graduating seniors accepted to UVA this year at her school than at higher SES schools, where the fight for just a few spots is super competitive.

I'm not saying IB is all that, or a good fit for everyone, particularly those who struggle with writing. But there are certain types of students who can benefit tremendously from the program. And the fact that IB is typically offered in lower SES schools means that those who thrive in the program have an easier route to top colleges and universities, where they arrive prepared.

The top AP schools get significantly more kids into UVA

If that is true it is once again correlation not causation.

and the kids are better prepared because they’ve spent years with a stronger peer group.

You don't know enough about the "peer groups" to say which is stronger, you're just making things up.

It’s objectively clear which schools have stronger peer groups. It’s not the IB schools.

IB schools in FCPS are frequently under-enrolled, under-performing, and troubled. For example, you can read about the litany of complaints raised to Justice’s new principal this week by unhappy parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IB is geared towards earning an “IB diploma,” whereas AP is more a la carte.

To get an IB diploma you have to take courses in different subject areas, akin to college distribution requirements. You take the AP courses that interest you.

Because of the relatively small percentage of students at IB schools in FCPS who pursue an IB diploma, they now emphasize that you can also take IB courses a la carte. That is true, but it’s not the original purpose of IB.

IB courses tend to be more writing-heavy but also to cover less material. AP courses tend to be more like introductory college “survey” courses. They cover a wider range of material, and only some AP courses are writing-intensive.

AP courses are year-long courses or in a few cases semester courses, whereas IB courses are one or in some cases two years long.

FCPS primarily installed IB courses at lower performing high schools to try to create a “school-within-a-school” environment. Most of the higher performing schools in FCPS are AP schools where most kids take multiple AP courses.

Because AP courses are a la carte and there are no distribution requirements, it is easier to take more STEM courses at AP schools.

IB courses are designed by an organization (the IBO) based in Geneva, whereas AP courses are designed by the College Board, which is based in the United States. The IBO touts turning IB students into “global citizens,” whereas the College Board primarily touts that AP courses are good college prep.

Historically, American universities were more likely to give college credits for AP courses than for IB courses, but now most schools recognize AP and IB test scores equally (or in some cases not at all).

Good summary.

IB HL courses are comparable with AP, although in science and math they are not as good and they take two years compared to one year for AP. SL are just like honors high school classes so they are inferior to AP.

If IB is not supplemented with AP the schedule will be weaker having only 3 HL in two years. It’s very common for AP students to have 6+ AP in the last two years of high school.

I find it odd when people say AP teches to the test given the insane amount of testing and assessments in the IB program. There’s less testing and more freedom for the teacher to structure the class as they see fit in AP.

Much of the IB testing was essays, so harder to teach to the test, also oral exams for languages which I don't think happens for AP.

My AP kid will end up taking multivariable and physics BC as a senior. Nothing at our local IB school is comparable- most years they can't even get together enough students to offer HL math

+1. The advanced courses at AP schools are more varied and geared to a higher achieving cohort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The poster calling people nitwits and telling them to do better in one sentence responses is annoying. I will ask Jeff to remove your posts if you continue to respond in that manner.

Tattletale strikes again

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the PP with an IB kid at a poorly regarded school. Not only is she getting a good education, her school's demographics do, in fact, give her an advantage in college admissions, beyond IB. For example, there were significantly more graduating seniors accepted to UVA this year at her school than at higher SES schools, where the fight for just a few spots is super competitive.

I'm not saying IB is all that, or a good fit for everyone, particularly those who struggle with writing. But there are certain types of students who can benefit tremendously from the program. And the fact that IB is typically offered in lower SES schools means that those who thrive in the program have an easier route to top colleges and universities, where they arrive prepared.

The top AP schools get significantly more kids into UVA and the kids are better prepared because they’ve spent years with a stronger peer group.

Can you break down for us what a “stronger peer group” means? So like my kid is in AAP in MS but her MS splits into different high schools…AP and IB. Where they go is determined by address. Are the AAP IB kids all of a sudden going to not be academically oriented? I’m trying to follow your logic. Unless strong peer group is just code for less poor and/or brown kids?

[Anonymous]

So the strongest argument in favor of IB is that it’s so unappealing that you can assume there will be less competition for slots at some state schools coming from an IB school? No thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So the strongest argument in favor of IB is that it’s so unappealing that you can assume there will be less competition for slots at some state schools coming from an IB school? No thanks.

Yes PP. That is the take away from this entire discussion. Less competition (due to IB not SES of school…like Herndon—is that more competitive bc of AP?). IB is just terrible. So unappealing. Unsophisticated parents. Bad peers. I guess admission officers at UVA and WM (ask them at WM what they think of the horrid IB program!) have to take students from these crappy IB schools to fill their “slots” per schools (bc that’s a thing).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the PP with an IB kid at a poorly regarded school. Not only is she getting a good education, her school's demographics do, in fact, give her an advantage in college admissions, beyond IB. For example, there were significantly more graduating seniors accepted to UVA this year at her school than at higher SES schools, where the fight for just a few spots is super competitive.

I'm not saying IB is all that, or a good fit for everyone, particularly those who struggle with writing. But there are certain types of students who can benefit tremendously from the program. And the fact that IB is typically offered in lower SES schools means that those who thrive in the program have an easier route to top colleges and universities, where they arrive prepared.

The top AP schools get significantly more kids into UVA and the kids are better prepared because they’ve spent years with a stronger peer group.

Can you break down for us what a “stronger peer group” means? So like my kid is in AAP in MS but her MS splits into different high schools…AP and IB. Where they go is determined by address. Are the AAP IB kids all of a sudden going to not be academically oriented? I’m trying to follow your logic. Unless strong peer group is just code for less poor and/or brown kids?

What schools are you talking about? Usually you have a choice, the strong kids are more likely to go for AP than IB.

No need to gratuitously accuse people of racism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the strongest argument in favor of IB is that it’s so unappealing that you can assume there will be less competition for slots at some state schools coming from an IB school? No thanks.

Yes PP. That is the take away from this entire discussion. Less competition (due to IB not SES of school…like Herndon—is that more competitive bc of AP?). IB is just terrible. So unappealing. Unsophisticated parents. Bad peers. I guess admission officers at UVA and WM (ask them at WM what they think of the horrid IB program!) have to take students from these crappy IB schools to fill their “slots” per schools (bc that’s a thing).

What about being a critical thinking global citizen with problem solving skills? Now that’s gonna get you into UVA, but why settle? I’m sure Harvard needs to fill some slots too.

[Anonymous]

In practical terms one can compare the course load for the different options for 11th and 12th grades. Hypothetical example.

IB:
HL Math, HL English, HL Physics
SL Spanish, SL History, SL Art
Plus the fluff ToK, CAS, EE

AP
Math: Calculus BC, Statistics
English: Language, Literature
Science: Physics C, Chemistry
Social sciences: USH, EH, or other choices
Foreign language: any AP would satisfy major req.
Whatever electives.

It’s quite clear which one is more rigorous, it’s not even close.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the PP with an IB kid at a poorly regarded school. Not only is she getting a good education, her school's demographics do, in fact, give her an advantage in college admissions, beyond IB. For example, there were significantly more graduating seniors accepted to UVA this year at her school than at higher SES schools, where the fight for just a few spots is super competitive.

I'm not saying IB is all that, or a good fit for everyone, particularly those who struggle with writing. But there are certain types of students who can benefit tremendously from the program. And the fact that IB is typically offered in lower SES schools means that those who thrive in the program have an easier route to top colleges and universities, where they arrive prepared.

The top AP schools get significantly more kids into UVA and the kids are better prepared because they’ve spent years with a stronger peer group.

Can you break down for us what a “stronger peer group” means? So like my kid is in AAP in MS but her MS splits into different high schools…AP and IB. Where they go is determined by address. Are the AAP IB kids all of a sudden going to not be academically oriented? I’m trying to follow your logic. Unless strong peer group is just code for less poor and/or brown kids?

What schools are you talking about? Usually you have a choice, the strong kids are more likely to go for AP than IB.

No need to gratuitously accuse people of racism.

The strong kids can’t just pick whatever school they want, correct? The AP option for my kids is much weaker than the IB one unless they decide they want to take a random language.

[Anonymous]

It’s important to remember this is the FCPS forum. In Fairfax, IB schools are almost always the weaker schools. Even the top IB schools are usually near superior AP options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the strongest argument in favor of IB is that it’s so unappealing that you can assume there will be less competition for slots at some state schools coming from an IB school? No thanks.

Yes PP. That is the take away from this entire discussion. Less competition (due to IB not SES of school…like Herndon—is that more competitive bc of AP?). IB is just terrible. So unappealing. Unsophisticated parents. Bad peers. I guess admission officers at UVA and WM (ask them at WM what they think of the horrid IB program!) have to take students from these crappy IB schools to fill their “slots” per schools (bc that’s a thing).

What about being a critical thinking global citizen with problem solving skills? Now that’s gonna get you into UVA, but why settle? I’m sure Harvard needs to fill some slots too.

Why do think IB kids don’t have problem solving skills? I think it’s fine if people prefer AP and pick that for their kids. I also agree that IB should be offered only at a couple of FCPS schools. What remains a mystery to me is the vitriol directed at IB by certain people on this forum. And by the language used, it seems like it’s always the same couple of people. It’s almost comical at this point. Part of having “critical thinking” is ability to understand why someone might have different opinions/choices. It’s NOT thinking in black/white terms. Having to constantly disparage someone’s opinion to elevate your argument is not critical thinking. Btw-I’m not an IB is superior proponent. I think both programs have pros/cons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:IB is very rigorous with tons of writing, better for getting into a college, AP is better for higher number of college credits earned.

For getting into college IB is absolutely better.