Question about Messianic Judaism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought Messianic Judaism was a front put up by evangelical Christians to convert Jews.

I would prefer either traditional Judaism or traditional Christianity over this purported middle road.

It is. Which is deeply offensive. Every one of those Jews for Jesus gives a middle finger to our (sometimes shared) ancestors who resisted conversion to keep Judaism alive in an unbroken chain across millenia.

And here we get to the nub of the matter. Xenophobia.

Actually it’s anti-semitism, but you know that.

Actually everything is anti-semitism. Even your quote right above, where you oppose Jews for Jesus, because that must be anti-semitism too, apparently.

The part that reads (to me) like antisemitism is the part where Jews are accused of xenophobia because we don't want Christians pretending they're Jewish, and that somehow that's the "nub" of the issue with Jews for Jesus. If a synagogue declared tomorrow that it's the real Catholic Church and their rabbi was the pope, would Catholics who objected to that be the problem? Or would the synagogue doing it be?

Trying to imagine what would happen if a group of “Muslims for Jesus” went to Afghanistan making statues of Mohammed for their “mosques.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not true. They feel extra persecuted because they’re Christians who claim they’re Jewish and they don’t understand why Jews find that obnoxious and offensive.

This sounds anti-semitic. Who gets to decide who is Jewish?

Well... Jewish law has a lot of discussion about this actually. Jews get to decide who is Jewish, and Christian missionary groups that try to offer "Messianic Judaism" as a culturally sensitive way to become Christian are, in fact, antisemitic.

The Jews they are able to convert to this everything bagel-scented Christianity had weak Jewish affiliations to begin with or have psychological problems.

They see themselves as Jewish, so if you agree that Jews get to decide, then they’ve decided they’re Jews, right? You repeatedly trying to just write them off as psychologically disturbed says more about you than about them.

Jews have rules and courts where rules get decided. People don't get to just declare themselves Jewish. By definition, people who accept Jesus as the Messiah are Christians, and Christians are, by definition, not Jews.

NP. I'm curious, where and who are these courts? I can see a problem with a Messianic Jew showing up at a synagogue and proclaiming himself Jewish in front of the presiding rabbi. But control over the designation would seem to be in the hands of a group that calls itself Jewish, no? There's no Jewish pope, is there? Is there a structure like bishops?

Also, Jesus, his 12 disciples, Paul, and many others considered themselves Jewish even as they promulgated Jesus' message.

Anyone can call themselves Jewish because unlike other religions, Jews are not going to try to kill them for blasphemy. But everyone who is acting in good faith knows that someone who professes that Jesus is the Messiah is … Christian, not Jewish.

Again, who gets to decide? Who are these "everyone who is acting in good faith" who decide that some people are Jewish and others aren't?

Who gets to decide? Jews. There are rabbinical courts in Jewish communities that oversee/decide on matters of halacha (including conversions to Judaism, marriage and divorce, etc). While someone's Jewishness can't be revoked or invalidated, a Jew who rejects Judaism is an apostate. While they would be welcome to return to Judaism someday, nobody in the Jewish community is entertaining the idea that an apostate is still part of the Jewish community while they're over on the side worshipping Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

In the case of Messianic "rabbis," they shouldn't call themselves that without being ordained by a Jewish institution - there are many rabbinical schools and rabbinic councils. Ordination can be revoked for a bunch of reasons (depending on the rules of the specific council/body), including proselytizing about Jesus. If a Messianic "rabbi" was ordained outside of a Jewish movement (and no Jewish movement is going to ordain someone who professes faith in Jesus as the messiah), then they shouldn't be using the title "rabbi." That would be like me going to art school and then putting M.D. on the end of my name and trying to practice medicine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not true. They feel extra persecuted because they’re Christians who claim they’re Jewish and they don’t understand why Jews find that obnoxious and offensive.

This sounds anti-semitic. Who gets to decide who is Jewish?

Well... Jewish law has a lot of discussion about this actually. Jews get to decide who is Jewish, and Christian missionary groups that try to offer "Messianic Judaism" as a culturally sensitive way to become Christian are, in fact, antisemitic.

The Jews they are able to convert to this everything bagel-scented Christianity had weak Jewish affiliations to begin with or have psychological problems.

They see themselves as Jewish, so if you agree that Jews get to decide, then they’ve decided they’re Jews, right? You repeatedly trying to just write them off as psychologically disturbed says more about you than about them.

Jews have rules and courts where rules get decided. People don't get to just declare themselves Jewish. By definition, people who accept Jesus as the Messiah are Christians, and Christians are, by definition, not Jews.

NP. I'm curious, where and who are these courts? I can see a problem with a Messianic Jew showing up at a synagogue and proclaiming himself Jewish in front of the presiding rabbi. But control over the designation would seem to be in the hands of a group that calls itself Jewish, no? There's no Jewish pope, is there? Is there a structure like bishops?

Also, Jesus, his 12 disciples, Paul, and many others considered themselves Jewish even as they promulgated Jesus' message.

Anyone can call themselves Jewish because unlike other religions, Jews are not going to try to kill them for blasphemy. But everyone who is acting in good faith knows that someone who professes that Jesus is the Messiah is … Christian, not Jewish.

Again, who gets to decide? Who are these "everyone who is acting in good faith" who decide that some people are Jewish and others aren't?

Who gets to decide? Jews. There are rabbinical courts in Jewish communities that oversee/decide on matters of halacha (including conversions to Judaism, marriage and divorce, etc). While someone's Jewishness can't be revoked or invalidated, a Jew who rejects Judaism is an apostate. While they would be welcome to return to Judaism someday, nobody in the Jewish community is entertaining the idea that an apostate is still part of the Jewish community while they're over on the side worshipping Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

In the case of Messianic "rabbis," they shouldn't call themselves that without being ordained by a Jewish institution - there are many rabbinical schools and rabbinic councils. Ordination can be revoked for a bunch of reasons (depending on the rules of the specific council/body), including proselytizing about Jesus. If a Messianic "rabbi" was ordained outside of a Jewish movement (and no Jewish movement is going to ordain someone who professes faith in Jesus as the messiah), then they shouldn't be using the title "rabbi." That would be like me going to art school and then putting M.D. on the end of my name and trying to practice medicine.

Maybe it’s time for all religions to modernize and get with the times. The ancient rules and traditions from thousands of years ago don’t necessarily apply or fit in our modern culture and world. Especially since it seems like a lot of Jewish people are atheists and don’t even believe in God, why all the rules?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not true. They feel extra persecuted because they’re Christians who claim they’re Jewish and they don’t understand why Jews find that obnoxious and offensive.

This sounds anti-semitic. Who gets to decide who is Jewish?

Well... Jewish law has a lot of discussion about this actually. Jews get to decide who is Jewish, and Christian missionary groups that try to offer "Messianic Judaism" as a culturally sensitive way to become Christian are, in fact, antisemitic.

The Jews they are able to convert to this everything bagel-scented Christianity had weak Jewish affiliations to begin with or have psychological problems.

They see themselves as Jewish, so if you agree that Jews get to decide, then they’ve decided they’re Jews, right? You repeatedly trying to just write them off as psychologically disturbed says more about you than about them.

Jews have rules and courts where rules get decided. People don't get to just declare themselves Jewish. By definition, people who accept Jesus as the Messiah are Christians, and Christians are, by definition, not Jews.

NP. I'm curious, where and who are these courts? I can see a problem with a Messianic Jew showing up at a synagogue and proclaiming himself Jewish in front of the presiding rabbi. But control over the designation would seem to be in the hands of a group that calls itself Jewish, no? There's no Jewish pope, is there? Is there a structure like bishops?

Also, Jesus, his 12 disciples, Paul, and many others considered themselves Jewish even as they promulgated Jesus' message.

Anyone can call themselves Jewish because unlike other religions, Jews are not going to try to kill them for blasphemy. But everyone who is acting in good faith knows that someone who professes that Jesus is the Messiah is … Christian, not Jewish.

Again, who gets to decide? Who are these "everyone who is acting in good faith" who decide that some people are Jewish and others aren't?

Who gets to decide? Jews. There are rabbinical courts in Jewish communities that oversee/decide on matters of halacha (including conversions to Judaism, marriage and divorce, etc). While someone's Jewishness can't be revoked or invalidated, a Jew who rejects Judaism is an apostate. While they would be welcome to return to Judaism someday, nobody in the Jewish community is entertaining the idea that an apostate is still part of the Jewish community while they're over on the side worshipping Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

In the case of Messianic "rabbis," they shouldn't call themselves that without being ordained by a Jewish institution - there are many rabbinical schools and rabbinic councils. Ordination can be revoked for a bunch of reasons (depending on the rules of the specific council/body), including proselytizing about Jesus. If a Messianic "rabbi" was ordained outside of a Jewish movement (and no Jewish movement is going to ordain someone who professes faith in Jesus as the messiah), then they shouldn't be using the title "rabbi." That would be like me going to art school and then putting M.D. on the end of my name and trying to practice medicine.

Maybe it’s time for all religions to modernize and get with the times. The ancient rules and traditions from thousands of years ago don’t necessarily apply or fit in our modern culture and world. Especially since it seems like a lot of Jewish people are atheists and don’t even believe in God, why all the rules?

In what ways should Judaism (and "all religions") modernize? I'm a Conservative (denomination, not politics) Jew living without much problem in the modern, secular US. If your vision of "modernization" really just means throwing out traditions and basic tenets of our faith (like the fact that worshipping Jesus isn't compatible with Jewish theology), then I wholeheartedly reject that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not true. They feel extra persecuted because they’re Christians who claim they’re Jewish and they don’t understand why Jews find that obnoxious and offensive.

This sounds anti-semitic. Who gets to decide who is Jewish?

Well... Jewish law has a lot of discussion about this actually. Jews get to decide who is Jewish, and Christian missionary groups that try to offer "Messianic Judaism" as a culturally sensitive way to become Christian are, in fact, antisemitic.

The Jews they are able to convert to this everything bagel-scented Christianity had weak Jewish affiliations to begin with or have psychological problems.

They see themselves as Jewish, so if you agree that Jews get to decide, then they’ve decided they’re Jews, right? You repeatedly trying to just write them off as psychologically disturbed says more about you than about them.

Jews have rules and courts where rules get decided. People don't get to just declare themselves Jewish. By definition, people who accept Jesus as the Messiah are Christians, and Christians are, by definition, not Jews.

NP. I'm curious, where and who are these courts? I can see a problem with a Messianic Jew showing up at a synagogue and proclaiming himself Jewish in front of the presiding rabbi. But control over the designation would seem to be in the hands of a group that calls itself Jewish, no? There's no Jewish pope, is there? Is there a structure like bishops?

Also, Jesus, his 12 disciples, Paul, and many others considered themselves Jewish even as they promulgated Jesus' message.

Anyone can call themselves Jewish because unlike other religions, Jews are not going to try to kill them for blasphemy. But everyone who is acting in good faith knows that someone who professes that Jesus is the Messiah is … Christian, not Jewish.

Again, who gets to decide? Who are these "everyone who is acting in good faith" who decide that some people are Jewish and others aren't?

Who gets to decide? Jews. There are rabbinical courts in Jewish communities that oversee/decide on matters of halacha (including conversions to Judaism, marriage and divorce, etc). While someone's Jewishness can't be revoked or invalidated, a Jew who rejects Judaism is an apostate. While they would be welcome to return to Judaism someday, nobody in the Jewish community is entertaining the idea that an apostate is still part of the Jewish community while they're over on the side worshipping Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

In the case of Messianic "rabbis," they shouldn't call themselves that without being ordained by a Jewish institution - there are many rabbinical schools and rabbinic councils. Ordination can be revoked for a bunch of reasons (depending on the rules of the specific council/body), including proselytizing about Jesus. If a Messianic "rabbi" was ordained outside of a Jewish movement (and no Jewish movement is going to ordain someone who professes faith in Jesus as the messiah), then they shouldn't be using the title "rabbi." That would be like me going to art school and then putting M.D. on the end of my name and trying to practice medicine.

Maybe it’s time for all religions to modernize and get with the times. The ancient rules and traditions from thousands of years ago don’t necessarily apply or fit in our modern culture and world. Especially since it seems like a lot of Jewish people are atheists and don’t even believe in God, why all the rules?

In what ways should Judaism (and "all religions") modernize? I'm a Conservative (denomination, not politics) Jew living without much problem in the modern, secular US. If your vision of "modernization" really just means throwing out traditions and basic tenets of our faith (like the fact that worshipping Jesus isn't compatible with Jewish theology), then I wholeheartedly reject that.

All religions are based on life from hundreds or thousands of years ago. Why can’t they change in ways that fit our modern culture? It doesn’t make sense to live in today’s world based on rules from long ago. Every institution has to change with the times and modernize. It’s happening in many religions now and it’s long overdue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not true. They feel extra persecuted because they’re Christians who claim they’re Jewish and they don’t understand why Jews find that obnoxious and offensive.

This sounds anti-semitic. Who gets to decide who is Jewish?

Well... Jewish law has a lot of discussion about this actually. Jews get to decide who is Jewish, and Christian missionary groups that try to offer "Messianic Judaism" as a culturally sensitive way to become Christian are, in fact, antisemitic.

The Jews they are able to convert to this everything bagel-scented Christianity had weak Jewish affiliations to begin with or have psychological problems.

They see themselves as Jewish, so if you agree that Jews get to decide, then they’ve decided they’re Jews, right? You repeatedly trying to just write them off as psychologically disturbed says more about you than about them.

Jews have rules and courts where rules get decided. People don't get to just declare themselves Jewish. By definition, people who accept Jesus as the Messiah are Christians, and Christians are, by definition, not Jews.

NP. I'm curious, where and who are these courts? I can see a problem with a Messianic Jew showing up at a synagogue and proclaiming himself Jewish in front of the presiding rabbi. But control over the designation would seem to be in the hands of a group that calls itself Jewish, no? There's no Jewish pope, is there? Is there a structure like bishops?

Also, Jesus, his 12 disciples, Paul, and many others considered themselves Jewish even as they promulgated Jesus' message.

Anyone can call themselves Jewish because unlike other religions, Jews are not going to try to kill them for blasphemy. But everyone who is acting in good faith knows that someone who professes that Jesus is the Messiah is … Christian, not Jewish.

Again, who gets to decide? Who are these "everyone who is acting in good faith" who decide that some people are Jewish and others aren't?

Who gets to decide? Jews. There are rabbinical courts in Jewish communities that oversee/decide on matters of halacha (including conversions to Judaism, marriage and divorce, etc). While someone's Jewishness can't be revoked or invalidated, a Jew who rejects Judaism is an apostate. While they would be welcome to return to Judaism someday, nobody in the Jewish community is entertaining the idea that an apostate is still part of the Jewish community while they're over on the side worshipping Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

In the case of Messianic "rabbis," they shouldn't call themselves that without being ordained by a Jewish institution - there are many rabbinical schools and rabbinic councils. Ordination can be revoked for a bunch of reasons (depending on the rules of the specific council/body), including proselytizing about Jesus. If a Messianic "rabbi" was ordained outside of a Jewish movement (and no Jewish movement is going to ordain someone who professes faith in Jesus as the messiah), then they shouldn't be using the title "rabbi." That would be like me going to art school and then putting M.D. on the end of my name and trying to practice medicine.

Maybe it’s time for all religions to modernize and get with the times. The ancient rules and traditions from thousands of years ago don’t necessarily apply or fit in our modern culture and world. Especially since it seems like a lot of Jewish people are atheists and don’t even believe in God, why all the rules?

Jews have always been part of a counterculture in our exile. Most of us are fine with that. The ones who are not and feel the need for higher degrees of assimilation will no longer be Jewish in a generation or two.

The rules keep our civilization alive from generation to generation across millenia of dispersion around the world. That's literally our charge: from generation to generation. You won't understand, but we have a completely different conception of time, memory, and community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not true. They feel extra persecuted because they’re Christians who claim they’re Jewish and they don’t understand why Jews find that obnoxious and offensive.

This sounds anti-semitic. Who gets to decide who is Jewish?

Well... Jewish law has a lot of discussion about this actually. Jews get to decide who is Jewish, and Christian missionary groups that try to offer "Messianic Judaism" as a culturally sensitive way to become Christian are, in fact, antisemitic.

The Jews they are able to convert to this everything bagel-scented Christianity had weak Jewish affiliations to begin with or have psychological problems.

They see themselves as Jewish, so if you agree that Jews get to decide, then they’ve decided they’re Jews, right? You repeatedly trying to just write them off as psychologically disturbed says more about you than about them.

Jews have rules and courts where rules get decided. People don't get to just declare themselves Jewish. By definition, people who accept Jesus as the Messiah are Christians, and Christians are, by definition, not Jews.

NP. I'm curious, where and who are these courts? I can see a problem with a Messianic Jew showing up at a synagogue and proclaiming himself Jewish in front of the presiding rabbi. But control over the designation would seem to be in the hands of a group that calls itself Jewish, no? There's no Jewish pope, is there? Is there a structure like bishops?

Also, Jesus, his 12 disciples, Paul, and many others considered themselves Jewish even as they promulgated Jesus' message.

Anyone can call themselves Jewish because unlike other religions, Jews are not going to try to kill them for blasphemy. But everyone who is acting in good faith knows that someone who professes that Jesus is the Messiah is … Christian, not Jewish.

Again, who gets to decide? Who are these "everyone who is acting in good faith" who decide that some people are Jewish and others aren't?

Who gets to decide? Jews. There are rabbinical courts in Jewish communities that oversee/decide on matters of halacha (including conversions to Judaism, marriage and divorce, etc). While someone's Jewishness can't be revoked or invalidated, a Jew who rejects Judaism is an apostate. While they would be welcome to return to Judaism someday, nobody in the Jewish community is entertaining the idea that an apostate is still part of the Jewish community while they're over on the side worshipping Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

In the case of Messianic "rabbis," they shouldn't call themselves that without being ordained by a Jewish institution - there are many rabbinical schools and rabbinic councils. Ordination can be revoked for a bunch of reasons (depending on the rules of the specific council/body), including proselytizing about Jesus. If a Messianic "rabbi" was ordained outside of a Jewish movement (and no Jewish movement is going to ordain someone who professes faith in Jesus as the messiah), then they shouldn't be using the title "rabbi." That would be like me going to art school and then putting M.D. on the end of my name and trying to practice medicine.

Maybe it’s time for all religions to modernize and get with the times. The ancient rules and traditions from thousands of years ago don’t necessarily apply or fit in our modern culture and world. Especially since it seems like a lot of Jewish people are atheists and don’t even believe in God, why all the rules?

Seriously?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not true. They feel extra persecuted because they’re Christians who claim they’re Jewish and they don’t understand why Jews find that obnoxious and offensive.

This sounds anti-semitic. Who gets to decide who is Jewish?

Well... Jewish law has a lot of discussion about this actually. Jews get to decide who is Jewish, and Christian missionary groups that try to offer "Messianic Judaism" as a culturally sensitive way to become Christian are, in fact, antisemitic.

The Jews they are able to convert to this everything bagel-scented Christianity had weak Jewish affiliations to begin with or have psychological problems.

They see themselves as Jewish, so if you agree that Jews get to decide, then they’ve decided they’re Jews, right? You repeatedly trying to just write them off as psychologically disturbed says more about you than about them.

Jews have rules and courts where rules get decided. People don't get to just declare themselves Jewish. By definition, people who accept Jesus as the Messiah are Christians, and Christians are, by definition, not Jews.

NP. I'm curious, where and who are these courts? I can see a problem with a Messianic Jew showing up at a synagogue and proclaiming himself Jewish in front of the presiding rabbi. But control over the designation would seem to be in the hands of a group that calls itself Jewish, no? There's no Jewish pope, is there? Is there a structure like bishops?

Also, Jesus, his 12 disciples, Paul, and many others considered themselves Jewish even as they promulgated Jesus' message.

Anyone can call themselves Jewish because unlike other religions, Jews are not going to try to kill them for blasphemy. But everyone who is acting in good faith knows that someone who professes that Jesus is the Messiah is … Christian, not Jewish.

Again, who gets to decide? Who are these "everyone who is acting in good faith" who decide that some people are Jewish and others aren't?

Who gets to decide? Jews. There are rabbinical courts in Jewish communities that oversee/decide on matters of halacha (including conversions to Judaism, marriage and divorce, etc). While someone's Jewishness can't be revoked or invalidated, a Jew who rejects Judaism is an apostate. While they would be welcome to return to Judaism someday, nobody in the Jewish community is entertaining the idea that an apostate is still part of the Jewish community while they're over on the side worshipping Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

In the case of Messianic "rabbis," they shouldn't call themselves that without being ordained by a Jewish institution - there are many rabbinical schools and rabbinic councils. Ordination can be revoked for a bunch of reasons (depending on the rules of the specific council/body), including proselytizing about Jesus. If a Messianic "rabbi" was ordained outside of a Jewish movement (and no Jewish movement is going to ordain someone who professes faith in Jesus as the messiah), then they shouldn't be using the title "rabbi." That would be like me going to art school and then putting M.D. on the end of my name and trying to practice medicine.

Maybe it’s time for all religions to modernize and get with the times. The ancient rules and traditions from thousands of years ago don’t necessarily apply or fit in our modern culture and world. Especially since it seems like a lot of Jewish people are atheists and don’t even believe in God, why all the rules?

In what ways should Judaism (and "all religions") modernize? I'm a Conservative (denomination, not politics) Jew living without much problem in the modern, secular US. If your vision of "modernization" really just means throwing out traditions and basic tenets of our faith (like the fact that worshipping Jesus isn't compatible with Jewish theology), then I wholeheartedly reject that.

All religions are based on life from hundreds or thousands of years ago. Why can’t they change in ways that fit our modern culture? It doesn’t make sense to live in today’s world based on rules from long ago. Every institution has to change with the times and modernize. It’s happening in many religions now and it’s long overdue.

So Jews have to modernize by believing in Jesus? gtfo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not true. They feel extra persecuted because they’re Christians who claim they’re Jewish and they don’t understand why Jews find that obnoxious and offensive.

This sounds anti-semitic. Who gets to decide who is Jewish?

Well... Jewish law has a lot of discussion about this actually. Jews get to decide who is Jewish, and Christian missionary groups that try to offer "Messianic Judaism" as a culturally sensitive way to become Christian are, in fact, antisemitic.

The Jews they are able to convert to this everything bagel-scented Christianity had weak Jewish affiliations to begin with or have psychological problems.

They see themselves as Jewish, so if you agree that Jews get to decide, then they’ve decided they’re Jews, right? You repeatedly trying to just write them off as psychologically disturbed says more about you than about them.

Jews have rules and courts where rules get decided. People don't get to just declare themselves Jewish. By definition, people who accept Jesus as the Messiah are Christians, and Christians are, by definition, not Jews.

NP. I'm curious, where and who are these courts? I can see a problem with a Messianic Jew showing up at a synagogue and proclaiming himself Jewish in front of the presiding rabbi. But control over the designation would seem to be in the hands of a group that calls itself Jewish, no? There's no Jewish pope, is there? Is there a structure like bishops?

Also, Jesus, his 12 disciples, Paul, and many others considered themselves Jewish even as they promulgated Jesus' message.

Anyone can call themselves Jewish because unlike other religions, Jews are not going to try to kill them for blasphemy. But everyone who is acting in good faith knows that someone who professes that Jesus is the Messiah is … Christian, not Jewish.

Again, who gets to decide? Who are these "everyone who is acting in good faith" who decide that some people are Jewish and others aren't?

Who gets to decide? Jews. There are rabbinical courts in Jewish communities that oversee/decide on matters of halacha (including conversions to Judaism, marriage and divorce, etc). While someone's Jewishness can't be revoked or invalidated, a Jew who rejects Judaism is an apostate. While they would be welcome to return to Judaism someday, nobody in the Jewish community is entertaining the idea that an apostate is still part of the Jewish community while they're over on the side worshipping Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

In the case of Messianic "rabbis," they shouldn't call themselves that without being ordained by a Jewish institution - there are many rabbinical schools and rabbinic councils. Ordination can be revoked for a bunch of reasons (depending on the rules of the specific council/body), including proselytizing about Jesus. If a Messianic "rabbi" was ordained outside of a Jewish movement (and no Jewish movement is going to ordain someone who professes faith in Jesus as the messiah), then they shouldn't be using the title "rabbi." That would be like me going to art school and then putting M.D. on the end of my name and trying to practice medicine.

Maybe it’s time for all religions to modernize and get with the times. The ancient rules and traditions from thousands of years ago don’t necessarily apply or fit in our modern culture and world. Especially since it seems like a lot of Jewish people are atheists and don’t even believe in God, why all the rules?

In what ways should Judaism (and "all religions") modernize? I'm a Conservative (denomination, not politics) Jew living without much problem in the modern, secular US. If your vision of "modernization" really just means throwing out traditions and basic tenets of our faith (like the fact that worshipping Jesus isn't compatible with Jewish theology), then I wholeheartedly reject that.

All religions are based on life from hundreds or thousands of years ago. Why can’t they change in ways that fit our modern culture? It doesn’t make sense to live in today’s world based on rules from long ago. Every institution has to change with the times and modernize. It’s happening in many religions now and it’s long overdue.

Again, what do you mean by "modernize?" How are institutions "changing with the times" in ways that somehow drop "rules from long ago" while retaining religious community? Or are you just advocating for everyone to become atheist?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not true. They feel extra persecuted because they’re Christians who claim they’re Jewish and they don’t understand why Jews find that obnoxious and offensive.

This sounds anti-semitic. Who gets to decide who is Jewish?

Well... Jewish law has a lot of discussion about this actually. Jews get to decide who is Jewish, and Christian missionary groups that try to offer "Messianic Judaism" as a culturally sensitive way to become Christian are, in fact, antisemitic.

The Jews they are able to convert to this everything bagel-scented Christianity had weak Jewish affiliations to begin with or have psychological problems.

They see themselves as Jewish, so if you agree that Jews get to decide, then they’ve decided they’re Jews, right? You repeatedly trying to just write them off as psychologically disturbed says more about you than about them.

Jews have rules and courts where rules get decided. People don't get to just declare themselves Jewish. By definition, people who accept Jesus as the Messiah are Christians, and Christians are, by definition, not Jews.

NP. I'm curious, where and who are these courts? I can see a problem with a Messianic Jew showing up at a synagogue and proclaiming himself Jewish in front of the presiding rabbi. But control over the designation would seem to be in the hands of a group that calls itself Jewish, no? There's no Jewish pope, is there? Is there a structure like bishops?

Also, Jesus, his 12 disciples, Paul, and many others considered themselves Jewish even as they promulgated Jesus' message.

Anyone can call themselves Jewish because unlike other religions, Jews are not going to try to kill them for blasphemy. But everyone who is acting in good faith knows that someone who professes that Jesus is the Messiah is … Christian, not Jewish.

Again, who gets to decide? Who are these "everyone who is acting in good faith" who decide that some people are Jewish and others aren't?

Who gets to decide? Jews. There are rabbinical courts in Jewish communities that oversee/decide on matters of halacha (including conversions to Judaism, marriage and divorce, etc). While someone's Jewishness can't be revoked or invalidated, a Jew who rejects Judaism is an apostate. While they would be welcome to return to Judaism someday, nobody in the Jewish community is entertaining the idea that an apostate is still part of the Jewish community while they're over on the side worshipping Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

In the case of Messianic "rabbis," they shouldn't call themselves that without being ordained by a Jewish institution - there are many rabbinical schools and rabbinic councils. Ordination can be revoked for a bunch of reasons (depending on the rules of the specific council/body), including proselytizing about Jesus. If a Messianic "rabbi" was ordained outside of a Jewish movement (and no Jewish movement is going to ordain someone who professes faith in Jesus as the messiah), then they shouldn't be using the title "rabbi." That would be like me going to art school and then putting M.D. on the end of my name and trying to practice medicine.

Maybe it’s time for all religions to modernize and get with the times. The ancient rules and traditions from thousands of years ago don’t necessarily apply or fit in our modern culture and world. Especially since it seems like a lot of Jewish people are atheists and don’t even believe in God, why all the rules?

Jews have always been part of a counterculture in our exile. Most of us are fine with that. The ones who are not and feel the need for higher degrees of assimilation will no longer be Jewish in a generation or two.

The rules keep our civilization alive from generation to generation across millenia of dispersion around the world. That's literally our charge: from generation to generation. You won't understand, but we have a completely different conception of time, memory, and community.

This is a strange thread. So Jewish people are different from all other people, and different rules apply to Jewish people vs all other people in the world?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not true. They feel extra persecuted because they’re Christians who claim they’re Jewish and they don’t understand why Jews find that obnoxious and offensive.

This sounds anti-semitic. Who gets to decide who is Jewish?

Well... Jewish law has a lot of discussion about this actually. Jews get to decide who is Jewish, and Christian missionary groups that try to offer "Messianic Judaism" as a culturally sensitive way to become Christian are, in fact, antisemitic.

The Jews they are able to convert to this everything bagel-scented Christianity had weak Jewish affiliations to begin with or have psychological problems.

They see themselves as Jewish, so if you agree that Jews get to decide, then they’ve decided they’re Jews, right? You repeatedly trying to just write them off as psychologically disturbed says more about you than about them.

Jews have rules and courts where rules get decided. People don't get to just declare themselves Jewish. By definition, people who accept Jesus as the Messiah are Christians, and Christians are, by definition, not Jews.

NP. I'm curious, where and who are these courts? I can see a problem with a Messianic Jew showing up at a synagogue and proclaiming himself Jewish in front of the presiding rabbi. But control over the designation would seem to be in the hands of a group that calls itself Jewish, no? There's no Jewish pope, is there? Is there a structure like bishops?

Also, Jesus, his 12 disciples, Paul, and many others considered themselves Jewish even as they promulgated Jesus' message.

Anyone can call themselves Jewish because unlike other religions, Jews are not going to try to kill them for blasphemy. But everyone who is acting in good faith knows that someone who professes that Jesus is the Messiah is … Christian, not Jewish.

Again, who gets to decide? Who are these "everyone who is acting in good faith" who decide that some people are Jewish and others aren't?

Who gets to decide? Jews. There are rabbinical courts in Jewish communities that oversee/decide on matters of halacha (including conversions to Judaism, marriage and divorce, etc). While someone's Jewishness can't be revoked or invalidated, a Jew who rejects Judaism is an apostate. While they would be welcome to return to Judaism someday, nobody in the Jewish community is entertaining the idea that an apostate is still part of the Jewish community while they're over on the side worshipping Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

In the case of Messianic "rabbis," they shouldn't call themselves that without being ordained by a Jewish institution - there are many rabbinical schools and rabbinic councils. Ordination can be revoked for a bunch of reasons (depending on the rules of the specific council/body), including proselytizing about Jesus. If a Messianic "rabbi" was ordained outside of a Jewish movement (and no Jewish movement is going to ordain someone who professes faith in Jesus as the messiah), then they shouldn't be using the title "rabbi." That would be like me going to art school and then putting M.D. on the end of my name and trying to practice medicine.

Maybe it’s time for all religions to modernize and get with the times. The ancient rules and traditions from thousands of years ago don’t necessarily apply or fit in our modern culture and world. Especially since it seems like a lot of Jewish people are atheists and don’t even believe in God, why all the rules?

In what ways should Judaism (and "all religions") modernize? I'm a Conservative (denomination, not politics) Jew living without much problem in the modern, secular US. If your vision of "modernization" really just means throwing out traditions and basic tenets of our faith (like the fact that worshipping Jesus isn't compatible with Jewish theology), then I wholeheartedly reject that.

All religions are based on life from hundreds or thousands of years ago. Why can’t they change in ways that fit our modern culture? It doesn’t make sense to live in today’s world based on rules from long ago. Every institution has to change with the times and modernize. It’s happening in many religions now and it’s long overdue.

Again, what do you mean by "modernize?" How are institutions "changing with the times" in ways that somehow drop "rules from long ago" while retaining religious community? Or are you just advocating for everyone to become atheist?

How can you expect to live in our modern and diverse world if you differentiate yourself from everyone so strongly based on an ancient religion? It seems many Jewish people don’t believe in God, anyway. More Jewish people are atheists than religious. It doesn’t even seem like most Jewish people care about the religious aspect of being Jewish, so why keep all the complex religious rules about who is allowed to be this or that? If an atheist, who doesn’t believe in God, can be Jewish, why can’t a person who believes in JC be Jewish? It seems like both should be fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not true. They feel extra persecuted because they’re Christians who claim they’re Jewish and they don’t understand why Jews find that obnoxious and offensive.

This sounds anti-semitic. Who gets to decide who is Jewish?

Well... Jewish law has a lot of discussion about this actually. Jews get to decide who is Jewish, and Christian missionary groups that try to offer "Messianic Judaism" as a culturally sensitive way to become Christian are, in fact, antisemitic.

The Jews they are able to convert to this everything bagel-scented Christianity had weak Jewish affiliations to begin with or have psychological problems.

They see themselves as Jewish, so if you agree that Jews get to decide, then they’ve decided they’re Jews, right? You repeatedly trying to just write them off as psychologically disturbed says more about you than about them.

Jews have rules and courts where rules get decided. People don't get to just declare themselves Jewish. By definition, people who accept Jesus as the Messiah are Christians, and Christians are, by definition, not Jews.

NP. I'm curious, where and who are these courts? I can see a problem with a Messianic Jew showing up at a synagogue and proclaiming himself Jewish in front of the presiding rabbi. But control over the designation would seem to be in the hands of a group that calls itself Jewish, no? There's no Jewish pope, is there? Is there a structure like bishops?

Also, Jesus, his 12 disciples, Paul, and many others considered themselves Jewish even as they promulgated Jesus' message.

Anyone can call themselves Jewish because unlike other religions, Jews are not going to try to kill them for blasphemy. But everyone who is acting in good faith knows that someone who professes that Jesus is the Messiah is … Christian, not Jewish.

Again, who gets to decide? Who are these "everyone who is acting in good faith" who decide that some people are Jewish and others aren't?

Who gets to decide? Jews. There are rabbinical courts in Jewish communities that oversee/decide on matters of halacha (including conversions to Judaism, marriage and divorce, etc). While someone's Jewishness can't be revoked or invalidated, a Jew who rejects Judaism is an apostate. While they would be welcome to return to Judaism someday, nobody in the Jewish community is entertaining the idea that an apostate is still part of the Jewish community while they're over on the side worshipping Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

In the case of Messianic "rabbis," they shouldn't call themselves that without being ordained by a Jewish institution - there are many rabbinical schools and rabbinic councils. Ordination can be revoked for a bunch of reasons (depending on the rules of the specific council/body), including proselytizing about Jesus. If a Messianic "rabbi" was ordained outside of a Jewish movement (and no Jewish movement is going to ordain someone who professes faith in Jesus as the messiah), then they shouldn't be using the title "rabbi." That would be like me going to art school and then putting M.D. on the end of my name and trying to practice medicine.

Maybe it’s time for all religions to modernize and get with the times. The ancient rules and traditions from thousands of years ago don’t necessarily apply or fit in our modern culture and world. Especially since it seems like a lot of Jewish people are atheists and don’t even believe in God, why all the rules?

In what ways should Judaism (and "all religions") modernize? I'm a Conservative (denomination, not politics) Jew living without much problem in the modern, secular US. If your vision of "modernization" really just means throwing out traditions and basic tenets of our faith (like the fact that worshipping Jesus isn't compatible with Jewish theology), then I wholeheartedly reject that.

Not believing in God is compatible with Jewish theology, so why is belief in Jesus not compatible? At least the Jewish people who believe in JC believe in God.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not true. They feel extra persecuted because they’re Christians who claim they’re Jewish and they don’t understand why Jews find that obnoxious and offensive.

This sounds anti-semitic. Who gets to decide who is Jewish?

Well... Jewish law has a lot of discussion about this actually. Jews get to decide who is Jewish, and Christian missionary groups that try to offer "Messianic Judaism" as a culturally sensitive way to become Christian are, in fact, antisemitic.

The Jews they are able to convert to this everything bagel-scented Christianity had weak Jewish affiliations to begin with or have psychological problems.

They see themselves as Jewish, so if you agree that Jews get to decide, then they’ve decided they’re Jews, right? You repeatedly trying to just write them off as psychologically disturbed says more about you than about them.

Jews have rules and courts where rules get decided. People don't get to just declare themselves Jewish. By definition, people who accept Jesus as the Messiah are Christians, and Christians are, by definition, not Jews.

NP. I'm curious, where and who are these courts? I can see a problem with a Messianic Jew showing up at a synagogue and proclaiming himself Jewish in front of the presiding rabbi. But control over the designation would seem to be in the hands of a group that calls itself Jewish, no? There's no Jewish pope, is there? Is there a structure like bishops?

Also, Jesus, his 12 disciples, Paul, and many others considered themselves Jewish even as they promulgated Jesus' message.

Anyone can call themselves Jewish because unlike other religions, Jews are not going to try to kill them for blasphemy. But everyone who is acting in good faith knows that someone who professes that Jesus is the Messiah is … Christian, not Jewish.

Again, who gets to decide? Who are these "everyone who is acting in good faith" who decide that some people are Jewish and others aren't?

Who gets to decide? Jews. There are rabbinical courts in Jewish communities that oversee/decide on matters of halacha (including conversions to Judaism, marriage and divorce, etc). While someone's Jewishness can't be revoked or invalidated, a Jew who rejects Judaism is an apostate. While they would be welcome to return to Judaism someday, nobody in the Jewish community is entertaining the idea that an apostate is still part of the Jewish community while they're over on the side worshipping Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

In the case of Messianic "rabbis," they shouldn't call themselves that without being ordained by a Jewish institution - there are many rabbinical schools and rabbinic councils. Ordination can be revoked for a bunch of reasons (depending on the rules of the specific council/body), including proselytizing about Jesus. If a Messianic "rabbi" was ordained outside of a Jewish movement (and no Jewish movement is going to ordain someone who professes faith in Jesus as the messiah), then they shouldn't be using the title "rabbi." That would be like me going to art school and then putting M.D. on the end of my name and trying to practice medicine.

Maybe it’s time for all religions to modernize and get with the times. The ancient rules and traditions from thousands of years ago don’t necessarily apply or fit in our modern culture and world. Especially since it seems like a lot of Jewish people are atheists and don’t even believe in God, why all the rules?

Jews have always been part of a counterculture in our exile. Most of us are fine with that. The ones who are not and feel the need for higher degrees of assimilation will no longer be Jewish in a generation or two.

The rules keep our civilization alive from generation to generation across millenia of dispersion around the world. That's literally our charge: from generation to generation. You won't understand, but we have a completely different conception of time, memory, and community.

I don’t at all doubt that Jewish people have a distinct history, but Jewish people living in America are definitely not counterculture. That’s one of the most ridiculous claims I have ever heard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not true. They feel extra persecuted because they’re Christians who claim they’re Jewish and they don’t understand why Jews find that obnoxious and offensive.

This sounds anti-semitic. Who gets to decide who is Jewish?

Well... Jewish law has a lot of discussion about this actually. Jews get to decide who is Jewish, and Christian missionary groups that try to offer "Messianic Judaism" as a culturally sensitive way to become Christian are, in fact, antisemitic.

The Jews they are able to convert to this everything bagel-scented Christianity had weak Jewish affiliations to begin with or have psychological problems.

They see themselves as Jewish, so if you agree that Jews get to decide, then they’ve decided they’re Jews, right? You repeatedly trying to just write them off as psychologically disturbed says more about you than about them.

Jews have rules and courts where rules get decided. People don't get to just declare themselves Jewish. By definition, people who accept Jesus as the Messiah are Christians, and Christians are, by definition, not Jews.

NP. I'm curious, where and who are these courts? I can see a problem with a Messianic Jew showing up at a synagogue and proclaiming himself Jewish in front of the presiding rabbi. But control over the designation would seem to be in the hands of a group that calls itself Jewish, no? There's no Jewish pope, is there? Is there a structure like bishops?

Also, Jesus, his 12 disciples, Paul, and many others considered themselves Jewish even as they promulgated Jesus' message.

Anyone can call themselves Jewish because unlike other religions, Jews are not going to try to kill them for blasphemy. But everyone who is acting in good faith knows that someone who professes that Jesus is the Messiah is … Christian, not Jewish.

Again, who gets to decide? Who are these "everyone who is acting in good faith" who decide that some people are Jewish and others aren't?

Who gets to decide? Jews. There are rabbinical courts in Jewish communities that oversee/decide on matters of halacha (including conversions to Judaism, marriage and divorce, etc). While someone's Jewishness can't be revoked or invalidated, a Jew who rejects Judaism is an apostate. While they would be welcome to return to Judaism someday, nobody in the Jewish community is entertaining the idea that an apostate is still part of the Jewish community while they're over on the side worshipping Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

In the case of Messianic "rabbis," they shouldn't call themselves that without being ordained by a Jewish institution - there are many rabbinical schools and rabbinic councils. Ordination can be revoked for a bunch of reasons (depending on the rules of the specific council/body), including proselytizing about Jesus. If a Messianic "rabbi" was ordained outside of a Jewish movement (and no Jewish movement is going to ordain someone who professes faith in Jesus as the messiah), then they shouldn't be using the title "rabbi." That would be like me going to art school and then putting M.D. on the end of my name and trying to practice medicine.

Maybe it’s time for all religions to modernize and get with the times. The ancient rules and traditions from thousands of years ago don’t necessarily apply or fit in our modern culture and world. Especially since it seems like a lot of Jewish people are atheists and don’t even believe in God, why all the rules?

Jews have always been part of a counterculture in our exile. Most of us are fine with that. The ones who are not and feel the need for higher degrees of assimilation will no longer be Jewish in a generation or two.

The rules keep our civilization alive from generation to generation across millenia of dispersion around the world. That's literally our charge: from generation to generation. You won't understand, but we have a completely different conception of time, memory, and community.

This is a strange thread. So Jewish people are different from all other people, and different rules apply to Jewish people vs all other people in the world?

Ummm that is kind of the definition of a religion? Yes Jews are different from non-Jews, and yes they follow their own rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not true. They feel extra persecuted because they’re Christians who claim they’re Jewish and they don’t understand why Jews find that obnoxious and offensive.

This sounds anti-semitic. Who gets to decide who is Jewish?

Well... Jewish law has a lot of discussion about this actually. Jews get to decide who is Jewish, and Christian missionary groups that try to offer "Messianic Judaism" as a culturally sensitive way to become Christian are, in fact, antisemitic.

The Jews they are able to convert to this everything bagel-scented Christianity had weak Jewish affiliations to begin with or have psychological problems.

They see themselves as Jewish, so if you agree that Jews get to decide, then they’ve decided they’re Jews, right? You repeatedly trying to just write them off as psychologically disturbed says more about you than about them.

Jews have rules and courts where rules get decided. People don't get to just declare themselves Jewish. By definition, people who accept Jesus as the Messiah are Christians, and Christians are, by definition, not Jews.

NP. I'm curious, where and who are these courts? I can see a problem with a Messianic Jew showing up at a synagogue and proclaiming himself Jewish in front of the presiding rabbi. But control over the designation would seem to be in the hands of a group that calls itself Jewish, no? There's no Jewish pope, is there? Is there a structure like bishops?

Also, Jesus, his 12 disciples, Paul, and many others considered themselves Jewish even as they promulgated Jesus' message.

Anyone can call themselves Jewish because unlike other religions, Jews are not going to try to kill them for blasphemy. But everyone who is acting in good faith knows that someone who professes that Jesus is the Messiah is … Christian, not Jewish.

Again, who gets to decide? Who are these "everyone who is acting in good faith" who decide that some people are Jewish and others aren't?

Who gets to decide? Jews. There are rabbinical courts in Jewish communities that oversee/decide on matters of halacha (including conversions to Judaism, marriage and divorce, etc). While someone's Jewishness can't be revoked or invalidated, a Jew who rejects Judaism is an apostate. While they would be welcome to return to Judaism someday, nobody in the Jewish community is entertaining the idea that an apostate is still part of the Jewish community while they're over on the side worshipping Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

In the case of Messianic "rabbis," they shouldn't call themselves that without being ordained by a Jewish institution - there are many rabbinical schools and rabbinic councils. Ordination can be revoked for a bunch of reasons (depending on the rules of the specific council/body), including proselytizing about Jesus. If a Messianic "rabbi" was ordained outside of a Jewish movement (and no Jewish movement is going to ordain someone who professes faith in Jesus as the messiah), then they shouldn't be using the title "rabbi." That would be like me going to art school and then putting M.D. on the end of my name and trying to practice medicine.

Maybe it’s time for all religions to modernize and get with the times. The ancient rules and traditions from thousands of years ago don’t necessarily apply or fit in our modern culture and world. Especially since it seems like a lot of Jewish people are atheists and don’t even believe in God, why all the rules?

In what ways should Judaism (and "all religions") modernize? I'm a Conservative (denomination, not politics) Jew living without much problem in the modern, secular US. If your vision of "modernization" really just means throwing out traditions and basic tenets of our faith (like the fact that worshipping Jesus isn't compatible with Jewish theology), then I wholeheartedly reject that.

Not believing in God is compatible with Jewish theology, so why is belief in Jesus not compatible? At least the Jewish people who believe in JC believe in God.

are you this dumb in real life, or just the internet? maybe Muslims can just start believing Jesus was actually the prophet and not Muhhamed.