Question about Messianic Judaism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The part that is interesting to me about this thread is that: (1) Jewish people in this thread are correctly stating that only Jewish people get to define who is Jewish and (2) those same posters are labeling Messianic [___] as Christian.

I totally get and respect No. 1 above, but I don’t think posters asking for the respect to determine who is their community should be telling others what another religion is.

Messianic [___] (a) do not fully assent to either the Apostle’s Creed or Nicene Creed; (b) do not recognize the Holy Trinity as the divine nature of God (in particular the Holy Spirit); (c) do not believe that the redemption of the crucifixion replaced the Mosaic Covenant; (d) do not practice a sacramental life that would be recognizable to Christians (in particular the Eucharist and how Catholics and Eastern Orthodox make that foundational to their practices); and (e) do not believe that Jesus founded the Christian Church.

All of these, but in particular (b), (c) and (e), are just massive, fundamental issues to every Christian denomination. And with (d) even non-observing Christian denominations disagree with Messianic [___] teaching on the meaning and purpose of The Last Supper. No matter how far a Christian stretches the boundaries on ecumenicalism I don’t see how to get there with Messianic [___]. Indeed, after briefly skimming their materials, it doesn’t appear that the Messianic [___] people believe themselves to be in communion with any Christians and they themselves attack developed Christian teachings.

I respect that the Jewish Community gets to define who is Jewish. Perhaps that respect could be mutually extended to the Christian Community because this group discussed here are not Christian, either. They should not be called that.

This seems reasonable, both on theological and community-identity grounds. But how should we account for the fact that Messianic Judaism is largely an outgrowth of a movement started by the Conservative Baptist Association (now the Venture Church Network)? It seems like they're their own sui generis thing that incorporates elements of both Christian and Jewish belief and practice and generally alienates everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The part that is interesting to me about this thread is that: (1) Jewish people in this thread are correctly stating that only Jewish people get to define who is Jewish and (2) those same posters are labeling Messianic [___] as Christian.

I totally get and respect No. 1 above, but I don’t think posters asking for the respect to determine who is their community should be telling others what another religion is.

Messianic [___] (a) do not fully assent to either the Apostle’s Creed or Nicene Creed; (b) do not recognize the Holy Trinity as the divine nature of God (in particular the Holy Spirit); (c) do not believe that the redemption of the crucifixion replaced the Mosaic Covenant; (d) do not practice a sacramental life that would be recognizable to Christians (in particular the Eucharist and how Catholics and Eastern Orthodox make that foundational to their practices); and (e) do not believe that Jesus founded the Christian Church.

All of these, but in particular (b), (c) and (e), are just massive, fundamental issues to every Christian denomination. And with (d) even non-observing Christian denominations disagree with Messianic [___] teaching on the meaning and purpose of The Last Supper. No matter how far a Christian stretches the boundaries on ecumenicalism I don’t see how to get there with Messianic [___]. Indeed, after briefly skimming their materials, it doesn’t appear that the Messianic [___] people believe themselves to be in communion with any Christians and they themselves attack developed Christian teachings.

I respect that the Jewish Community gets to define who is Jewish. Perhaps that respect could be mutually extended to the Christian Community because this group discussed here are not Christian, either. They should not be called that.

This seems reasonable, both on theological and community-identity grounds. But how should we account for the fact that Messianic Judaism is largely an outgrowth of a movement started by the Conservative Baptist Association (now the Venture Church Network)? It seems like they're their own sui generis thing that incorporates elements of both Christian and Jewish belief and practice and generally alienates everyone.

The same way that Judaism accounts for Christianity being started by Jewish people? Call it and treat it as something entirely different.