How do I communicate with someone who can’t?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And OP, if he loves you and is trying to work on things, take it as a blessing. There just aren't a lot of men out there than can do life's administration besides their own. They don't exist. And if they do, they are taken or they are helping everyone and don't have that much time for family.

This is so wrong. There are men out there who are completely competent and come to the table as equal partners. OP (and apparently you) just didn't select those men.

100% this.

Men absolutely can and do perform life admin, mental load, physical load, and are balanced partners. Many more than this person seems to think. Even those with ADHD, if they have had coaching and tools to manage it.

I feel very badly for women who think this is normal and okay to life with.

ASD is more challenging, and extremely rough on everyone if the partner on the spectrum masked until a big life changing event (such as having kids).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do some research on Chris Watts and autism and you can see how when they first started dating he had autistic tendencies and she taught him how to work with people better but then that led to him resenting her. There is a video of him giving speeches in a class which makes this obvious. Their life ended up with him realizing he couldn’t keep up with all the family pressure, finding a mistress and killing his wife and kids. The wife was also narcissistic, high energy, thought nothing of giving him small criticisms like pasta shells and taking on high risk with money and more kids causing more stress for him and didn’t realize that he wasn’t on board with decisions or could handle these stressors. His family had lots of loopholes because that’s how they deal with stress. His dad is an addict and also autistic. They can’t cope with the world well unless everyone is positive and forgiving with one another all day long. Life is transactional and it’s just expected that multiple errors will occur all day so that the transactions can continue without raising anxiety. Reducing anxiety is the whole purpose of life. Try just making light of things and overlooking the mistakes and see if things get better emotionally. They won’t learn to fix mistakes because they can’t but you can get along better together and find other things to appreciate about each other. People like this can be very loyal but can’t remember back to yesterday and what you did for them and calculate effort with feeling. They just remember how you make them feel.

This is all true.

But to tell a NT wife and kids to go live like a simple hermit to accommodate a dysfunctional and unhealthy father is healthy for any of them.

He likely grew up in a household that stayed home, only did simple things - no holidays, vacations, sports, and never socialized or spoke much.

That is their normal.

He hit a wall with wife and kids and now all are suffering. He should exit stage left and just swing by for dinner once a week when he has the energy.

I’m the OP and you are correct that my DH’s family mostly stayed home, barely celebrated holidays, and did minimal social/extracurricular stuff. And they are quite quiet at meals. I didn’t know any of this until I got to know them over the years.

But how did YOU know this?! I’m baffled and intrigued.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And OP, if he loves you and is trying to work on things, take it as a blessing. There just aren't a lot of men out there than can do life's administration besides their own. They don't exist. And if they do, they are taken or they are helping everyone and don't have that much time for family.

This is so wrong. There are men out there who are completely competent and come to the table as equal partners. OP (and apparently you) just didn't select those men.

100% this.

Men absolutely can and do perform life admin, mental load, physical load, and are balanced partners. Many more than this person seems to think. Even those with ADHD, if they have had coaching and tools to manage it.

I feel very badly for women who think this is normal and okay to life with.

ASD is more challenging, and extremely rough on everyone if the partner on the spectrum masked until a big life changing event (such as having kids).

Agree. There are competent, functional husbands and fathers and homeowners out there.

Unfortunately OPs spouse and whatever he’s got going on, is not marriage material.

Curious what age the kids are?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And OP, if he loves you and is trying to work on things, take it as a blessing. There just aren't a lot of men out there than can do life's administration besides their own. They don't exist. And if they do, they are taken or they are helping everyone and don't have that much time for family.

This is so wrong. There are men out there who are completely competent and come to the table as equal partners. OP (and apparently you) just didn't select those men.

100% this.

Men absolutely can and do perform life admin, mental load, physical load, and are balanced partners. Many more than this person seems to think. Even those with ADHD, if they have had coaching and tools to manage it.

I feel very badly for women who think this is normal and okay to life with.

ASD is more challenging, and extremely rough on everyone if the partner on the spectrum masked until a big life changing event (such as having kids).

I think they have to tell themselves this, otherwise they're admitting to themselves that they've chosen poorly and their life is worse because of it. So they deny the existence of men who are full partners.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry Op.

This is so hard and so wrong of behavior.

It’s hard to tell if he’s just low capacity okus lashing out or if he just doesn’t care and won’t put in a base level of effort into household needs or controlling his temper.

First he needs an anti anger med, call it anti anxiety, like lexapro
Next he needs executive functioning coach to get some new systems and habits that allow him to function like an adult, call it “systems coaching.” This should not be a spouse, bad dynamic, even through you could prob offer tons of tips
Finally, he needs an individual therapist to learn how to control him temper/immature reactions, better communicate verbally and written, and repairs the relationship. This therapist needs to make every third appointment a joint one with both of you. Peal back the onion with some examples good and bad from the week and understand what each of you are working on. Therapy is effort, it sitting there talking. He needs to do the homework. It will save his marriage.

At one point around the time of the ADD diagnosis, he started therapy with someone specializing in recently diagnosed adults. The focus was supposed to be on executive functioning skills and managing the anxiety that came with his ADD. From what he told me, it turned into the therapist working on him accepting his past disappointments in life as they related to ADD. Which is fair, but it got distorted within our marriage as the therapist saying that none of this was his fault because he hadn’t had help as a child. He took it as an excuse to not be responsible for his actions and does sincerely believe that the medication is supposed to do the work and anything it doesn’t fix is not his responsibility because he “can’t help it.” He refused to ever return to any kind of therapist and I’ve given up hope for him to see that the work of therapy/onion peeling as something he needs to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do some research on Chris Watts and autism and you can see how when they first started dating he had autistic tendencies and she taught him how to work with people better but then that led to him resenting her. There is a video of him giving speeches in a class which makes this obvious. Their life ended up with him realizing he couldn’t keep up with all the family pressure, finding a mistress and killing his wife and kids. The wife was also narcissistic, high energy, thought nothing of giving him small criticisms like pasta shells and taking on high risk with money and more kids causing more stress for him and didn’t realize that he wasn’t on board with decisions or could handle these stressors. His family had lots of loopholes because that’s how they deal with stress. His dad is an addict and also autistic. They can’t cope with the world well unless everyone is positive and forgiving with one another all day long. Life is transactional and it’s just expected that multiple errors will occur all day so that the transactions can continue without raising anxiety. Reducing anxiety is the whole purpose of life. Try just making light of things and overlooking the mistakes and see if things get better emotionally. They won’t learn to fix mistakes because they can’t but you can get along better together and find other things to appreciate about each other. People like this can be very loyal but can’t remember back to yesterday and what you did for them and calculate effort with feeling. They just remember how you make them feel.

This is all true.

But to tell a NT wife and kids to go live like a simple hermit to accommodate a dysfunctional and unhealthy father is healthy for any of them.

He likely grew up in a household that stayed home, only did simple things - no holidays, vacations, sports, and never socialized or spoke much.

That is their normal.

He hit a wall with wife and kids and now all are suffering. He should exit stage left and just swing by for dinner once a week when he has the energy.

I’m the OP and you are correct that my DH’s family mostly stayed home, barely celebrated holidays, and did minimal social/extracurricular stuff. And they are quite quiet at meals. I didn’t know any of this until I got to know them over the years.

But how did YOU know this?! I’m baffled and intrigued.

My spouse and his family are the same.

It’s HFA/ADHD plus cultural plus all they know is all they know (not much!).

Join Dr Kathy Marshack’s groups and read her books. I did a year of that and now nothing surprises me. But I still don’t know how long I’ll stay. This is not what I signed up for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry Op.

This is so hard and so wrong of behavior.

It’s hard to tell if he’s just low capacity okus lashing out or if he just doesn’t care and won’t put in a base level of effort into household needs or controlling his temper.

First he needs an anti anger med, call it anti anxiety, like lexapro
Next he needs executive functioning coach to get some new systems and habits that allow him to function like an adult, call it “systems coaching.” This should not be a spouse, bad dynamic, even through you could prob offer tons of tips
Finally, he needs an individual therapist to learn how to control him temper/immature reactions, better communicate verbally and written, and repairs the relationship. This therapist needs to make every third appointment a joint one with both of you. Peal back the onion with some examples good and bad from the week and understand what each of you are working on. Therapy is effort, it sitting there talking. He needs to do the homework. It will save his marriage.

At one point around the time of the ADD diagnosis, he started therapy with someone specializing in recently diagnosed adults. The focus was supposed to be on executive functioning skills and managing the anxiety that came with his ADD. From what he told me, it turned into the therapist working on him accepting his past disappointments in life as they related to ADD. Which is fair, but it got distorted within our marriage as the therapist saying that none of this was his fault because he hadn’t had help as a child. He took it as an excuse to not be responsible for his actions and does sincerely believe that the medication is supposed to do the work and anything it doesn’t fix is not his responsibility because he “can’t help it.” He refused to ever return to any kind of therapist and I’ve given up hope for him to see that the work of therapy/onion peeling as something he needs to do.

GTFO

[Anonymous]

I also got very social with my friends, work, kids stuff, my extended family. It saves your sanity.

And told people what I was going through in the household.

People get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also got very social with my friends, work, kids stuff, my extended family. It saves your sanity.

And told people what I was going through in the household.

People get it.

When I took the chance of telling a few friends what was going on, they basically ran away. We are more acquaintances now and I learned not to tell other friends. Unfortunately I don’t any living extended family and just have one person left from my nuclear family. I imagine that if I had an aunt or some first cousins left that I would probably have the resources/support to feel like I could bail out and have a place to land with my kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And OP, if he loves you and is trying to work on things, take it as a blessing. There just aren't a lot of men out there than can do life's administration besides their own. They don't exist. And if they do, they are taken or they are helping everyone and don't have that much time for family.

This is so wrong. There are men out there who are completely competent and come to the table as equal partners. OP (and apparently you) just didn't select those men.

100% this.

Men absolutely can and do perform life admin, mental load, physical load, and are balanced partners. Many more than this person seems to think. Even those with ADHD, if they have had coaching and tools to manage it.

I feel very badly for women who think this is normal and okay to life with.

ASD is more challenging, and extremely rough on everyone if the partner on the spectrum masked until a big life changing event (such as having kids).

I think they have to tell themselves this, otherwise they're admitting to themselves that they've chosen poorly and their life is worse because of it. So they deny the existence of men who are full partners.

No.
They were empathetic and gave these little brain farts a pass, the benefit of the doubt. Plus life is so simple living in an apartment, going to work or being a grad student, and date dinners out.

After marriage, house and kids, responsibilities went up and he could not and would not adapt. He reverted back to sleep/office/eat/tv time. Any comments or requests were met with scorn.

Now the wife and kids know all about mental disorders so they can “pick right” in the future. But most people don’t know about the negatives of living with someone with invisible disabilities like high functioning autism. Increasingly they do.

Having good role models in their own fathers and brothers also help ID the current problems in the household. Not that an HFA will start mimicking a positive role model husband. No energy or time for that!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The same thing used to happen with my ADHD/ASD husband at the peak time of work+kid stress. He couldn't hear/couldn't process/would forget our conversations, and then, due to emotional dysregulation, anxiety and mental rigidity, had no bandwidth to own his mistakes honestly and not break down into a ridiculous, manipulative man-tantrum.

I considered divorce many times. We went to couple's therapy, which did not help, and I had MANY conversations with him about respectful communication methods. It helped somewhat, and then in times of extra stress, such as a change in routine, he'd revert to false accusations of gaslighting, and say we were all out to get him, etc... Lots of ups and downs. The main reason I didn't divorce is that I realized he'd be an even shittier co-parent than what he was at the time. He pulled all sorts of authoritative crap on the kids as well, and I wanted to be there to protect them.

What finally helped is that he's now not working as much and the kids are older and don't need constant supervision and help. When he's not stressed, he's perfectly reasonable. The man is just not equipped to multi-task effectively.

You have to have a long, serious, conversation (or several), and get through to him that he lacks basic respect for you and has to entirely overhaul his way of listening and communicating.

Gently, what would you suggest OP in such a series of conversation that would work for her that did not work for you?

Also, how do you not have resentment after all of what you went through? How can you stay once the kids are older?

PP you replied to. The conversations worked to correct his false perception that he was the one being imposed on in daily life. He reduced his outbursts as a result. However in times of intense stress, such as going traveling cross-country and being all out of our usual routine, he would have an outburst, just because he could not manage his emotions, due to anxiety over not being in familiar surroundings and having to make a sustained effort in attention.

As for the resentment. I spent a decade living with resentment, and that didn't help my mental state, PP. I wasted 10 years of my life feeling sorry for myself. In my 40s, I decided to move on, for my own good. What helped is that his outbursts are very rare now, because he's not under constant stress at work and at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do some research on Chris Watts and autism and you can see how when they first started dating he had autistic tendencies and she taught him how to work with people better but then that led to him resenting her. There is a video of him giving speeches in a class which makes this obvious. Their life ended up with him realizing he couldn’t keep up with all the family pressure, finding a mistress and killing his wife and kids. The wife was also narcissistic, high energy, thought nothing of giving him small criticisms like pasta shells and taking on high risk with money and more kids causing more stress for him and didn’t realize that he wasn’t on board with decisions or could handle these stressors. His family had lots of loopholes because that’s how they deal with stress. His dad is an addict and also autistic. They can’t cope with the world well unless everyone is positive and forgiving with one another all day long. Life is transactional and it’s just expected that multiple errors will occur all day so that the transactions can continue without raising anxiety. Reducing anxiety is the whole purpose of life. Try just making light of things and overlooking the mistakes and see if things get better emotionally. They won’t learn to fix mistakes because they can’t but you can get along better together and find other things to appreciate about each other. People like this can be very loyal but can’t remember back to yesterday and what you did for them and calculate effort with feeling. They just remember how you make them feel.

This is all true.

But to tell a NT wife and kids to go live like a simple hermit to accommodate a dysfunctional and unhealthy father is healthy for any of them.

He likely grew up in a household that stayed home, only did simple things - no holidays, vacations, sports, and never socialized or spoke much.

That is their normal.

He hit a wall with wife and kids and now all are suffering. He should exit stage left and just swing by for dinner once a week when he has the energy.

I’m the OP and you are correct that my DH’s family mostly stayed home, barely celebrated holidays, and did minimal social/extracurricular stuff. And they are quite quiet at meals. I didn’t know any of this until I got to know them over the years.

But how did YOU know this?! I’m baffled and intrigued.

My mother is mentally ill (not adhd or hfa) and our household growing up was much the same way to accommodate her. Nothing mattered as much as placating her and keeping her calm. Everything else is secondary or doesn’t matter at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do some research on Chris Watts and autism and you can see how when they first started dating he had autistic tendencies and she taught him how to work with people better but then that led to him resenting her. There is a video of him giving speeches in a class which makes this obvious. Their life ended up with him realizing he couldn’t keep up with all the family pressure, finding a mistress and killing his wife and kids. The wife was also narcissistic, high energy, thought nothing of giving him small criticisms like pasta shells and taking on high risk with money and more kids causing more stress for him and didn’t realize that he wasn’t on board with decisions or could handle these stressors. His family had lots of loopholes because that’s how they deal with stress. His dad is an addict and also autistic. They can’t cope with the world well unless everyone is positive and forgiving with one another all day long. Life is transactional and it’s just expected that multiple errors will occur all day so that the transactions can continue without raising anxiety. Reducing anxiety is the whole purpose of life. Try just making light of things and overlooking the mistakes and see if things get better emotionally. They won’t learn to fix mistakes because they can’t but you can get along better together and find other things to appreciate about each other. People like this can be very loyal but can’t remember back to yesterday and what you did for them and calculate effort with feeling. They just remember how you make them feel.

This is all true.

But to tell a NT wife and kids to go live like a simple hermit to accommodate a dysfunctional and unhealthy father is healthy for any of them.

He likely grew up in a household that stayed home, only did simple things - no holidays, vacations, sports, and never socialized or spoke much.

That is their normal.

He hit a wall with wife and kids and now all are suffering. He should exit stage left and just swing by for dinner once a week when he has the energy.

I’m the OP and you are correct that my DH’s family mostly stayed home, barely celebrated holidays, and did minimal social/extracurricular stuff. And they are quite quiet at meals. I didn’t know any of this until I got to know them over the years.

But how did YOU know this?! I’m baffled and intrigued.

+1

DP here. Same. The ILs are exact opposite my family. My family was not perfect, but we liked each other and communicated, which makes a WORLD of difference. OP, you can be sugar sweet, I really don't think it matters, because some people are looking for fault (as I mentioned earlier). It makes things very difficult. It is especially hard when DH has few or no positive and supportive friends (much like his family). There are friends of the family that are glad to use and mistreat DH and pile it on, but who wants to live that way as an adult couple?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do some research on Chris Watts and autism and you can see how when they first started dating he had autistic tendencies and she taught him how to work with people better but then that led to him resenting her. There is a video of him giving speeches in a class which makes this obvious. Their life ended up with him realizing he couldn’t keep up with all the family pressure, finding a mistress and killing his wife and kids. The wife was also narcissistic, high energy, thought nothing of giving him small criticisms like pasta shells and taking on high risk with money and more kids causing more stress for him and didn’t realize that he wasn’t on board with decisions or could handle these stressors. His family had lots of loopholes because that’s how they deal with stress. His dad is an addict and also autistic. They can’t cope with the world well unless everyone is positive and forgiving with one another all day long. Life is transactional and it’s just expected that multiple errors will occur all day so that the transactions can continue without raising anxiety. Reducing anxiety is the whole purpose of life. Try just making light of things and overlooking the mistakes and see if things get better emotionally. They won’t learn to fix mistakes because they can’t but you can get along better together and find other things to appreciate about each other. People like this can be very loyal but can’t remember back to yesterday and what you did for them and calculate effort with feeling. They just remember how you make them feel.

This is all true.

But to tell a NT wife and kids to go live like a simple hermit to accommodate a dysfunctional and unhealthy father is healthy for any of them.

He likely grew up in a household that stayed home, only did simple things - no holidays, vacations, sports, and never socialized or spoke much.

That is their normal.

He hit a wall with wife and kids and now all are suffering. He should exit stage left and just swing by for dinner once a week when he has the energy.

I’m the OP and you are correct that my DH’s family mostly stayed home, barely celebrated holidays, and did minimal social/extracurricular stuff. And they are quite quiet at meals. I didn’t know any of this until I got to know them over the years.

But how did YOU know this?! I’m baffled and intrigued.

My mother is mentally ill (not adhd or hfa) and our household growing up was much the same way to accommodate her. Nothing mattered as much as placating her and keeping her calm. Everything else is secondary or doesn’t matter at all.

PP here. MIL is like this. I feel like people walk on eggshells for her - ILs would never see this, or admit to it, in a million years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do some research on Chris Watts and autism and you can see how when they first started dating he had autistic tendencies and she taught him how to work with people better but then that led to him resenting her. There is a video of him giving speeches in a class which makes this obvious. Their life ended up with him realizing he couldn’t keep up with all the family pressure, finding a mistress and killing his wife and kids. The wife was also narcissistic, high energy, thought nothing of giving him small criticisms like pasta shells and taking on high risk with money and more kids causing more stress for him and didn’t realize that he wasn’t on board with decisions or could handle these stressors. His family had lots of loopholes because that’s how they deal with stress. His dad is an addict and also autistic. They can’t cope with the world well unless everyone is positive and forgiving with one another all day long. Life is transactional and it’s just expected that multiple errors will occur all day so that the transactions can continue without raising anxiety. Reducing anxiety is the whole purpose of life. Try just making light of things and overlooking the mistakes and see if things get better emotionally. They won’t learn to fix mistakes because they can’t but you can get along better together and find other things to appreciate about each other. People like this can be very loyal but can’t remember back to yesterday and what you did for them and calculate effort with feeling. They just remember how you make them feel.

This is all true.

But to tell a NT wife and kids to go live like a simple hermit to accommodate a dysfunctional and unhealthy father is healthy for any of them.

He likely grew up in a household that stayed home, only did simple things - no holidays, vacations, sports, and never socialized or spoke much.

That is their normal.

He hit a wall with wife and kids and now all are suffering. He should exit stage left and just swing by for dinner once a week when he has the energy.

I’m the OP and you are correct that my DH’s family mostly stayed home, barely celebrated holidays, and did minimal social/extracurricular stuff. And they are quite quiet at meals. I didn’t know any of this until I got to know them over the years.

But how did YOU know this?! I’m baffled and intrigued.

My mother is mentally ill (not adhd or hfa) and our household growing up was much the same way to accommodate her. Nothing mattered as much as placating her and keeping her calm. Everything else is secondary or doesn’t matter at all.

Same in my spouse’s house whilst growing up. He told me they all ignored his father for many years in the house.
I was like WTF? Why?

There was no formal diagnosis and their mother never named what she suspected. My spouse said it was because the father never knew what was going on and couldn’t follow conversations.

It’s now crystal clear. And we have to be careful with the grandkids.