Mixed feelings about not being more outspoken about brother’s homebirth plan

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: You know, there are countries in Europe where home birth is the norm, and they have better outcomes than we do here. Of course, they have more built in support for it too so that is a factor. But home birth isn't some weird, out there wheat grass shot idea in many modern places in the world.

What is up with this thread? Spouting so many lies. Not even misinformation, flat out lies. There is not a single European country where the majority of children born in the year 2023 are born in someone’s bathtub. Did you get hit in the head?

I think (hope?) PP meant home birth was a normal option, not that the majority of births were home births. But I did go look for statistics from the UK, where I do that the NHS considers home birth one of the normal, supported options and thought their risk assessment was interesting:

Anonymous wrote:f you’re having your first baby, home birth slightly increases the risk of serious problems for the baby – including death or issues that might affect the baby's quality of life – from 5 in 1,000 for a hospital birth to 9 in 1,000 for a home birth. If you’re having your second baby, a planned home birth is as safe as having your baby in hospital or a midwife-led unit.

https://www.nhs.uk/pregnancy/labour-and-birth/preparing-for-the-birth/where-to-give-birth-the-options/

So even in countries where it's comparatively normal, it's still considered risky for a first baby, which makes sense to me.

[Anonymous]

Right, homebirth is a normal, supported option in many countries such as the UK and the Netherlands. It's not an out there thing. The PP squealing in exclamation over that fact "Did you get hit in the head" is displaying the ignorance that so many women in the US have to deal with in regards to medical care.

[Anonymous]

NP. They would not have listened to you. Of course this is devastating. Yes, it is their own fault for placing their own experiences above the health of their child but it’s more the fault of the quacks that captured their minds. They are victims here too, victims of a cultish community that isolates women at their most vulnerable from adequate medical care. You are right about everything. But they would never, ever have listened to you. They were mentally captured.

Just focus on supporting them. Do not breathe a word about the circumstances of the birth. It will do no good. Focus on finding compassion for all of them. They are all victims here.

Best of luck to your sweet niece.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The baby’s condition may have nothing to do with the birth plan - and it wasn’t your brothers call or anyones call but moms (yeah, unpopular opinion, but mom gets to decide where she gives birth and who is present because it’s her medical event not anyone else’s).

Say nothing at all about the birth, just find ways to be supportive that help the parents.

The baby's condition had everything to do with home birth. Over 37% of these births have issues, the things op described would not have happened in a hospital.

I'm a special educator. I have taught students with brain damage from anoxia due to the kind of birth trauma the OP describes. All of them were born in hospitals.

You don’t understand statistics. You have no business teaching children.

PP said that these kinds of injuries don’t happen to kids born in hospitals. I provided evidence that they do. I didn’t say anything about relative likelihood, just that they happen in both settings. How does that show a lack of understanding of statistics?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Right, homebirth is a normal, supported option in many countries such as the UK and the Netherlands. It's not an out there thing. The PP squealing in exclamation over that fact "Did you get hit in the head" is displaying the ignorance that so many women in the US have to deal with in regards to medical care.

Exactly. PLUS, UK hospitals have MINIMAL routine interventions compared to Americans hospitals on steroids with routine interventions.

[Anonymous]

Don’t say a thing. Not your place.

If Mom or Baby die. That’s not on you. They made the informed choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: You know, there are countries in Europe where home birth is the norm, and they have better outcomes than we do here. Of course, they have more built in support for it too so that is a factor. But home birth isn't some weird, out there wheat grass shot idea in many modern places in the world.

What is up with this thread? Spouting so many lies. Not even misinformation, flat out lies. There is not a single European country where the majority of children born in the year 2023 are born in someone’s bathtub. Did you get hit in the head?

I think (hope?) PP meant home birth was a normal option, not that the majority of births were home births. But I did go look for statistics from the UK, where I do that the NHS considers home birth one of the normal, supported options and thought their risk assessment was interesting:

Anonymous wrote:f you’re having your first baby, home birth slightly increases the risk of serious problems for the baby – including death or issues that might affect the baby's quality of life – from 5 in 1,000 for a hospital birth to 9 in 1,000 for a home birth. If you’re having your second baby, a planned home birth is as safe as having your baby in hospital or a midwife-led unit.

https://www.nhs.uk/pregnancy/labour-and-birth/preparing-for-the-birth/where-to-give-birth-the-options/

So even in countries where it's comparatively normal, it's still considered risky for a first baby, which makes sense to me.

It actually almost doubled the risk of a poor outcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Homebirth has far fewer “routine” interventions. As a very healthy woman, I didn’t want hospital protocols constantly interfering with MY birthing process. It’s not like they allow you to refuse much of anything. I need to trust my attendants to actually hear and respect what I’m telling them. It’s my birth, not theirs. They don’t get to control me. Sorry.

Actually it’s your CHILD’s birth and your “attendants” are the medically trained experts, not you. Such classic narcissistic perspective.

What a crazy and wrong point of view you have. I'm not op or the prior poster but so many of our problems are caused by this very misogynistic view of women's health. Women want more control over their bodies and choices. The insane things the hospitals push can be out of hand.

Just because women want choices doesn’t mean they are good choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The outcome could have been exactly the same with a hospital birth. My oldest nearly died during childbirth and I had outstanding prenatal care and a hospital birth. Be grateful they were smart enough and calm enough to get the baby to the hospital.

This is such a dumb argument. “My sister drove without a seatbelt and now has severe injuries from a horrific car crash.”
“She could have had horrific injuries even if she was wearing a seatbelt.”
See how stupid that sounds? We all know wearing a seatbelt is much much safer.

Actually, it is your logic that doesn't make sense.

The lack of seatbelt either was or was not the reason for the injuries.
The homebirth either was or was not the reason for the outcome. And nothing in OP's post suggests that it was.

It’s actually like the Op saw that the car seat wasn’t installed properly. Didn’t say anything and they had an accident.

[Anonymous]

My friend attempted a home birth for her first baby and it went seriously, dangerously wrong; she was rushed to the hospital for an emergency c-section by ambulance. It was traumatizing for her and it infuriates me that everyone in her natural-home-birth-kumbaya circle insisted that home births are the best way to give birth. First births should be treated totally differently from subsequent births.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is just an insidious way of centering yourself. It was never about you and your judgment.

Exactly. Your brother has a baby in the NICU, and you’re making this about you.

This. You have a serious need for attention that is just not compatible with supporting a sick family member. None of this is about you and if you can’t see this you need to seek therapy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When my brother told me he was having his child at home, I was naturally concerned. I have children and knew enough babies that had issues during the birth such as being stuck, severe bleeding, cord wrapped around it’s neck, etc. I didn’t want to overstep with my sister in law. The birth did not go well and the baby nearly didn’t survive. She will be in the NICU for a few months and is on a ventilator. I’m having guilt about not saying more at the time. Has anyone been in this situation? Or have the perspective of a parent who birthed at home? It’s not like I think they would have listened to me or anything but I don’t think they understood the risks since it was their first child.

This happened to my family but, it was my SIL and the baby died. I don't feel guilty because it was none of my business and they wouldn't have listened anyway. Baby could have died in hospital but, had zero chance at home. Just try to be supportive but, don't say anything.

[Anonymous]

Op I would feel the same. I’m sure they fee some measure of guilt for foolishly insisting on home birth.

[Anonymous]

Adverse outcomes happen in every setting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When my brother told me he was having his child at home, I was naturally concerned. I have children and knew enough babies that had issues during the birth such as being stuck, severe bleeding, cord wrapped around it’s neck, etc. I didn’t want to overstep with my sister in law. The birth did not go well and the baby nearly didn’t survive. She will be in the NICU for a few months and is on a ventilator. I’m having guilt about not saying more at the time. Has anyone been in this situation? Or have the perspective of a parent who birthed at home? It’s not like I think they would have listened to me or anything but I don’t think they understood the risks since it was their first child.

It was not your responsibility nor would you have changed their mind. I had a home birth on my 3rd kid and it was a disaster. I regretted it immensely due to the complexity and awful experience. I had two previous uneventful births at the hospital so assumed that #3 would be the same. I was so wrong.
All this is to say that sometimes you have to live and learn. You would not have changed their minds. It is tragic what happened but nothing you could've done.

That said, I do share my story often - not with people who are currently pregnant and seeking home birth - but just in general so that anyone who might think of it in the future will remember how it actually goes for some of us. There's a reason that so many women died in childbirth in generations past. Don't know why we keep forgetting that.

Hope the baby begins to do much better, OP!