Mixed feelings about not being more outspoken about brother’s homebirth plan

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm calling troll. Even ACOG supports out of hospital birth attended by trained/quality midwives.
This is clearly just someone pushing an agenda (that they don't seem to know much about).

🤔 nice try.
“the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists believes that hospitals and accredited birth centers are the safest settings for birth.”

https://www.acog.org/clinical/clinical-guidance/committee-opinion/articles/2017/04/planned-home-birth

I like how you missed the first word of the statement, which was “ALTHOUGH”, followed by qualifications To the statement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m so sorry about your niece. I would have done exactly as you did (kept mouth shut but internally wondered if I should have said something) and would feel exactly as you do (guilt that maaaaybe you could have helped prevent this). But truly, they would not have listened to you. People who choose home births are almost always very committed to their idea and have shut out all the evidence of how dangerous it is. We have friends who tried to have a homebirth with twins and an AMA mom and even midwives turned them down but they found one who would do it. Of course they ended up with a scary emergency C in a winter storm but thankfully the kids are ok. I kind of wish home births were not allowed. So much risk and baby has no say.

^ Example of medical control freak mentality. If I had opted for a sickly hospital environment, I would have been another victim of an unnecessary Cesarean major surgery. However, with excellent (and patient!) midwives at my side, I gave birth to a perfectly healthy and happy baby.

Best decision of my lifetime, yet people who prefer hospitals should absolutely have that option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is just an insidious way of centering yourself. It was never about you and your judgment.

Exactly. Your brother has a baby in the NICU, and you’re making this about you.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The baby’s condition may have nothing to do with the birth plan - and it wasn’t your brothers call or anyones call but moms (yeah, unpopular opinion, but mom gets to decide where she gives birth and who is present because it’s her medical event not anyone else’s).

Say nothing at all about the birth, just find ways to be supportive that help the parents.

The baby's condition had everything to do with home birth. Over 37% of these births have issues, the things op described would not have happened in a hospital.

I'm a special educator. I have taught students with brain damage from anoxia due to the kind of birth trauma the OP describes. All of them were born in hospitals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The baby’s condition may have nothing to do with the birth plan - and it wasn’t your brothers call or anyones call but moms (yeah, unpopular opinion, but mom gets to decide where she gives birth and who is present because it’s her medical event not anyone else’s).

Say nothing at all about the birth, just find ways to be supportive that help the parents.

The baby's condition had everything to do with home birth. Over 37% of these births have issues, the things op described would not have happened in a hospital.

Why would anyone here tell such a blatant lie?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The baby’s condition may have nothing to do with the birth plan - and it wasn’t your brothers call or anyones call but moms (yeah, unpopular opinion, but mom gets to decide where she gives birth and who is present because it’s her medical event not anyone else’s).

Say nothing at all about the birth, just find ways to be supportive that help the parents.

The baby's condition had everything to do with home birth. Over 37% of these births have issues, the things op described would not have happened in a hospital.

I'm a special educator. I have taught students with brain damage from anoxia due to the kind of birth trauma the OP describes. All of them were born in hospitals.

We can all speculate forever, but none of us knows what happened or if it would/wouldn’t have happened at a hospital. Here’s the thing though, if there is an injury, the parents will have to live with the guilt/question that things may have been different had they given birth in a hospital.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The baby’s condition may have nothing to do with the birth plan - and it wasn’t your brothers call or anyones call but moms (yeah, unpopular opinion, but mom gets to decide where she gives birth and who is present because it’s her medical event not anyone else’s).

Say nothing at all about the birth, just find ways to be supportive that help the parents.

The baby's condition had everything to do with home birth. Over 37% of these births have issues, the things op described would not have happened in a hospital.

I'm a special educator. I have taught students with brain damage from anoxia due to the kind of birth trauma the OP describes. All of them were born in hospitals.

Virtually all babies are born in hospitals. Home births are like 1% of births.

[Anonymous]

Homebirth has far fewer “routine” interventions. As a very healthy woman, I didn’t want hospital protocols constantly interfering with MY birthing process. It’s not like they allow you to refuse much of anything. I need to trust my attendants to actually hear and respect what I’m telling them. It’s my birth, not theirs. They don’t get to control me. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The baby’s condition may have nothing to do with the birth plan - and it wasn’t your brothers call or anyones call but moms (yeah, unpopular opinion, but mom gets to decide where she gives birth and who is present because it’s her medical event not anyone else’s).

Say nothing at all about the birth, just find ways to be supportive that help the parents.

The baby's condition had everything to do with home birth. Over 37% of these births have issues, the things op described would not have happened in a hospital.

I'm a special educator. I have taught students with brain damage from anoxia due to the kind of birth trauma the OP describes. All of them were born in hospitals.

Virtually all babies are born in hospitals. Home births are like 1% of births.

+1

special educator Need to get better at how statistics work

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When my brother told me he was having his child at home, I was naturally concerned. I have children and knew enough babies that had issues during the birth such as being stuck, severe bleeding, cord wrapped around it’s neck, etc. I didn’t want to overstep with my sister in law. The birth did not go well and the baby nearly didn’t survive. She will be in the NICU for a few months and is on a ventilator. I’m having guilt about not saying more at the time. Has anyone been in this situation? Or have the perspective of a parent who birthed at home? It’s not like I think they would have listened to me or anything but I don’t think they understood the risks since it was their first child.

It wasn’t your job to educate them about the risks. They wouldn’t have listened. That’s what makes it so tragic, but you did not cause this and could not have prevented it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The baby’s condition may have nothing to do with the birth plan - and it wasn’t your brothers call or anyones call but moms (yeah, unpopular opinion, but mom gets to decide where she gives birth and who is present because it’s her medical event not anyone else’s).

Say nothing at all about the birth, just find ways to be supportive that help the parents.

The baby's condition had everything to do with home birth. Over 37% of these births have issues, the things op described would not have happened in a hospital.

I'm a special educator. I have taught students with brain damage from anoxia due to the kind of birth trauma the OP describes. All of them were born in hospitals.

Virtually all babies are born in hospitals. Home births are like 1% of births.

Right my point was that PP was wrong that these things don't happen in hospitals, not that hospitals cause them.

[Anonymous]

OP as you can tell from this thread, they wouldn't have listened to you. I am so sorry about your niece. Of course being in a hospital doesn't mean scary things don't still happen, both my son's had trouble breathing at birth and it had nothing to do with the hospital or the birthing situation.

I will say I was tempted by a home birth and very much fell into the reading of all the natural birth stuff (and I had an unmedicated birth, so like I get it I do) but now my cousin is an OBGYN and the stories she tells of home birth transfers are truly terrifying. She would tell you it's not because home birth is inherently unsafe, of course not. It is wonderful for someone to be able to birth at home and in most cases it can be beautiful and result in a healthy baby and mom. But the issue is that our system in this country is not well set up to ensure the safety of everyone in a home birth situation like some other countries. The training of midwives is incredibly all over the place and not at all equal. Some midwives are amazing and have great training, others not so much but it's hard to differentiate in our system that doesn't have many standards. And there isn't a good system for transfer, and often when she receives transfers they are wayyy beyond when they should have come in. Way beyond. Total crisis and the midwives waited WAY too long. This may be because of lack of training or because there is such insistence on the birth experience being the primary goal. This is my biggest worry based on talking to her about home birth, I used to think well if there is an issue the midwife will call it and transfer in. But you have to truly trust that your midwife will make the call at the right time and it sounds like that is often not the case.

There is a reality that OBGYNs take a different risk assessment than some other birthing providers. This is true. Because to put it frankly, they are the ones that deal with the catastrophes. The babies that do not survive. Midwives step out when things really go awry (not necessarily because anyone did anything wrong, but because it happens), the OB is the one that steps in and is trained to handle that. So understandably their risk tolerance is different. i have found it fascinating to learn from my cousin living this every day. She explained it to me one time - when I assess risk, a live baby and mother is the number one goal, always. If five more women have to get xyz intervention so that ONE baby or one mother lives instead of dies, for me that is worth it. Because that one baby is someone's child (or mother) and their life is the MOST important. And it is worth some small interventions for a few that MAYBE we could have gotten through without, but in one of the instances the baby would have died. No, that's one baby one child - too many. That really struck me. And she is not very interventionist, has a very low c-section rate. We are all looking at ourselves individually and so focused on what is the perfect birthing experience for us, but at the end of the day every mom and baby walking out of that hospital or home has to be the goal. And we have to mitigate risk and make calls to do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP as you can tell from this thread, they wouldn't have listened to you. I am so sorry about your niece. Of course being in a hospital doesn't mean scary things don't still happen, both my son's had trouble breathing at birth and it had nothing to do with the hospital or the birthing situation.

I will say I was tempted by a home birth and very much fell into the reading of all the natural birth stuff (and I had an unmedicated birth, so like I get it I do) but now my cousin is an OBGYN and the stories she tells of home birth transfers are truly terrifying. She would tell you it's not because home birth is inherently unsafe, of course not. It is wonderful for someone to be able to birth at home and in most cases it can be beautiful and result in a healthy baby and mom. But the issue is that our system in this country is not well set up to ensure the safety of everyone in a home birth situation like some other countries. The training of midwives is incredibly all over the place and not at all equal. Some midwives are amazing and have great training, others not so much but it's hard to differentiate in our system that doesn't have many standards. And there isn't a good system for transfer, and often when she receives transfers they are wayyy beyond when they should have come in. Way beyond. Total crisis and the midwives waited WAY too long. This may be because of lack of training or because there is such insistence on the birth experience being the primary goal. This is my biggest worry based on talking to her about home birth, I used to think well if there is an issue the midwife will call it and transfer in. But you have to truly trust that your midwife will make the call at the right time and it sounds like that is often not the case.

There is a reality that OBGYNs take a different risk assessment than some other birthing providers. This is true. Because to put it frankly, they are the ones that deal with the catastrophes. The babies that do not survive. Midwives step out when things really go awry (not necessarily because anyone did anything wrong, but because it happens), the OB is the one that steps in and is trained to handle that. So understandably their risk tolerance is different. i have found it fascinating to learn from my cousin living this every day. She explained it to me one time - when I assess risk, a live baby and mother is the number one goal, always. If five more women have to get xyz intervention so that ONE baby or one mother lives instead of dies, for me that is worth it. Because that one baby is someone's child (or mother) and their life is the MOST important. And it is worth some small interventions for a few that MAYBE we could have gotten through without, but in one of the instances the baby would have died. No, that's one baby one child - too many. That really struck me. And she is not very interventionist, has a very low c-section rate. We are all looking at ourselves individually and so focused on what is the perfect birthing experience for us, but at the end of the day every mom and baby walking out of that hospital or home has to be the goal. And we have to mitigate risk and make calls to do that.

This is a very good, balanced take. I just want to add: OP, do not feel guilty. You couldn't have prevented the outcome and you might have ruined your relationship with your brother and SIL trying. For now, be kind to them and your baby niece. I hope she pulls through safely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP as you can tell from this thread, they wouldn't have listened to you. I am so sorry about your niece. Of course being in a hospital doesn't mean scary things don't still happen, both my son's had trouble breathing at birth and it had nothing to do with the hospital or the birthing situation.

I will say I was tempted by a home birth and very much fell into the reading of all the natural birth stuff (and I had an unmedicated birth, so like I get it I do) but now my cousin is an OBGYN and the stories she tells of home birth transfers are truly terrifying. She would tell you it's not because home birth is inherently unsafe, of course not. It is wonderful for someone to be able to birth at home and in most cases it can be beautiful and result in a healthy baby and mom. But the issue is that our system in this country is not well set up to ensure the safety of everyone in a home birth situation like some other countries. The training of midwives is incredibly all over the place and not at all equal. Some midwives are amazing and have great training, others not so much but it's hard to differentiate in our system that doesn't have many standards. And there isn't a good system for transfer, and often when she receives transfers they are wayyy beyond when they should have come in. Way beyond. Total crisis and the midwives waited WAY too long. This may be because of lack of training or because there is such insistence on the birth experience being the primary goal. This is my biggest worry based on talking to her about home birth, I used to think well if there is an issue the midwife will call it and transfer in. But you have to truly trust that your midwife will make the call at the right time and it sounds like that is often not the case.

There is a reality that OBGYNs take a different risk assessment than some other birthing providers. This is true. Because to put it frankly, they are the ones that deal with the catastrophes. The babies that do not survive. Midwives step out when things really go awry (not necessarily because anyone did anything wrong, but because it happens), the OB is the one that steps in and is trained to handle that. So understandably their risk tolerance is different. i have found it fascinating to learn from my cousin living this every day. She explained it to me one time - when I assess risk, a live baby and mother is the number one goal, always. If five more women have to get xyz intervention so that ONE baby or one mother lives instead of dies, for me that is worth it. Because that one baby is someone's child (or mother) and their life is the MOST important. And it is worth some small interventions for a few that MAYBE we could have gotten through without, but in one of the instances the baby would have died. No, that's one baby one child - too many. That really struck me. And she is not very interventionist, has a very low c-section rate. We are all looking at ourselves individually and so focused on what is the perfect birthing experience for us, but at the end of the day every mom and baby walking out of that hospital or home has to be the goal. And we have to mitigate risk and make calls to do that.

OP the very first sentence right here!

I hope that is something you got out of this thread.

Their choice and their cross to bear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The baby’s condition may have nothing to do with the birth plan - and it wasn’t your brothers call or anyones call but moms (yeah, unpopular opinion, but mom gets to decide where she gives birth and who is present because it’s her medical event not anyone else’s).

Say nothing at all about the birth, just find ways to be supportive that help the parents.

The baby's condition had everything to do with home birth. Over 37% of these births have issues, the things op described would not have happened in a hospital.

I'm a special educator. I have taught students with brain damage from anoxia due to the kind of birth trauma the OP describes. All of them were born in hospitals.

Virtually all babies are born in hospitals. Home births are like 1% of births.

Right my point was that PP was wrong that these things don't happen in hospitals, not that hospitals cause them.

Agree, but often the endless and unnecessary hospital interventions do actually cause problems.