Mixed feelings about not being more outspoken about brother’s homebirth plan

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The baby’s condition may have nothing to do with the birth plan - and it wasn’t your brothers call or anyones call but moms (yeah, unpopular opinion, but mom gets to decide where she gives birth and who is present because it’s her medical event not anyone else’s).

Say nothing at all about the birth, just find ways to be supportive that help the parents.

The baby's condition had everything to do with home birth. Over 37% of these births have issues, the things op described would not have happened in a hospital.

Why would anyone here tell such a blatant lie?

Trolls gotta troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When my brother told me he was having his child at home, I was naturally concerned. I have children and knew enough babies that had issues during the birth such as being stuck, severe bleeding, cord wrapped around it’s neck, etc. I didn’t want to overstep with my sister in law. The birth did not go well and the baby nearly didn’t survive. She will be in the NICU for a few months and is on a ventilator. I’m having guilt about not saying more at the time. Has anyone been in this situation? Or have the perspective of a parent who birthed at home? It’s not like I think they would have listened to me or anything but I don’t think they understood the risks since it was their first child.

I'm so sorry to hear about your niece. You were right to be concerned and you were also right to keep your opinions to yourself. Just be there for them because it sounds like they will need it. Prayers to your family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Homebirth has far fewer “routine” interventions. As a very healthy woman, I didn’t want hospital protocols constantly interfering with MY birthing process. It’s not like they allow you to refuse much of anything. I need to trust my attendants to actually hear and respect what I’m telling them. It’s my birth, not theirs. They don’t get to control me. Sorry.

Actually it’s your CHILD’s birth and your “attendants” are the medically trained experts, not you. Such classic narcissistic perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Homebirth has far fewer “routine” interventions. As a very healthy woman, I didn’t want hospital protocols constantly interfering with MY birthing process. It’s not like they allow you to refuse much of anything. I need to trust my attendants to actually hear and respect what I’m telling them. It’s my birth, not theirs. They don’t get to control me. Sorry.

Actually it’s your CHILD’s birth and your “attendants” are the medically trained experts, not you. Such classic narcissistic perspective.

This. I am as pro choice as they come but when the baby is being born, it’s THEIR birth and not yours. Do I think the mother should be able to elect to save her own life over the baby’s during her birth? YES. Before anyone argues me that point. But a mother saying she wants to have “her birth experience” be in a bathtub in her bedroom because it’s HER CHOICE I just can’t help but think how little she realizes that the baby doesn’t care about any of that, the baby just wants to be born alive and healthy.

[Anonymous]

Shut up. I’m fully anti- home birth, but way more against you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP as you can tell from this thread, they wouldn't have listened to you. I am so sorry about your niece. Of course being in a hospital doesn't mean scary things don't still happen, both my son's had trouble breathing at birth and it had nothing to do with the hospital or the birthing situation.

I will say I was tempted by a home birth and very much fell into the reading of all the natural birth stuff (and I had an unmedicated birth, so like I get it I do) but now my cousin is an OBGYN and the stories she tells of home birth transfers are truly terrifying. She would tell you it's not because home birth is inherently unsafe, of course not. It is wonderful for someone to be able to birth at home and in most cases it can be beautiful and result in a healthy baby and mom. But the issue is that our system in this country is not well set up to ensure the safety of everyone in a home birth situation like some other countries. The training of midwives is incredibly all over the place and not at all equal. Some midwives are amazing and have great training, others not so much but it's hard to differentiate in our system that doesn't have many standards. And there isn't a good system for transfer, and often when she receives transfers they are wayyy beyond when they should have come in. Way beyond. Total crisis and the midwives waited WAY too long. This may be because of lack of training or because there is such insistence on the birth experience being the primary goal. This is my biggest worry based on talking to her about home birth, I used to think well if there is an issue the midwife will call it and transfer in. But you have to truly trust that your midwife will make the call at the right time and it sounds like that is often not the case.

There is a reality that OBGYNs take a different risk assessment than some other birthing providers. This is true. Because to put it frankly, they are the ones that deal with the catastrophes. The babies that do not survive. Midwives step out when things really go awry (not necessarily because anyone did anything wrong, but because it happens), the OB is the one that steps in and is trained to handle that. So understandably their risk tolerance is different. i have found it fascinating to learn from my cousin living this every day. She explained it to me one time - when I assess risk, a live baby and mother is the number one goal, always. If five more women have to get xyz intervention so that ONE baby or one mother lives instead of dies, for me that is worth it. Because that one baby is someone's child (or mother) and their life is the MOST important. And it is worth some small interventions for a few that MAYBE we could have gotten through without, but in one of the instances the baby would have died. No, that's one baby one child - too many. That really struck me. And she is not very interventionist, has a very low c-section rate. We are all looking at ourselves individually and so focused on what is the perfect birthing experience for us, but at the end of the day every mom and baby walking out of that hospital or home has to be the goal. And we have to mitigate risk and make calls to do that.

This is a very good, balanced take. I just want to add: OP, do not feel guilty. You couldn't have prevented the outcome and you might have ruined your relationship with your brother and SIL trying. For now, be kind to them and your baby niece. I hope she pulls through safely.

+1 pp here I completely agree, do not have guilt. This truly could have been devastating to your relationship because they likely would have gone through with their plan because I'm sure they were very thoughtful in their decision (the problem is the information out there is somewhat flawed in my opinion) and if now something bad happened, and they knew you were against it it just adds even more guilt and complication in your relationship. Now you can be there for them fully and support them and your niece during this devastating event, home birth or not.

[Anonymous]

I'm so sorry about your niece. Obviously your brother and SIL are the core of this tragedy, but you should feel that it's okay to maybe seek some counseling over your own feelings of guilt, grief, and whatever else you are experiencing. It's easy enough to say "don't feel this way" but then you start to feel guilty about your feelings... etc. Better to just let them happen and find a way to process them rather than trying to tell yourself how to feel.

It sounds like you're taking the right approach- to your brother and SIL, supporting them and not sharing these thoughts. But it's okay for you to turn outward somewhere and seek support for yourself too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The outcome could have been exactly the same with a hospital birth. My oldest nearly died during childbirth and I had outstanding prenatal care and a hospital birth. Be grateful they were smart enough and calm enough to get the baby to the hospital.

This is such a dumb argument. “My sister drove without a seatbelt and now has severe injuries from a horrific car crash.”
“She could have had horrific injuries even if she was wearing a seatbelt.”
See how stupid that sounds? We all know wearing a seatbelt is much much safer.

Actually, it is your logic that doesn't make sense.

The lack of seatbelt either was or was not the reason for the injuries.
The homebirth either was or was not the reason for the outcome. And nothing in OP's post suggests that it was.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The outcome could have been exactly the same with a hospital birth. My oldest nearly died during childbirth and I had outstanding prenatal care and a hospital birth. Be grateful they were smart enough and calm enough to get the baby to the hospital.

This is such a dumb argument. “My sister drove without a seatbelt and now has severe injuries from a horrific car crash.”
“She could have had horrific injuries even if she was wearing a seatbelt.”
See how stupid that sounds? We all know wearing a seatbelt is much much safer.

Actually, it is your logic that doesn't make sense.

The lack of seatbelt either was or was not the reason for the injuries.
The homebirth either was or was not the reason for the outcome. And nothing in OP's post suggests that it was.

Go re-read it. "The birth did not go well and the baby nearly didn’t survive." This plus OP's guilt suggests that the home birth location did contribute to the complications.

Regardless, to OP: you wouldn't have changed their minds. Truly. I think you know that, which is why you did not say anything. Please never speak anything about your concerns to them or to anyone if it could get back to them. They are in enough pain, and clearly have learned their "lesson," if one can call it that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Homebirth has far fewer “routine” interventions. As a very healthy woman, I didn’t want hospital protocols constantly interfering with MY birthing process. It’s not like they allow you to refuse much of anything. I need to trust my attendants to actually hear and respect what I’m telling them. It’s my birth, not theirs. They don’t get to control me. Sorry.

Actually it’s your CHILD’s birth and your “attendants” are the medically trained experts, not you. Such classic narcissistic perspective.

What a crazy and wrong point of view you have. I'm not op or the prior poster but so many of our problems are caused by this very misogynistic view of women's health. Women want more control over their bodies and choices. The insane things the hospitals push can be out of hand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Homebirth has far fewer “routine” interventions. As a very healthy woman, I didn’t want hospital protocols constantly interfering with MY birthing process. It’s not like they allow you to refuse much of anything. I need to trust my attendants to actually hear and respect what I’m telling them. It’s my birth, not theirs. They don’t get to control me. Sorry.

Actually it’s your CHILD’s birth and your “attendants” are the medically trained experts, not you. Such classic narcissistic perspective.

What a crazy and wrong point of view you have. I'm not op or the prior poster but so many of our problems are caused by this very misogynistic view of women's health. Women want more control over their bodies and choices. The insane things the hospitals push can be out of hand.

DP. Yeah put me in the camp of wanting more babies to live 🤷‍♀️ You can take your wheatgrass shot and voodoo meditation after your baby makes it out alive.

[Anonymous]

You know, there are countries in Europe where home birth is the norm, and they have better outcomes than we do here. Of course, they have more built in support for it too so that is a factor. But home birth isn't some weird, out there wheat grass shot idea in many modern places in the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The baby’s condition may have nothing to do with the birth plan - and it wasn’t your brothers call or anyones call but moms (yeah, unpopular opinion, but mom gets to decide where she gives birth and who is present because it’s her medical event not anyone else’s).

Say nothing at all about the birth, just find ways to be supportive that help the parents.

The baby's condition had everything to do with home birth. Over 37% of these births have issues, the things op described would not have happened in a hospital.

I'm a special educator. I have taught students with brain damage from anoxia due to the kind of birth trauma the OP describes. All of them were born in hospitals.

You don’t understand statistics. You have no business teaching children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Homebirth has far fewer “routine” interventions. As a very healthy woman, I didn’t want hospital protocols constantly interfering with MY birthing process. It’s not like they allow you to refuse much of anything. I need to trust my attendants to actually hear and respect what I’m telling them. It’s my birth, not theirs. They don’t get to control me. Sorry.

Actually it’s your CHILD’s birth and your “attendants” are the medically trained experts, not you. Such classic narcissistic perspective.

What a crazy and wrong point of view you have. I'm not op or the prior poster but so many of our problems are caused by this very misogynistic view of women's health. Women want more control over their bodies and choices. The insane things the hospitals push can be out of hand.

DP. Yeah put me in the camp of wanting more babies to live 🤷‍♀️ You can take your wheatgrass shot and voodoo meditation after your baby makes it out alive.

Don’t forget the MLM essential oils!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: You know, there are countries in Europe where home birth is the norm, and they have better outcomes than we do here. Of course, they have more built in support for it too so that is a factor. But home birth isn't some weird, out there wheat grass shot idea in many modern places in the world.

What is up with this thread? Spouting so many lies. Not even misinformation, flat out lies. There is not a single European country where the majority of children born in the year 2023 are born in someone’s bathtub. Did you get hit in the head?