Student walkout

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of people who actually agree with the policy. Schools should never keep information about kids from parents.

Under his policy, parents cannot authorize the use of a different name or pronoun. They need to provide legal documents. Why do Republicans want the state to control everyone? Why did Youngkin say kids belong to their parents? Kids are not property. They have a right to have their own feelings especially when so many trans kids are rejected by their parents. Schools should be safe places for all kids. And what happened to limited government and local control? Fairfax voters did not vote for Youngkin - he lost by a lot here. Let localities decide.

How does this work? For example, if Robert wants to go by “Junior” or “JR” because that’s his nickname at home but not his birth name, his parents have to change it legally?

Not really cause it’s still a boy name.
But if he wanted to be called Roberta or something else then yes

So someone is going to determine what is a boy’s name vs a girl’s name. You won’t have to provide legal documentation to go by a completely different name that is determined to be of your gender.

Is that correct?

And what if you are cis gender female named Charlotte but your nickname has always been Charlie? Are you now not allowed to be called Charlie b/c that's a "boys name" and you are a girl??

Who is making the determinations? So in one class the teacher is like - hey, you can be Charlie here but another teacher can be noooo - you must be Charlotte? Or does the school admin decide? Or the county? Or the STATE?!

How do parents even provide legal documents on a nickname?? Is that a thing?

It's more common for boys to go by initials -- like TJ. But what about like the girl on Full House -- DJ? Would she be allowed to be called DJ (real character's name Donna Jo Margaret Tanner) or would she had to be called Donna Jo?

Why can't we just call a kid whatever they want to be called?? Heck my brother went through a phase where he wanted to be called Peter Parker.... really, was there any harm in that (well, unless he started trying to climb the classroom walls...)!

Any nickname derived from one of the student's official legal name does not need parental notification or involvment.

So Roberto can go as Roberta.

Charlotte can go by Charlie.

Catherine can go by Cat

Thomas James can go by TJ, Jimmy, Jim, Tom, etc.

Thomas James cannot go by Cecilia without his parents written permission that he sincerely idetifies as Cecilia. It is all in the 20 page written policy and proposed sample guidance.

You don't see the ridiculousness of all this? Teachers are supposed to keep track of all the possible variations on a students first, middle or last name? This is LUDICROUS. What is the point here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of people who actually agree with the policy. Schools should never keep information about kids from parents.

Under his policy, parents cannot authorize the use of a different name or pronoun. They need to provide legal documents. Why do Republicans want the state to control everyone? Why did Youngkin say kids belong to their parents? Kids are not property. They have a right to have their own feelings especially when so many trans kids are rejected by their parents. Schools should be safe places for all kids. And what happened to limited government and local control? Fairfax voters did not vote for Youngkin - he lost by a lot here. Let localities decide.

How does this work? For example, if Robert wants to go by “Junior” or “JR” because that’s his nickname at home but not his birth name, his parents have to change it legally?

Not really cause it’s still a boy name.
But if he wanted to be called Roberta or something else then yes

That seems like the kind of discrimination that will get you sued. If Mary can go by her nickname, but Joe can not be called Jane then the policy is no facially neutral.

This is what that section says: (see 2 and 4)

D. Identification of students:
1. Every effort should be made to ensure that a transgender student wishing to change his or her means of address is treated with respect, compassion, and dignity in the classroom and school environment.

2. [School Division] personnel shall refer to each student using only (i) the name that appears in the student’s official record, or (ii) if the student prefers, using any nickname commonly associated with the name that appears in the student’s official record.

3. [School Division] personnel shall refer to each student using only the pronouns appropriate to the sex appearing in the student’s official record - that is, male pronouns for a student whose legal sex is male, and female pronouns for a student whose legal sex is female.

4. Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraphs (2) and (3) of this section, [School Division] personnel shall refer to a student by a name other than one in the student’s official record, or by pronouns other than those appropriate to the sex appearing in the student’s official record, only if an eligible student or a student’s parent has instructed [School Division] in writing that such other name or other pronouns be used because of the student’s persistent and sincere belief that the student’s gender differs from his or her sex.

5. Any written instruction from a parent or eligible student under paragraph (4) of this section shall be memorialized in the student’s official record and subject to the same retention, disclosure, and confidentiality requirements as the official record itself. The legal name and sex of a student shall not be changed, even upon the written instruction of a parent or eligible student, except as specified in section (C)(2).

6. Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph (4) of this section, [School Division] shall not compel [School Division] personnel or other students to address or refer to students in any manner that would violate their constitutionally protected rights.

7. No policy, guidance, training, or other written material issued by the [School Division] may encourage or instruct teachers to conceal material information about a student from the student’s parent, including information related to gender.

There is zero need for this sort of policy or intrusion. Period. If a kid wants to be called he, she, they, Susie, Susan, Sam whatever . . . that should be respected. Of course there will be issues with the parents' wishes. There always are and can be worked out, as necessary, as they are now on any number of issues. At no time should a teacher be permitted to substitute his/her own preferences for that of the student. If they cannot do so, they shoudl not be in public school.

Kids can. See item 4. The child puts the request in writing. If they do this, item 6 is moot.

Item #4 is for students 18 and older. That is also defined in the 20 page document. Read the document. It should calm your fears. It is a good proposal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of people who actually agree with the policy. Schools should never keep information about kids from parents.

Under his policy, parents cannot authorize the use of a different name or pronoun. They need to provide legal documents. Why do Republicans want the state to control everyone? Why did Youngkin say kids belong to their parents? Kids are not property. They have a right to have their own feelings especially when so many trans kids are rejected by their parents. Schools should be safe places for all kids. And what happened to limited government and local control? Fairfax voters did not vote for Youngkin - he lost by a lot here. Let localities decide.

How does this work? For example, if Robert wants to go by “Junior” or “JR” because that’s his nickname at home but not his birth name, his parents have to change it legally?

Not really cause it’s still a boy name.
But if he wanted to be called Roberta or something else then yes

That seems like the kind of discrimination that will get you sued. If Mary can go by her nickname, but Joe can not be called Jane then the policy is no facially neutral.

This is what that section says: (see 2 and 4)

D. Identification of students:
1. Every effort should be made to ensure that a transgender student wishing to change his or her means of address is treated with respect, compassion, and dignity in the classroom and school environment.

2. [School Division] personnel shall refer to each student using only (i) the name that appears in the student’s official record, or (ii) if the student prefers, using any nickname commonly associated with the name that appears in the student’s official record.

3. [School Division] personnel shall refer to each student using only the pronouns appropriate to the sex appearing in the student’s official record - that is, male pronouns for a student whose legal sex is male, and female pronouns for a student whose legal sex is female.

4. Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraphs (2) and (3) of this section, [School Division] personnel shall refer to a student by a name other than one in the student’s official record, or by pronouns other than those appropriate to the sex appearing in the student’s official record, only if an eligible student or a student’s parent has instructed [School Division] in writing that such other name or other pronouns be used because of the student’s persistent and sincere belief that the student’s gender differs from his or her sex.

5. Any written instruction from a parent or eligible student under paragraph (4) of this section shall be memorialized in the student’s official record and subject to the same retention, disclosure, and confidentiality requirements as the official record itself. The legal name and sex of a student shall not be changed, even upon the written instruction of a parent or eligible student, except as specified in section (C)(2).

6. Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph (4) of this section, [School Division] shall not compel [School Division] personnel or other students to address or refer to students in any manner that would violate their constitutionally protected rights.

7. No policy, guidance, training, or other written material issued by the [School Division] may encourage or instruct teachers to conceal material information about a student from the student’s parent, including information related to gender.

There is zero need for this sort of policy or intrusion. Period. If a kid wants to be called he, she, they, Susie, Susan, Sam whatever . . . that should be respected. Of course there will be issues with the parents' wishes. There always are and can be worked out, as necessary, as they are now on any number of issues. At no time should a teacher be permitted to substitute his/her own preferences for that of the student. If they cannot do so, they shoudl not be in public school.

Are you aware that fcps decided this summer that a student or staff mamber accidentally using the wrong pronoun even once is a punishable offense, up to suspension for the student ?

Yes, this youngkin change was necessary. Fcps pushed to far on this issue.

The previous policy required schools to "reeducate" the families and develop a long term family plan if the parents did not completely affirm a kid identifying as trans. That is a tremendous overstep and intrusion of the schools into a parent's rights.

Cite and quote the policy where this is the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of people who actually agree with the policy. Schools should never keep information about kids from parents.

Under his policy, parents cannot authorize the use of a different name or pronoun. They need to provide legal documents. Why do Republicans want the state to control everyone? Why did Youngkin say kids belong to their parents? Kids are not property. They have a right to have their own feelings especially when so many trans kids are rejected by their parents. Schools should be safe places for all kids. And what happened to limited government and local control? Fairfax voters did not vote for Youngkin - he lost by a lot here. Let localities decide.

How does this work? For example, if Robert wants to go by “Junior” or “JR” because that’s his nickname at home but not his birth name, his parents have to change it legally?

Not really cause it’s still a boy name.
But if he wanted to be called Roberta or something else then yes

That seems like the kind of discrimination that will get you sued. If Mary can go by her nickname, but Joe can not be called Jane then the policy is no facially neutral.

This is what that section says: (see 2 and 4)

D. Identification of students:
1. Every effort should be made to ensure that a transgender student wishing to change his or her means of address is treated with respect, compassion, and dignity in the classroom and school environment.

2. [School Division] personnel shall refer to each student using only (i) the name that appears in the student’s official record, or (ii) if the student prefers, using any nickname commonly associated with the name that appears in the student’s official record.

3. [School Division] personnel shall refer to each student using only the pronouns appropriate to the sex appearing in the student’s official record - that is, male pronouns for a student whose legal sex is male, and female pronouns for a student whose legal sex is female.

4. Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraphs (2) and (3) of this section, [School Division] personnel shall refer to a student by a name other than one in the student’s official record, or by pronouns other than those appropriate to the sex appearing in the student’s official record, only if an eligible student or a student’s parent has instructed [School Division] in writing that such other name or other pronouns be used because of the student’s persistent and sincere belief that the student’s gender differs from his or her sex.

5. Any written instruction from a parent or eligible student under paragraph (4) of this section shall be memorialized in the student’s official record and subject to the same retention, disclosure, and confidentiality requirements as the official record itself. The legal name and sex of a student shall not be changed, even upon the written instruction of a parent or eligible student, except as specified in section (C)(2).

6. Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph (4) of this section, [School Division] shall not compel [School Division] personnel or other students to address or refer to students in any manner that would violate their constitutionally protected rights.

7. No policy, guidance, training, or other written material issued by the [School Division] may encourage or instruct teachers to conceal material information about a student from the student’s parent, including information related to gender.

There is zero need for this sort of policy or intrusion. Period. If a kid wants to be called he, she, they, Susie, Susan, Sam whatever . . . that should be respected. Of course there will be issues with the parents' wishes. There always are and can be worked out, as necessary, as they are now on any number of issues. At no time should a teacher be permitted to substitute his/her own preferences for that of the student. If they cannot do so, they shoudl not be in public school.

Kids can. See item 4. The child puts the request in writing. If they do this, item 6 is moot.

Item #4 is for students 18 and older. That is also defined in the 20 page document. Read the document. It should calm your fears. It is a good proposal.

It is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of people who actually agree with the policy. Schools should never keep information about kids from parents.

Under his policy, parents cannot authorize the use of a different name or pronoun. They need to provide legal documents. Why do Republicans want the state to control everyone? Why did Youngkin say kids belong to their parents? Kids are not property. They have a right to have their own feelings especially when so many trans kids are rejected by their parents. Schools should be safe places for all kids. And what happened to limited government and local control? Fairfax voters did not vote for Youngkin - he lost by a lot here. Let localities decide.

How does this work? For example, if Robert wants to go by “Junior” or “JR” because that’s his nickname at home but not his birth name, his parents have to change it legally?

Not really cause it’s still a boy name.
But if he wanted to be called Roberta or something else then yes

So someone is going to determine what is a boy’s name vs a girl’s name. You won’t have to provide legal documentation to go by a completely different name that is determined to be of your gender.

Is that correct?

And what if you are cis gender female named Charlotte but your nickname has always been Charlie? Are you now not allowed to be called Charlie b/c that's a "boys name" and you are a girl??

Who is making the determinations? So in one class the teacher is like - hey, you can be Charlie here but another teacher can be noooo - you must be Charlotte? Or does the school admin decide? Or the county? Or the STATE?!

How do parents even provide legal documents on a nickname?? Is that a thing?

It's more common for boys to go by initials -- like TJ. But what about like the girl on Full House -- DJ? Would she be allowed to be called DJ (real character's name Donna Jo Margaret Tanner) or would she had to be called Donna Jo?

Why can't we just call a kid whatever they want to be called?? Heck my brother went through a phase where he wanted to be called Peter Parker.... really, was there any harm in that (well, unless he started trying to climb the classroom walls...)!

Any nickname derived from one of the student's official legal name does not need parental notification or involvment.

So Roberto can go as Roberta.

Charlotte can go by Charlie.

Catherine can go by Cat

Thomas James can go by TJ, Jimmy, Jim, Tom, etc.

Thomas James cannot go by Cecilia without his parents written permission that he sincerely idetifies as Cecilia. It is all in the 20 page written policy and proposed sample guidance.

You don't see the ridiculousness of all this? Teachers are supposed to keep track of all the possible variations on a students first, middle or last name? This is LUDICROUS. What is the point here?

Teachers are already having to keep track of daily name changes, daily pronoun changes, names that don't match anyones offical legal names, which kids need to have their names hidden from their parents, whether a kid is going to doxx them online for using the wrong pronoun or yesterdays pronoun, made up pronouns, whether mom can hear the trans name but dad needs it hidden, etc etc

This policy change is MUCH simpler for teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of people who actually agree with the policy. Schools should never keep information about kids from parents.

Not lots. That’s a fringe perspective.

Nope. It's actually the majority, silent or not. Which is why Youngkin won the election.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of people who actually agree with the policy. Schools should never keep information about kids from parents.

Under his policy, parents cannot authorize the use of a different name or pronoun. They need to provide legal documents. Why do Republicans want the state to control everyone? Why did Youngkin say kids belong to their parents? Kids are not property. They have a right to have their own feelings especially when so many trans kids are rejected by their parents. Schools should be safe places for all kids. And what happened to limited government and local control? Fairfax voters did not vote for Youngkin - he lost by a lot here. Let localities decide.

You have not read the policy.

Parents just need to send in a note to authorize a different name.

That is memorialized in a student's record.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of people who actually agree with the policy. Schools should never keep information about kids from parents.

Under his policy, parents cannot authorize the use of a different name or pronoun. They need to provide legal documents. Why do Republicans want the state to control everyone? Why did Youngkin say kids belong to their parents? Kids are not property. They have a right to have their own feelings especially when so many trans kids are rejected by their parents. Schools should be safe places for all kids. And what happened to limited government and local control? Fairfax voters did not vote for Youngkin - he lost by a lot here. Let localities decide.

How does this work? For example, if Robert wants to go by “Junior” or “JR” because that’s his nickname at home but not his birth name, his parents have to change it legally?

Not really cause it’s still a boy name.
But if he wanted to be called Roberta or something else then yes

So someone is going to determine what is a boy’s name vs a girl’s name. You won’t have to provide legal documentation to go by a completely different name that is determined to be of your gender.

Is that correct?

And what if you are cis gender female named Charlotte but your nickname has always been Charlie? Are you now not allowed to be called Charlie b/c that's a "boys name" and you are a girl??

Who is making the determinations? So in one class the teacher is like - hey, you can be Charlie here but another teacher can be noooo - you must be Charlotte? Or does the school admin decide? Or the county? Or the STATE?!

How do parents even provide legal documents on a nickname?? Is that a thing?

It's more common for boys to go by initials -- like TJ. But what about like the girl on Full House -- DJ? Would she be allowed to be called DJ (real character's name Donna Jo Margaret Tanner) or would she had to be called Donna Jo?

Why can't we just call a kid whatever they want to be called?? Heck my brother went through a phase where he wanted to be called Peter Parker.... really, was there any harm in that (well, unless he started trying to climb the classroom walls...)!

Any nickname derived from one of the student's official legal name does not need parental notification or involvment.

So Roberto can go as Roberta.

Charlotte can go by Charlie.

Catherine can go by Cat

Thomas James can go by TJ, Jimmy, Jim, Tom, etc.

Thomas James cannot go by Cecilia without his parents written permission that he sincerely idetifies as Cecilia. It is all in the 20 page written policy and proposed sample guidance.

You don't see the ridiculousness of all this? Teachers are supposed to keep track of all the possible variations on a students first, middle or last name? This is LUDICROUS. What is the point here?

Teachers are already having to keep track of daily name changes, daily pronoun changes, names that don't match anyones offical legal names, which kids need to have their names hidden from their parents, whether a kid is going to doxx them online for using the wrong pronoun or yesterdays pronoun, made up pronouns, whether mom can hear the trans name but dad needs it hidden, etc etc

This policy change is MUCH simpler for teachers.

No, teachers did not have to keep up with daily name/pronoun changes. They rarely use anyone's pronouns--you don't need to in most cases and that's what teachers do. This is a caricature. Kids may say whatever they want about their identities, but the past policy was that teachers only need to use the name chosen by a transgender student if it is changed on the official record. Anything else was teacher preference. If a kid doxxed a teacher on line for "dead-naming" them---just like they could for assigning too much homework, being mean, being "hot" any reason, it is a violation of the rules that they could be punished for. So this is STILL a whole bunch of nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of people who actually agree with the policy. Schools should never keep information about kids from parents.

Under his policy, parents cannot authorize the use of a different name or pronoun. They need to provide legal documents. Why do Republicans want the state to control everyone? Why did Youngkin say kids belong to their parents? Kids are not property. They have a right to have their own feelings especially when so many trans kids are rejected by their parents. Schools should be safe places for all kids. And what happened to limited government and local control? Fairfax voters did not vote for Youngkin - he lost by a lot here. Let localities decide.

You have not read the policy.

Parents just need to send in a note to authorize a different name.

That is memorialized in a student's record.

And that "just a note" is a parent affirmation that the gender change is sincere and long-lasting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers shouldn’t be in the business of helping kids change their identities to the opposite sex. Period.

Teachers shouldn't be in the business of tattling on students when the kids are clearly hiding it from their parents.

It is none of the parents’ business what goes on between students and their teachers.

Now that’s a bunch of bs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of people who actually agree with the policy. Schools should never keep information about kids from parents.

Not lots. That’s a fringe perspective.

Nope. It's actually the majority, silent or not. Which is why Youngkin won the election.

+1 Amen. So glad to have some normalcy returning finally!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of people who actually agree with the policy. Schools should never keep information about kids from parents.

Under his policy, parents cannot authorize the use of a different name or pronoun. They need to provide legal documents. Why do Republicans want the state to control everyone? Why did Youngkin say kids belong to their parents? Kids are not property. They have a right to have their own feelings especially when so many trans kids are rejected by their parents. Schools should be safe places for all kids. And what happened to limited government and local control? Fairfax voters did not vote for Youngkin - he lost by a lot here. Let localities decide.

How does this work? For example, if Robert wants to go by “Junior” or “JR” because that’s his nickname at home but not his birth name, his parents have to change it legally?

Not really cause it’s still a boy name.
But if he wanted to be called Roberta or something else then yes

So someone is going to determine what is a boy’s name vs a girl’s name. You won’t have to provide legal documentation to go by a completely different name that is determined to be of your gender.

Is that correct?

And what if you are cis gender female named Charlotte but your nickname has always been Charlie? Are you now not allowed to be called Charlie b/c that's a "boys name" and you are a girl??

Who is making the determinations? So in one class the teacher is like - hey, you can be Charlie here but another teacher can be noooo - you must be Charlotte? Or does the school admin decide? Or the county? Or the STATE?!

How do parents even provide legal documents on a nickname?? Is that a thing?

It's more common for boys to go by initials -- like TJ. But what about like the girl on Full House -- DJ? Would she be allowed to be called DJ (real character's name Donna Jo Margaret Tanner) or would she had to be called Donna Jo?

Why can't we just call a kid whatever they want to be called?? Heck my brother went through a phase where he wanted to be called Peter Parker.... really, was there any harm in that (well, unless he started trying to climb the classroom walls...)!

Any nickname derived from one of the student's official legal name does not need parental notification or involvment.

So Roberto can go as Roberta.

Charlotte can go by Charlie.

Catherine can go by Cat

Thomas James can go by TJ, Jimmy, Jim, Tom, etc.

Thomas James cannot go by Cecilia without his parents written permission that he sincerely idetifies as Cecilia. It is all in the 20 page written policy and proposed sample guidance.

You don't see the ridiculousness of all this? Teachers are supposed to keep track of all the possible variations on a students first, middle or last name? This is LUDICROUS. What is the point here?

Teachers are already having to keep track of daily name changes, daily pronoun changes, names that don't match anyones offical legal names, which kids need to have their names hidden from their parents, whether a kid is going to doxx them online for using the wrong pronoun or yesterdays pronoun, made up pronouns, whether mom can hear the trans name but dad needs it hidden, etc etc

This policy change is MUCH simpler for teachers.

+1 yep. Very simple.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of people who actually agree with the policy. Schools should never keep information about kids from parents.

Not lots. That’s a fringe perspective.

Nope. It's actually the majority, silent or not. Which is why Youngkin won the election.

He lost Fairfax by a lot and won the state by a little. The man has no mandate and certainly has no mandate in Fairfax. He needs to keep his political aspirations out of our local schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of people who actually agree with the policy. Schools should never keep information about kids from parents.

Not lots. That’s a fringe perspective.

Nope. It's actually the majority, silent or not. Which is why Youngkin won the election.

He lost Fairfax by a lot and won the state by a little. The man has no mandate and certainly has no mandate in Fairfax. He needs to keep his political aspirations out of our local schools.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of people who actually agree with the policy. Schools should never keep information about kids from parents.

Many teachers support this new policy over the old policy.

And you know this how? From some official survey I'm sure.