Student walkout

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What rights, specifically, does Youngkin's policy seek to restrict?

Are you reading this thread? People have posted sections.

Start on page 16.

https://doe.virginia.gov/support/gender-diversity/2022-model-policies-on-the-privacy-dignity-and-respect-for-all-students-town-hall.pdf

Here are a few:

- ability to be called the names and pronouns of their choice without it going on their permanent record.

- use of bathrooms that align with the gender they identify with (though not enforceable right now due to Grimm federal case outcome

- athletics restrictions.

These are not "rights".

Right to privacy.

[Anonymous]

FCPS should provide mental health support to trans kids as a result of this. Kids should be allowed to decide how they're referred to by others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What rights, specifically, does Youngkin's policy seek to restrict?

Are you reading this thread? People have posted sections.

Start on page 16.

https://doe.virginia.gov/support/gender-diversity/2022-model-policies-on-the-privacy-dignity-and-respect-for-all-students-town-hall.pdf

Here are a few:

- ability to be called the names and pronouns of their choice without it going on their permanent record.

- use of bathrooms that align with the gender they identify with (though not enforceable right now due to Grimm federal case outcome

- athletics restrictions.

These are not "rights".

All children in Virginia have a right to learn, free from unlawful discrimination and harassment. His proposed model obliterates this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately our predominantly Hispanic and Muslim school is very much anti LGBTQ. Wish some kids there would walk out.

What are you doing there then?

It's probably their local public school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What rights, specifically, does Youngkin's policy seek to restrict?

Are you reading this thread? People have posted sections.

Start on page 16.

https://doe.virginia.gov/support/gender-diversity/2022-model-policies-on-the-privacy-dignity-and-respect-for-all-students-town-hall.pdf

Here are a few:

- ability to be called the names and pronouns of their choice without it going on their permanent record.

- use of bathrooms that align with the gender they identify with (though not enforceable right now due to Grimm federal case outcome

- athletics restrictions.

These are not "rights".

All children in Virginia have a right to learn, free from unlawful discrimination and harassment. His proposed model obliterates this.

Nobody should be harassed, but I fail to see where the unlawful discrimination is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What rights, specifically, does Youngkin's policy seek to restrict?

Are you reading this thread? People have posted sections.

Start on page 16.

https://doe.virginia.gov/support/gender-diversity/2022-model-policies-on-the-privacy-dignity-and-respect-for-all-students-town-hall.pdf

Here are a few:

- ability to be called the names and pronouns of their choice without it going on their permanent record.

- use of bathrooms that align with the gender they identify with (though not enforceable right now due to Grimm federal case outcome

- athletics restrictions.

These are not "rights".

All children in Virginia have a right to learn, free from unlawful discrimination and harassment. His proposed model obliterates this.

Nobody should be harassed, but I fail to see where the unlawful discrimination is.

It specifically puts parents of kids who identify as transgender in a bind--they either have to affirm their belief that their child's gender identification is "long-lasting" and put that on a permanent record or their child is no longer able to express their preferred identity at school. I'm not a lawyer so I don't know the specifics about rights, but it's an especially a$$hole move for Youngkin and his supporters to do this to parents and children who are already trying to work through a confusing situation and then pretend it's about "parent's rights".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of people who actually agree with the policy. Schools should never keep information about kids from parents.

Under his policy, parents cannot authorize the use of a different name or pronoun. They need to provide legal documents. Why do Republicans want the state to control everyone? Why did Youngkin say kids belong to their parents? Kids are not property. They have a right to have their own feelings especially when so many trans kids are rejected by their parents. Schools should be safe places for all kids. And what happened to limited government and local control? Fairfax voters did not vote for Youngkin - he lost by a lot here. Let localities decide.

How does this work? For example, if Robert wants to go by “Junior” or “JR” because that’s his nickname at home but not his birth name, his parents have to change it legally?

Not really cause it’s still a boy name.
But if he wanted to be called Roberta or something else then yes

That seems like the kind of discrimination that will get you sued. If Mary can go by her nickname, but Joe can not be called Jane then the policy is no facially neutral.

This is what that section says: (see 2 and 4)

D. Identification of students:
1. Every effort should be made to ensure that a transgender student wishing to change his or her means of address is treated with respect, compassion, and dignity in the classroom and school environment.

2. [School Division] personnel shall refer to each student using only (i) the name that appears in the student’s official record, or (ii) if the student prefers, using any nickname commonly associated with the name that appears in the student’s official record.

3. [School Division] personnel shall refer to each student using only the pronouns appropriate to the sex appearing in the student’s official record - that is, male pronouns for a student whose legal sex is male, and female pronouns for a student whose legal sex is female.

4. Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraphs (2) and (3) of this section, [School Division] personnel shall refer to a student by a name other than one in the student’s official record, or by pronouns other than those appropriate to the sex appearing in the student’s official record, only if an eligible student or a student’s parent has instructed [School Division] in writing that such other name or other pronouns be used because of the student’s persistent and sincere belief that the student’s gender differs from his or her sex.

5. Any written instruction from a parent or eligible student under paragraph (4) of this section shall be memorialized in the student’s official record and subject to the same retention, disclosure, and confidentiality requirements as the official record itself. The legal name and sex of a student shall not be changed, even upon the written instruction of a parent or eligible student, except as specified in section (C)(2).

6. Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph (4) of this section, [School Division] shall not compel [School Division] personnel or other students to address or refer to students in any manner that would violate their constitutionally protected rights.

7. No policy, guidance, training, or other written material issued by the [School Division] may encourage or instruct teachers to conceal material information about a student from the student’s parent, including information related to gender.

There is zero need for this sort of policy or intrusion. Period. If a kid wants to be called he, she, they, Susie, Susan, Sam whatever . . . that should be respected. Of course there will be issues with the parents' wishes. There always are and can be worked out, as necessary, as they are now on any number of issues. At no time should a teacher be permitted to substitute his/her own preferences for that of the student. If they cannot do so, they shoudl not be in public school.

Kids can. See item 4. The child puts the request in writing. If they do this, item 6 is moot.

And my point is, this is not something that needs to be memorialized or documents. Act like a f'ing human being, will you?

In order to affect change, you need to clearly argue against what he is actually saying. Emotional outbursts without supporting analysis isn’t helpful in the long run. You said if a kid wants to be called x y or z, they should be able to be called x y or z. The point is, they CAN be. What you need to argue is that they should be able to do so without it being added to their permanent record. Republicans will tear you apart about how you are not reading the entire thing and take the focus away from the issues if you aren’t specific in your points.

+1 I think this is important advice. But basically why do we need this whole long numbered policy when the easy route is if you are insisting your child not be called by a teacher any name other than their birthname, you should have to write that in and teachers have to notify your child that they will follow that. End of story. Don't put the burden on the teachers to report kids who want to be called something different. Don't put the burden on parents to have to 'out' their kids who are experimenting with gender identity in a permanent way.

But Youngkin's long-winded policy document is really meant to rile people up about transgender issues. Because some of his supporters don't just want control over their own kids, they want control over other people's kids too. They don't like that there are a bunch of kids at school who are experimenting with gender identities. They don't like that those want to read books where they see themselves represented and their parents want to let them read those books. They don't like how other people are parenting and they want to exert some control. It's the exact opposite of parent's rights--they want their view of parenting to prevail over other people's views on parenting at school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers shouldn’t be in the business of helping kids change their identities to the opposite sex. Period.

Teachers shouldn't be in the business of tattling on students when the kids are clearly hiding it from their parents.

It is none of the parents’ business what goes on between students and their teachers.

Right wing troll pretending to hold what they think of as a liberal perspective to stir the pot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of people who actually agree with the policy. Schools should never keep information about kids from parents.

Many teachers support this new policy over the old policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of people who actually agree with the policy. Schools should never keep information about kids from parents.

Under his policy, parents cannot authorize the use of a different name or pronoun. They need to provide legal documents. Why do Republicans want the state to control everyone? Why did Youngkin say kids belong to their parents? Kids are not property. They have a right to have their own feelings especially when so many trans kids are rejected by their parents. Schools should be safe places for all kids. And what happened to limited government and local control? Fairfax voters did not vote for Youngkin - he lost by a lot here. Let localities decide.

You have not read the policy.

Parents just need to send in a note to authorize a different name.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of people who actually agree with the policy. Schools should never keep information about kids from parents.

Under his policy, parents cannot authorize the use of a different name or pronoun. They need to provide legal documents. Why do Republicans want the state to control everyone? Why did Youngkin say kids belong to their parents? Kids are not property. They have a right to have their own feelings especially when so many trans kids are rejected by their parents. Schools should be safe places for all kids. And what happened to limited government and local control? Fairfax voters did not vote for Youngkin - he lost by a lot here. Let localities decide.

How does this work? For example, if Robert wants to go by “Junior” or “JR” because that’s his nickname at home but not his birth name, his parents have to change it legally?

Read the 20 pages.

Nicknames derived from their full legal name do not need a parent notification or signature.

The only thing that jeeds a parent signature is a name that is not derived from their first, middle or last name. Legal records such as diplomas must match their legal name.

Please read the entire document including the sample guidance, instead of relying on social media and headlines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of people who actually agree with the policy. Schools should never keep information about kids from parents.

Under his policy, parents cannot authorize the use of a different name or pronoun. They need to provide legal documents. Why do Republicans want the state to control everyone? Why did Youngkin say kids belong to their parents? Kids are not property. They have a right to have their own feelings especially when so many trans kids are rejected by their parents. Schools should be safe places for all kids. And what happened to limited government and local control? Fairfax voters did not vote for Youngkin - he lost by a lot here. Let localities decide.

How does this work? For example, if Robert wants to go by “Junior” or “JR” because that’s his nickname at home but not his birth name, his parents have to change it legally?

Not really cause it’s still a boy name.
But if he wanted to be called Roberta or something else then yes

So someone is going to determine what is a boy’s name vs a girl’s name. You won’t have to provide legal documentation to go by a completely different name that is determined to be of your gender.

Is that correct?

And what if you are cis gender female named Charlotte but your nickname has always been Charlie? Are you now not allowed to be called Charlie b/c that's a "boys name" and you are a girl??

Who is making the determinations? So in one class the teacher is like - hey, you can be Charlie here but another teacher can be noooo - you must be Charlotte? Or does the school admin decide? Or the county? Or the STATE?!

How do parents even provide legal documents on a nickname?? Is that a thing?

It's more common for boys to go by initials -- like TJ. But what about like the girl on Full House -- DJ? Would she be allowed to be called DJ (real character's name Donna Jo Margaret Tanner) or would she had to be called Donna Jo?

Why can't we just call a kid whatever they want to be called?? Heck my brother went through a phase where he wanted to be called Peter Parker.... really, was there any harm in that (well, unless he started trying to climb the classroom walls...)!

Any nickname derived from one of the student's official legal name does not need parental notification or involvment.

So Roberto can go as Roberta.

Charlotte can go by Charlie.

Catherine can go by Cat

Thomas James can go by TJ, Jimmy, Jim, Tom, etc.

Thomas James cannot go by Cecilia without his parents written permission that he sincerely idetifies as Cecilia. It is all in the 20 page written policy and proposed sample guidance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The policy is an abomination. That being said, a walkout is not going to do anything to change it. I understand why the kids want to do it, but it'll be futile.

Have you read the policy?

Have you read the previous policy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of people who actually agree with the policy. Schools should never keep information about kids from parents.

Under his policy, parents cannot authorize the use of a different name or pronoun. They need to provide legal documents. Why do Republicans want the state to control everyone? Why did Youngkin say kids belong to their parents? Kids are not property. They have a right to have their own feelings especially when so many trans kids are rejected by their parents. Schools should be safe places for all kids. And what happened to limited government and local control? Fairfax voters did not vote for Youngkin - he lost by a lot here. Let localities decide.

How does this work? For example, if Robert wants to go by “Junior” or “JR” because that’s his nickname at home but not his birth name, his parents have to change it legally?

Read the 20 pages.

Nicknames derived from their full legal name do not need a parent notification or signature.

The only thing that jeeds a parent signature is a name that is not derived from their first, middle or last name. Legal records such as diplomas must match their legal name.

Please read the entire document including the sample guidance, instead of relying on social media and headlines.

So answer me this, person who insists we all learn legalese and trust we're correctly interpreting the policy here: What does this policy do that wouldn't be served by allowing parents who don't want their kids being called a name other than their birthname writing in and having that followed? Why do we need all this crap when just that would protect their rights?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of people who actually agree with the policy. Schools should never keep information about kids from parents.

Under his policy, parents cannot authorize the use of a different name or pronoun. They need to provide legal documents. Why do Republicans want the state to control everyone? Why did Youngkin say kids belong to their parents? Kids are not property. They have a right to have their own feelings especially when so many trans kids are rejected by their parents. Schools should be safe places for all kids. And what happened to limited government and local control? Fairfax voters did not vote for Youngkin - he lost by a lot here. Let localities decide.

How does this work? For example, if Robert wants to go by “Junior” or “JR” because that’s his nickname at home but not his birth name, his parents have to change it legally?

Not really cause it’s still a boy name.
But if he wanted to be called Roberta or something else then yes

That seems like the kind of discrimination that will get you sued. If Mary can go by her nickname, but Joe can not be called Jane then the policy is no facially neutral.

This is what that section says: (see 2 and 4)

D. Identification of students:
1. Every effort should be made to ensure that a transgender student wishing to change his or her means of address is treated with respect, compassion, and dignity in the classroom and school environment.

2. [School Division] personnel shall refer to each student using only (i) the name that appears in the student’s official record, or (ii) if the student prefers, using any nickname commonly associated with the name that appears in the student’s official record.

3. [School Division] personnel shall refer to each student using only the pronouns appropriate to the sex appearing in the student’s official record - that is, male pronouns for a student whose legal sex is male, and female pronouns for a student whose legal sex is female.

4. Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraphs (2) and (3) of this section, [School Division] personnel shall refer to a student by a name other than one in the student’s official record, or by pronouns other than those appropriate to the sex appearing in the student’s official record, only if an eligible student or a student’s parent has instructed [School Division] in writing that such other name or other pronouns be used because of the student’s persistent and sincere belief that the student’s gender differs from his or her sex.

5. Any written instruction from a parent or eligible student under paragraph (4) of this section shall be memorialized in the student’s official record and subject to the same retention, disclosure, and confidentiality requirements as the official record itself. The legal name and sex of a student shall not be changed, even upon the written instruction of a parent or eligible student, except as specified in section (C)(2).

6. Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph (4) of this section, [School Division] shall not compel [School Division] personnel or other students to address or refer to students in any manner that would violate their constitutionally protected rights.

7. No policy, guidance, training, or other written material issued by the [School Division] may encourage or instruct teachers to conceal material information about a student from the student’s parent, including information related to gender.

There is zero need for this sort of policy or intrusion. Period. If a kid wants to be called he, she, they, Susie, Susan, Sam whatever . . . that should be respected. Of course there will be issues with the parents' wishes. There always are and can be worked out, as necessary, as they are now on any number of issues. At no time should a teacher be permitted to substitute his/her own preferences for that of the student. If they cannot do so, they shoudl not be in public school.

Are you aware that fcps decided this summer that a student or staff mamber accidentally using the wrong pronoun even once is a punishable offense, up to suspension for the student ?

Yes, this youngkin change was necessary. Fcps pushed to far on this issue.

The previous policy required schools to "reeducate" the families and develop a long term family plan if the parents did not completely affirm a kid identifying as trans. That is a tremendous overstep and intrusion of the schools into a parent's rights.