Apple river tubing killing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From NYT article:

Mr. Miu — described in the complaint as “an older male” with gray hair, weighing approximately 250 pounds — was captured on video running toward a group shirtless and carrying a snorkel, according to the documents. In the video, the group can be heard telling him to “get away,” according to the documents.
According to interviews with witnesses and victims, Mr. Miu was “bothering a group of juveniles on their tubes.” Members of this group “were yelling for help from other individuals floating down the river nearby,” according to the documents.

Witnesses said that a group of people came and stood between Mr. Miu and the juveniles and told him to leave. They also said that he punched or slapped a woman in the second group who was confronting him. According to the witnesses, Mr. Miu was then punched by a man and fell into the river, documents say.

Mr. Miu then began “stabbing multiple individuals who were near him,” according to the complaint. They described the knife as having a three-inch silver blade. After the stabbing, “there was enough blood in the river that the water turned a red tint in places,” court documents say.

WOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW, what do you defenders have to say for yourselves now?

I'd say you're quoting the same organization that libeled the Duke lacrosse players and the Covington Catholic kids. Had Mui been black they'd be calling him a hero fighting off white supremacists. Fact.

True this. Let's also add Rittenhouse who just won millions in a defamation by media suit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So he approached them. If he thought they had it then the snorkel part gets creepier. Was he staring at them underwater trying to spot it? Grabbing onto a tube where he thought a person was hiding it? As an engineer what made him think the phone was there?

it's to reasonable to ask whether someone had found a phone? The teens were drunk. Their minds were altered

I never said it wasn’t reasonable for him to ask. But if they said no and then he got up in their space and was touching their tubes and not leaving them alone after they asked him to be left alone, he was essentially saying, “I don’t believe you, and I’m searching.” At that point, he goes from dude asking about a phone into space-invading creeper guy, 100%. And ring-a-ding-ding, turns out he IS a crazy creeper guy, what with being a murderer who stabbed three other people to the point that two had to be *airlifted* to the hospital, the other two rushed to the hospital. Intestines hanging out of bodies, organs exposed. A teen life over, others severely injured, and then he tries to flee.

He will be convicted. 100% he will be convicted, and while his sentence might be somewhat lenient given all the circumstances, he will absolutely serve jail time. I’ll see you all back here in a few months to tell you I told you so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From NYT article:

Mr. Miu — described in the complaint as “an older male” with gray hair, weighing approximately 250 pounds — was captured on video running toward a group shirtless and carrying a snorkel, according to the documents. In the video, the group can be heard telling him to “get away,” according to the documents.
According to interviews with witnesses and victims, Mr. Miu was “bothering a group of juveniles on their tubes.” Members of this group “were yelling for help from other individuals floating down the river nearby,” according to the documents.

Witnesses said that a group of people came and stood between Mr. Miu and the juveniles and told him to leave. They also said that he punched or slapped a woman in the second group who was confronting him. According to the witnesses, Mr. Miu was then punched by a man and fell into the river, documents say.

Mr. Miu then began “stabbing multiple individuals who were near him,” according to the complaint. They described the knife as having a three-inch silver blade. After the stabbing, “there was enough blood in the river that the water turned a red tint in places,” court documents say.

WOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW, what do you defenders have to say for yourselves now?

I'd say you're quoting the same organization that libeled the Duke lacrosse players and the Covington Catholic kids. Had Mui been black they'd be calling him a hero fighting off white supremacists. Fact.

True this. Let's also add Rittenhouse who just won millions in a defamation by media suit.

The Covington Catholic kid doesn't belong on the list. Or maybe he's illustrative...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From NYT article:

Mr. Miu — described in the complaint as “an older male” with gray hair, weighing approximately 250 pounds — was captured on video running toward a group shirtless and carrying a snorkel, according to the documents. In the video, the group can be heard telling him to “get away,” according to the documents.
According to interviews with witnesses and victims, Mr. Miu was “bothering a group of juveniles on their tubes.” Members of this group “were yelling for help from other individuals floating down the river nearby,” according to the documents.

Witnesses said that a group of people came and stood between Mr. Miu and the juveniles and told him to leave. They also said that he punched or slapped a woman in the second group who was confronting him. According to the witnesses, Mr. Miu was then punched by a man and fell into the river, documents say.

Mr. Miu then began “stabbing multiple individuals who were near him,” according to the complaint. They described the knife as having a three-inch silver blade. After the stabbing, “there was enough blood in the river that the water turned a red tint in places,” court documents say.

WOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW, what do you defenders have to say for yourselves now?

I'd say you're quoting the same organization that libeled the Duke lacrosse players and the Covington Catholic kids. Had Mui been black they'd be calling him a hero fighting off white supremacists. Fact.

True this. Let's also add Rittenhouse who just won millions in a defamation by media suit.

He did? I'm pretty sure that hasn't happened yet.

I also don't think the NYT is losing a defamation case for accurately reporting the contents of a criminal complaint.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:


He was under no obligation to leave. He wanted to keep looking for the phone. They didn’t have to surround him, continue to harrass him, and start a physical altercation first.


Never said they were justified in doing what they did. What I did say was—in any escalating, dangerous situation—YOU LEAVE. And he had the opportunity to do so. Now a teen is dead, and he will go to jail for life or will have some other significant sentence. He will be separated from his family. He will pay exorbitant legal fees. He will think about this every day for the rest of his life. And a teen is dead. If that was your teenage son or daughter, would you have wanted this guy to “stand his ground”? You walk away. Period.

You teach your kid that if they ever act like these kids did then they will deserve anything coming to them, and that behavior like that can and does get you killed. I have no sympathy for the teen. I have a lot for the harrassed 52 yo. I'd never convict him either.

[Anonymous]

All of this is very sad.

We are all just guessing at what really occurred.

If it goes to trial, there may be jury nullification.

My best guess is that a plea deal will be reached for 10 to 15 years and he might be out in 7 years depending upon state law.

Folks need to learn to keep their mouths shut. Too many weapons & too many foul mouthed jerks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


He was under no obligation to leave. He wanted to keep looking for the phone. They didn’t have to surround him, continue to harrass him, and start a physical altercation first.


Never said they were justified in doing what they did. What I did say was—in any escalating, dangerous situation—YOU LEAVE. And he had the opportunity to do so. Now a teen is dead, and he will go to jail for life or will have some other significant sentence. He will be separated from his family. He will pay exorbitant legal fees. He will think about this every day for the rest of his life. And a teen is dead. If that was your teenage son or daughter, would you have wanted this guy to “stand his ground”? You walk away. Period.

You teach your kid that if they ever act like these kids did then they will deserve anything coming to them, and that behavior like that can and does get you killed. I have no sympathy for the teen. I have a lot for the harrassed 52 yo. I'd never convict him either.

He left the scene. Case closed.

Innocent people don’t kill others and then hide from the law.

[Anonymous]

52 years old with no prior run-ins with the law.

Carrying a 3 inch blade pocket knife.

They did something to enrage this man.

Right or wrong, we all might be safer if this man is acquitted because people will learn to fear and respect one another.

Reminds me of an incident within the last 2 years where a young man went to a rally with an assault rifle and killed at least one person in self defense. He was acquitted of all charges.

Time to wake up and assume that everyone is carrying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


He was under no obligation to leave. He wanted to keep looking for the phone. They didn’t have to surround him, continue to harrass him, and start a physical altercation first.


Never said they were justified in doing what they did. What I did say was—in any escalating, dangerous situation—YOU LEAVE. And he had the opportunity to do so. Now a teen is dead, and he will go to jail for life or will have some other significant sentence. He will be separated from his family. He will pay exorbitant legal fees. He will think about this every day for the rest of his life. And a teen is dead. If that was your teenage son or daughter, would you have wanted this guy to “stand his ground”? You walk away. Period.

You teach your kid that if they ever act like these kids did then they will deserve anything coming to them, and that behavior like that can and does get you killed. I have no sympathy for the teen. I have a lot for the harrassed 52 yo. I'd never convict him either.

He left the scene. Case closed.

Innocent people don’t kill others and then hide from the law.

And that’s exactly one of the major points the prosecution will hit. I think a lot of us can understand that those kids were out of control and he did actually feel threatened. But he didn’t just land one or two stab wounds to get them to leave them him: he literally gutted them like animals, and then he ran. Kudos to the citizens who identified him and turned him into the police.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:52 years old with no prior run-ins with the law.

Carrying a 3 inch blade pocket knife.

They did something to enrage this man.

Right or wrong, we all might be safer if this man is acquitted because people will learn to fear and respect one another.

Reminds me of an incident within the last 2 years where a young man went to a rally with an assault rifle and killed at least one person in self defense. He was acquitted of all charges.

Time to wake up and assume that everyone is carrying.

Nope, we’ll all be safer when MAH GUN SELF-DEFENSE, guns-for-Valentine’s Day types who are literally spoiling for a fight learn that they don’t get to be judge and jury of what is self-defense. Maybe one or two stab wounds to defend himself and scare them off would be justifiable. Literally, actually gutting them and then fleeing the scene? He will be convicted, and he will serve jail time. There will be some leniency, and the full picture will come out that he wasn’t 100% an instigator/the kids weren’t 100% innocent, but he will not be acquitted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So he approached them. If he thought they had it then the snorkel part gets creepier. Was he staring at them underwater trying to spot it? Grabbing onto a tube where he thought a person was hiding it? As an engineer what made him think the phone was there?

it's to reasonable to ask whether someone had found a phone? The teens were drunk. Their minds were altered

I never said it wasn’t reasonable for him to ask. But if they said no and then he got up in their space and was touching their tubes and not leaving them alone after they asked him to be left alone, he was essentially saying, “I don’t believe you, and I’m searching.” At that point, he goes from dude asking about a phone into space-invading creeper guy, 100%. And ring-a-ding-ding, turns out he IS a crazy creeper guy, what with being a murderer who stabbed three other people to the point that two had to be *airlifted* to the hospital, the other two rushed to the hospital. Intestines hanging out of bodies, organs exposed. A teen life over, others severely injured, and then he tries to flee.

He will be convicted. 100% he will be convicted, and while his sentence might be somewhat lenient given all the circumstances, he will absolutely serve jail time. I’ll see you all back here in a few months to tell you I told you so.

I'm not sure if it's reasonable to ask about a missing cell phone lost in a river. Why? Because those things sink like stones when they're dropped in water. Why would a group of kids floating down the river have anything to do with a cell phone lying somewhere on the riverbed ? ?

I think it's reasonable to ask about a misplaced cell phone. Say, it goes missing sometime in the course of a shopping trip. It's reasonable to backtrack and ask companies if it might be in their lost and found. But suspecting a group of kids saw the phone fall into the water and somehow managed to catch it with the intent to steal it? That's not reasonable at all. He was already behaving irrationally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So he approached them. If he thought they had it then the snorkel part gets creepier. Was he staring at them underwater trying to spot it? Grabbing onto a tube where he thought a person was hiding it? As an engineer what made him think the phone was there?

it's to reasonable to ask whether someone had found a phone? The teens were drunk. Their minds were altered

I never said it wasn’t reasonable for him to ask. But if they said no and then he got up in their space and was touching their tubes and not leaving them alone after they asked him to be left alone, he was essentially saying, “I don’t believe you, and I’m searching.” At that point, he goes from dude asking about a phone into space-invading creeper guy, 100%. And ring-a-ding-ding, turns out he IS a crazy creeper guy, what with being a murderer who stabbed three other people to the point that two had to be *airlifted* to the hospital, the other two rushed to the hospital. Intestines hanging out of bodies, organs exposed. A teen life over, others severely injured, and then he tries to flee.

He will be convicted. 100% he will be convicted, and while his sentence might be somewhat lenient given all the circumstances, he will absolutely serve jail time. I’ll see you all back here in a few months to tell you I told you so.

I'm not sure if it's reasonable to ask about a missing cell phone lost in a river. Why? Because those things sink like stones when they're dropped in water. Why would a group of kids floating down the river have anything to do with a cell phone lying somewhere on the riverbed ? ?

I think it's reasonable to ask about a misplaced cell phone. Say, it goes missing sometime in the course of a shopping trip. It's reasonable to backtrack and ask companies if it might be in their lost and found. But suspecting a group of kids saw the phone fall into the water and somehow managed to catch it with the intent to steal it? That's not reasonable at all. He was already behaving irrationally.

Apparently it was in a floating bag designed to keep phones/keys/wallets on that type of trip. So i don’t think a quick and polite inquiry was wrong, at all! What I think we will eventually find out in trial is that when they said they hadn’t seen it, he didn’t believe them and then started getting in their space, maybe accusing. He could have just waited for them to exit the area before searching, but he didn’t. He chose to get up in their space, and yes, that is creepy if you’ve already said no we haven’t seen the phone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So he approached them. If he thought they had it then the snorkel part gets creepier. Was he staring at them underwater trying to spot it? Grabbing onto a tube where he thought a person was hiding it? As an engineer what made him think the phone was there?

it's to reasonable to ask whether someone had found a phone? The teens were drunk. Their minds were altered

I never said it wasn’t reasonable for him to ask. But if they said no and then he got up in their space and was touching their tubes and not leaving them alone after they asked him to be left alone, he was essentially saying, “I don’t believe you, and I’m searching.” At that point, he goes from dude asking about a phone into space-invading creeper guy, 100%. And ring-a-ding-ding, turns out he IS a crazy creeper guy, what with being a murderer who stabbed three other people to the point that two had to be *airlifted* to the hospital, the other two rushed to the hospital. Intestines hanging out of bodies, organs exposed. A teen life over, others severely injured, and then he tries to flee.

He will be convicted. 100% he will be convicted, and while his sentence might be somewhat lenient given all the circumstances, he will absolutely serve jail time. I’ll see you all back here in a few months to tell you I told you so.

I'm not sure if it's reasonable to ask about a missing cell phone lost in a river. Why? Because those things sink like stones when they're dropped in water. Why would a group of kids floating down the river have anything to do with a cell phone lying somewhere on the riverbed ? ?

I think it's reasonable to ask about a misplaced cell phone. Say, it goes missing sometime in the course of a shopping trip. It's reasonable to backtrack and ask companies if it might be in their lost and found. But suspecting a group of kids saw the phone fall into the water and somehow managed to catch it with the intent to steal it? That's not reasonable at all. He was already behaving irrationally.

Apparently it was in a floating bag designed to keep phones/keys/wallets on that type of trip. So i don’t think a quick and polite inquiry was wrong, at all! What I think we will eventually find out in trial is that when they said they hadn’t seen it, he didn’t believe them and then started getting in their space, maybe accusing. He could have just waited for them to exit the area before searching, but he didn’t. He chose to get up in their space, and yes, that is creepy if you’ve already said no we haven’t seen the phone.

According to other witnesses (who may or may not be reliable), he was saying lots of strange things and attacked another woman (or more than one woman?) as well as the ones that he stabbed. I wonder if he had some sort of episode - is he taking any medication, does he have any history of lost time?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A tragedy but seems self defense, parents need to teach children better.

+1 Too many teens think they can engage in threatening, violent behaviors and get away with miminal or no consequences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


He was under no obligation to leave. He wanted to keep looking for the phone. They didn’t have to surround him, continue to harrass him, and start a physical altercation first.


Never said they were justified in doing what they did. What I did say was—in any escalating, dangerous situation—YOU LEAVE. And he had the opportunity to do so. Now a teen is dead, and he will go to jail for life or will have some other significant sentence. He will be separated from his family. He will pay exorbitant legal fees. He will think about this every day for the rest of his life. And a teen is dead. If that was your teenage son or daughter, would you have wanted this guy to “stand his ground”? You walk away. Period.

You teach your kid that if they ever act like these kids did then they will deserve anything coming to them, and that behavior like that can and does get you killed. I have no sympathy for the teen. I have a lot for the harrassed 52 yo. I'd never convict him either.

He left the scene. Case closed.

Innocent people don’t kill others and then hide from the law.

And that’s exactly one of the major points the prosecution will hit. I think a lot of us can understand that those kids were out of control and he did actually feel threatened. But he didn’t just land one or two stab wounds to get them to leave them him: he literally gutted them like animals, and then he ran. Kudos to the citizens who identified him and turned him into the police.

He was outnumbered. He was afraid. Not guilty.