How do you help a friend who in denial that her twins are totally ASD?

[Anonymous]

You don’t really sound like you like this woman that much. I also don’t get your shock that she could find a pre-k that would take them. Plenty of autistic adults have gone their whole life without being diagnosed. I have a son on the spectrum and have at times come across other kids (and adults) that I’m pretty sure have ASD and I don’t say anything because it really won’t do anything if the parents don’t want to hear it. If she has an older typically developing kid then she knows and doesn’t need you to show off your ability to Google.

[Anonymous]

When my child was in pre-k/daycare, no teacher ever flagged me anything that he had asd or adhd. He made eye contact (even though not perfect), good at imaginative play, no sensory issues, talked and interacted with others. The only small flags that I decided to get him evaluated was his flagging, not perfect eye contact, and did not greet people. Well, good luck to my son that it was parents the one paying attention to those tiny details that we had him diagnosed early with treatment plan and IEP in place at young age. It took 2 years to get him diagnosed with asd (hfa) and he got seen by many specialists because no one was certain and they kept referring my son to elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

I find it interesting that the dynamic in this thread is similar to your dynamic with your friend, OP.

A number of posters have told you that you are overstepping and you need to simply be supportive and let this woman figure this out on her own. And yet you have gotten extremely defensive, even angry, and doubled down on your belief that you are correct.

I wonder if there is a lesson in that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You don’t really sound like you like this woman that much. I also don’t get your shock that she could find a pre-k that would take them. Plenty of autistic adults have gone their whole life without being diagnosed. I have a son on the spectrum and have at times come across other kids (and adults) that I’m pretty sure have ASD and I don’t say anything because it really won’t do anything if the parents don’t want to hear it. If she has an older typically developing kid then she knows and doesn’t need you to show off your ability to Google.

Good point. Many of us have sn kids and zero issues with things like school and activities. Fortunately there are kind people who are willing, unlike you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don’t really sound like you like this woman that much. I also don’t get your shock that she could find a pre-k that would take them. Plenty of autistic adults have gone their whole life without being diagnosed. I have a son on the spectrum and have at times come across other kids (and adults) that I’m pretty sure have ASD and I don’t say anything because it really won’t do anything if the parents don’t want to hear it. If she has an older typically developing kid then she knows and doesn’t need you to show off your ability to Google.

Good point. Many of us have sn kids and zero issues with things like school and activities. Fortunately there are kind people who are willing, unlike you.

This. OP doesn’t like the kids or the woman. She’s disdainful and irritated by them. Not sure why she feels the need to be their savior. How nice for them.

[Anonymous]

Op a lot of people really really want a diagnosis and will seek it until they find someone who ‘teases out the autism’ and some people don’t feel the same
The only reason to seek a diagnosis is if it will change something about therapy or school, or if the child is old enough they need this information bc they are struggling
Way more people have asd by its current definition than you think - maybe even your friend does.
So anyway just focus on therapy if you think they need it.

[Anonymous]

You may be on this board like me, OP. I have a dyslexic child but find special needs interesting even though ASD and ADHD aren’t part of my life. And I have a dear friend with 3 very obviously ADHD boys who she is in complete denial about. Like your friend, she just changes schools when things get rough. They’ve been to 4 and the oldest is in 6th grade. Now she’s at one with no grades, which eliminates the whole issue of low tests and bad report cards. It’s frustrating. I get it. But there’s truly nothing to do. They don’t have a nuerotypical child to compare against, which makes it almost impossible. I’m not sure I would have fully understood DD’s dyslexia if it weren’t for my other kids. Your duty is to love your friend and love the kids. They’re on a journey and the only thing you can contribute to the journey is friendship. Or at least that’s my takeaway after all these years being in the same situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The responses to this query seem a bit unhinged. This woman is absolutely my friend and I've spent enough time with her and her children to be confident about "my diagnosis." We've been friends for almost a year and I regularly see her for playdates and to get out of the house. I never mentioned anything to her until she brought it up TO ME after the preschool teacher mentioned it; in the back of my mind I always knew it would come up and when the teacher mentioned it I was surprised by her complete denial.

I'm sorry, but the other adults around a child DO have a duty to them, to a certain extent. I'm not going to mention it to her unless she brings it up first but I was a little surprised when this other preschool apparently had no issue with them and their obvious developmental disorder. I just got the vibe that the school wanted their money and would flag the issue later, after the check cleared.

So you are a psychiatrist? Or developmental pediatrician? Autism specialist? I’m a teacher. I’ve seen hundreds of kindergartners throughout my years of teaching. I would never under any circumstances try to diagnose a child. I collect data and present it without bias. I might suggest an evaluation. That’s as far as I go. My daughter is a Special Ed teacher (Masters in behavioral observation, or something like that) who works in a self contained autism classroom. She has been teaching kids with autism for seven years. She would never try to diagnose a friend’s kid. Back off, OP. You’re not only out of your lane, you are off the road entirely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The responses to this query seem a bit unhinged. This woman is absolutely my friend and I've spent enough time with her and her children to be confident about "my diagnosis." We've been friends for almost a year and I regularly see her for playdates and to get out of the house. I never mentioned anything to her until she brought it up TO ME after the preschool teacher mentioned it; in the back of my mind I always knew it would come up and when the teacher mentioned it I was surprised by her complete denial.

I'm sorry, but the other adults around a child DO have a duty to them, to a certain extent. I'm not going to mention it to her unless she brings it up first but I was a little surprised when this other preschool apparently had no issue with them and their obvious developmental disorder. I just got the vibe that the school wanted their money and would flag the issue later, after the check cleared.

I think you are a good friend for being concerned and I don't know why all these people are being so rude to you for clearly wanting to help- but we know it's the nature of SOME folks around here. As a parent of twins, I'm here to say your friend needs you and is lucky to have you. Twin parents of 4 year olds are just trying to survive and anything beyond that can be a challenge. I think the best thing you can do is listen, help where you can and when its appropriate to drop a suggest or resource do it quietly and then move on, Let her decide if she is ready to face the music.

Both of mine have ADHD, one has language based disorders on top of it and it took us time to figure it all out. She will get there. Thanks for caring and being a friend to her. Just know there is only so much you can do and you have to walk the line.

[Anonymous]

You’ve said your piece to your friend, now you need to let her handle it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let’s be clear: You’re not friends with this woman. She is the mother of a child your son plays with. Your kids have gone to the same preschool. You may exchange pleasantries during the play date, but you’re not her friend. You’re using this ad a cover to sit and judge her. If you say you’re friends and only care about the children, you think that lets you off the hook for your judgment of this woman.

It doesn’t. Work on being an actual friend. Support her. Trust that she knows her kids best. Isn’t that what you want people to do for you?

The language op used is disgusting. I suggest this is a troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My friend is a mom of two 4-year-old twin girls who, while verbal, are totally on the spectrum. The girls are pretty high functioning all things considered, but I've never seen them play, they don't look at you in the eye, don't really answer questions directly, and hump playground equipment instead of, you know, playing and have pretty bad meltdowns when it comes to transitions. Problem is, my friend is in complete and total denial. Their preschool teacher brought it up to her by mentioning the lack of imaginative play and eye contact, and my friend just completely shut it down. My son had the same teacher last year so I know she means well and her observations are on point; I was actually surprised it took her this long to flag the twins as needing further evaluation.

I urged her to consider an evaluation as just data, look at it neutrally as something that can only help her kids, but it just wasn't getting through to her, whatsoever. She insists her girls do make eye contact and engage in imaginative play (they don't). Whenever I see the girls for a playdate (my son plays with her older daughter) they're totally in their own world; at playgrounds they just wander around, never really playing with the equipment or other children. So, her response has been to find another preschool. Surprisingly, the preschool they toured at didn't seem to take issue with them and claimed they were ready for pre-K, to which my friend took to mean that the previous teacher was just so totally wrong and biased.

Have any of you found a preschool that's just content to take your money and then when they've got you suggest an evaluation? I can't imagine any educator seeing these girls and seeing them as NT, at the very least they seem SPD but more realistically it just screams autism (to me).

I've realized that I'm just going to have to drop it as my suggestions have gone ignored, but at the end of the day I do feel a duty to these children. Any advice?

My asd daughter engaged in imaginative play all the time. I think it's less of a benchmark than you think.

She wasn't diagnosed until she was 12, when her lack of picking up on social cues became clear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The responses to this query seem a bit unhinged. This woman is absolutely my friend and I've spent enough time with her and her children to be confident about "my diagnosis." We've been friends for almost a year and I regularly see her for playdates and to get out of the house. I never mentioned anything to her until she brought it up TO ME after the preschool teacher mentioned it; in the back of my mind I always knew it would come up and when the teacher mentioned it I was surprised by her complete denial.

I'm sorry, but the other adults around a child DO have a duty to them, to a certain extent. I'm not going to mention it to her unless she brings it up first but I was a little surprised when this other preschool apparently had no issue with them and their obvious developmental disorder. I just got the vibe that the school wanted their money and would flag the issue later, after the check cleared.

You’re being really really unkind about these children and that’s driving the comments. You refer to them as “humping” playground equipment and as having an “obvious developmental disorder” and just generally sound incredibly full of dislike and distaste for these poor kids. It’s disturbing. Look, they’re 4. They’ll go to kindergarten in a year and the teacher will have to bring it up if necessary. Kids with developmental disorders that impair their development to the point they can’t function are placed in special education. So, why don’t you just leave it? It’s a slow hard path for some people. They’re not missing out on much. If they are autistic, there’s no cure. So calm down.

If there's no cure then why do some kids "recover" and go on to become indistinguishable to their NT peers? You're clearly of the camp that nothing can be done, which is just factually wrong. Do you think ABA is useless? Everyone here is so defensive and projecting their own shit here it's sad.

NP here. Bull. There really aren't interventions for autism. Also I can't believe the language here. People are not "asd". They may have asd but don't refer to them as if it is their identity. Some kids have sensory issues that improve as they get older - they never had autism. This is why we ignore playground MDs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The responses to this query seem a bit unhinged. This woman is absolutely my friend and I've spent enough time with her and her children to be confident about "my diagnosis." We've been friends for almost a year and I regularly see her for playdates and to get out of the house. I never mentioned anything to her until she brought it up TO ME after the preschool teacher mentioned it; in the back of my mind I always knew it would come up and when the teacher mentioned it I was surprised by her complete denial.

I'm sorry, but the other adults around a child DO have a duty to them, to a certain extent. I'm not going to mention it to her unless she brings it up first but I was a little surprised when this other preschool apparently had no issue with them and their obvious developmental disorder. I just got the vibe that the school wanted their money and would flag the issue later, after the check cleared.

You’re being really really unkind about these children and that’s driving the comments. You refer to them as “humping” playground equipment and as having an “obvious developmental disorder” and just generally sound incredibly full of dislike and distaste for these poor kids. It’s disturbing. Look, they’re 4. They’ll go to kindergarten in a year and the teacher will have to bring it up if necessary. Kids with developmental disorders that impair their development to the point they can’t function are placed in special education. So, why don’t you just leave it? It’s a slow hard path for some people. They’re not missing out on much. If they are autistic, there’s no cure. So calm down.

If there's no cure then why do some kids "recover" and go on to become indistinguishable to their NT peers? You're clearly of the camp that nothing can be done, which is just factually wrong. Do you think ABA is useless? Everyone here is so defensive and projecting their own shit here it's sad.

Whoa you are a nutter. First of all, that almost never happens. Sorry. Not to cure the kinds of deficits you’re talking about. Some kids don’t get diagnosed until much later because their differences are subtle. ABA helps sometimes, but it’s no cure. You’re just full of crap and extremely confident about it, which is a really bad combination.

The combination of ignorance and strong opinion makes for a horrible human. I avoided people like op when my kids were young. We were getting them evaluated but I would never share information with the mom I knew like op. Also one of my children is autistic and did great in private preschool. Op is too ignorant to realize that there is a spectrum.

She's a troll.

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure I see the problem. They are verbal, and a regular preschool took them based on what I assume was a visit. The mother is happy with them and they don't seem unhappy themselves except having meltdowns at transitions sometimes. I have news for you that this happens with lots of NT kids too.
Twins can also be slower to develop interactions with others because they spend so much time together. This is documented. You should Google.

The children had medical issues earlier, assuming because they were twins and were born early, so they may have been getting early intervention services or at least someone with an actual medical degree spending time with them. Wouldn't you think that the mother had already been told to seek an evaluation if they needed it?

I'm not saying you're completely wrong and they are not on the spectrum but I don't see why you are so worked up. These are not kids that are engaging in self-harm or can't speak a word or have trouble going to playgrounds because there's too much noise or other things that would keep them from regular school or regular activities at this point.