Talk me off a ledge- other side of the world and just discovered cheating

[Anonymous]

PP did you read the drinking thread? If you do, I think you might have a different view on OP's DH, their marriage, and what would be in the best interest of their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP did you read the drinking thread? If you do, I think you might have a different view on OP's DH, their marriage, and what would be in the best interest of their kids.

+1

PP is also discounting how damaging being raised in an unhealthy marriage is for kids. My parents fought constantly when I was growing up but didn’t divorce until I was an adult. It wasn’t the divorce that did the most damage, it was being raised with unhappily married parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm the PP you quoted with the closeted ex-H. Obviously OP and her H have a lot to discuss in therapy. Ideally they'd both learn a lot about themselves and become an even stronger team, yada yada yada. But my (rather sad) point was that my new divorced life sucks so bad that there are days when I would rather live in an effed up marriage where at least the day-to-day was pleasant and my social circle was intact. Since her H is presumably not gay, she still has the option of trying to salvage her marriage. There are a LOT of intangibles I didn't realize came with marriage until I lost them.

DP. I remember your posts. I hope you're doing better. Big hugs.

PP here who wrote that response. I hear you. I am so sorry. I wish you only the best

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Re: the no shouting. We just....don't? We don't yell at each other, we don't yell at our kids. When we disagree or have a heavy topic to discuss, we've always picked a time to do so (like can we talk tomorrow after the kids go to bed) and then we talk it out. I guess our kids are little and healthy so we haven't been faced with major parenting issues yet. I don't know what else we would fight about. DH carries his weight and then some around the household and parenting, he's a fantastic dad, he cooks, cleans, does laundry, takes on some of the mental load of ordering the next size of kids clothes/shoes, scheduling doctors appts, planning trips. He's extremely handy and fixes anything plumbing, electrical, heating/AC, or car related. When he would travel for work, he suggested an agreement that his first full day home would always be a "day off" of kids and household for me. There just wasn't really any built up resentment about anything and I can't think of anything obvious we would fight about.

Minus the kids, I was in a marriage like this. Got together at 19, together 22 years, never fought. We just knew how to communicate respectfully and we rarely disagreed on anything. But my H also had a big unhealthy secret -- he was hooking up with men, which forced us to divorce. But what you describe in the paragraph above is so incredibly rare. It's rare to find someone you get along with to that degree, who you also want to have sex with. Being divorced sucks. It's lonely. You no longer have "your person" to share mundane thoughts with, go to dinner with, play cards with, travel with. My ex's family was MY family, and yet they completely disappeared when we divorced. Same with most of our intertwined group of friends. I can't fathom starting over with a stranger I meet online, someone who has secrets just like my ex did (who's currently dating a woman he met on bumble). You have a marriage worth saving.

But are you really getting along if one of the partners in the marriage has an entire secret life and relationship(s)? A marriage is all the parts, seen and unseen, spoken and unspoken. When we don’t bring something to the surface it doesn’t mean that it ain’t also a part of or impacting the marriage, it just isn’t overtly expressed.

In many ways I think it is healthier to have incidents of emotional outburst (not the the point of abuse as some posters have mentioned), than to have prolonged suppressed and repressed parts of the marriage and each spouses identities. I am not advocating for a loss of identity, autonomy or agency in the marriage, but when a partner has a huge part of their identity - like the longing for an outlet so strong that they seem a secret relationship outside of marriage - there is a lot of emotional unrest and turmoil underneath that. In ways the affair is a symptom of underlying issues that the individual may or may not be conscious of but is certainly not bringing up or addressing with themselves or their spouse.

A marriage like this… I don’t know… I don’t think you can call it rare in the positive sense or nearly perfect or smooth. It is real in the sense that each is doing their best but it sounds like so much has been repressed/suppressed, at least in the husband. And Op, I mean this kindly, but I think there could be some denial here too. The incidents, at least with drinking, that you mention about you DH would cause me to seriously question my view of my husband. Who is he? If he is truly to so calm, patient and kind etc… how could he be partaking in activities like drunk driving that are so selfish and dangerous. At the very best it would indicate a pattern of lying with himself. Where he doesn’t even see his own brokenness as a human and lack of integrity. That would cause me to wonder where else in life he may be inadvertently lying to himself. Seeming like a whole person, but underneath the surface his narrative of himself and his actions don’t align. Truly a human with broken integrity. This would be a series of conversations, rebuilding of trust etc…

Have you heard of the 3 S’s? Secrecy, silence and shame. Where there is one there are the other two. For me it is not the story of the drinking to destress because of work that is most bothersome. Yes, that is unhealthy but that is the surface problem. The real question for me is, but why hide it? Why the secrecy? Why not just drink etc… there is the indicator, the pointer in self inquiry toward shame. We hide when we are ashamed. Which would lead to the next question - what are we ashamed of? Therein lies the answer of a secret.

I think it is great that you take your husband at word value, and I also think other parts of us are a part of wholeness discernment too. There is our intuition. There is reflection, discernment, does what the person say add up as a whole. I don’t know if these all aligned for you. But I am saying this because often when we have been living with someone who had a big secret we have felt off the whole time. When things blow up, even though it is awful, there is a moment of oh my gosh it all makes sense.

I’ve covered a lot here and jumped around a bit. Sorry for all the words but I have been reading every reply and remember your old drinking post. I was always struck by how calm you were in your responses. I will admit I am not so myself. I also have a history of substance and alcohol abuse and so does my DH. We are both sober now many years, but I am not unfamiliar. Infidelity, although not discovered in the way you have, was a part of our early story too. I strongly agree with the poster who said whatever happens there will be a lot to unpack in individual therapy.

I'm the PP you quoted with the closeted ex-H. Obviously OP and her H have a lot to discuss in therapy. Ideally they'd both learn a lot about themselves and become an even stronger team, yada yada yada. But my (rather sad) point was that my new divorced life sucks so bad that there are days when I would rather live in an effed up marriage where at least the day-to-day was pleasant and my social circle was intact. Since her H is presumably not gay, she still has the option of trying to salvage her marriage. There are a LOT of intangibles I didn't realize came with marriage until I lost them.

DP - I’m really sorry, PP. For people who met fairly young and stayed together, your marriage becomes such a fundamental part of your identity that I can appreciate the depth and breadth of the loss. It’s not something from which you recover quickly.

That said, you likely will adjust with time. You do have the option to build a new life for yourself. You may not find a partner with whom you get along - at some level - as easily as your exH, but you may well find one who is faithful and who has more integrity. I suspect that many of these seemingly idyllic marriages often do come along with one or both partners hiding a part of themselves, mostly because that level of amiability can come with a price. Having no obvious friction in a marriage suggests, to me, that the partners aren’t particularly independent individuals. So, you may find a relationship with a more friction, but it can also be one with more room for you both as individual people - with the huge benefit being that you don’t feel the need to keep secrets as big as your exH did or as the OP’s H did. There’s space for you as a whole person.

Thank you and 13:27 for your kind words.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Re: the no shouting. We just....don't? We don't yell at each other, we don't yell at our kids. When we disagree or have a heavy topic to discuss, we've always picked a time to do so (like can we talk tomorrow after the kids go to bed) and then we talk it out. I guess our kids are little and healthy so we haven't been faced with major parenting issues yet. I don't know what else we would fight about. DH carries his weight and then some around the household and parenting, he's a fantastic dad, he cooks, cleans, does laundry, takes on some of the mental load of ordering the next size of kids clothes/shoes, scheduling doctors appts, planning trips. He's extremely handy and fixes anything plumbing, electrical, heating/AC, or car related. When he would travel for work, he suggested an agreement that his first full day home would always be a "day off" of kids and household for me. There just wasn't really any built up resentment about anything and I can't think of anything obvious we would fight about.

Minus the kids, I was in a marriage like this. Got together at 19, together 22 years, never fought. We just knew how to communicate respectfully and we rarely disagreed on anything. But my H also had a big unhealthy secret -- he was hooking up with men, which forced us to divorce. But what you describe in the paragraph above is so incredibly rare. It's rare to find someone you get along with to that degree, who you also want to have sex with. Being divorced sucks. It's lonely. You no longer have "your person" to share mundane thoughts with, go to dinner with, play cards with, travel with. My ex's family was MY family, and yet they completely disappeared when we divorced. Same with most of our intertwined group of friends. I can't fathom starting over with a stranger I meet online, someone who has secrets just like my ex did (who's currently dating a woman he met on bumble). You have a marriage worth saving.

But are you really getting along if one of the partners in the marriage has an entire secret life and relationship(s)? A marriage is all the parts, seen and unseen, spoken and unspoken. When we don’t bring something to the surface it doesn’t mean that it ain’t also a part of or impacting the marriage, it just isn’t overtly expressed.

In many ways I think it is healthier to have incidents of emotional outburst (not the the point of abuse as some posters have mentioned), than to have prolonged suppressed and repressed parts of the marriage and each spouses identities. I am not advocating for a loss of identity, autonomy or agency in the marriage, but when a partner has a huge part of their identity - like the longing for an outlet so strong that they seem a secret relationship outside of marriage - there is a lot of emotional unrest and turmoil underneath that. In ways the affair is a symptom of underlying issues that the individual may or may not be conscious of but is certainly not bringing up or addressing with themselves or their spouse.

A marriage like this… I don’t know… I don’t think you can call it rare in the positive sense or nearly perfect or smooth. It is real in the sense that each is doing their best but it sounds like so much has been repressed/suppressed, at least in the husband. And Op, I mean this kindly, but I think there could be some denial here too. The incidents, at least with drinking, that you mention about you DH would cause me to seriously question my view of my husband. Who is he? If he is truly to so calm, patient and kind etc… how could he be partaking in activities like drunk driving that are so selfish and dangerous. At the very best it would indicate a pattern of lying with himself. Where he doesn’t even see his own brokenness as a human and lack of integrity. That would cause me to wonder where else in life he may be inadvertently lying to himself. Seeming like a whole person, but underneath the surface his narrative of himself and his actions don’t align. Truly a human with broken integrity. This would be a series of conversations, rebuilding of trust etc…

Have you heard of the 3 S’s? Secrecy, silence and shame. Where there is one there are the other two. For me it is not the story of the drinking to destress because of work that is most bothersome. Yes, that is unhealthy but that is the surface problem. The real question for me is, but why hide it? Why the secrecy? Why not just drink etc… there is the indicator, the pointer in self inquiry toward shame. We hide when we are ashamed. Which would lead to the next question - what are we ashamed of? Therein lies the answer of a secret.

I think it is great that you take your husband at word value, and I also think other parts of us are a part of wholeness discernment too. There is our intuition. There is reflection, discernment, does what the person say add up as a whole. I don’t know if these all aligned for you. But I am saying this because often when we have been living with someone who had a big secret we have felt off the whole time. When things blow up, even though it is awful, there is a moment of oh my gosh it all makes sense.

I’ve covered a lot here and jumped around a bit. Sorry for all the words but I have been reading every reply and remember your old drinking post. I was always struck by how calm you were in your responses. I will admit I am not so myself. I also have a history of substance and alcohol abuse and so does my DH. We are both sober now many years, but I am not unfamiliar. Infidelity, although not discovered in the way you have, was a part of our early story too. I strongly agree with the poster who said whatever happens there will be a lot to unpack in individual therapy.

I'm the PP you quoted with the closeted ex-H. Obviously OP and her H have a lot to discuss in therapy. Ideally they'd both learn a lot about themselves and become an even stronger team, yada yada yada. But my (rather sad) point was that my new divorced life sucks so bad that there are days when I would rather live in an effed up marriage where at least the day-to-day was pleasant and my social circle was intact. Since her H is presumably not gay, she still has the option of trying to salvage her marriage. There are a LOT of intangibles I didn't realize came with marriage until I lost them.

DP - I’m really sorry, PP. For people who met fairly young and stayed together, your marriage becomes such a fundamental part of your identity that I can appreciate the depth and breadth of the loss. It’s not something from which you recover quickly.

That said, you likely will adjust with time. You do have the option to build a new life for yourself. You may not find a partner with whom you get along - at some level - as easily as your exH, but you may well find one who is faithful and who has more integrity. I suspect that many of these seemingly idyllic marriages often do come along with one or both partners hiding a part of themselves, mostly because that level of amiability can come with a price. Having no obvious friction in a marriage suggests, to me, that the partners aren’t particularly independent individuals. So, you may find a relationship with a more friction, but it can also be one with more room for you both as individual people - with the huge benefit being that you don’t feel the need to keep secrets as big as your exH did or as the OP’s H did. There’s space for you as a whole person.

Thank you and 13:27 for your kind words.

You’re welcome, PP. Big hugs to you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hope I'm not overstepping here by posting. I was a MW who had an affair and a d-day. We did not have kids at the time but had been together for 15 years so a long history. After d-day, my H said to me, "I have no idea whether I still want to be with you. I am going to take the time to figure out what I want. But in the meantime, here are the things I need from you to make me feel safe." 

Frankly I am glad he said those things to me. Because as I started therapy and working on myself, I realized I wanted to change and grow not all for my husband but also for myself. While I wanted to still be with my husband, I wanted to be a better person regardless of whether our marriage made it. While the work I did benefited our relationship as well, I didn't approach the work as a way to "win him back."

Unfortunately I don't think a lot of WS are willing to dig deep and take full responsibility for their actions. It's like a deep wound and they just want to stick a band-aid on it so it heals on the outside and looks good. But wounds like these need to be healed from the inside out. And while I was working on myself and peeling the onion of my lifetime of crap, I was simultaneously doing everything I could to help my husband heal and make him feel safe. 13+ years later we are still together and have a family.

OP I am so sorry that this has happened to you and I wish you strength and healing on whatever path it takes to get there for you.

Thanks for sharing I really value your advice. My DH has expressed the same sentiment multiple times that he wants to do the work on himself for himself and our kids even if it doesn't work out between us. He did intake calls with 4 therapists and really liked the one that my therapist had suggested I connect him with (which I HIGHLY value my therapists opinion because she's wonderful) so he has his second appt with that one next week. I also want to see him better himself independent of me and our relationship future.

I'm glad he is starting therapy. I also did a lot of journaling and reading on affairs, self-esteem, and relationships. The more information the better, because out of every book I gained a few nuggets. I will caution you, though, to be prepared for more info at some point. After d-day I held things back and told myself it was to protect my H. But really it was to protect me, and the info came out about six months later anyway and did set us back. I do think that as WS we almost use hiding/lying as a coping skill and it becomes ingrained and difficult to change. I learned my lesson the hard way.

For us, it was about 18 months before my H felt like he could stay in the relationship with me. But one thing he said to me that I will never forget: "You were the one person who was supposed to have my back. And you didn't." So now I always try to make sure he knows I have his back, always, every day. That doesn't mean I'm a doormat, it means we now have a much more open, healthier marriage than we did before. I just wish with every part of me that we could have gotten to this point without me hurting him so harshly and deeply.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hope I'm not overstepping here by posting. I was a MW who had an affair and a d-day. We did not have kids at the time but had been together for 15 years so a long history. After d-day, my H said to me, "I have no idea whether I still want to be with you. I am going to take the time to figure out what I want. But in the meantime, here are the things I need from you to make me feel safe." 

Frankly I am glad he said those things to me. Because as I started therapy and working on myself, I realized I wanted to change and grow not all for my husband but also for myself. While I wanted to still be with my husband, I wanted to be a better person regardless of whether our marriage made it. While the work I did benefited our relationship as well, I didn't approach the work as a way to "win him back."

Unfortunately I don't think a lot of WS are willing to dig deep and take full responsibility for their actions. It's like a deep wound and they just want to stick a band-aid on it so it heals on the outside and looks good. But wounds like these need to be healed from the inside out. And while I was working on myself and peeling the onion of my lifetime of crap, I was simultaneously doing everything I could to help my husband heal and make him feel safe. 13+ years later we are still together and have a family.

OP I am so sorry that this has happened to you and I wish you strength and healing on whatever path it takes to get there for you.

Thanks for sharing I really value your advice. My DH has expressed the same sentiment multiple times that he wants to do the work on himself for himself and our kids even if it doesn't work out between us. He did intake calls with 4 therapists and really liked the one that my therapist had suggested I connect him with (which I HIGHLY value my therapists opinion because she's wonderful) so he has his second appt with that one next week. I also want to see him better himself independent of me and our relationship future.

I'm glad he is starting therapy. I also did a lot of journaling and reading on affairs, self-esteem, and relationships. The more information the better, because out of every book I gained a few nuggets. I will caution you, though, to be prepared for more info at some point. After d-day I held things back and told myself it was to protect my H. But really it was to protect me, and the info came out about six months later anyway and did set us back. I do think that as WS we almost use hiding/lying as a coping skill and it becomes ingrained and difficult to change. I learned my lesson the hard way.

For us, it was about 18 months before my H felt like he could stay in the relationship with me. But one thing he said to me that I will never forget: "You were the one person who was supposed to have my back. And you didn't." So now I always try to make sure he knows I have his back, always, every day. That doesn't mean I'm a doormat, it means we now have a much more open, healthier marriage than we did before. I just wish with every part of me that we could have gotten to this point without me hurting him so harshly and deeply.

Are you open to sharing (even just in a general sense) what info didn't come out until later? I've been hounding him about ensuring everything is told to me uo front, no tricking truthing, threatening to walk away immediately if anything else comes out he didn't initially divulge, explaining how new info is basically just another dday and restarts the healing clock.

[Anonymous]

Many people report that additional people come out. For me, it was clarification on when, where, those kind of details as I think his mind was sort of blown by what he had done. And also he lied about whether anyone knew (his father had guessed maybe eight months before I found out and had not told me and died before I knew).

[Anonymous]

OP one thing I would insist on in addition to individual therapy would be treatment for substance abuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hope I'm not overstepping here by posting. I was a MW who had an affair and a d-day. We did not have kids at the time but had been together for 15 years so a long history. After d-day, my H said to me, "I have no idea whether I still want to be with you. I am going to take the time to figure out what I want. But in the meantime, here are the things I need from you to make me feel safe." 

Frankly I am glad he said those things to me. Because as I started therapy and working on myself, I realized I wanted to change and grow not all for my husband but also for myself. While I wanted to still be with my husband, I wanted to be a better person regardless of whether our marriage made it. While the work I did benefited our relationship as well, I didn't approach the work as a way to "win him back."

Unfortunately I don't think a lot of WS are willing to dig deep and take full responsibility for their actions. It's like a deep wound and they just want to stick a band-aid on it so it heals on the outside and looks good. But wounds like these need to be healed from the inside out. And while I was working on myself and peeling the onion of my lifetime of crap, I was simultaneously doing everything I could to help my husband heal and make him feel safe. 13+ years later we are still together and have a family.

OP I am so sorry that this has happened to you and I wish you strength and healing on whatever path it takes to get there for you.

Thanks for sharing I really value your advice. My DH has expressed the same sentiment multiple times that he wants to do the work on himself for himself and our kids even if it doesn't work out between us. He did intake calls with 4 therapists and really liked the one that my therapist had suggested I connect him with (which I HIGHLY value my therapists opinion because she's wonderful) so he has his second appt with that one next week. I also want to see him better himself independent of me and our relationship future.

I'm glad he is starting therapy. I also did a lot of journaling and reading on affairs, self-esteem, and relationships. The more information the better, because out of every book I gained a few nuggets. I will caution you, though, to be prepared for more info at some point. After d-day I held things back and told myself it was to protect my H. But really it was to protect me, and the info came out about six months later anyway and did set us back. I do think that as WS we almost use hiding/lying as a coping skill and it becomes ingrained and difficult to change. I learned my lesson the hard way.

For us, it was about 18 months before my H felt like he could stay in the relationship with me. But one thing he said to me that I will never forget: "You were the one person who was supposed to have my back. And you didn't." So now I always try to make sure he knows I have his back, always, every day. That doesn't mean I'm a doormat, it means we now have a much more open, healthier marriage than we did before. I just wish with every part of me that we could have gotten to this point without me hurting him so harshly and deeply.

Are you open to sharing (even just in a general sense) what info didn't come out until later? I've been hounding him about ensuring everything is told to me uo front, no tricking truthing, threatening to walk away immediately if anything else comes out he didn't initially divulge, explaining how new info is basically just another dday and restarts the healing clock.

Sure. I had two phases with xMM. In the first one, we mostly talked online for a few weeks and met once. Then we stopped communicating for about 5-6 months. We picked up again after that and that's when it went physical. The second phase is what I told my H originally, but he found out the rest of it. I did not tell him for many reasons...like I said trying to protect him, I thought it wasn't as big a deal because it wasn't physical. But mainly I was ashamed. I was ashamed of what I did, I was ashamed that I had a chance to stop things, to not go physical, and I didn't. I was so, so ashamed of my choices that I retreated to my most-common-at-the-time coping skill, hiding. Because I couldn't yet face the severity of what I had done. It's really hard to look in the mirror and know that you're the bad guy in the situation...but that's what needs to happen in order to start the growth and healing process.

[Anonymous]

Hi OP, I’ve been following this thread closely, and am (finally) posting a response with the courage of happy hour wines. I have been on the other side of this situation, the similarities so close that I’ve at times questioned if I were the other woman (with details changed). Before casting stones, in my case, I had no idea of the existence of a significant partner. Ironically, my own marriage ended after my ex-husband had an affair, and thus, would never have willingly engaged. He was never married (and no children, thankfully), but in a 20 year relationship with a woman he’d been with since 18. They’d only ever been with one another.

To give a brief overview, I met this man while he was in the DC area for business; we had an instant connection, shared hobbies, and ultimately, chemistry. We saw each other a few times while he was in DC, and he left for a distant country. In the few weeks after our initial meeting, we talked incessantly; in those first few weeks, we’d talk on the phone, sometimes for hours. It seemed impossible that he could be in a relationship given the time we spent communicating, and there was no reason to believe otherwise. With distance and time, the initial infatuation waned; that said, we remained in communication over the next six-months. For the most part, the conversation was not sexual, just shared interests and jokes; this allowed a friendship to build. Fast-forward sixth months, he returned on a work assignment. We reconnected, and spent the following three weeks largely inseparable. As we spent days and nights together, there was never any indication that there was a partner.

The affair was discovered not long after he returned to his country. I received a message in the middle of the night stating he would not be able to talk to me. A few days later, I received a call, and at that point, the 20 year relationship was disclosed. I spoke with her individually (she reached out to me), and my conversations with both (after the fact) are the reason I’m electing to participate in this conversation. There are many similarities, and I can understand, and while not condone his behavior, sympathize with both parties.

The most important takeaway is to echo exactly what you stated, that you did nothing wrong. This is one of the first things that she communicated to me; that she was a good partner, and she didn’t deserve this. I wholeheartedly agree. Their history also mirrors yours, they were together since 18, and accordingly, their families too had become intertwined. By all accounts, they did not argue, and had a positive, happy relationship.

One of the previous posters had mentioned a stifling feeling, and when explaining his indiscretions, this was exactly what he described. Because the relationship was ultimately good, and because they got along so well, there was a genuine hesitancy to bring up difficult feelings. Their families closeness also compounded the issues, and made it difficult for both to express discontent. Despite their individual needs not necessarily being met, neither want to rock the relationship (at least in terms of approaching one another; there is absolutely no dispute that he rocked the relationship).

If you’re still reading (my god I had a lot to say, sorry!), I think that your relationship is worth saving, but you’ll need to have incredibly honest and difficult conversations with one another. Occasionally, it’s ok to respectfully argue and express your needs, especially after 20 years. Given this experience, I’ve seen the immense sadness over the loss of what was a strong, but imperfect, relationship. Imperfections are alright though, OP. Anonymous hugs for the difficult situation that you are going through.

[Anonymous]

PP- thank you for sharing. I read it shortly after you posted last night and honestly thought about your post all night long. I guess it made me realize that someone else had a POV into my marriage and that was pretty unsettling to think about.

I found out the OW not only stalked my MIL's social media, but mine as well, extensively. I don't post often and as far as I can see all of my settings have always been on private so I have no idea how she was seeing it. Now I'm really concerned. It's eating at me that someone that was this obsessive does not just never respond and quietly walk away after she was "crazy in love" with someone for years. I'm like waiting for a bomb to go off. I'm honestly considering getting cameras installed.

DH seems to be coming out of the "fog" and connecting with his/my emotions. He's realized he actually has no idea who this person is, nor does she know the real him. I rapid fired a million questions at him last night like does she have friends? does she have siblings? is she close with her family? where did she grow up? does she have a degree? does she live alone? how did she end up a 40yo old single bartender? does she go on vacations? what does she do for fun on the weekends? is she dating other people? does she often go for married men? Then I reversed all the questions to ask does she know this about you? And it was a solid no to every single one. His demeanor changed right away and I think he was having some sort of internal crisis/realizations at that moment. Like he could finally understand aside from the hurt and betrayal, just how effing bizarre so many of these details are.

I can't remember if I shared this, but while googling her email address, I found that she has posted in the support Q&A section of PayPal's website several times over the last few years posting questions like "Someone is trying to send me money but I'm not receiving it". To me it was VERY clear that she was seeking money (whether that was her sole goal or a hopeful benefit of the relationship I'm not sure). She would frequently comment that she is stressed about making rent, she would kill for a vacation but has never been on a plane and tickets cost what she makes in 3 weeks, that she only makes $1200 USD per month, that she has to stagger the dates her bills can be paid and it's so stressful it's having an impact on her health, etc etc etc. DH would always respond things like that does sound stressful or maybe you can get a higher paying job or find a cheaper place to live. He maintains that he never sent her money and I've gone as far down in the depths of bank statements, Venmo, zelle, PayPal, credit cards, etc as I can. We also have an excel file and track every dollar in and out and sit down each month to review it so I'm fairly confident he's telling the truth there, but again who knows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP- thank you for sharing. I read it shortly after you posted last night and honestly thought about your post all night long. I guess it made me realize that someone else had a POV into my marriage and that was pretty unsettling to think about.

I found out the OW not only stalked my MIL's social media, but mine as well, extensively. I don't post often and as far as I can see all of my settings have always been on private so I have no idea how she was seeing it. Now I'm really concerned. It's eating at me that someone that was this obsessive does not just never respond and quietly walk away after she was "crazy in love" with someone for years. I'm like waiting for a bomb to go off. I'm honestly considering getting cameras installed.

DH seems to be coming out of the "fog" and connecting with his/my emotions. He's realized he actually has no idea who this person is, nor does she know the real him. I rapid fired a million questions at him last night like does she have friends? does she have siblings? is she close with her family? where did she grow up? does she have a degree? does she live alone? how did she end up a 40yo old single bartender? does she go on vacations? what does she do for fun on the weekends? is she dating other people? does she often go for married men? Then I reversed all the questions to ask does she know this about you? And it was a solid no to every single one. His demeanor changed right away and I think he was having some sort of internal crisis/realizations at that moment. Like he could finally understand aside from the hurt and betrayal, just how effing bizarre so many of these details are.

I can't remember if I shared this, but while googling her email address, I found that she has posted in the support Q&A section of PayPal's website several times over the last few years posting questions like "Someone is trying to send me money but I'm not receiving it". To me it was VERY clear that she was seeking money (whether that was her sole goal or a hopeful benefit of the relationship I'm not sure). She would frequently comment that she is stressed about making rent, she would kill for a vacation but has never been on a plane and tickets cost what she makes in 3 weeks, that she only makes $1200 USD per month, that she has to stagger the dates her bills can be paid and it's so stressful it's having an impact on her health, etc etc etc. DH would always respond things like that does sound stressful or maybe you can get a higher paying job or find a cheaper place to live. He maintains that he never sent her money and I've gone as far down in the depths of bank statements, Venmo, zelle, PayPal, credit cards, etc as I can. We also have an excel file and track every dollar in and out and sit down each month to review it so I'm fairly confident he's telling the truth there, but again who knows.

OP here. Lol at myself writing this as I give the entire DCUMland a very extensive POV into my marriage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP- thank you for sharing. I read it shortly after you posted last night and honestly thought about your post all night long. I guess it made me realize that someone else had a POV into my marriage and that was pretty unsettling to think about.

I found out the OW not only stalked my MIL's social media, but mine as well, extensively. I don't post often and as far as I can see all of my settings have always been on private so I have no idea how she was seeing it. Now I'm really concerned. It's eating at me that someone that was this obsessive does not just never respond and quietly walk away after she was "crazy in love" with someone for years. I'm like waiting for a bomb to go off. I'm honestly considering getting cameras installed.

DH seems to be coming out of the "fog" and connecting with his/my emotions. He's realized he actually has no idea who this person is, nor does she know the real him. I rapid fired a million questions at him last night like does she have friends? does she have siblings? is she close with her family? where did she grow up? does she have a degree? does she live alone? how did she end up a 40yo old single bartender? does she go on vacations? what does she do for fun on the weekends? is she dating other people? does she often go for married men? Then I reversed all the questions to ask does she know this about you? And it was a solid no to every single one. His demeanor changed right away and I think he was having some sort of internal crisis/realizations at that moment. Like he could finally understand aside from the hurt and betrayal, just how effing bizarre so many of these details are.

I can't remember if I shared this, but while googling her email address, I found that she has posted in the support Q&A section of PayPal's website several times over the last few years posting questions like "Someone is trying to send me money but I'm not receiving it". To me it was VERY clear that she was seeking money (whether that was her sole goal or a hopeful benefit of the relationship I'm not sure). She would frequently comment that she is stressed about making rent, she would kill for a vacation but has never been on a plane and tickets cost what she makes in 3 weeks, that she only makes $1200 USD per month, that she has to stagger the dates her bills can be paid and it's so stressful it's having an impact on her health, etc etc etc. DH would always respond things like that does sound stressful or maybe you can get a higher paying job or find a cheaper place to live. He maintains that he never sent her money and I've gone as far down in the depths of bank statements, Venmo, zelle, PayPal, credit cards, etc as I can. We also have an excel file and track every dollar in and out and sit down each month to review it so I'm fairly confident he's telling the truth there, but again who knows.

very common and very creepy and so unsettling.

[Anonymous]

For social media, she may have been able to see parts of your profile if she friended your husband. Make sure your stuff is set to "friends only" and not "friends of friends." I wouldn't be too concerned about her researching your Internet presence, I feel like that's fairly standard, and harmless, especially since this woman is in another country and doesn't have the resources to travel.