Talk me off a ledge- other side of the world and just discovered cheating

[Anonymous]

To 21:39, anyone can cheat. Those who think they absolutely never could are especially at risk.

[Anonymous]

2019 poster again. I actually found it really helpful in my own therapy, OP, to visit the issue of betrayal blindness. There is a lot written about it. I came to see that even though there was a lot of good I had learned how to overlook/ not see bad things based on my own issues plus usually people do because it is too much dissonance. This is something to explore but be kind to yourself. I cried the whole first year over it. And it is a long haul. Just really feeling better now.

[Anonymous]

It is completely unacceptable that your husband would shout at you. He is trying to DARVO you - deny, attack, reverse victim and offender. Abusive men often do this when the victim partner is not buying the pretty story/apology. It is a way to intimidate you from asking further questions, and a way to threaten you by making you think that you have some blame in all this. And if you think to yourself, my partner wasn’t abusive - he abused your trust all this time. He manipulated you by not telling you about this woman precisely because he knew that you wouldn’t like it and wouldn’t stay. And now, he is manipulating you again - telling you everything he thinks you want to hear so you don’t leave and shouting and intimidating you when you don’t accept immediately what he is saying.

Sorry to be so blunt. I know it’s probably not what you would like to hear or believe.

A normal person would say, “I feel really overwhelmed by your questions because I don’t really understand myself.” And they would ask for time to see a therapist first. And they would do that without shouting.

I agree his yelling was unacceptable, but strongly disagree that this was a DARVO tactic and that he is shouting and intimidating fir the reasons you stated. I think her DH was being honest. As bad as what he did was, he is a person with feelings. I suspect those feelings now are shame and cognitive dissonance over who he thought he was/wants to be and what he did. I think he did exactly what a normal person under a lot of stress would do - he walked away, and when she chased he was overwhelmed and lost it. Again, it’s not ok but it is understandable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It is completely unacceptable that your husband would shout at you. He is trying to DARVO you - deny, attack, reverse victim and offender. Abusive men often do this when the victim partner is not buying the pretty story/apology. It is a way to intimidate you from asking further questions, and a way to threaten you by making you think that you have some blame in all this. And if you think to yourself, my partner wasn’t abusive - he abused your trust all this time. He manipulated you by not telling you about this woman precisely because he knew that you wouldn’t like it and wouldn’t stay. And now, he is manipulating you again - telling you everything he thinks you want to hear so you don’t leave and shouting and intimidating you when you don’t accept immediately what he is saying.

Sorry to be so blunt. I know it’s probably not what you would like to hear or believe.

A normal person would say, “I feel really overwhelmed by your questions because I don’t really understand myself.” And they would ask for time to see a therapist first. And they would do that without shouting.

I agree his yelling was unacceptable, but strongly disagree that this was a DARVO tactic and that he is shouting and intimidating fir the reasons you stated. I think her DH was being honest. As bad as what he did was, he is a person with feelings. I suspect those feelings now are shame and cognitive dissonance over who he thought he was/wants to be and what he did. I think he did exactly what a normal person under a lot of stress would do - he walked away, and when she chased he was overwhelmed and lost it. Again, it’s not ok but it is understandable.

Making excuses for abusive behavior and “understanding” was exactly what kept me in a relationship with an abuser for far too long.

What I learned from my abusive relationship is that there is never a reason to shout at someone. The person responsible for “losing” it is the person who lost it. Abusers want you to think your behavior provoked them, but every person is responsible for his/her own behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To 21:39, anyone can cheat. Those who think they absolutely never could are especially at risk.

I think you're replying to me and I completely agree with you. Feeling desired, oxytocin, good sex . . . of course these are alluring to everyone, honest or not. That's why I tell my husband, oh hey, my high school boyfriend just messaged me on Instagram . . . that sort of thing. The honesty bit is a safeguard against doing something foolish which would lead to those feelings being too hard to ignore. Being an honest person doesn't mean I'm unacquainted with human nature or think that I'm above it. It's because I understand just how fun an affair would be that I'm honest about the little stuff that could lead to one.

In terms of my husband's affair, yeah, I noticed weird stuff. Like OP's situation, he was drinking a lot, looked stressed out, etc. So of course I asked him what was what, and he said he was just stressed from work. I noticed a notification of a message from a woman I'd never heard of, and of course I asked him about it, and he was all, oh I told you about meeting her, she's just friends with so and so. DDay happened when the OW tried to Facetime him while he was in the shower and I was like, OK buddy, I'm not buying that this person you barely know just accidentally pressed the Facetime button. So after about five minutes he confessed (to an EA of course, when it was really a PA).

Looking back, I could see things I had missed but I'm not sorry that I was a good faith spouse who took him at his word when he told me I had nothing to worry about. I was being the kind of spouse I deserve to have myself. I could have found out a little sooner if I'd, I don't know, gone into secret spy mode, but that would have turned me into someone I don't want to be, and it wouldn't have changed anything. I was correct that I was married to someone who isn't a super smooth liar and who doesn't lie or cheat without compunction. I kept pulling at the threads until the whole tapestry was visible. That's all you can do.

---
Re it's just his guilt or shame acting like a gorilla . . . I mean, yes, obviously, but to me the real take-away is that his "model WS" act is just that . . . he's going through the motions of what he thinks he should be doing. He's not acting from real empathy. And I get that . . . empathy is something you practice and strengthen; you don't develop tons of it in two weeks. Whether his rage was 100% emotional flooding or 100% conscious manipulation, or somewhere in between, doesn't really matter. His intentions don't matter because either way the impact is to create an unsafe space for OP to heal. We're not off the hook for the harm we cause others just because we have big feelings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To 21:39, anyone can cheat. Those who think they absolutely never could are especially at risk.

I think you're replying to me and I completely agree with you. Feeling desired, oxytocin, good sex . . . of course these are alluring to everyone, honest or not. That's why I tell my husband, oh hey, my high school boyfriend just messaged me on Instagram . . . that sort of thing. The honesty bit is a safeguard against doing something foolish which would lead to those feelings being too hard to ignore. Being an honest person doesn't mean I'm unacquainted with human nature or think that I'm above it. It's because I understand just how fun an affair would be that I'm honest about the little stuff that could lead to one.

In terms of my husband's affair, yeah, I noticed weird stuff. Like OP's situation, he was drinking a lot, looked stressed out, etc. So of course I asked him what was what, and he said he was just stressed from work. I noticed a notification of a message from a woman I'd never heard of, and of course I asked him about it, and he was all, oh I told you about meeting her, she's just friends with so and so. DDay happened when the OW tried to Facetime him while he was in the shower and I was like, OK buddy, I'm not buying that this person you barely know just accidentally pressed the Facetime button. So after about five minutes he confessed (to an EA of course, when it was really a PA).

Looking back, I could see things I had missed but I'm not sorry that I was a good faith spouse who took him at his word when he told me I had nothing to worry about. I was being the kind of spouse I deserve to have myself. I could have found out a little sooner if I'd, I don't know, gone into secret spy mode, but that would have turned me into someone I don't want to be, and it wouldn't have changed anything. I was correct that I was married to someone who isn't a super smooth liar and who doesn't lie or cheat without compunction. I kept pulling at the threads until the whole tapestry was visible. That's all you can do.

---
Re it's just his guilt or shame acting like a gorilla . . . I mean, yes, obviously, but to me the real take-away is that his "model WS" act is just that . . . he's going through the motions of what he thinks he should be doing. He's not acting from real empathy. And I get that . . . empathy is something you practice and strengthen; you don't develop tons of it in two weeks. Whether his rage was 100% emotional flooding or 100% conscious manipulation, or somewhere in between, doesn't really matter. His intentions don't matter because either way the impact is to create an unsafe space for OP to heal. We're not off the hook for the harm we cause others just because we have big feelings.

I appreciate this. It’s so sad that people who say they weren’t surprised by their spouse cheating because anyone can have affairs seem to have this superiority about their cynicism, and taking people at their word is, to them, some kind of contemptible naïveté.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

Re: the drinking- there were several spaced out instances (months apart from each other) where he was either drinkng more than he said or it was a weird circumstance surrounding drinking that otherwise didn't add up. I actually just went back through the depths of DCUM and found a post I made about it and almost all the replies tell me he's likely cheating. Dcum knew a year before I did. Feeling like an idiot.

Oh gosh. I remember your post. The secretive drinking… and I remember everyone telling you he was cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

Re: the drinking- there were several spaced out instances (months apart from each other) where he was either drinkng more than he said or it was a weird circumstance surrounding drinking that otherwise didn't add up. I actually just went back through the depths of DCUM and found a post I made about it and almost all the replies tell me he's likely cheating. Dcum knew a year before I did. Feeling like an idiot.

Curious what you did after that post?

I replied "this crossed my mind but he literally never leaves the house so if he is, they must never actually see each other". Ouch.

I did do a brief look through his phone and didn't see anything but he's never had a password and his phone is always out in the open and has never been off limits. We use it for GPS, music around the house, etc.

Here’s the thing. If you were posting a year ago about your husband’s secret drinking, your life hasn’t been so picture perfect. And that is ok. But you seem to be idealizing what you had before you found this out. Don’t do that. I have no idea if this man is worthy of you or not, but a good thing to do in individual therapy might be to do a deeper dive into what was good and what was not good In this relationship.

OP, I went back and found that post, which I also remembered. I think this PP is spot on. Every relationship has its strengths and weaknesses; consider that thread a gift of sorts. You have, in writing, a window into how you felt and what things were like well before you knew about this affair. Take that into account moving forward.

[Anonymous]

We sat down on our lunch breaks today and mapped out all the finances and what a separation would look like logistically with the kids and where he could live and such.

I told him it's so I can fully understand my options and compare what the two futures could look like, but really nagging at me to just walk away. I'm a really kind, supportive, loyal partner and why should I accept anything less than the same?

[Anonymous]

It's really nagging at me*

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We sat down on our lunch breaks today and mapped out all the finances and what a separation would look like logistically with the kids and where he could live and such.

I told him it's so I can fully understand my options and compare what the two futures could look like, but really nagging at me to just walk away. I'm a really kind, supportive, loyal partner and why should I accept anything less than the same?

Way too soon to make a decision. Way too soon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We sat down on our lunch breaks today and mapped out all the finances and what a separation would look like logistically with the kids and where he could live and such.

I told him it's so I can fully understand my options and compare what the two futures could look like, but really nagging at me to just walk away. I'm a really kind, supportive, loyal partner and why should I accept anything less than the same?

Way too soon to make a decision. Way too soon.

Why too soon for an initial separation? Time away from each other could be valuable. This is not divorce, just a trial separation.

[Anonymous]

Starting from the point of you that no one deserves anything in life, which is a point of view you may not share, the reason is that you have children and you can’t always get what you want once you bring new humans into the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

Re: the drinking- there were several spaced out instances (months apart from each other) where he was either drinkng more than he said or it was a weird circumstance surrounding drinking that otherwise didn't add up. I actually just went back through the depths of DCUM and found a post I made about it and almost all the replies tell me he's likely cheating. Dcum knew a year before I did. Feeling like an idiot.

Curious what you did after that post?

I replied "this crossed my mind but he literally never leaves the house so if he is, they must never actually see each other". Ouch.

I did do a brief look through his phone and didn't see anything but he's never had a password and his phone is always out in the open and has never been off limits. We use it for GPS, music around the house, etc.

Here’s the thing. If you were posting a year ago about your husband’s secret drinking, your life hasn’t been so picture perfect. And that is ok. But you seem to be idealizing what you had before you found this out. Don’t do that. I have no idea if this man is worthy of you or not, but a good thing to do in individual therapy might be to do a deeper dive into what was good and what was not good In this relationship.

OP, I went back and found that post, which I also remembered. I think this PP is spot on. Every relationship has its strengths and weaknesses; consider that thread a gift of sorts. You have, in writing, a window into how you felt and what things were like well before you knew about this affair. Take that into account moving forward.

Please post the link

[Anonymous]

Not too soon to be planning. Sometimes you just know it is more than you are willing to endure. I knew right away, but took about 5 weeks to communicate that my decision was to separate and divorce. We stayed in the same house 6 months while we worked out the details. I don’t recommend staying that long.