Van Hollen in El Salvador

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole thing is about due process. He was sent to a prison in El Salvador without being given due process. He needs to return here so that he can go through the due process. The Supreme Court voted 9-0 that he needs to be returned for God's sake. Do you think that the SCOTUS does not understand the laws of this country? Every single one of them voted the same way. Let that sink in.

People can make all kinds of conjectures about his gang membership or whatever, but the fact remains that he was ILLEGALLY sent to El Salvador. He was not "deported". He was merely sent there based on no evidence. This is ILLEGAL. It is FAR more important to hold our government to account than any details of this case. If we let our government do this, we are looking at a government that can do whatever it wants with people. No day in court folks. You are just sent into a black hole somewhere.

Ok. Then they should correct the paperwork errors that made this illegal and send his no good, violent, ugly, gangster self back to the country where he is an actual citizen.

Exactly. If his case is presented in court and he is PROVEN to be a member of MS-13, then fine - send him back. The reason the Trump is resisting Garcia’s return is because they don’t have any proof that would stand up in court.

Again, this isn’t about one person, it’s about preserving due process. Trump isn’t shy about his intent to deport political opponents; this is just a test case.

Why use an alleged terrorist, found with known terrorists, and a wife beater as the test case? Serious question.

Nobody would pick me up on a corner hanging with known terrorists. This guy was not found with choir boys. MS 13 is a designated terror organization. It's not a mere street crew.

[Anonymous]

The Supreme Court did not rule unanimously that he be returned to the US. They ruled that Trump must 'facilitate' his release from custody, and to treat him as if they hadn't made the error. This does not mean return to US, as they would have just sent him to a different country, or kept him in custody and reopened his withholding of removal hearing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ Wihtholding removal order to El Salvador--where is he now?

He was denied bail at first, and later asylum because the allowable time to claim was passed.

Between 2019 and 2025

The info in rollingstone has been reported everywhere

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5252884-deportation-legal-battle/

Further, "Since 2019, when he was released with the protective order, Mr Abrego Garcia's lawyers say he has had yearly check-ins with immigration officials, which he has attended "without fail and without incident"."

So he could be deported theoretically, but not to El SAlvador.

ANd again, WHERE IS HE?

Get it now?

He had check ins because he is DEPORTABLE! That’s the whole point. Citizens don’t check in with immigration. He was not permanently authorized to stay and he knew it.

The check ins were required while he pursued citizenship. If there was a point where he should have been deported, they would have. And again, there was an order that he could not be sent to El Salvador.

Look, just give it up. You are so losing on the facts here.

That’s a laughable claim. He was never eligible for citizenship and that’s why his wife never tried to get him a green card. You can’t get citizenship when you enter illegally and he had already been denied asylum. Citizenship was never on the table.

You are correct that he was in legal limbo--undeportable to EL Salvador but no path to citizenship here. Not sure to resolve that.
But the fact remains, there was a legal order prohibiting sending him to EL Salvador and the Trump admin violated it.

Why no pass to citizenship? If his wife an American citizen, why would she not petition for him to obtain a green card and citizenship?

Just curious, would he be eligible for a green card if he has a criminal history of domestic abuse? If he gets a green card but then commits a crime, is his green card revoked? If he enters the country illegally, is he eligible for a green card?

He's not supposed to be, but the government frequently ignores this. People can overstay a visa, then get a green card.
I know someone whose parents couldn't get a tourist visa because the embassy said they might overstay their visa.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a former Marylander, Van Hollen is way off base here. MS-13 is inside the schools, girls are being kidnapped and trafficked, rival teens are being lured into the woods and stabbed to death. A poor kid was murdered at Lake Forest mall for the crime of wearing a shirt the wrong color. This gang has gutted the once thriving communities of Montgomery Village, Germantown, and much of Gaithersburg. Who exactly is Van Hollen appealing to or protecting? The vast majority of the victims of MS-13 are Hispanic teens. This isn't a white vs POC thing. This is a criminal vs peaceful person thing. He needs to get a clue and talk to Maryland parents who've had pieces of their children returned to them in bags.

Think the Senator Geary in the hearing against Michael Corleone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole thing is about due process. He was sent to a prison in El Salvador without being given due process. He needs to return here so that he can go through the due process. The Supreme Court voted 9-0 that he needs to be returned for God's sake. Do you think that the SCOTUS does not understand the laws of this country? Every single one of them voted the same way. Let that sink in.

People can make all kinds of conjectures about his gang membership or whatever, but the fact remains that he was ILLEGALLY sent to El Salvador. He was not "deported". He was merely sent there based on no evidence. This is ILLEGAL. It is FAR more important to hold our government to account than any details of this case. If we let our government do this, we are looking at a government that can do whatever it wants with people. No day in court folks. You are just sent into a black hole somewhere.

Ok. Then they should correct the paperwork errors that made this illegal and send his no good, violent, ugly, gangster self back to the country where he is an actual citizen.

Have you ever stopped to think about *why* Trump is refusing to bring him back to follow proper procedure/fix the paperwork??

snafu.

Yes. I am aware it is because the sovereign government of El Salvador said no. What do you want, Trump to invade them and kidnap Kilmar?

And so the next time Trump ignores the Supreme court, that will be ok? And when a future Dem leader does, that will be ok?

(note that MAGAs were up in arms over Biden possibly ignoring the Supreme court on student loans but he did adapt approach within existing law so do not even try and say Biden did, as he did not)

Explain to me how you propose that Trump get Kilmar back from a sovereign nation who is refusing to comply, given that he's a citizen. We cant even get US citizens back from Hamas or Russia.

Spitball some solutions. Should we trade Justin Bieber for him? Pay for his release? And to what end? To reprocess his deportation?

NP.

The PP wants the word "facilitate" to mean "effectuate", which the Supreme Court expressly rejected. If the U.S. has a contractual right to ASK for his return, then it could ask - BUT if the President of El Salvador says NO, and the contract does not consider such refusal to be a breach of contract, then that's the end of this entire situation. President Trump could also have an immigration hearing that lifts the protection order on the deportation order (barring deportation to El Salvador), thereby satisfying Due Process and leaving an El Salvador citizen in the custody of his own government.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Supreme Court did not rule unanimously that he be returned to the US. They ruled that Trump must 'facilitate' his release from custody, and to treat him as if they hadn't made the error. This does not mean return to US, as they would have just sent him to a different country, or kept him in custody and reopened his withholding of removal hearing.

So what has Trump done to facilitate his release from custody? Nothing at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole thing is about due process. He was sent to a prison in El Salvador without being given due process. He needs to return here so that he can go through the due process. The Supreme Court voted 9-0 that he needs to be returned for God's sake. Do you think that the SCOTUS does not understand the laws of this country? Every single one of them voted the same way. Let that sink in.

People can make all kinds of conjectures about his gang membership or whatever, but the fact remains that he was ILLEGALLY sent to El Salvador. He was not "deported". He was merely sent there based on no evidence. This is ILLEGAL. It is FAR more important to hold our government to account than any details of this case. If we let our government do this, we are looking at a government that can do whatever it wants with people. No day in court folks. You are just sent into a black hole somewhere.

Ok. Then they should correct the paperwork errors that made this illegal and send his no good, violent, ugly, gangster self back to the country where he is an actual citizen.

Have you ever stopped to think about *why* Trump is refusing to bring him back to follow proper procedure/fix the paperwork??

snafu.

Yes. I am aware it is because the sovereign government of El Salvador said no. What do you want, Trump to invade them and kidnap Kilmar?

And so the next time Trump ignores the Supreme court, that will be ok? And when a future Dem leader does, that will be ok?

(note that MAGAs were up in arms over Biden possibly ignoring the Supreme court on student loans but he did adapt approach within existing law so do not even try and say Biden did, as he did not)

Explain to me how you propose that Trump get Kilmar back from a sovereign nation who is refusing to comply, given that he's a citizen. We cant even get US citizens back from Hamas or Russia.

Spitball some solutions. Should we trade Justin Bieber for him? Pay for his release? And to what end? To reprocess his deportation?

NP.

The PP wants the word "facilitate" to mean "effectuate", which the Supreme Court expressly rejected. If the U.S. has a contractual right to ASK for his return, then it could ask - BUT if the President of El Salvador says NO, and the contract does not consider such refusal to be a breach of contract, then that's the end of this entire situation. President Trump could also have an immigration hearing that lifts the protection order on the deportation order (barring deportation to El Salvador), thereby satisfying Due Process and leaving an El Salvador citizen in the custody of his own government.

If the US is paying, then this is not a foreign policy issue, but a contractual issue. The courts are operating on this assumption, and their orders have been reasonable. The Supreme Court did not say facilitate return but instead facilitate release from custody.
It appears the US is not paying, but the government has not made that representation in court.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole thing is about due process. He was sent to a prison in El Salvador without being given due process. He needs to return here so that he can go through the due process. The Supreme Court voted 9-0 that he needs to be returned for God's sake. Do you think that the SCOTUS does not understand the laws of this country? Every single one of them voted the same way. Let that sink in.

People can make all kinds of conjectures about his gang membership or whatever, but the fact remains that he was ILLEGALLY sent to El Salvador. He was not "deported". He was merely sent there based on no evidence. This is ILLEGAL. It is FAR more important to hold our government to account than any details of this case. If we let our government do this, we are looking at a government that can do whatever it wants with people. No day in court folks. You are just sent into a black hole somewhere.

Ok. Then they should correct the paperwork errors that made this illegal and send his no good, violent, ugly, gangster self back to the country where he is an actual citizen.

Exactly. If his case is presented in court and he is PROVEN to be a member of MS-13, then fine - send him back. The reason the Trump is resisting Garcia’s return is because they don’t have any proof that would stand up in court.

Again, this isn’t about one person, it’s about preserving due process. Trump isn’t shy about his intent to deport political opponents; this is just a test case.

Why use an alleged terrorist, found with known terrorists, and a wife beater as the test case? Serious question.

Nobody would pick me up on a corner hanging with known terrorists. This guy was not found with choir boys. MS 13 is a designated terror organization. It's not a mere street crew.

If he was a dangerous “terrorist” would Bukele have allowed him to sit at cafe with Van Hollen for a photo op?

[Anonymous]

Van Hollen is here having drinks with an MS-13 member. Not just any member but one from the Westerns clique, with a rank of Cheoque and gang name of Chele.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole thing is about due process. He was sent to a prison in El Salvador without being given due process. He needs to return here so that he can go through the due process. The Supreme Court voted 9-0 that he needs to be returned for God's sake. Do you think that the SCOTUS does not understand the laws of this country? Every single one of them voted the same way. Let that sink in.

People can make all kinds of conjectures about his gang membership or whatever, but the fact remains that he was ILLEGALLY sent to El Salvador. He was not "deported". He was merely sent there based on no evidence. This is ILLEGAL. It is FAR more important to hold our government to account than any details of this case. If we let our government do this, we are looking at a government that can do whatever it wants with people. No day in court folks. You are just sent into a black hole somewhere.

Ok. Then they should correct the paperwork errors that made this illegal and send his no good, violent, ugly, gangster self back to the country where he is an actual citizen.

Exactly. If his case is presented in court and he is PROVEN to be a member of MS-13, then fine - send him back. The reason the Trump is resisting Garcia’s return is because they don’t have any proof that would stand up in court.

Again, this isn’t about one person, it’s about preserving due process. Trump isn’t shy about his intent to deport political opponents; this is just a test case.

Why use an alleged terrorist, found with known terrorists, and a wife beater as the test case? Serious question.

Nobody would pick me up on a corner hanging with known terrorists. This guy was not found with choir boys. MS 13 is a designated terror organization. It's not a mere street crew.

If he was a dangerous “terrorist” would Bukele have allowed him to sit at cafe with Van Hollen for a photo op?

Because security was out of the camera shot. Bukele wanted Van Hollen to get his photo op to prove that Garcia is alive and well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole thing is about due process. He was sent to a prison in El Salvador without being given due process. He needs to return here so that he can go through the due process. The Supreme Court voted 9-0 that he needs to be returned for God's sake. Do you think that the SCOTUS does not understand the laws of this country? Every single one of them voted the same way. Let that sink in.

People can make all kinds of conjectures about his gang membership or whatever, but the fact remains that he was ILLEGALLY sent to El Salvador. He was not "deported". He was merely sent there based on no evidence. This is ILLEGAL. It is FAR more important to hold our government to account than any details of this case. If we let our government do this, we are looking at a government that can do whatever it wants with people. No day in court folks. You are just sent into a black hole somewhere.

Ok. Then they should correct the paperwork errors that made this illegal and send his no good, violent, ugly, gangster self back to the country where he is an actual citizen.

Have you ever stopped to think about *why* Trump is refusing to bring him back to follow proper procedure/fix the paperwork??

snafu.

Yes. I am aware it is because the sovereign government of El Salvador said no. What do you want, Trump to invade them and kidnap Kilmar?

And so the next time Trump ignores the Supreme court, that will be ok? And when a future Dem leader does, that will be ok?

(note that MAGAs were up in arms over Biden possibly ignoring the Supreme court on student loans but he did adapt approach within existing law so do not even try and say Biden did, as he did not)

Explain to me how you propose that Trump get Kilmar back from a sovereign nation who is refusing to comply, given that he's a citizen. We cant even get US citizens back from Hamas or Russia.

Spitball some solutions. Should we trade Justin Bieber for him? Pay for his release? And to what end? To reprocess his deportation?

I think someone from the administration should make a call to someone in the El Salvador government and say “we made a mistake can we have him back.” Bring him back, then process his deportation properly dotting all the i’s and crossing all the t’s, then send him packing. That is what a rule of law abiding administration would do. Everybody wins that say. We follow the rules and also rid ourselves of a wife beating gang member.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole thing is about due process. He was sent to a prison in El Salvador without being given due process. He needs to return here so that he can go through the due process. The Supreme Court voted 9-0 that he needs to be returned for God's sake. Do you think that the SCOTUS does not understand the laws of this country? Every single one of them voted the same way. Let that sink in.

People can make all kinds of conjectures about his gang membership or whatever, but the fact remains that he was ILLEGALLY sent to El Salvador. He was not "deported". He was merely sent there based on no evidence. This is ILLEGAL. It is FAR more important to hold our government to account than any details of this case. If we let our government do this, we are looking at a government that can do whatever it wants with people. No day in court folks. You are just sent into a black hole somewhere.

Ok. Then they should correct the paperwork errors that made this illegal and send his no good, violent, ugly, gangster self back to the country where he is an actual citizen.

Exactly. If his case is presented in court and he is PROVEN to be a member of MS-13, then fine - send him back. The reason the Trump is resisting Garcia’s return is because they don’t have any proof that would stand up in court.

Again, this isn’t about one person, it’s about preserving due process. Trump isn’t shy about his intent to deport political opponents; this is just a test case.

Why use an alleged terrorist, found with known terrorists, and a wife beater as the test case? Serious question.

Nobody would pick me up on a corner hanging with known terrorists. This guy was not found with choir boys. MS 13 is a designated terror organization. It's not a mere street crew.

The dummies in the current administration chose him by sending him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole thing is about due process. He was sent to a prison in El Salvador without being given due process. He needs to return here so that he can go through the due process. The Supreme Court voted 9-0 that he needs to be returned for God's sake. Do you think that the SCOTUS does not understand the laws of this country? Every single one of them voted the same way. Let that sink in.

People can make all kinds of conjectures about his gang membership or whatever, but the fact remains that he was ILLEGALLY sent to El Salvador. He was not "deported". He was merely sent there based on no evidence. This is ILLEGAL. It is FAR more important to hold our government to account than any details of this case. If we let our government do this, we are looking at a government that can do whatever it wants with people. No day in court folks. You are just sent into a black hole somewhere.

Ok. Then they should correct the paperwork errors that made this illegal and send his no good, violent, ugly, gangster self back to the country where he is an actual citizen.

Have you ever stopped to think about *why* Trump is refusing to bring him back to follow proper procedure/fix the paperwork??

snafu.

Yes. I am aware it is because the sovereign government of El Salvador said no. What do you want, Trump to invade them and kidnap Kilmar?

And so the next time Trump ignores the Supreme court, that will be ok? And when a future Dem leader does, that will be ok?

(note that MAGAs were up in arms over Biden possibly ignoring the Supreme court on student loans but he did adapt approach within existing law so do not even try and say Biden did, as he did not)

Explain to me how you propose that Trump get Kilmar back from a sovereign nation who is refusing to comply, given that he's a citizen. We cant even get US citizens back from Hamas or Russia.

Spitball some solutions. Should we trade Justin Bieber for him? Pay for his release? And to what end? To reprocess his deportation?

NP.

The PP wants the word "facilitate" to mean "effectuate", which the Supreme Court expressly rejected. If the U.S. has a contractual right to ASK for his return, then it could ask - BUT if the President of El Salvador says NO, and the contract does not consider such refusal to be a breach of contract, then that's the end of this entire situation. President Trump could also have an immigration hearing that lifts the protection order on the deportation order (barring deportation to El Salvador), thereby satisfying Due Process and leaving an El Salvador citizen in the custody of his own government.

Then just hold an immigration hearing in absentia.

Trump can order the immigration judge to rule how he wants because immigration judges are merely employees of the DOJ; nothing more.

Or AG Bondi could certify the case to herself, and make the judge’s ruling in accordance with trump’s wishes. It would all be perfectly legal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole thing is about due process. He was sent to a prison in El Salvador without being given due process. He needs to return here so that he can go through the due process. The Supreme Court voted 9-0 that he needs to be returned for God's sake. Do you think that the SCOTUS does not understand the laws of this country? Every single one of them voted the same way. Let that sink in.

People can make all kinds of conjectures about his gang membership or whatever, but the fact remains that he was ILLEGALLY sent to El Salvador. He was not "deported". He was merely sent there based on no evidence. This is ILLEGAL. It is FAR more important to hold our government to account than any details of this case. If we let our government do this, we are looking at a government that can do whatever it wants with people. No day in court folks. You are just sent into a black hole somewhere.

Ok. Then they should correct the paperwork errors that made this illegal and send his no good, violent, ugly, gangster self back to the country where he is an actual citizen.

Exactly. If his case is presented in court and he is PROVEN to be a member of MS-13, then fine - send him back. The reason the Trump is resisting Garcia’s return is because they don’t have any proof that would stand up in court.

Again, this isn’t about one person, it’s about preserving due process. Trump isn’t shy about his intent to deport political opponents; this is just a test case.

Why use an alleged terrorist, found with known terrorists, and a wife beater as the test case? Serious question.

Nobody would pick me up on a corner hanging with known terrorists. This guy was not found with choir boys. MS 13 is a designated terror organization. It's not a mere street crew.

The dummies in the current administration chose him by sending him.

Interesting. Then leading to Dems falling over themselves to play footsies with a known terrorist for photo ops. Coincidence?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole thing is about due process. He was sent to a prison in El Salvador without being given due process. He needs to return here so that he can go through the due process. The Supreme Court voted 9-0 that he needs to be returned for God's sake. Do you think that the SCOTUS does not understand the laws of this country? Every single one of them voted the same way. Let that sink in.

People can make all kinds of conjectures about his gang membership or whatever, but the fact remains that he was ILLEGALLY sent to El Salvador. He was not "deported". He was merely sent there based on no evidence. This is ILLEGAL. It is FAR more important to hold our government to account than any details of this case. If we let our government do this, we are looking at a government that can do whatever it wants with people. No day in court folks. You are just sent into a black hole somewhere.

Ok. Then they should correct the paperwork errors that made this illegal and send his no good, violent, ugly, gangster self back to the country where he is an actual citizen.

Have you ever stopped to think about *why* Trump is refusing to bring him back to follow proper procedure/fix the paperwork??

snafu.

Yes. I am aware it is because the sovereign government of El Salvador said no. What do you want, Trump to invade them and kidnap Kilmar?

And so the next time Trump ignores the Supreme court, that will be ok? And when a future Dem leader does, that will be ok?

(note that MAGAs were up in arms over Biden possibly ignoring the Supreme court on student loans but he did adapt approach within existing law so do not even try and say Biden did, as he did not)

Explain to me how you propose that Trump get Kilmar back from a sovereign nation who is refusing to comply, given that he's a citizen. We cant even get US citizens back from Hamas or Russia.

Spitball some solutions. Should we trade Justin Bieber for him? Pay for his release? And to what end? To reprocess his deportation?

NP.

The PP wants the word "facilitate" to mean "effectuate", which the Supreme Court expressly rejected. If the U.S. has a contractual right to ASK for his return, then it could ask - BUT if the President of El Salvador says NO, and the contract does not consider such refusal to be a breach of contract, then that's the end of this entire situation. President Trump could also have an immigration hearing that lifts the protection order on the deportation order (barring deportation to El Salvador), thereby satisfying Due Process and leaving an El Salvador citizen in the custody of his own government.

Then just hold an immigration hearing in absentia.

Trump can order the immigration judge to rule how he wants because immigration judges are merely employees of the DOJ; nothing more.

Or AG Bondi could certify the case to herself, and make the judge’s ruling in accordance with trump’s wishes. It would all be perfectly legal.

Well, they could hold an immigration hearing virtually. If the result is removal of the deportation hold, then he stays put.