Hidden emotional abuse

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again. Here is a classic example of the "quiet" way he does this stuff. We had rented a pontoon boat as we were staying in a lake house for a week. He was driving the boat (the first thing he got involved in on this vacation), and was driving straight down the middle of the lake very fast. It was a large lake, and I wanted to meander a little and look at all of the beautiful homes on the coast line. So I asked him if on the way back to our lake house we could go slower and a little closer to the shore so I could take some pictures, see the sights, etc. He said, very sarcastically, "yeah, maybe there is a parkway straight back to the lake house with a speed limit you would like"...or something like that but it was quietly said under his breath as I stood next to him and he was being mean because he interprets anyone saying ANYTHING about something he is doing as murder to his ego. So I refused to engage in front of the kids and just walked away....then that gave him more fodder to criticize me for "not taking a joke".

Our whole married life he has made "jokes" at my expense, that are really just thinly veiled (or not so thinly veiled) nasty remarks that are in no way funny and are said meanly. But then he can turn around when I'm angry and say I just can't take a joke, when I see through his shit now.

He kept on under his breath, and the other 6 people on the boat had no idea it was happening, and I went to the back of the boat and sat looking out at the water wanting to jump in and get away from him. I'm just so tired, and like I said above, I want to be free.

I am so sorry OP, another poster who can relate. Husband has ADHD (and may be on the spectrum) and so much of what you and other posters write rings true to my ears! I have even had a subtle fight on a pontoon boat that left me crying silently in the corner while trying to compose myself, him seemingly oblivious and the others on the boat uncomfortable.

as other posters recommend, learn more about NT/AT relationships. set boundaries. keep your calm, and center yourself. In the situation you described, I have taken to limited responses, don't take the bait. respond "well that was rude" and move on. He wants to try and re-engage you about "not taking a joke" just repeat "well that joke hurt my feelings" focus on I statements I feel X when you do Y. Don't get emotional, be clear and concise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. No I won’t list examples and and the dirty details. I don’t care that people here want to do the same thing to me that he has done for years (spin it so it looks like my anger at his crap is the cause of the problem instead of my Anger being the result of the things he does )

I don’t need DCUM to confirm this is emotional abuse and really happening , and no it’s not rolling of the eyes . I wish. It’s a persistent pattern of severe disrespect in many forms and it has only gotten worse as I don’t just keep my mouth shut and still be the doormat like I used to.

My only reason for posting was to see if anyone had any experience about the “hidden” aspect of it all. But true to form, DCUM didn’t disappoint by acting like jerks .

Yes I spent years with a very charming and intelligent narcissist. It wasn’t until I started counselling by myself that I realised how abusive some behaviours were. Marriage counselling didn’t work because he would be able to manipulate the therapists into thinking it was also my fault. Truth is nothing I did justified his behaviours. Often I wouldn’t even remember exactly what he did and I couldn’t explain it well to the therapist or friends because of cognitive dissonance as a result of his gaslighting. So I started writing everything down in a journal while it was fresh in my memory.

I do think that it would be helpful to have some examples provided because it would help us to give you better advice. You can change details obviously.

OP here. Thanks for the information. There is constant sarcasm, mocking me under his breath, nasty looks, ignoring regular conversations I start (just chatting), but responding to others, Constant annoyed tone as if I'm just SOOO stupid, just acting like a jerk to me in general when I'm talking. Opposing, correcting, and putting down every single thing I talk about, or ignoring it altogether. I recently started a new part time job and he has never asked me one question about how it is going. Not once.

I feel the same as you PP in that I don't know if I can explain it well. Although there have been more blatant things like giving us all the silent treatment when he gets a bug up his ass about something at work, or someone didn't shut the DAMN BACK DOOR (his words) fast enough for him, etc. We have gone on family walks or bike rides many times where he disappears and goes off by himself leaving the kid's reactions and hurt to deal with on my own. 90% of the time he is in a miserable mood and snaps at the kids for very little things.

Rest assured that I've had many many discussions with him about this stuff, and he says he will change, but then never does. I asked at one point why he was so angry with me, and the world in general, and he said he wasn't angry. After a ruined family vacation, I told him he needed to either get help or get out, and he said he would. Of course, he hasn't.


He "jokes" in a demeaning way. Any time I call him on his passive aggressive language or nastiness, he says he was "just joking". In my opinion, that's just another form of gaslighting; Acting like he wasn't just a complete jerk to me.

He blew up at my youngest the other day, in an extreme way. Then he stormed out and drove away for hours because she called him a jerk for screaming the way he did. My older son had guests outside and they probably heard the whole thing. He refuses to parent my youngest and undermines any parenting I do. She is a challenge and I have asked for him to meet with the therapist with me to get on the same page, and he ignores me, and just acts like a domineering jerk to her which makes her challenges harder to deal with, and makes my life harder in the process.

Then days like today he will arrive home in a jolly mood and act like nothing happened the other 90 % of the time that he is miserable to be around. And the kids love it, and it pisses me the F off because nothing has changed for me and the last 10 years of my life have been hell living with him.

How did I ever believe he wouldn't turn into his father? He is just like him.

OP, I am the PP above, and I'm so sorry you're going through this. I 100% get it. The mean "jokes" and the gaslighting is toxic and traumatic. I bet he also wonders "what is wrong with you" if you're still upset with his behavior once he has "moved on". Or asks "why can't you move on from arguments". At least that's what mine did.

I would advise you to get a good therapist that specializes in abusive relationships and see her a few times by yourself. Then you can maybe invite your husband as a form of "marriage counselling". This is what I did, I told him it's marriage counselling (but it wasn't really) and the therapist was very skilled in getting him to sit out the session/s. The purpose of those few sessions was for her to tell me if there is any hope that he will change or whether I should get out.

It helped me tremendously that a qualified professional could see his behavior for themselves and told me he is narcissistic. She helped me how to set boundaries, which eventually strengthened my confidence enough to leave.

[Anonymous]

Most abuse (emotional and physical) is hidden because it gives the abuser an "out".

Get a divorce. See a lawyer about how to avoid spousal support, get advice on how to move forward. You don't have to live like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So sorry Op. I suffer the same chronic abuse and have young children.

Where is the line between aspergers and narcissism? The put downs and his anger/yelling and nasty looks never stop. There’s no way he is or also a bully at work.

People with Aspbergers either don't realize they're being rude/abusive, or they realize (because they have learned through observation) but don't know how to not be rude. Their behavior is not done with malicious intent.

People who are narcissistic are both fully aware that they're abusive and rude, and they know how not to be (as during the dating phase). They fully understand other people's feelings but just don't give a sh.t.

[Anonymous]

That said a pompous asperger can also be a narcissist. My way or the highway wifey! She crazy everyone!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds hereditary- his father, him, possibly your difficult youngest daughter or the sons.

Read up on NT/AS relationships or www.theneurotypical.com

Does he have any deep or meaningful relationships? Or just talk shop or TV shows or news articles? Can he discuss anything if feelings are mentioned or involved? Or stonewall or get angry and deflect?

NP here. OP, I empathize because I have posted before, and gotten the "DCUM Treatment" (in short, gaslighting for being gaslit). I was actually reluctant to post, until I saw so many PP's in the same situation. All the intangibles, all the social and emotional issues that come about as a result of being with someone like this, for so long.

This PP's posting really helped, and reignited my interest in the subject. Some periods are worse than others, and (for example) being around DH's family brings out the worst in him, because they constantly treat him as a second (or third or fourth) thought. They do not include him in family events (before DCUM tries to pile it on, as they do - it has nothing to do with me, I get along with his family just fine). So many items on the referenced list (posted above) - naively gullible; terrible driver (her gets screamed at constantly on the road, it is dangerous), oblivious to others' feelings, touch averse, poor impulse control, "lack of understanding that they don't understand", they are always right, interpret everything literally, do not take your existing knowledge into consideration, rigid routines, same foods every day, present as "Mr. Nice Guy", same phone game for hours upon hours upon hours each day, emotional deprivation, fooling marriage counselors into taking their side, and more.

Sadly, the NT spouse gets the brunt of the rage (unable to process emotions properly or without rage). And yes, one or both of his parents are the same. I suspect that DC may have been lucky to have escaped, but DH still tries to triangulate, and creates a volatile situation whenever possible. If I left, the kids would have no college, frankly (I have run the numbers, before DCUM tries to pee on that, too).

It is always a relief to find out you are not alone in this terrible situation, OP. We didn't ask for this. Research will tell you that spouses with these traits are perfectly capable of presenting normally (ie: when dating).

OMG. Every single one of these describes my husband. I'm sort of shocked seeing this in writing describing anyone other than him. This is oddly validating and supremely sad all at once. I'm going to dive into those resources. But literally Every. Single. One. of those traits he possesses. Sigh....

Welcome to getting out of the fog in high functioning autism and verbal abuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My father was very similar to the OPs DH. My siblings and I were thrilled when they divorced and we didn't have to live with him. I'd encourage women who have allowed themselves to become dependent on their abusive spouses to figure out how to support themselves financially and take ownership of their lives and take care of their chidlren. My mother was lower middle class and she managed to leave him and raise us as a single mom and give us a very nice life.

I know that I am going to get flamed for this. But to the OP and all of the ladies with similar husbands, was this behavior really so well hidden that there were no signs before marriage and children? My mother was pressured to get married young and has shared with me that she ignored some signs of my father's issues. She still managed to be a great mom despite him and the only thing I slightly resent from time to time is that she chose him to be our father. Staying with an abusive spouse because you are unable to support yourself is not being a good parent in my experience. Flame away.

No flaming here..and I’m the Op. I spend a lot of time in therapy figuring out why I married him and how I could have been so stupid and then learning to do forgive myself so I can be a good mother to my children despite all of that . All of the signs were definitely there. I was 19 when we started dating and wish I wasn’t so young and stupid back then. To only know one tenth of what I know now would have been helpful

[Anonymous]

NP. I was totally blindsided by his love bombing and mental disorders I knew nothing about. Now I know the whole dam DSM.

I made the usual excuses: He’s a guy; cultural differences; His parents don’t talk much; Different/lack of life experiences; Inexperienced; book smart counts! Blah blah narc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can guarantee, if he gives you silent treatment, your kids will have noticed.

My dad used to do this when he got upset. I didn't realize it was abuse at the time, but I always noticed when it was happening and felt the tension.

He'd do it for a few days and then one day just magically start talking.

The most vivid thing I remember about 9/11 is that my dad was giving the silent treatment at the time. My mom was in Boston for work and grounded there. She had a cellphone and my dad did as well, but my siblings and I didn't. His phone rang a few times and it was her number, but he wouldn't answer or let us answer. She finally got through on the landline hours later to speak with me and my siblings. He wouldn't speak with her.

At some point did you and your subs get therapy?

Did you date and marry similar men to your father (silent, no emotion, emotionally abusive, doesn’t talk much, etc.) ?

Or did you go with the opposite?

In my experience, I see more women than men giving violent treatments and that's an emotional abuse. Women are also the one that holds sex in lieu of something else which is messed up and an abuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op, if you are angry at your husband, that’s one thing.

But you should not take your anger at your husband out on your kids. My mom did that to me. Dad was frequently absent and cheating and she was unhappy and took her unhappy feelings out on me. She was in a bad mood and I bore the brunt.

My mom did this to me and my siblings as well. There is significant amount of verbal abuse from her towards my dad and us. My father wasn't making a lot of money and mom wasn't working(back in India) and she made sure to belittle him every day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. No I won’t list examples and and the dirty details. I don’t care that people here want to do the same thing to me that he has done for years (spin it so it looks like my anger at his crap is the cause of the problem instead of my Anger being the result of the things he does )

I don’t need DCUM to confirm this is emotional abuse and really happening , and no it’s not rolling of the eyes . I wish. It’s a persistent pattern of severe disrespect in many forms and it has only gotten worse as I don’t just keep my mouth shut and still be the doormat like I used to.

My only reason for posting was to see if anyone had any experience about the “hidden” aspect of it all. But true to form, DCUM didn’t disappoint by acting like jerks .

Eh... if you come onto a forum saying “I’ve been vaguely abused, you must agree despite my not giving any evidence for such abuse” and then have THAT reaction to people’s skepticism, I’m going to go ahead and say you need to take another really hard look at whether your not emotionally abusive as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can guarantee, if he gives you silent treatment, your kids will have noticed.

My dad used to do this when he got upset. I didn't realize it was abuse at the time, but I always noticed when it was happening and felt the tension.

He'd do it for a few days and then one day just magically start talking.

The most vivid thing I remember about 9/11 is that my dad was giving the silent treatment at the time. My mom was in Boston for work and grounded there. She had a cellphone and my dad did as well, but my siblings and I didn't. His phone rang a few times and it was her number, but he wouldn't answer or let us answer. She finally got through on the landline hours later to speak with me and my siblings. He wouldn't speak with her.

At some point did you and your subs get therapy?

Did you date and marry similar men to your father (silent, no emotion, emotionally abusive, doesn’t talk much, etc.) ?

Or did you go with the opposite?

In my experience, I see more women than men giving violent treatments and that's an emotional abuse. Women are also the one that holds sex in lieu of something else which is messed up and an abuse.

And who are you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. No I won’t list examples and and the dirty details. I don’t care that people here want to do the same thing to me that he has done for years (spin it so it looks like my anger at his crap is the cause of the problem instead of my Anger being the result of the things he does )

I don’t need DCUM to confirm this is emotional abuse and really happening , and no it’s not rolling of the eyes . I wish. It’s a persistent pattern of severe disrespect in many forms and it has only gotten worse as I don’t just keep my mouth shut and still be the doormat like I used to.

My only reason for posting was to see if anyone had any experience about the “hidden” aspect of it all. But true to form, DCUM didn’t disappoint by acting like jerks .

Eh... if you come onto a forum saying “I’ve been vaguely abused, you must agree despite my not giving any evidence for such abuse” and then have THAT reaction to people’s skepticism, I’m going to go ahead and say you need to take another really hard look at whether your not emotionally abusive as well.

Ok you do you. The rest of us are going to continue the conversation, bc we've lived exactly what she's talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My father was very similar to the OPs DH. My siblings and I were thrilled when they divorced and we didn't have to live with him. I'd encourage women who have allowed themselves to become dependent on their abusive spouses to figure out how to support themselves financially and take ownership of their lives and take care of their chidlren. My mother was lower middle class and she managed to leave him and raise us as a single mom and give us a very nice life.

I know that I am going to get flamed for this. But to the OP and all of the ladies with similar husbands, was this behavior really so well hidden that there were no signs before marriage and children? My mother was pressured to get married young and has shared with me that she ignored some signs of my father's issues. She still managed to be a great mom despite him and the only thing I slightly resent from time to time is that she chose him to be our father. Staying with an abusive spouse because you are unable to support yourself is not being a good parent in my experience. Flame away.

No flaming here..and I’m the Op. I spend a lot of time in therapy figuring out why I married him and how I could have been so stupid and then learning to do forgive myself so I can be a good mother to my children despite all of that . All of the signs were definitely there. I was 19 when we started dating and wish I wasn’t so young and stupid back then. To only know one tenth of what I know now would have been helpful

NP, but a PP with a similar husband giving my experience (I commented above with the ADHD maybe aspie DH and the similar pontoon fight!)

100% I rationalized red flags because of my own baggage, I was insecure in love, and he love bombed me (look up this term if you are unfamiliar) and it felt so good to be so loved, I was wooed. He was amazingly doting and caring during our courtship. I saw hints of his emotional outburst but they were infrequent and mild which didn't outweigh all the wonderful positive qualities (fun, loving, caring, thoughtful etc) I was naive about how challenging marriages can be between NT/AT partners. I didn't know a lot then that I know now.

Then you add marriage and children, and neuro-atypical spouses are no longer to hold it together as they did during the (easy carefree) days of courtship. Their fuse shortens, they are no longer as loving and attentive, they get mean, they try and hurt you because they feel hurt. I felt so much regret about my choice - but as the OP mentioned above, I have been working on self-acceptance and self-compassion. I was young and broken too, I made a choice at that time that made sense to me. I can't go back and change that. It is part of my journey.

I have done a lot of work on the last few years to heal the baggage that i brought into this relationship. If I knew now what i know about myself and my baggage, I would not have married him. But I can't change the past, I have a life and family that I love, but a marriage that is flailing, and I am working on how to love him how he is, working on my boundaries and what I will and won't tolerate.

It's hard, but I also see his outburts as an AT spouse, not a narcist - as a PP pointed out the difference being they are don't done with the intent to be malicious. It's like being married to a toddler who can't control their emotions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. I was totally blindsided by his love bombing and mental disorders I knew nothing about. Now I know the whole dam DSM.

I made the usual excuses: He’s a guy; cultural differences; His parents don’t talk much; Different/lack of life experiences; Inexperienced; book smart counts! Blah blah narc.

HUGE red flag. If his parents hated each other (but the family doesn't admit it) - it becomes your problem, sadly.