Big law mom with little kids

[Anonymous]

Surgeon mama here with my spouse being an ER doc. It iwas indescribably hard to manage our careers and our two kid's (2 and 7), especially with Covid. But, when Covid hit, we switched to a live-in and had paid her extra to be covid-conscious during her off-time. We also hired a chef, and a child coach just to make sure our kid's are OK and she plans amazing enrichment activities for them. Laundry service was also added this year. Yes, it is expensive but we were pulling 1 1/2 shifts to keep up with the crazy demand with Covid. The hardest was my husband traveling to NY to help out with their surge. I was basically despondent but that was when we kicked child care into high gear and switched to a live-in. Good luck OP and all the other high career parent's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yep, this. I made partner last year in my ninth year, with a 5 and 3 year old (and another on the way now), and it is certainly thanks to a wonderful (driving) nanny who works 60-ish hrs a week and a 3-days-a-week housekeeper who does our grocery store runs and almost all cooking. We outsource everything else too -- yard work, home repair, etc. All of this is a huge hit to our income but we love our jobs (husband is fed but works nonstop) and can entirely focus on the kids for an hour each morning and 2-3 hours a night...before logging back on . I don't think it is sustainable for 30 years, but it's fun for now, keeps all career doors open, and the kids seem really happy and proud of us.

Plus being in biglaw means I control my own working hours and can take the kids to soccer, swimming, etc. at random times each week -- even random museum/zoo trips when things are slow. The flexibility of biglaw is surprisingly suitable to erratic kid schedules. Go girl!

I would only say this anonymously (thanks, dcum), but... how do you know your kids are proud of you? My husband is an engineer currently working at home, and I do part-time editing also from home, and my daughter (4) sees us doing these things, having phone calls, going out to meetings, etc., but it does not seem at all to be something on her radar, let alone something to be "proud" of. I mean, are you leading your children with questions like "aren't you proud of mommy for having a big job?"

Yeah, your kids are not proud of you, and if they were, it wouldn't mean anything.

That said, the women I knew who navigated biglaw as parents of young kids had nannies who worked 60 hours a week and handled drop-offs and pickups. Also, anecdotally, most of them left to go in-house or to government because they just got sick of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“did any big law moms get asked to be pushed back a year”

This is a huge flag. Whenever this happened at my firm, the person was being shown the door, just in a humane way that allowed the person sufficient time to find a new job. I would absolutely be hitting the job market and looking for something that was more compatible with my lifestyle.

Agreed about this. This isn't mommy-tracked, this is performance-tracking and you need to be hunting for another job STAT. Not trying to be mean but if you don't, you'll be out next time work is a little slow in your dept.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Surgeon mama here with my spouse being an ER doc. It iwas indescribably hard to manage our careers and our two kid's (2 and 7), especially with Covid. But, when Covid hit, we switched to a live-in and had paid her extra to be covid-conscious during her off-time. We also hired a chef, and a child coach just to make sure our kid's are OK and she plans amazing enrichment activities for them. Laundry service was also added this year. Yes, it is expensive but we were pulling 1 1/2 shifts to keep up with the crazy demand with Covid. The hardest was my husband traveling to NY to help out with their surge. I was basically despondent but that was when we kicked child care into high gear and switched to a live-in. Good luck OP and all the other high career parent's.

Thanks for all your family did for all of us. That sounds absolutely brutal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yep, this. I made partner last year in my ninth year, with a 5 and 3 year old (and another on the way now), and it is certainly thanks to a wonderful (driving) nanny who works 60-ish hrs a week and a 3-days-a-week housekeeper who does our grocery store runs and almost all cooking. We outsource everything else too -- yard work, home repair, etc. All of this is a huge hit to our income but we love our jobs (husband is fed but works nonstop) and can entirely focus on the kids for an hour each morning and 2-3 hours a night...before logging back on . I don't think it is sustainable for 30 years, but it's fun for now, keeps all career doors open, and the kids seem really happy and proud of us.

Plus being in biglaw means I control my own working hours and can take the kids to soccer, swimming, etc. at random times each week -- even random museum/zoo trips when things are slow. The flexibility of biglaw is surprisingly suitable to erratic kid schedules. Go girl!

I would only say this anonymously (thanks, dcum), but... how do you know your kids are proud of you? My husband is an engineer currently working at home, and I do part-time editing also from home, and my daughter (4) sees us doing these things, having phone calls, going out to meetings, etc., but it does not seem at all to be something on her radar, let alone something to be "proud" of. I mean, are you leading your children with questions like "aren't you proud of mommy for having a big job?"

My parents both had big jobs. I was and am still proud of them. I also really missed having more time with them and don't want my kids to feel that way. We had a great nanny, but we didn't want a nanny to be the primary architect of our kids' lives and character. I left to work P/T at an NGO and DH is FT Big Law. That works for us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yep, this. I made partner last year in my ninth year, with a 5 and 3 year old (and another on the way now), and it is certainly thanks to a wonderful (driving) nanny who works 60-ish hrs a week and a 3-days-a-week housekeeper who does our grocery store runs and almost all cooking. We outsource everything else too -- yard work, home repair, etc. All of this is a huge hit to our income but we love our jobs (husband is fed but works nonstop) and can entirely focus on the kids for an hour each morning and 2-3 hours a night...before logging back on . I don't think it is sustainable for 30 years, but it's fun for now, keeps all career doors open, and the kids seem really happy and proud of us.

Plus being in biglaw means I control my own working hours and can take the kids to soccer, swimming, etc. at random times each week -- even random museum/zoo trips when things are slow. The flexibility of biglaw is surprisingly suitable to erratic kid schedules. Go girl!

I would only say this anonymously (thanks, dcum), but... how do you know your kids are proud of you? My husband is an engineer currently working at home, and I do part-time editing also from home, and my daughter (4) sees us doing these things, having phone calls, going out to meetings, etc., but it does not seem at all to be something on her radar, let alone something to be "proud" of. I mean, are you leading your children with questions like "aren't you proud of mommy for having a big job?"

No, we don't ask questions like the one you posed - mainly because we are always trying to talk about how important all jobs are...teachers, nannies, trash collectors, etc., especially my two siblings at non-profits -- so I wouldn't want them to think my job or a "big job" is something they should strive for. It's not haha. But we definitely have fed them a certain narrative by reading lots of books about women who had a big impact through their jobs (RBG, Jane Goodall, Eugenie Clark). And I try really hard to normalize working...when I read the million other books that have the moms cooking dinner or saying bye to dad in the morning, I will add, "and her mom, who had just gotten home from her job at the hospital, made a wonderful blueberry pie."

I guess I say "proud" because when I made partner they were beyond excited and threw me a bunch of tea parties, and they keep asking us to come to class and tell everyone about our (very boring, typical) jobs. But when we are in bed together or sitting at the dinner table we aren't talking about mom's big job.

[Anonymous]

I was so proud of my mom and her big job. She had a secretary! I thought that was amazing.

I’m in biglaw now and my 8 yr old is very proud. She knows what a deposition is and why I take them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Keep going, mama. You can do this. My tween girls are so proud of their successful mama and I think it has been so good for them to have this as a model. As a result, they dream big for themselves. We do lots of talks in our house about the importance of education, providing value in the world and the importance of giving back. I have nothing but respect for SAHMs but if women keep mommy-tracking in droves, what does that teach our girls? How can we tell them to dream big, be whatever they want to be, and then model the opposite?

Good luck to you - outsource outsource outsource the grunt work. Use your time for quality 1:1 with your kids and not chores.

Because big law is contributing so much to the world and is something to be super proud of...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Keep going, mama. You can do this. My tween girls are so proud of their successful mama and I think it has been so good for them to have this as a model. As a result, they dream big for themselves. We do lots of talks in our house about the importance of education, providing value in the world and the importance of giving back. I have nothing but respect for SAHMs but if women keep mommy-tracking in droves, what does that teach our girls? How can we tell them to dream big, be whatever they want to be, and then model the opposite?

Good luck to you - outsource outsource outsource the grunt work. Use your time for quality 1:1 with your kids and not chores.

Because big law is contributing so much to the world and is something to be super proud of...

DP but another biglaw lawyer and you'd be surprised how much litigation against unconstitutional and/or inhumane policy is spearheaded by, funded by, or at least supported by big law firms and lawyers. I feel much better about what I'm "contributing to the world" than most of my colleagues who've moved in-house, where the only goal is profit maximization.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Keep going, mama. You can do this. My tween girls are so proud of their successful mama and I think it has been so good for them to have this as a model. As a result, they dream big for themselves. We do lots of talks in our house about the importance of education, providing value in the world and the importance of giving back. I have nothing but respect for SAHMs but if women keep mommy-tracking in droves, what does that teach our girls? How can we tell them to dream big, be whatever they want to be, and then model the opposite?

Good luck to you - outsource outsource outsource the grunt work. Use your time for quality 1:1 with your kids and not chores.

Because big law is contributing so much to the world and is something to be super proud of...

DP but another biglaw lawyer and you'd be surprised how much litigation against unconstitutional and/or inhumane policy is spearheaded by, funded by, or at least supported by big law firms and lawyers. I feel much better about what I'm "contributing to the world" than most of my colleagues who've moved in-house, where the only goal is profit maximization.

You are really overgeneralizing here. I am in-house and I spend most of my time directly helping small family-owned businesses. I absolutely LOVE that about my job. My biglaw job had a lot more high-profile pro bono work, but I do a lot more work helping people who need it in my current position.

The core issue here is being held back, I find that much more worrisome for the OP than her contributions to society or her childcare arrangements, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yep, this. I made partner last year in my ninth year, with a 5 and 3 year old (and another on the way now), and it is certainly thanks to a wonderful (driving) nanny who works 60-ish hrs a week and a 3-days-a-week housekeeper who does our grocery store runs and almost all cooking. We outsource everything else too -- yard work, home repair, etc. All of this is a huge hit to our income but we love our jobs (husband is fed but works nonstop) and can entirely focus on the kids for an hour each morning and 2-3 hours a night...before logging back on . I don't think it is sustainable for 30 years, but it's fun for now, keeps all career doors open, and the kids seem really happy and proud of us.

Plus being in biglaw means I control my own working hours and can take the kids to soccer, swimming, etc. at random times each week -- even random museum/zoo trips when things are slow. The flexibility of biglaw is surprisingly suitable to erratic kid schedules. Go girl!

I would only say this anonymously (thanks, dcum), but... how do you know your kids are proud of you? My husband is an engineer currently working at home, and I do part-time editing also from home, and my daughter (4) sees us doing these things, having phone calls, going out to meetings, etc., but it does not seem at all to be something on her radar, let alone something to be "proud" of. I mean, are you leading your children with questions like "aren't you proud of mommy for having a big job?"

Yeah, your kids are not proud of you, and if they were, it wouldn't mean anything.

That said, the women I knew who navigated biglaw as parents of young kids had nannies who worked 60 hours a week and handled drop-offs and pickups. Also, anecdotally, most of them left to go in-house or to government because they just got sick of it.

In fairness, most people I know ended up doing the same- even those single or those without kids. I know 1 person who made big law partner (a woman) and another who made partner at a smaller firm with his father's name on the door (so take that for what its worth). Its a grind, no matter how you get there- both have spouses that work PT

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yep, this. I made partner last year in my ninth year, with a 5 and 3 year old (and another on the way now), and it is certainly thanks to a wonderful (driving) nanny who works 60-ish hrs a week and a 3-days-a-week housekeeper who does our grocery store runs and almost all cooking. We outsource everything else too -- yard work, home repair, etc. All of this is a huge hit to our income but we love our jobs (husband is fed but works nonstop) and can entirely focus on the kids for an hour each morning and 2-3 hours a night...before logging back on . I don't think it is sustainable for 30 years, but it's fun for now, keeps all career doors open, and the kids seem really happy and proud of us.

Plus being in biglaw means I control my own working hours and can take the kids to soccer, swimming, etc. at random times each week -- even random museum/zoo trips when things are slow. The flexibility of biglaw is surprisingly suitable to erratic kid schedules. Go girl!

I would only say this anonymously (thanks, dcum), but... how do you know your kids are proud of you? My husband is an engineer currently working at home, and I do part-time editing also from home, and my daughter (4) sees us doing these things, having phone calls, going out to meetings, etc., but it does not seem at all to be something on her radar, let alone something to be "proud" of. I mean, are you leading your children with questions like "aren't you proud of mommy for having a big job?"

No, we don't ask questions like the one you posed - mainly because we are always trying to talk about how important all jobs are...teachers, nannies, trash collectors, etc., especially my two siblings at non-profits -- so I wouldn't want them to think my job or a "big job" is something they should strive for. It's not haha. But we definitely have fed them a certain narrative by reading lots of books about women who had a big impact through their jobs (RBG, Jane Goodall, Eugenie Clark). And I try really hard to normalize working...when I read the million other books that have the moms cooking dinner or saying bye to dad in the morning, I will add, "and her mom, who had just gotten home from her job at the hospital, made a wonderful blueberry pie."

I guess I say "proud" because when I made partner they were beyond excited and threw me a bunch of tea parties, and they keep asking us to come to class and tell everyone about our (very boring, typical) jobs. But when we are in bed together or sitting at the dinner table we aren't talking about mom's big job.

I think it is very abnormal for a 3 and 5 year old (or a child even younger), to keep asking you to come to class and tell their classmates about your jobs.

[Anonymous]

I think the answer is always that you need more help, whether you "hire yourself" or hire other people. Step one is making sure your kids are safe and cared for all the time, and then after that you have to keep hiring up to the standard of care that you want/can afford, or else do it yourself which means leaving or stepping back from your job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yep, this. I made partner last year in my ninth year, with a 5 and 3 year old (and another on the way now), and it is certainly thanks to a wonderful (driving) nanny who works 60-ish hrs a week and a 3-days-a-week housekeeper who does our grocery store runs and almost all cooking. We outsource everything else too -- yard work, home repair, etc. All of this is a huge hit to our income but we love our jobs (husband is fed but works nonstop) and can entirely focus on the kids for an hour each morning and 2-3 hours a night...before logging back on . I don't think it is sustainable for 30 years, but it's fun for now, keeps all career doors open, and the kids seem really happy and proud of us.

Plus being in biglaw means I control my own working hours and can take the kids to soccer, swimming, etc. at random times each week -- even random museum/zoo trips when things are slow. The flexibility of biglaw is surprisingly suitable to erratic kid schedules. Go girl!

I would only say this anonymously (thanks, dcum), but... how do you know your kids are proud of you? My husband is an engineer currently working at home, and I do part-time editing also from home, and my daughter (4) sees us doing these things, having phone calls, going out to meetings, etc., but it does not seem at all to be something on her radar, let alone something to be "proud" of. I mean, are you leading your children with questions like "aren't you proud of mommy for having a big job?"

No, we don't ask questions like the one you posed - mainly because we are always trying to talk about how important all jobs are...teachers, nannies, trash collectors, etc., especially my two siblings at non-profits -- so I wouldn't want them to think my job or a "big job" is something they should strive for. It's not haha. But we definitely have fed them a certain narrative by reading lots of books about women who had a big impact through their jobs (RBG, Jane Goodall, Eugenie Clark). And I try really hard to normalize working...when I read the million other books that have the moms cooking dinner or saying bye to dad in the morning, I will add, "and her mom, who had just gotten home from her job at the hospital, made a wonderful blueberry pie."

I guess I say "proud" because when I made partner they were beyond excited and threw me a bunch of tea parties, and they keep asking us to come to class and tell everyone about our (very boring, typical) jobs. But when we are in bed together or sitting at the dinner table we aren't talking about mom's big job.

I think it is very abnormal for a 3 and 5 year old (or a child even younger), to keep asking you to come to class and tell their classmates about your jobs.

Oh, I don't think it is. Kids love show and tell! Moms and dads have always been part of show and tell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The core issue here is being held back, I find that much more worrisome for the OP than her contributions to society or her childcare arrangements, though.

+1 - didn't see OP's later question about firms that ask to push/hold you back a year. At my firm, this is usually only done if an associate has been slacking for a few years (the typical penalty for not meeting hours is no bonus) and it is an indication that you either need to bust your ass or start considering alternatives (for many people, it makes them discouraged or angry enough to leave, or convinces them to ask for a reduced hours or off-track arrangement). If it happened following a year you were either pregnant or took parental leave, and you have an otherwise stellar record, then the problem isn't the difficulty handling biglaw v. parenting. The problem is your law firm. Lateral somewhere more supportive if you want to stay in biglaw.