Big law mom with little kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here: did any big law moms get asked to be pushed back a year? As in, you were going to be a 5th year, but at your review they said you needed to be held back and stay as a 4th year? If so, what did you do? Is that a sign you are being mommy-tracked?

I was a big law partner and this means at least what it looks like: your performance is not on par with your peers and you’re being held back. May or may not relate to mommy-trackedness. This is a difficult burden to overcome.

+ 1 - and I will add that making partner will be entirely contingent on bringing in business. I watched my SIL go through this. It took them many years to fire her but they finally did. She would have been infinitely better off charting a different path years earlier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nanny, how do you find a job like that? Sounds like you're basically being paid to be a SAHM.

My female bosses often joke that I am their “wife” because yeah, I am a lot like a SAHM. I have been a nanny for over a decade and I gradually worked my way to higher-paying jobs. I love my work and since I don’t have kids of my own I can throw myself into my nanny kids.

And it's hugely valuable work so you should get paid well.

When I was in law years ago all the women joked that we needed a wife at home. That was the model in the 50's and 60's. The work didn't go away and husbands working full-time sure didn't pick it up. We need to be truthful about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's is what the women partners told me before I became a partner: you can't be both. If you want to stay in the practice and succeed, delegate, delegate, delegate, both at home and at work, but mostly at home. You need back up plans for your back up plans. Some had various combinations of the following: live in parents, nannies, au pairs, SAH or flexible spouses, always full child care coverage options (not always needed, but always available) from 7-10 pm, plus weekends; cleaners; laundry service; food delivery, meal prep (several had home chefs or full service housekeeping); tutors; sometimes drivers for the kids.

I would have walked out the door right then and there.

When are you delusional women going to realize that you are being asked to "delegate out" the very fabric of your lives?

Well, I wouldn't put it like that, but I had the same reaction. Cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, drop-off/pick-up, working with your kids on schoolwork - aren't all those things just....life? What is it teaching your kids when you pay people to do everything for you? Doing many of these tasks is a huge part of being and growing together and developing as a family. Some of my family's best conversations are during "chore" times, not during yay! fun! time!

Good for you?

Everyone has different wants, needs, and beliefs. You don't value an elite career with high earning potential and that's fine. Other people do and are willing to employ the village to help them. Let them be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's is what the women partners told me before I became a partner: you can't be both. If you want to stay in the practice and succeed, delegate, delegate, delegate, both at home and at work, but mostly at home. You need back up plans for your back up plans. Some had various combinations of the following: live in parents, nannies, au pairs, SAH or flexible spouses, always full child care coverage options (not always needed, but always available) from 7-10 pm, plus weekends; cleaners; laundry service; food delivery, meal prep (several had home chefs or full service housekeeping); tutors; sometimes drivers for the kids.

I would have walked out the door right then and there.

When are you delusional women going to realize that you are being asked to "delegate out" the very fabric of your lives?

Well, I wouldn't put it like that, but I had the same reaction. Cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, drop-off/pick-up, working with your kids on schoolwork - aren't all those things just....life? What is it teaching your kids when you pay people to do everything for you? Doing many of these tasks is a huge part of being and growing together and developing as a family. Some of my family's best conversations are during "chore" times, not during yay! fun! time!

Good for you?

Everyone has different wants, needs, and beliefs. You don't value an elite career with high earning potential and that's fine. Other people do and are willing to employ the village to help them. Let them be.

I'm a mom that made partner in biglaw. I agree that you can't have it all. However, in my experience the choices are not work versus being a mom. In my case, the thing I have given up is a robust social life. My time is divided between work, kids (especially on the weekends) and sneaking in work outs and me time (reading, tv) when I can. The thing I've given up to make this work is a social life. I used to have lots of friends and now I don't have a lot.

So I reject that the only 'give up' in your life is time being a parent.

Also, there are household chores I don't do but frankly I"m thrilled not to. Things like deep cleaning and car pooling. I am thrilled that life gives me the option to get to work in an office rather than cleaning my house. That makes me happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's is what the women partners told me before I became a partner: you can't be both. If you want to stay in the practice and succeed, delegate, delegate, delegate, both at home and at work, but mostly at home. You need back up plans for your back up plans. Some had various combinations of the following: live in parents, nannies, au pairs, SAH or flexible spouses, always full child care coverage options (not always needed, but always available) from 7-10 pm, plus weekends; cleaners; laundry service; food delivery, meal prep (several had home chefs or full service housekeeping); tutors; sometimes drivers for the kids.

I would have walked out the door right then and there.

When are you delusional women going to realize that you are being asked to "delegate out" the very fabric of your lives?

Well, I wouldn't put it like that, but I had the same reaction. Cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, drop-off/pick-up, working with your kids on schoolwork - aren't all those things just....life? What is it teaching your kids when you pay people to do everything for you? Doing many of these tasks is a huge part of being and growing together and developing as a family. Some of my family's best conversations are during "chore" times, not during yay! fun! time!

Good for you?

Everyone has different wants, needs, and beliefs. You don't value an elite career with high earning potential and that's fine. Other people do and are willing to employ the village to help them. Let them be.

Call it what you want, but the village is pretty much raising the children in such situations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's is what the women partners told me before I became a partner: you can't be both. If you want to stay in the practice and succeed, delegate, delegate, delegate, both at home and at work, but mostly at home. You need back up plans for your back up plans. Some had various combinations of the following: live in parents, nannies, au pairs, SAH or flexible spouses, always full child care coverage options (not always needed, but always available) from 7-10 pm, plus weekends; cleaners; laundry service; food delivery, meal prep (several had home chefs or full service housekeeping); tutors; sometimes drivers for the kids.

I would have walked out the door right then and there.

When are you delusional women going to realize that you are being asked to "delegate out" the very fabric of your lives?

Truly devastated that "cleaners; laundry service; food delivery, meal prep" and lawn service are not the fabric of my life.

What amount of time with your children is the fabric of your life?

Honestly? Only 1-2 hours a day are “fabric” quality and the rest (cleaning, yardwork, grocery store) I would very gladly do without

So you're falling for the myth that there is quality time (with kids) and non-quality time. This is a lie. There is only time. If you find drudgery in chores that make up life, then that is on you. I assure you, young children do not see it that way.

I don't think that's right. There is a big difference between the time spent, for example, cooking where you can (at best) pay nominal attention to the kid and time spent actively playing or reading with the kid.

I don’t agree. It is a valid life decision to have a high intense job and we certainly should not be criticizing women for doing so (especially when men are not given such scrutiny), but 2-3 hours of “quality time” is not the same as being around all of the time but not actively involved.

Why have kids if not going to spend much time with them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's is what the women partners told me before I became a partner: you can't be both. If you want to stay in the practice and succeed, delegate, delegate, delegate, both at home and at work, but mostly at home. You need back up plans for your back up plans. Some had various combinations of the following: live in parents, nannies, au pairs, SAH or flexible spouses, always full child care coverage options (not always needed, but always available) from 7-10 pm, plus weekends; cleaners; laundry service; food delivery, meal prep (several had home chefs or full service housekeeping); tutors; sometimes drivers for the kids.

I would have walked out the door right then and there.

When are you delusional women going to realize that you are being asked to "delegate out" the very fabric of your lives?

Well, I wouldn't put it like that, but I had the same reaction. Cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, drop-off/pick-up, working with your kids on schoolwork - aren't all those things just....life? What is it teaching your kids when you pay people to do everything for you? Doing many of these tasks is a huge part of being and growing together and developing as a family. Some of my family's best conversations are during "chore" times, not during yay! fun! time!

Good for you?

Everyone has different wants, needs, and beliefs. You don't value an elite career with high earning potential and that's fine. Other people do and are willing to employ the village to help them. Let them be.

I'm a mom that made partner in biglaw. I agree that you can't have it all. However, in my experience the choices are not work versus being a mom. In my case, the thing I have given up is a robust social life. My time is divided between work, kids (especially on the weekends) and sneaking in work outs and me time (reading, tv) when I can. The thing I've given up to make this work is a social life. I used to have lots of friends and now I don't have a lot.

So I reject that the only 'give up' in your life is time being a parent.

Also, there are household chores I don't do but frankly I"m thrilled not to. Things like deep cleaning and car pooling. I am thrilled that life gives me the option to get to work in an office rather than cleaning my house. That makes me happy.

Jesus Christ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's is what the women partners told me before I became a partner: you can't be both. If you want to stay in the practice and succeed, delegate, delegate, delegate, both at home and at work, but mostly at home. You need back up plans for your back up plans. Some had various combinations of the following: live in parents, nannies, au pairs, SAH or flexible spouses, always full child care coverage options (not always needed, but always available) from 7-10 pm, plus weekends; cleaners; laundry service; food delivery, meal prep (several had home chefs or full service housekeeping); tutors; sometimes drivers for the kids.

I would have walked out the door right then and there.

When are you delusional women going to realize that you are being asked to "delegate out" the very fabric of your lives?

Well, I wouldn't put it like that, but I had the same reaction. Cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, drop-off/pick-up, working with your kids on schoolwork - aren't all those things just....life? What is it teaching your kids when you pay people to do everything for you? Doing many of these tasks is a huge part of being and growing together and developing as a family. Some of my family's best conversations are during "chore" times, not during yay! fun! time!

Good for you?

Everyone has different wants, needs, and beliefs. You don't value an elite career with high earning potential and that's fine. Other people do and are willing to employ the village to help them. Let them be.

I'm a mom that made partner in biglaw. I agree that you can't have it all. However, in my experience the choices are not work versus being a mom. In my case, the thing I have given up is a robust social life. My time is divided between work, kids (especially on the weekends) and sneaking in work outs and me time (reading, tv) when I can. The thing I've given up to make this work is a social life. I used to have lots of friends and now I don't have a lot.

So I reject that the only 'give up' in your life is time being a parent.

Also, there are household chores I don't do but frankly I"m thrilled not to. Things like deep cleaning and car pooling. I am thrilled that life gives me the option to get to work in an office rather than cleaning my house. That makes me happy.

Jesus Christ.

Why? I'm not big law and I made the same choice. Honestly, I am happier with my social life confined to my family. Different strokes for different folks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's is what the women partners told me before I became a partner: you can't be both. If you want to stay in the practice and succeed, delegate, delegate, delegate, both at home and at work, but mostly at home. You need back up plans for your back up plans. Some had various combinations of the following: live in parents, nannies, au pairs, SAH or flexible spouses, always full child care coverage options (not always needed, but always available) from 7-10 pm, plus weekends; cleaners; laundry service; food delivery, meal prep (several had home chefs or full service housekeeping); tutors; sometimes drivers for the kids.

I would have walked out the door right then and there.

When are you delusional women going to realize that you are being asked to "delegate out" the very fabric of your lives?

Well, I wouldn't put it like that, but I had the same reaction. Cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, drop-off/pick-up, working with your kids on schoolwork - aren't all those things just....life? What is it teaching your kids when you pay people to do everything for you? Doing many of these tasks is a huge part of being and growing together and developing as a family. Some of my family's best conversations are during "chore" times, not during yay! fun! time!

Good for you?

Everyone has different wants, needs, and beliefs. You don't value an elite career with high earning potential and that's fine. Other people do and are willing to employ the village to help them. Let them be.

I'm a mom that made partner in biglaw. I agree that you can't have it all. However, in my experience the choices are not work versus being a mom. In my case, the thing I have given up is a robust social life. My time is divided between work, kids (especially on the weekends) and sneaking in work outs and me time (reading, tv) when I can. The thing I've given up to make this work is a social life. I used to have lots of friends and now I don't have a lot.

So I reject that the only 'give up' in your life is time being a parent.

Also, there are household chores I don't do but frankly I"m thrilled not to. Things like deep cleaning and car pooling. I am thrilled that life gives me the option to get to work in an office rather than cleaning my house. That makes me happy.

Jesus Christ.

So what do you think should be given up?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nanny here. I have worked for multiple families where both parents had big jobs (including two lawyers at white shoe firms, one who made partner when the kids were toddlers).

You need a full-service nanny. That means someone who can drive and is willing to work longer hours and handle the majority of logistics relating to kids. If you really really love your current, non-driving nanny and she isn’t too expensive then I would maybe consider keeping her and hiring someone else to do pick-up 5 days a week and work evenings, but it will be easier overall if it’s all the same person.

E.g., my current charges are 4 and 5. They are in full-day preschool and I work 7:30am-5:30pm M/W/F and 7:30-7:30 Tu/Th. Mom does bedtime on weekends and Wednesdays and Dad does Monday and Friday. That means mom can work as late as needed any work night but Wednesday and dad can work late any Tu/W/Th. I do drop-off and pickup by default but if either parent is having a light day they will take the kids to school, but I pack lunches and make sure the kids are dressed and all that while the parents get dressed and have breakfast.

I am paid during school hours and use that time to manage all kid laundry, do grocery shopping twice a week, make 100% of kids’ food, pack lunches for the parents, and stay on top of kid logistics—scheduling doctor/dentist/etc., making sure we never run out of toothpaste, handling sick days home from school and school holidays, and registering for summer camp and remembering when it is pajama day and all that constant buzz of stuff that you have to plan and prepare and remember for kids.

I am paid very well ($75,000 per year) for my services, and someone like me is hard to find but it is worth it if your goal is to build a major career without a SAH spouse.

This is good advice and money well spent if you want to go all in on your career. Personally I didn’t but it’s a valid choice either way.

You sound awesome, PP! I would be so happy to have someone else remember pajama day! Do you buy birthday presents for their friends' parties, too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:. We do lots of talks in our house about the importance of education, providing value in the world and the importance of giving back. I have nothing but respect for SAHMs but if women keep mommy-tracking in droves, what does that teach our girls? How can we tell them to dream big, be whatever they want to be, and then model the opposite?

Well, being a SAHM mom is what I wanted to be for a couple of decades while I paused being in the paid workforce - it was my big dream.

Former SAHM here (returned to full time professional job after raising them) - we also talk about the importance of education, providing value and giving back, along with making intentional choices about doing what brings us joy. We talk about strategically taking risks and weighing what is important to us and to prioritize what gives our lives meaning rather than doing what society thinks we should or what everyone else is doing or what others deem is worthwhile to do.

I got my law degree, worked as a lawyer, then did the full-time mom thing for awhile before returning to working as a lawyer. I modeled being a woman who decided my joy was being home full-time for a finite period of time and returning to paid work later. It modeled critical thinking, risk assessment, strategic planning for career re-entry after a gap, and basically having the guts to take a risk to do a short-term job that I knew would not be available forever (because the opportunity to be home with the kids has an expiration date). My girls will make their own choices about what brings them joy. It is not a once size fits all.

I have nothing but respect for working moms, but not every job is the fulfillment of a big dream and not every working person has become the person they wanted to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:. We do lots of talks in our house about the importance of education, providing value in the world and the importance of giving back. I have nothing but respect for SAHMs but if women keep mommy-tracking in droves, what does that teach our girls? How can we tell them to dream big, be whatever they want to be, and then model the opposite?

Well, being a SAHM mom is what I wanted to be for a couple of decades while I paused being in the paid workforce - it was my big dream.

Former SAHM here (returned to full time professional job after raising them) - we also talk about the importance of education, providing value and giving back, along with making intentional choices about doing what brings us joy. We talk about strategically taking risks and weighing what is important to us and to prioritize what gives our lives meaning rather than doing what society thinks we should or what everyone else is doing or what others deem is worthwhile to do.

I got my law degree, worked as a lawyer, then did the full-time mom thing for awhile before returning to working as a lawyer. I modeled being a woman who decided my joy was being home full-time for a finite period of time and returning to paid work later. It modeled critical thinking, risk assessment, strategic planning for career re-entry after a gap, and basically having the guts to take a risk to do a short-term job that I knew would not be available forever (because the opportunity to be home with the kids has an expiration date). My girls will make their own choices about what brings them joy. It is not a once size fits all.

I have nothing but respect for working moms, but not every job is the fulfillment of a big dream and not every working person has become the person they wanted to be.

Good for you. You sound pretty defensive though. My post that you quoted above was meant to support the OP, not for you to take personally. you also sound pretty privileged. Not all of us can choose to stay home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:. We do lots of talks in our house about the importance of education, providing value in the world and the importance of giving back. I have nothing but respect for SAHMs but if women keep mommy-tracking in droves, what does that teach our girls? How can we tell them to dream big, be whatever they want to be, and then model the opposite?

Well, being a SAHM mom is what I wanted to be for a couple of decades while I paused being in the paid workforce - it was my big dream.

Former SAHM here (returned to full time professional job after raising them) - we also talk about the importance of education, providing value and giving back, along with making intentional choices about doing what brings us joy. We talk about strategically taking risks and weighing what is important to us and to prioritize what gives our lives meaning rather than doing what society thinks we should or what everyone else is doing or what others deem is worthwhile to do.

I got my law degree, worked as a lawyer, then did the full-time mom thing for awhile before returning to working as a lawyer. I modeled being a woman who decided my joy was being home full-time for a finite period of time and returning to paid work later. It modeled critical thinking, risk assessment, strategic planning for career re-entry after a gap, and basically having the guts to take a risk to do a short-term job that I knew would not be available forever (because the opportunity to be home with the kids has an expiration date). My girls will make their own choices about what brings them joy. It is not a once size fits all.

I have nothing but respect for working moms, but not every job is the fulfillment of a big dream and not every working person has become the person they wanted to be.

Good for you. You sound pretty defensive though. My post that you quoted above was meant to support the OP, not for you to take personally. you also sound pretty privileged. Not all of us can choose to stay home.

I don't think that's what PP is suggesting at all. Plenty of us need to work and/or want to work outside the home. No one HAS to have an intense career.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Everyone has different wants, needs, and beliefs. You don't value an elite career with high earning potential and that's fine. Other people do and are willing to employ the village to help them. Let them be.

Call it what you want, but the village is pretty much raising the children in such situations.

+1 Ew don't call your hired help "the village." In an actual "village," you wouldn't get to go off doing something else for 8+ hrs a day while other women raise your child for you.

[Anonymous]

Biglaw PP, do you really view your work as "giving back"? Or do you mean being able to use the $$ to make charitable donations etc.?

Former biglaw atty here and just curious.