Thrivers (book), raising kids in a pressure cooker area

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To what extent do you think that laid back parents can raise laid back kids in this regard, even when surrounded by pressure-cooker families? DH and I are pretty non-competitive when it comes to work and school. We both have jobs that are intellectually stimulating, we read a lot, have academic and social interests, but couldn't care less if our kids are at the top of their class/make the competitive sports team/ etc. I like to think we can raise kids who don't feel the need to keep up with their peers in some of the ways being discussed here, but they're still young and so I don't know if we're being totally naive.

I think you can but you have to be intentional about it, recognize that - especially once in middle and high school -- they will be getting all these competition messages from school/peers so you need to talk about that and reinforce that it is ok to go against the flow.

DH and I are both pretty laid back people but I think could have easily fallen into the go-go ECs mindset prevalent in the area but our kids are very strong willed and from an early age insisted on doing things their way.

DD was the only little girl who didn't do soccer or t-ball or dance or any of the standard little-kid activities. She went to two dance classes at 3 years old and then refused to go again. She just wanted to play outside or do art so we followed her interests, went hiking a lot, signed her up for art classes. Eventually she asked to do a sport and did fencing for a while but again no interest in doing it at an intense level, much to her coach's disappointment. As a teen she's still mainly interested in hiking, nature-related volunteer work, and art. But, she doesn't want to do art at school where it will become an obligation rather than a relaxing hobby.

She was always a top student and we never pushed, were fine with her approach to ECs, are happy for her to go to any college that fits her interests and ambitions (which will not be T20-type schools). Still, she had a massive melt down early this year about the pressure to get into a top school, to get all As in a bunch of AP classes, worrying that she's falling behind because she's getting a B in a 10th grade AP class. I realized that while we are not putting that pressure on her it is endemic in her high school. So we had to talk about the ridiculous expectations people put on kids, that you can get into a good college without doing all this stuff and that even those who practically kill themselves doing all of it are still a long shot for those tippy-top ranked schools. We encouraged her to pick APs for 11th just for the subjects she loves and buck the expectation of her peers that you take 4+ APs in junior year. She seems to be feeling better but we continue to talk about it.

DS also took his own path with ECs, preferring to spend time on a couple things at a hobby level, refusing any competitive engagement with them. He still had plenty to talk about in college essays and is happily going to Virginia Tech in the Fall. He had excellent grades and a bunch of AP classes but only in subjects of interest and never even took an honors-level science class because those required a science project and he hates doing science projects.

I just started reading this book and it seems like we did do a lot of what they suggest to nurture self-confidence (that's the first chapter)... Notice what actually interests your kids and nurture that, don't emphasize competition, provide space to focus on one thing.

Thank you for sharing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you can do real low-key if you truly do not care about getting your kid into a top college (like it would be cool with you but you'd be absolutely cool with something else too) and are just really confident your kid will be just fine. I have not yet reached that stage.

I admit that there is a little parental ego in there, but there is also the realization that it does matter. Good colleges give you a leg up. It's a competitive world out there and at some point, my kids will have to compete. They're not going to have trust funds that set them up for life.

I'd like to not play the game, but I have seen others go ahead of me, and I see that it works for these kids whose parents have pushed them a lot with carefully crafted activities and academics. Parents wouldn't do it if it didn't work. This is the message that colleges are sending.

So like a lot of parents out there, I have taken the middle road, not dropping out of the game, but giving a lot of thought as to when to push, what routes to take and when to say "no, that's insane, I'm not pushing my kid to do that in second grade."

I wish it could be like I was a kid and we really didn't think about college until HS, and it was still fine. I got into a top college. In the end, students today are no smarter, more ready for the world than they were 20 years ago despite all the "accomplishments". But it's hard to push back against societal forces on your own.

It is true that you can't be low key if you don't care if your kid doesn't go to a T20 school. But why in the name of all that is holy should you care if your kid goes to a T20 school? Of course you should be PROUD of a kid who wants that for themselves and is a driven type who does all the things to go to that kind of school. But there is no reason you should think it is important to a child's happiness and success as an adult that they go to a T20 school. I think I really understood that when I married my DH, who went to his state school, which was totally non-competitive to get in. And look at us - we ended up in the same place, married to each other. He is smart, successful, and happy. That is what I want for my kids, and the route I took (fancy school) isn't the only path. Really, it isn't.

Your point is fine but it’s not true even to say that you need to be DCUM crazy to help your kid get into a T20 school.

It may even be counterproductive to be DCUM crazy (from a college perspective, much less the other ones discussed here)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you can widen your perspective as to what is a "good" college. I think if you are a parent who went to a highly ranked school (which you probably wouldn't have gotten into today) it can be harder to accept that lots of colleges can lead to a solid career and a happy life but that is the reality. Give yourself some credit that your success was not about you than your specific college.

DH and I both went to regional public universities and have done well. I had to turn down big name schools because of the cost. Now I see that HS classmates who went to those seem to be doing about the same. I also see that my work peers went to a wide range of colleges. My kids will be fine.

This.
I got an engineering degree and master’s from VT. My DH went to a small private and got a degree in computer science. We are doing quite well for ourselves. Not everyone has to go to an Ivy to be successful in life, but that really seems to be a pervasive attitude with some of the parents we’ve met here. We are both late gen-Xers with parents who were involved and encouraging, but definitely not pushy.
Both of us are from small-town areas, and we are very concerned with the level of competitiveness we see in the school systems in this area. Our kids aren’t old enough for this to be an issue yet, but we are getting there.

I promised myself I wouldn’t get caught up in it but you are right, it is hard. And it starts early. The whole AAP is crazy stupid and demoralizing for most involved. My kid in an AAP class knew in third grade (not from us by the way), that the expectations were higher for the “advanced kids.” I fretted over my other kid “only” being in advanced math but gen ed. And for what? Kids absorb this from a young age.

While a lot about APS frustrates me I'm glad they don't have an AAP type program. My 5th grade DD once gave me a detailed breakdown of her school cafeteria and her take on the different groups and subgroups that sat at which tables and her and her BFFs places within those. I was surprised that there was no group that in my day would have been the brains/nerds/smart kids/etc. and asked her about that. Her take was "everyone is smart".

[Anonymous]

Parents are so involved with their kids nowadays, it’s insane. My mom had no idea who my friends were and frankly, didn’t care. She would get home from work and make dinner while smoking a cigarette and gossiping on the phone with my aunt. I played sports but didn’t do anything competitively until I was in middle school and then I had to pick one sport because we couldn’t afford more than that. The only books we had in the house were by Danielle Steel. My parents and I lived on different planets, and that was just fine. I went to college, I have a good job, and my parents and I have a good relationship. Now there’s all this pressure. People taking constant photos of their kids, scheduling their days and packing them full of classes.There’s also fear permeating everything. The kids can’t go outside by themselves, parents are calling teachers to check in on schoolwork, nobody can afford to make mistakes. No wonder these kids are so anxious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parents are so involved with their kids nowadays, it’s insane. My mom had no idea who my friends were and frankly, didn’t care. She would get home from work and make dinner while smoking a cigarette and gossiping on the phone with my aunt. I played sports but didn’t do anything competitively until I was in middle school and then I had to pick one sport because we couldn’t afford more than that. The only books we had in the house were by Danielle Steel. My parents and I lived on different planets, and that was just fine. I went to college, I have a good job, and my parents and I have a good relationship. Now there’s all this pressure. People taking constant photos of their kids, scheduling their days and packing them full of classes.There’s also fear permeating everything. The kids can’t go outside by themselves, parents are calling teachers to check in on schoolwork, nobody can afford to make mistakes. No wonder these kids are so anxious.

It’s a different world. In some ways, our kids have it better. At the same time, I grieve for the fact that they won’t have as carefree a childhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents are so involved with their kids nowadays, it’s insane. My mom had no idea who my friends were and frankly, didn’t care. She would get home from work and make dinner while smoking a cigarette and gossiping on the phone with my aunt. I played sports but didn’t do anything competitively until I was in middle school and then I had to pick one sport because we couldn’t afford more than that. The only books we had in the house were by Danielle Steel. My parents and I lived on different planets, and that was just fine. I went to college, I have a good job, and my parents and I have a good relationship. Now there’s all this pressure. People taking constant photos of their kids, scheduling their days and packing them full of classes.There’s also fear permeating everything. The kids can’t go outside by themselves, parents are calling teachers to check in on schoolwork, nobody can afford to make mistakes. No wonder these kids are so anxious.

It’s a different world. In some ways, our kids have it better. At the same time, I grieve for the fact that they won’t have as carefree a childhood.

NP. How do our kids have it better?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents are so involved with their kids nowadays, it’s insane. My mom had no idea who my friends were and frankly, didn’t care. She would get home from work and make dinner while smoking a cigarette and gossiping on the phone with my aunt. I played sports but didn’t do anything competitively until I was in middle school and then I had to pick one sport because we couldn’t afford more than that. The only books we had in the house were by Danielle Steel. My parents and I lived on different planets, and that was just fine. I went to college, I have a good job, and my parents and I have a good relationship. Now there’s all this pressure. People taking constant photos of their kids, scheduling their days and packing them full of classes.There’s also fear permeating everything. The kids can’t go outside by themselves, parents are calling teachers to check in on schoolwork, nobody can afford to make mistakes. No wonder these kids are so anxious.

In what way would you say they have it better?

It’s a different world. In some ways, our kids have it better. At the same time, I grieve for the fact that they won’t have as carefree a childhood.

[Anonymous]

Related: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/merit-blake-smith?fbclid=IwAR0_S0mIH7gLpRcpdypuFS5mOM7eP83gwuYk8R5-pI-MWz66sjyR0K9vVG4

[Anonymous]

My kids don’t exhibit any of this. It’s pushed by the parents. Just love your life. It’s actually very easy.

[Anonymous]

Actually I think there’s a big trend that university is unnecessary to succeed.

[Anonymous]

My kids attend an AAP center in McLean. They play sports and have good friends. They are not the best at anything and they are thriving. I am sure we are probably in what you consider a pressure cooker environment but it feels normal to us.

We are an Asian American family and I don’t feel my kids study all that much, especially compared to my family in Asia. My kids have quiet the leisurely life.

I do not put insane pressure on them. I expect good grades and effort. Their effort is quite minimal. They do their homework, study a little for tests and that is it.

[Anonymous]

*quite

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids attend an AAP center in McLean. They play sports and have good friends. They are not the best at anything and they are thriving. I am sure we are probably in what you consider a pressure cooker environment but it feels normal to us.

We are an Asian American family and I don’t feel my kids study all that much, especially compared to my family in Asia. My kids have quiet the leisurely life.

I do not put insane pressure on them. I expect good grades and effort. Their effort is quite minimal. They do their homework, study a little for tests and that is it.

+1 eastern european immigrant here... the kids here have it very easy. You want a pressure cooker? Try 13-14 mandatory subjects plus a competitive sport. This kind of childhood actually taught me that you cannot be the best at everything or even one thing all the time, and I came out resilient and non-plussed when I inevitably came second, third, or dead last. Kids who are coddled and protected from loss, defeat, and hard work, end up with all kinds of mental issues down the line. The key is that you have to NORMALIZE failure at home. You fell? Great, dust off, get back on the horse. The first step to being good at something is being terrible at it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents are so involved with their kids nowadays, it’s insane. My mom had no idea who my friends were and frankly, didn’t care. She would get home from work and make dinner while smoking a cigarette and gossiping on the phone with my aunt. I played sports but didn’t do anything competitively until I was in middle school and then I had to pick one sport because we couldn’t afford more than that. The only books we had in the house were by Danielle Steel. My parents and I lived on different planets, and that was just fine. I went to college, I have a good job, and my parents and I have a good relationship. Now there’s all this pressure. People taking constant photos of their kids, scheduling their days and packing them full of classes.There’s also fear permeating everything. The kids can’t go outside by themselves, parents are calling teachers to check in on schoolwork, nobody can afford to make mistakes. No wonder these kids are so anxious.

It’s a different world. In some ways, our kids have it better. At the same time, I grieve for the fact that they won’t have as carefree a childhood.

This is an exaggeration. My kids go to public school and they do a few classes (our sons play tennis 2x a week and do TKD another day, daughters do dance and tumbling 2x a week). Otherwise, they play in the neighbored with friends. It’s the kind of place where we tell them to come back at dark and know they will be safe. There are lots of kids their ages who live in the neighborhood and we know their parents. We text back and forth to keep track of who is where.

Wrt your post, we do keep track of school work, we do family photos with a prof photographer once a year, and I take photos on our vacations. But it’s still a normal, carefree childhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parents are so involved with their kids nowadays, it’s insane. My mom had no idea who my friends were and frankly, didn’t care. She would get home from work and make dinner while smoking a cigarette and gossiping on the phone with my aunt. I played sports but didn’t do anything competitively until I was in middle school and then I had to pick one sport because we couldn’t afford more than that. The only books we had in the house were by Danielle Steel. My parents and I lived on different planets, and that was just fine. I went to college, I have a good job, and my parents and I have a good relationship. Now there’s all this pressure. People taking constant photos of their kids, scheduling their days and packing them full of classes.There’s also fear permeating everything. The kids can’t go outside by themselves, parents are calling teachers to check in on schoolwork, nobody can afford to make mistakes. No wonder these kids are so anxious.

This. Independence and responsibility was forced on us at a young age. High school was considered adulthood. And when you got your license, home pretty much became a place to sleep between school, work, sports, other extra-curriculars, and partying. No one woke us up or told us what time to go to bed. The only thing we got was “don’t f-up”.