Thrivers (book), raising kids in a pressure cooker area

[Anonymous]

And it just starts younger. When I was growing up, We started to worry about colleges in high school. In FCPS, you have parents fretting about their kids school career in second grade because of AAP. It’s hard not to get caught up in it. And I ventured into the college forum and oh my, the expectations for kids have gotten insane. I hope there’s some push back against these colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone read this book? It was recommended to me and some many of the descriptions of the kids remind me of kids in the DMV area. Just reading DCUM is exhausting as a parent. The expectations on kids to be perfect at every turn. Being good enough is no longer enough. The kid must be in GT/AAP, excel in EC, start sports at a young age, take tons of APs. In a highly rated public or private school, not some mediocre school! And even with all of that, college admissions are crazy hard. There was a much bigger margin of error when I was growing up. Perfection was not an expectation. According to the book’s author, something has to give because kids are experiencing record levels of depression and anxiety. They have perfect applications and resumes but are miserable and can’t function in the real world. And it’s a fine line in this area between encouraging your kids to do well and being an overbearing parent who pushes a kid too hard. Thoughts? Have you seen this? How do you handle it as a parent?

This is why I'm moving out of the Wootton district. My kid is just fine at school and activities, but he's not great. He's not high achieving. He's well rounded and average in many things. And living in this culture is doing a number on him. So I'm looking for something more reflective of regular American life. He will do fine in life with a career, etc. It just might take him a bit longer to get there. But I need his mental health to be solid.

Thanks for brining the book to my attention. I will check it out.

+1. Left Wootton for the same reason. Found that there was too much of a difference between our notion of childhood (and our parenting style) and our neighbors from Russia, Taiwan, South Korea, South Asia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The parents here excelled as kids and while in college so why is it a surprise to find the best and brightest raising their kids to be the best and brightest.

The author argues that because you don’t need to create this pressure cooker environment to raise the “best and brightest.”

Yeah, as someone raised in the DMV, now raising my kids in a smaller, way more laid back area, the idea that you all are the arbiters of “best and brightest” is laughable to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The parents here excelled as kids and while in college so why is it a surprise to find the best and brightest raising their kids to be the best and brightest.

Not always - more often than not, parents are over compensating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The parents here excelled as kids and while in college so why is it a surprise to find the best and brightest raising their kids to be the best and brightest.

The author argues that because you don’t need to create this pressure cooker environment to raise the “best and brightest.”

Yeah, as someone raised in the DMV, now raising my kids in a smaller, way more laid back area, the idea that you all are the arbiters of “best and brightest” is laughable to me.

+1

Smug and bright are very different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The parents here excelled as kids and while in college so why is it a surprise to find the best and brightest raising their kids to be the best and brightest.

The author argues that because you don’t need to create this pressure cooker environment to raise the “best and brightest.”

+1

Any good parent should know this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parents are living their dream through their kids, and it will always backfire.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The parents here excelled as kids and while in college so why is it a surprise to find the best and brightest raising their kids to be the best and brightest.

The author argues that because you don’t need to create this pressure cooker environment to raise the “best and brightest.”

Yeah, as someone raised in the DMV, now raising my kids in a smaller, way more laid back area, the idea that you all are the arbiters of “best and brightest” is laughable to me.

+1

Smug and bright are very different.

Try convincing some of the parents on this forum. I have to take a break from the AAP and FCPS forums.

[Anonymous]

To what extent do you think that laid back parents can raise laid back kids in this regard, even when surrounded by pressure-cooker families? DH and I are pretty non-competitive when it comes to work and school. We both have jobs that are intellectually stimulating, we read a lot, have academic and social interests, but couldn't care less if our kids are at the top of their class/make the competitive sports team/ etc. I like to think we can raise kids who don't feel the need to keep up with their peers in some of the ways being discussed here, but they're still young and so I don't know if we're being totally naive.

[Anonymous]

There is the notion of wealth insecurity that plays a role. I raised my kids to speak 3 languages because I believe it will give them more opportunities later in life.

I do not think being middling at ballet will do much for them, although it was my dream to be a ballerina as a child and I never had lessons. If kids start a hobby our rule is that they have to do it for a year, and then they decide to continue or stop.

They all get good grades but seem to love socializing more than anything else. All fine and good if create lives they find fulfilling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To what extent do you think that laid back parents can raise laid back kids in this regard, even when surrounded by pressure-cooker families? DH and I are pretty non-competitive when it comes to work and school. We both have jobs that are intellectually stimulating, we read a lot, have academic and social interests, but couldn't care less if our kids are at the top of their class/make the competitive sports team/ etc. I like to think we can raise kids who don't feel the need to keep up with their peers in some of the ways being discussed here, but they're still young and so I don't know if we're being totally naive.

I’m the OP. It’s part of why I posted it. My DH and I are the same. We have graduate degrees, we instilled a love of reading in our kids, but we aren’t crazy competitive. By not pushing our kids, are we short changing them? My gut tells me my kids will be ok but it’s hard to not buy into the craziness of this area. The book describes how damaging this competition can be to kids. Kids feel like they never measure up even when they are excelling. They feel like they can’t mistakes. It all feels soul crushing. I want my kids to do well but not at the expense of their happiness. Not so I can brag about it on an anonymous forum. I think some parents are starting to question this system when kids with 4.3 and insane amount of ECs are being rejected left and right from colleges. Enough is enough. Kids can succeed in life and still have a childhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is the notion of wealth insecurity that plays a role. I raised my kids to speak 3 languages because I believe it will give them more opportunities later in life.

I do not think being middling at ballet will do much for them, although it was my dream to be a ballerina as a child and I never had lessons. If kids start a hobby our rule is that they have to do it for a year, and then they decide to continue or stop.

They all get good grades but seem to love socializing more than anything else. All fine and good if create lives they find fulfilling.

I definitely think wealth insecurity plays a huge role. This has been studied. UMC parents are scared of “slipping down” the economic ladder. There’s been articles, books on resource hoarding.

[Anonymous]

Ever since we left the DMV, our teens are thriving. They are happier (even in a pandemic), getting straight As all year, and have more confidence in their step.

Looking back, school in the DMV beat them down until they had no confidence anymore. They tried and tried and tried and got good grades, but were treated as if a "4" or an "A" on a unit test was expected rather than an accomplishment. No teacher ever said, "great job!" only "you missed two, try harder." That gets tiring for anyone.

The kicker for me was when my high school student sat through a two-hour end-of-year awards ceremony were the same ten kids got all the awards (funny how they were the kids of parents who were friends of the teachers?) and then the principal said at the end: "We don't have time to get to the other students who did well this year, so we'll just run their names on the big screen." Then they scrolled their names past faster than the closing credits of a movie on TNT.

My teen texted me and said: Why am I even here? What a waste of our time. Good question.

DMV schools demoralize the good students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is the notion of wealth insecurity that plays a role. I raised my kids to speak 3 languages because I believe it will give them more opportunities later in life.

I do not think being middling at ballet will do much for them, although it was my dream to be a ballerina as a child and I never had lessons. If kids start a hobby our rule is that they have to do it for a year, and then they decide to continue or stop.

They all get good grades but seem to love socializing more than anything else. All fine and good if create lives they find fulfilling.

I definitely think wealth insecurity plays a huge role. This has been studied. UMC parents are scared of “slipping down” the economic ladder. There’s been articles, books on resource hoarding.

+1. I notice how nobody tries to sell me MLM products since we left the DMV. Every mom I knew there had a side hustle even if she was already working full time. They fronted well as "I'm a mom boss" but the message I got was "the DMV is bleeding us dry financially so that's why I'm hawking essential oils". I was a SAHM and then a part-time WOHM, and every working mom in my neighborhood treated me disrespectfully but wasn't shy about hitting me up for free childcare ALL THE TIME. Another one was hearing a knock at the door to find a neighbor mom asking to "borrow" food items -- an onion, a cup of sugar, etc. like I was their grocery store. "I didn't feel like running to the store and fighting the traffic, so I thought I'd ask you." I sometimes wondered if there was food insecurity behind the Michael Kors purse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To what extent do you think that laid back parents can raise laid back kids in this regard, even when surrounded by pressure-cooker families? DH and I are pretty non-competitive when it comes to work and school. We both have jobs that are intellectually stimulating, we read a lot, have academic and social interests, but couldn't care less if our kids are at the top of their class/make the competitive sports team/ etc. I like to think we can raise kids who don't feel the need to keep up with their peers in some of the ways being discussed here, but they're still young and so I don't know if we're being totally naive.

I think you can but you have to be intentional about it, recognize that - especially once in middle and high school -- they will be getting all these competition messages from school/peers so you need to talk about that and reinforce that it is ok to go against the flow.

DH and I are both pretty laid back people but I think could have easily fallen into the go-go ECs mindset prevalent in the area but our kids are very strong willed and from an early age insisted on doing things their way.

DD was the only little girl who didn't do soccer or t-ball or dance or any of the standard little-kid activities. She went to two dance classes at 3 years old and then refused to go again. She just wanted to play outside or do art so we followed her interests, went hiking a lot, signed her up for art classes. Eventually she asked to do a sport and did fencing for a while but again no interest in doing it at an intense level, much to her coach's disappointment. As a teen she's still mainly interested in hiking, nature-related volunteer work, and art. But, she doesn't want to do art at school where it will become an obligation rather than a relaxing hobby.

She was always a top student and we never pushed, were fine with her approach to ECs, are happy for her to go to any college that fits her interests and ambitions (which will not be T20-type schools). Still, she had a massive melt down early this year about the pressure to get into a top school, to get all As in a bunch of AP classes, worrying that she's falling behind because she's getting a B in a 10th grade AP class. I realized that while we are not putting that pressure on her it is endemic in her high school. So we had to talk about the ridiculous expectations people put on kids, that you can get into a good college without doing all this stuff and that even those who practically kill themselves doing all of it are still a long shot for those tippy-top ranked schools. We encouraged her to pick APs for 11th just for the subjects she loves and buck the expectation of her peers that you take 4+ APs in junior year. She seems to be feeling better but we continue to talk about it.

DS also took his own path with ECs, preferring to spend time on a couple things at a hobby level, refusing any competitive engagement with them. He still had plenty to talk about in college essays and is happily going to Virginia Tech in the Fall. He had excellent grades and a bunch of AP classes but only in subjects of interest and never even took an honors-level science class because those required a science project and he hates doing science projects.

I just started reading this book and it seems like we did do a lot of what they suggest to nurture self-confidence (that's the first chapter)... Notice what actually interests your kids and nurture that, don't emphasize competition, provide space to focus on one thing.