Thrivers (book), raising kids in a pressure cooker area

[Anonymous]

While I do think some blame belongs with the parents, and we work hard to keep these insane expectations away from our kid, I do think there's another factor here, and that's the way the US economy has evolved in the last 40 years or so. The middle class is disappearing - we've moved more to a haves/have nots world - knowledge workers who make 6 figures, vs service employees who are lucky to get $15 an hour. And I think that creates a fear in parents - if your kid doesn't get solidly placed into the "haves" - things get scary. There's no more factory jobs for mediocre folks that pay enough to support a family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:While I do think some blame belongs with the parents, and we work hard to keep these insane expectations away from our kid, I do think there's another factor here, and that's the way the US economy has evolved in the last 40 years or so. The middle class is disappearing - we've moved more to a haves/have nots world - knowledge workers who make 6 figures, vs service employees who are lucky to get $15 an hour. And I think that creates a fear in parents - if your kid doesn't get solidly placed into the "haves" - things get scary. There's no more factory jobs for mediocre folks that pay enough to support a family.

This is the fear. World is changed and you do not want kids to be have nots. Everything is more competitive to get a job/career that can provide a level of security. An insecure life existence is much more stressful than having to study hard as a young student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:While I do think some blame belongs with the parents, and we work hard to keep these insane expectations away from our kid, I do think there's another factor here, and that's the way the US economy has evolved in the last 40 years or so. The middle class is disappearing - we've moved more to a haves/have nots world - knowledge workers who make 6 figures, vs service employees who are lucky to get $15 an hour. And I think that creates a fear in parents - if your kid doesn't get solidly placed into the "haves" - things get scary. There's no more factory jobs for mediocre folks that pay enough to support a family.

No doubt about it. But you don’t need a Top 20 college degree to do it. I think the gap will only widen. But I don’t think having having perfect application guarantees future success. And going to an ok college doesn’t mean someone won’t succeed financially. Quite the contrary. I think this generation is staring to question this but parents are lagging behind. I also fault colleges and their insane expectations.

[Anonymous]

100% you don’t have to live like this. DCUM is not reality and it certainly doesn’t have to be your reality. Just say no.

I have seen this for years on DCUM where people bemoan the competitiveness or whatever of the area but it’s completely up to you if you want to play that game or not.

My kid did dabbled in various activities growing up— soccer, an instrument, martial arts, etc. It was never more than a couple hours a week by mutual choice. He found some ECs he liked in HS— none of which he had done before HS. Got into his first choice college for whatever that is worth.

Live how you want to live and don’t worry about how other people are living, and certainly don’t let DCUM make you feel inadequate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:While I do think some blame belongs with the parents, and we work hard to keep these insane expectations away from our kid, I do think there's another factor here, and that's the way the US economy has evolved in the last 40 years or so. The middle class is disappearing - we've moved more to a haves/have nots world - knowledge workers who make 6 figures, vs service employees who are lucky to get $15 an hour. And I think that creates a fear in parents - if your kid doesn't get solidly placed into the "haves" - things get scary. There's no more factory jobs for mediocre folks that pay enough to support a family.

I think this fear gets oversold though. Most millennials no longer want kids so who cares if you can support a family or not? You just have to be able to support yourself.

Even fewer Gen z kids will probably want kids, due to hideous changes wrt climate changes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you can do real low-key if you truly do not care about getting your kid into a top college (like it would be cool with you but you'd be absolutely cool with something else too) and are just really confident your kid will be just fine. I have not yet reached that stage.

I admit that there is a little parental ego in there, but there is also the realization that it does matter. Good colleges give you a leg up. It's a competitive world out there and at some point, my kids will have to compete. They're not going to have trust funds that set them up for life.

I'd like to not play the game, but I have seen others go ahead of me, and I see that it works for these kids whose parents have pushed them a lot with carefully crafted activities and academics. Parents wouldn't do it if it didn't work. This is the message that colleges are sending.

So like a lot of parents out there, I have taken the middle road, not dropping out of the game, but giving a lot of thought as to when to push, what routes to take and when to say "no, that's insane, I'm not pushing my kid to do that in second grade."

I wish it could be like I was a kid and we really didn't think about college until HS, and it was still fine. I got into a top college. In the end, students today are no smarter, more ready for the world than they were 20 years ago despite all the "accomplishments". But it's hard to push back against societal forces on your own.

I think outside of maybe Wall Street, where you go for undergrad really does not matter. At all. Go look at the college forum. Lots of kids and parents who “played the game” got royally burned this year.

True, but kids who didn't "play the game" or who struggled got even more burned. A lot of what is driving this is fear, like someone else pointed out, of kids falling into a "have not" group, because there is not much of a safety net in society.

[Anonymous]

Here's what I've never been able to understand, I know this isn't new, but what on earth do sports and extra curriculars have anything to do with how good of a student you and have any bearing on a chance of getting into a good school? If you ask me that's part of the problem and a huge racket.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you can widen your perspective as to what is a "good" college. I think if you are a parent who went to a highly ranked school (which you probably wouldn't have gotten into today) it can be harder to accept that lots of colleges can lead to a solid career and a happy life but that is the reality. Give yourself some credit that your success was not about you than your specific college.

DH and I both went to regional public universities and have done well. I had to turn down big name schools because of the cost. Now I see that HS classmates who went to those seem to be doing about the same. I also see that my work peers went to a wide range of colleges. My kids will be fine.

This.
I got an engineering degree and master’s from VT. My DH went to a small private and got a degree in computer science. We are doing quite well for ourselves. Not everyone has to go to an Ivy to be successful in life, but that really seems to be a pervasive attitude with some of the parents we’ve met here. We are both late gen-Xers with parents who were involved and encouraging, but definitely not pushy.
Both of us are from small-town areas, and we are very concerned with the level of competitiveness we see in the school systems in this area. Our kids aren’t old enough for this to be an issue yet, but we are getting there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's what I've never been able to understand, I know this isn't new, but what on earth do sports and extra curriculars have anything to do with how good of a student you and have any bearing on a chance of getting into a good school? If you ask me that's part of the problem and a huge racket.

This is very much an American thing. Every else, it’s based on grades and entrance exams. I think it was sold as part of being well rounded. Except now, kids don’t join just stuff that interests them, they join things that look good. Oh and you can’t just be part of the team. You have to be the captain, founder, or President of something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While I do think some blame belongs with the parents, and we work hard to keep these insane expectations away from our kid, I do think there's another factor here, and that's the way the US economy has evolved in the last 40 years or so. The middle class is disappearing - we've moved more to a haves/have nots world - knowledge workers who make 6 figures, vs service employees who are lucky to get $15 an hour. And I think that creates a fear in parents - if your kid doesn't get solidly placed into the "haves" - things get scary. There's no more factory jobs for mediocre folks that pay enough to support a family.

I think this fear gets oversold though. Most millennials no longer want kids so who cares if you can support a family or not? You just have to be able to support yourself.

Even fewer Gen z kids will probably want kids, due to hideous changes wrt climate changes.

And they are graduating with tons of debt and working right along side kids who went to “ok” schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the reason I send my kids to private school. The dial is turned way, way down from where it was for me (I’m a millennial) while still being excellent quality and having plenty of great college admissions.

Lolol

Your second statement contradicts the first. You’re just as bad as any other deluded Bethesda or McLean public school parent.

No, you don’t get it. Private school kids don’t have to strive as hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you can widen your perspective as to what is a "good" college. I think if you are a parent who went to a highly ranked school (which you probably wouldn't have gotten into today) it can be harder to accept that lots of colleges can lead to a solid career and a happy life but that is the reality. Give yourself some credit that your success was not about you than your specific college.

DH and I both went to regional public universities and have done well. I had to turn down big name schools because of the cost. Now I see that HS classmates who went to those seem to be doing about the same. I also see that my work peers went to a wide range of colleges. My kids will be fine.

This.
I got an engineering degree and master’s from VT. My DH went to a small private and got a degree in computer science. We are doing quite well for ourselves. Not everyone has to go to an Ivy to be successful in life, but that really seems to be a pervasive attitude with some of the parents we’ve met here. We are both late gen-Xers with parents who were involved and encouraging, but definitely not pushy.
Both of us are from small-town areas, and we are very concerned with the level of competitiveness we see in the school systems in this area. Our kids aren’t old enough for this to be an issue yet, but we are getting there.

I promised myself I wouldn’t get caught up in it but you are right, it is hard. And it starts early. The whole AAP is crazy stupid and demoralizing for most involved. My kid in an AAP class knew in third grade (not from us by the way), that the expectations were higher for the “advanced kids.” I fretted over my other kid “only” being in advanced math but gen ed. And for what? Kids absorb this from a young age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's what I've never been able to understand, I know this isn't new, but what on earth do sports and extra curriculars have anything to do with how good of a student you and have any bearing on a chance of getting into a good school? If you ask me that's part of the problem and a huge racket.

This is very much an American thing. Every else, it’s based on grades and entrance exams. I think it was sold as part of being well rounded. Except now, kids don’t join just stuff that interests them, they join things that look good. Oh and you can’t just be part of the team. You have to be the captain, founder, or President of something.

Yeah, or it's justified as colleges building a community of interesting people who are musicians, athletes, writers, dancers, what have you -- not robotic people who do nothing but study (which, if you ask me, covers a lot of anti-Asian bias). I think that if you didn't consider ECs and sports, you'd probably get more interesting kids! You'd have kids who felt free to explore their interests outside of class without thinking about whether it looks good on a college application. Everywhere kids are in school, you're going to have clubs and orchestras and sports terms. Are you going to have better quality ones because you considered kids who won prizes for violin playing or soccer? Yeah, probably, but I really don't think that should matter. They're extracurricular - extra!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you can do real low-key if you truly do not care about getting your kid into a top college (like it would be cool with you but you'd be absolutely cool with something else too) and are just really confident your kid will be just fine. I have not yet reached that stage.

I admit that there is a little parental ego in there, but there is also the realization that it does matter. Good colleges give you a leg up. It's a competitive world out there and at some point, my kids will have to compete. They're not going to have trust funds that set them up for life.

I'd like to not play the game, but I have seen others go ahead of me, and I see that it works for these kids whose parents have pushed them a lot with carefully crafted activities and academics. Parents wouldn't do it if it didn't work. This is the message that colleges are sending.

So like a lot of parents out there, I have taken the middle road, not dropping out of the game, but giving a lot of thought as to when to push, what routes to take and when to say "no, that's insane, I'm not pushing my kid to do that in second grade."

I wish it could be like I was a kid and we really didn't think about college until HS, and it was still fine. I got into a top college. In the end, students today are no smarter, more ready for the world than they were 20 years ago despite all the "accomplishments". But it's hard to push back against societal forces on your own.

It is true that you can't be low key if you don't care if your kid doesn't go to a T20 school. But why in the name of all that is holy should you care if your kid goes to a T20 school? Of course you should be PROUD of a kid who wants that for themselves and is a driven type who does all the things to go to that kind of school. But there is no reason you should think it is important to a child's happiness and success as an adult that they go to a T20 school. I think I really understood that when I married my DH, who went to his state school, which was totally non-competitive to get in. And look at us - we ended up in the same place, married to each other. He is smart, successful, and happy. That is what I want for my kids, and the route I took (fancy school) isn't the only path. Really, it isn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you can widen your perspective as to what is a "good" college. I think if you are a parent who went to a highly ranked school (which you probably wouldn't have gotten into today) it can be harder to accept that lots of colleges can lead to a solid career and a happy life but that is the reality. Give yourself some credit that your success was not about you than your specific college.

DH and I both went to regional public universities and have done well. I had to turn down big name schools because of the cost. Now I see that HS classmates who went to those seem to be doing about the same. I also see that my work peers went to a wide range of colleges. My kids will be fine.

Totally agree with this. I went to an ivy league, but followed my passions into a city government job where I've been since 2007. I love it. I'm surrounded by colleagues with a variety of educational paths, including other "top" colleges, city and state schools, etc. We have a passion for the work in common and there is probably a correlation between the top college graduates and success within the bureaucracy of city gov, but I wouldn't credit the college on their resume, per se, with that correlation. I think I would have ended up at the same place with the same salary if I'd gone to any number of lower tier and less expensive schools. I want to make that clear to my kids!